Dragon Age II, Part 2: The Qun is pretty deep, you wouldn't understand it.

[Joran]

No. Jade Empire was a huge disappointment and Neverwinter Nights was simply garbage. And Dragon Age was seriously lacking in a plot, which was mostly compensated by the interesting side-storylines.

My main hesitation with DA2 is again, the apparent lack of a plot. Also the game apparently having only three maps also does not sound very convincing.

My major complaint with Jade Empire was the combat system, which was ridiculously easy to abuse. I really liked the setting; I wish there was a Jade Empire 2.

For DA2, yes, your hesitation is a good one. There is not much of an over-arching plot, no driving factor in Dragon Age 2. In other Bioware games, there is a main plot, like vanquishing the Arch-Demon in Dragon Age 1.

There is a slight over-arching plot, but instead most of the quests are side quests for companions or other actors in the city. When I played through Dragon Age 2, I had a hard time coming up with why my character was doing what she was doing, since there was no end goal in mind.

[Dienekes]

No. Jade Empire was a huge disappointment and Neverwinter Nights was simply garbage. And Dragon Age was seriously lacking in a plot, which was mostly compensated by the interesting side-storylines.

My main hesitation with DA2 is again, the apparent lack of a plot. Also the game apparently having only three maps also does not sound very convincing.

If you want a strong centralized plot look elsewhere. The entire plot of DA2 is "one admittedly awesome guy/gal lives in troubling times and makes do with what he/she has."

Now each of the three acts have a central storyline, the middle one being in my opinion the best, but if you want to follow a specific plot this is not the game for you.

That said, like DAO the side-quests and act arcs do have great stories in them. Unfortunately the game feels rushed at some points, especially when it comes to map and encounter design. Which is pretty disappointing because in my opinion the combat mechanics improved from DAO, yet the fights are designed to be sadly repetitive.

As for companions (a big part of every Bioware game), they're alright. I preferred DAO's characters personally. I know some people find Merril cute for some reason, but personally I'd switch any of the characters in this game (with the possible exception of Varric) for Sten, Wynne, Leliana, Shale, and Alistair.

[Giggling Ghast]

The biggest difference, story-wise, between Dragon Age: Origins and Dragon Age 2 is the lack of an over-arching goal. In Origins, everything you did was in service of ending the Blight and defeating the Archdemon.

In DA2, Hawke has no end goal. He's simply a man trying to make his way in Kirkwall who gets pulled into major events that ultimately impact the rest of the continent. His presence is crucial to the storyline and his decisions have an impact on how it unfolds, but there are many events that transpire regardless of his involvement.

Origins was also more compartmentalized into story arcs. When you embarked on one of the treaty quests, you more or less stayed on that quest until it resolved. You might return to the Brecilian Forest or the Circle Tower later on, but only to resolve some minor sidequest.

DA2 is more about following multiple plot threads that carry on throughout the game. Take Aveline, for instance. In Act 1, you help her become Captain of the City Guard by exposing the criminal activities of her predecessor. In Act 2, you assist her in marrying a guard who you met previously during the Act 1 quest. Finally, in Act 3, an old enemy tries to take revenge on Aveline and her husband. In between those quests, you do a lot of other stuff.

The recycling of environments is bad in DA2, but it's not as bad as having only "three maps" to explore.

[Joran]

As for companions (a big part of every Bioware game), they're alright. I preferred DAO's characters personally. I know some people find Merril cute for some reason, but personally I'd switch any of the characters in this game (with the possible exception of Varric) for Sten, Wynne, Leliana, Shale, and Alistair.

Hmm... Let's see. Breakdown of companions within:

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Alistair vs. Justice vs. Aveline: I'd go with Aveline, I liked her story and there are few enough good strong female characters. Alistair is a strong second. Maihri, RIP.

Zevran vs. Sigrun vs. Isabela: I give it to Sigrun, I like the nerdbait characters, though Zevran over Isabela. I did not have much interaction with Isabela outside of just flirting with her, so it's kind of unfair.

Leliana vs. Nathaniel vs. Varric: I romanced Leliana, played her DLC, so it's pretty unfair. If I could take both Leliana and Varric, I would.

Morrigan vs. Velanna vs. Merrill: Actually, despite Merrill being nerdbait and my romance, I liked Morrigan more, even if she did leave me at the end, the ungrateful... [rude name].

Wynne vs. Anders vs. Anders: Anders! It's unfair, he's in both lists! Okay, honestly, I liked Awakening Anders a lot. Dragon Age II Anders is interesting, but he lost that joy and light-heartedness I liked in Awakening.

Oghren vs. Oghren vs. Fenris: Fenris, I did not actually like Oghren, so Fenris by default.

Sten vs. Carver: Sten, Carver was too whiny.

Shale vs. Bethany: Shale was my favorite companion in DA:O so no contest.

So: 4 for DA:O, 2 for DA2, and 2 for Awakening. Not what I expected at all.

[Giggling Ghast]

You're better off comparing Fenris to Sten than Carver, as they share a lot of similarities. Fenris is more versatile as a fighter, however, and generally more likeable as a party member. (I never cared for Sten, though I developed a grudging respect for him.)

[Joran]

You're better off comparing Fenris to Sten than Carver, as they share a lot of similarities. Fenris is more versatile as a fighter, however, and generally more likeable as a party member. (I never cared for Sten, though I developed a grudging respect for him.)

I always thought Sten was kind of overrated. I never had him in my party though, and he kept disapproving of my actions, so I never got along with him.

Fenris always seemed like he had a wry sense of humor and I appreciated his bluntness.

Merrill: Pol... What was he thinking? ... He acted like I was a monster...
Fenris: You are a monster.
Isabela: You aren't helping
Fenris: Good.

[Arbitrarity]

I always thought Sten was kind of overrated. I never had him in my party though, and he kept disapproving of my actions, so I never got along with him.

Fenris always seemed like he had a wry sense of humor and I appreciated his bluntness.

Merrill: Pol... What was he thinking? ... He acted like I was a monster...
Fenris: You are a monster.
Isabela: You aren't helping
Fenris: Good.

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Sten/Dialogue
Highlights

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Leliana: I saw what you were doing back there.
Sten: Oh?
Leliana: Don't play innocent with me.
Sten: What are you talking about?
Leliana: You. Playing with that kitten.
Sten: ...There was no kitten.
Leliana: Sten, I saw you. You dangling a piece of twine for it.
Sten: I was helping it train.
Leliana: You're a big softie!
Sten: We will never speak of this again.
Leliana: Softie!

Alistair: Were you really in that cage for twenty days?
Sten: It might have been closer to thirty. I stopped counting after a while.
Alistair: What did you do? I mean... twenty days is a long time to sit in one place and do nothing.
Sten: On good days, I posed riddles to the passersby, offering them treasures in exchange for correct answers.
Alistair: Really?
Sten: No.
Alistair: Awww. Too bad. That's got serious potential.

Wynne: Are all Qunari as quiet as you are?
Sten: Are all mages as chatty as you?
Wynne: ... That's fair.

Morrigan: You seem so deep in thought, my dear Sten. Thinking of me, perhaps? The two of us, together at last?
Sten: Yes.
Morrigan: I... what did you say?
Sten: You will need armor, I think. And a helmet. And something to bite down on. How strong are human teeth?
Morrigan: How strong are my teeth?
Sten: Qunari teeth can bite through leather, wood, even metal given time. Which reminds me, I may try to nuzzle.
Morrigan: Nuzzle?
Sten: If that happens, you'll need an iron pry bar. Heat it in a fire, first, or it may not get my attention.
Morrigan: Perhaps it would be better if we did not proceed.
Sten: Are you certain? If it will satisfy your curiosity...
Morrigan: Yes. Yes, I think it is best.

Shale: I wish to say that it has been pleasant fighting at the Qunari's side.
Sten: I feel the same. You are a remarkable construct, kadan. A warrior to be feared.
Shale: No more than the Qunari, surely. The way it strikes down its foes, marvelous!
Sten: I smile each time you roar a battle cry, knowing our foes tremble.
Shale: I could watch you fight all day long--the skill you display, the form, how the light plays on its muscles... I mean... yes. Well done. With the fighting.
Sten: You, as well.
Shale: Right.

Dog: (Dog peers up at Sten, tail wagging)
Sten: We don't have time for this now.
Dog: (Dog continues peering, a little more determined)
Sten: No, absolutely not.
Dog: (Whines)
Sten: There is no time. We have work to do.
Dog: (Whines)
Sten: (Sigh) ... Fine. Bring me the stick. But this is the last time, I swear it.
Dog: (Happy Bark!)

[ZeroNumerous]

Individually, I have to agree that DA:O's characters are stronger than DA2's. However, no combo of characters can top the Varric-Isabela-Fenris-Sarcastic Hawke snark-off. It's almost like everyone in your party takes turns making fun of everyone else--and each other--in Thedas. I think DA2's characters are a better cohesive unit than DA:Os. They definitely feel like a group of people who knew one another for several years, and nothing really tops that kind of interaction.

[Delusion]

Individually, I have to agree that DA:O's characters are stronger than DA2's. However, no combo of characters can top the Varric-Isabela-Fenris-Sarcastic Hawke snark-off. It's almost like everyone in your party takes turns making fun of everyone else--and each other--in Thedas. I think DA2's characters are a better cohesive unit than DA:Os. They definitely feel like a group of people who knew one another for several years, and nothing really tops that kind of interaction.

This. In DA2 it felt more like the companions have relationships with eachother rather than just with the PC. I think its all in the little things like Varric helping Fenris dealing with Tax authorities. Or Merril's clueless banter with anyone.

[ShinyRocks]

Some of the Aveline–Isabela dialogue is priceless.

If you take them both into the Blooming Rose (is that the name? The brothel?)

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Isabela: The only difference between a whore and a courtesan is courtesans get nicer shoes.

Aveline: I think your shoes are fine.

I have my issues with DA2 plot-wise, but I think the team-mates are great. Aveline in particular is one of my favourite video-game characters for a long time.

[Yora]

Thanks for all the replies, but I think I'm not really exited about playing the game. It all sounds "okay", but not enough to really get to want me to play it.

[Joran]

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Sten/Dialogue
Highlights

Spoiler

Show

Leliana: I saw what you were doing back there.
Sten: Oh?
Leliana: Don't play innocent with me.
Sten: What are you talking about?
Leliana: You. Playing with that kitten.
Sten: ...There was no kitten.
Leliana: Sten, I saw you. You dangling a piece of twine for it.
Sten: I was helping it train.
Leliana: You're a big softie!
Sten: We will never speak of this again.
Leliana: Softie!

Alistair: Were you really in that cage for twenty days?
Sten: It might have been closer to thirty. I stopped counting after a while.
Alistair: What did you do? I mean... twenty days is a long time to sit in one place and do nothing.
Sten: On good days, I posed riddles to the passersby, offering them treasures in exchange for correct answers.
Alistair: Really?
Sten: No.
Alistair: Awww. Too bad. That's got serious potential.

Wynne: Are all Qunari as quiet as you are?
Sten: Are all mages as chatty as you?
Wynne: ... That's fair.

Morrigan: You seem so deep in thought, my dear Sten. Thinking of me, perhaps? The two of us, together at last?
Sten: Yes.
Morrigan: I... what did you say?
Sten: You will need armor, I think. And a helmet. And something to bite down on. How strong are human teeth?
Morrigan: How strong are my teeth?
Sten: Qunari teeth can bite through leather, wood, even metal given time. Which reminds me, I may try to nuzzle.
Morrigan: Nuzzle?
Sten: If that happens, you'll need an iron pry bar. Heat it in a fire, first, or it may not get my attention.
Morrigan: Perhaps it would be better if we did not proceed.
Sten: Are you certain? If it will satisfy your curiosity...
Morrigan: Yes. Yes, I think it is best.

Shale: I wish to say that it has been pleasant fighting at the Qunari's side.
Sten: I feel the same. You are a remarkable construct, kadan. A warrior to be feared.
Shale: No more than the Qunari, surely. The way it strikes down its foes, marvelous!
Sten: I smile each time you roar a battle cry, knowing our foes tremble.
Shale: I could watch you fight all day long--the skill you display, the form, how the light plays on its muscles... I mean... yes. Well done. With the fighting.
Sten: You, as well.
Shale: Right.

Dog: (Dog peers up at Sten, tail wagging)
Sten: We don't have time for this now.
Dog: (Dog continues peering, a little more determined)
Sten: No, absolutely not.
Dog: (Whines)
Sten: There is no time. We have work to do.
Dog: (Whines)
Sten: (Sigh) ... Fine. Bring me the stick. But this is the last time, I swear it.
Dog: (Happy Bark!)

Okay, clearly I did not have Sten in my group enough. That is some great stuff.

[Kish]

The qunari have a real way with words--it shows with both the sten in Dragon Age 1, and the arishok in Dragon Age 2.

Their culture is vile, but they have a real way with words.

[Joran]

The qunari have a real way with words--it shows with both the sten in Dragon Age 1, and the arishok in Dragon Age 2.

Their culture is vile, but they have a real way with words.

Dwarves are pretty good too. Shale, Sigrun, Oghren (/groan), and Varric.

[Giggling Ghast]

I had already heard most of Sten's zingers. My point stands. People give Morrigan guff over being completely evil, but they never give Sten crap for taking virtually the same stance 90 per cent of the time. Plus, Morrigan wasn't in jail for tearing apart a bunch of farmers with her bare hands.

In other DA-related news, it's rumoured the franchise is getting multiplayer.

[Zevox]

In other DA-related news, it's rumoured the franchise is getting multiplayer.

...you're kidding. That makes even less sense than Mass Effect getting multiplayer.

Zevox

[Joran]

...you're kidding. That makes even less sense than Mass Effect getting multiplayer.

Zevox

Mass Effect is multiplayer co-op, so it makes more sense... Unless there was a PVP component I missed. I'm trying to stay out of the ME3 thread so I don't get spoilers.

[Derthric]

...you're kidding. That makes even less sense than Mass Effect getting multiplayer.

Zevox

Amen. Unfortunately the bigger game companies see Multiplayer as the only basis of a games existence. How about investing those resources into 20 more hours of story? I'd buy that.

[Kish]

So...there's making something aimed at a market of "people to whom the name Dragon Age means games are worth buying who don't want another game like either existing Dragon Age game."

I think there's something just a little off in their reasoning. This could be anywhere from meaningless (they come out with something five people play, and then they come out with Dragon Age 3, which is a CRPG like 1 and 2) to really bad (if they make a hybrid arena/RPG thing, and address certain essential world plot points only in their hybrid thing).

[Yora]

I think they had many good ideas for DA2 and they just didn't work out as planned. Many of the things that I think sound really good about the game are also in Mass Effect 2, where I think the changes work very well.

I loved Baldur's Gate to death and think Dragon Age is a very good game, but games of this type seem too much like work for me with way to much minor things that keep me away from the central parts of the game.
I am very interested how Dragon Age 3 will turn out based on the knowledge of what worked great in DA1 and what was too much in DA2. A game that is unlike either of those, but rather takes the best parts of both would really be something I would like to see.

[Joran]

Amen. Unfortunately the bigger game companies see Multiplayer as the only basis of a games existence. How about investing those resources into 20 more hours of story? I'd buy that.

Unfortunately 20 hours of more story is much more work than doing multiplayer.

[Zevox]

Mass Effect is multiplayer co-op, so it makes more sense...

Precisely. This doesn't even have the little sense that co-op play in Mass Effect makes, thus makes even less sense.

I'm trying to stay out of the ME3 thread so I don't get spoilers.

There haven't been any so far that I've seen.

So...there's making something aimed at a market of "people to whom the name Dragon Age means games are worth buying who don't want another game like either existing Dragon Age game."

I think there's something just a little off in their reasoning.

Depends on whether it's going to be a separate game entirely or just an additional mode in DA3. The latter would be my first assumption, as the former really does make no sense in any way whatsoever.

Zevox

[Mx.Silver]

...you're kidding. That makes even less sense than Mass Effect getting multiplayer.

Well, Baldur's gate technically had multiplayer, so it's not entirely unprecedented. I don't know anyone who ever actually used it though (other than to make the entire party yourself), nor indeed why you'd want it in a game built around interactions with NPC party members and a storyline focus.

In all honesty though, I suspect this is a result of pressure from EA. As is probably the case with ME's multiplayer.

[Derthric]

Unfortunately 20 hours of more story is much more work than doing multiplayer.

Shush you, and your rational expectations of labor and productivity.

I am not opposed to multiplayer in games, I just think they should look at their audience. Bioware games are fun because of the immersion and story points. multiplayer traditionally lacks these. Address the weaknesses of the games, as IMHO ME2 did for ME1, and the games because hotly anticipated. I don't think Skyrim would have shipped more units with multiplayer, nor can I think of anyone who bought red dead redemption for the multiplayer.

I just get frustrated that the answer reached to to improve a games longevity/mass appeal, is to slap multiplayer on it.

I cannot wait for the day when EA's meddling breaks the back of most of the people at Bioware and they leave to make a new studio and turn out things they are traditionally associated with, only to become successful and be bought out again.

[Mukora]

In other DA-related news, it's rumoured the franchise is getting multiplayer.

"An inside source?"

Yeah, get an article with actual citations and maybe I'll believe it.

[Aux-Ash]

Hmmm... multiplayer? Colour me sceptical. Both to the idea and the authenticity of the rumour.

But hopefully it's still pretty early in production which increases the chance it's actually decent rather than tacked on at the end.

[Yora]

ME3 is getting multiplayer and apparently has as much to do with the main game as the multiplayer mode of half-life. (Except that half-life got massive modding.)

[Joran]

ME3 is getting multiplayer and apparently has as much to do with the main game as the multiplayer mode of half-life. (Except that half-life got massive modding.)

If I read correctly, ME3's multiplayer is co-op not PVP, so you aren't shooting at other players. You play with your friends and shoot the computer AI. Events in the ME3's multiplayer have effects on the single player campaign.

Basically, think of it like Portal 2's co-op.

P.S. Half-Life's multiplayer was atrocious, but it spawned counter-strike as well as Team Fortress Classic, so hey, it was all good.

[Yora]

Modern Warfares 2 player coop levels are supposed to be really good, so we might get suprised. But then, ME has a really simple gameplay and it would probably come down to a coop hallway fight.

[Mukora]

I dunno. Have you looked at some of the improvements they've made to the combat in ME3?