Dragon Age II, Part 2: The Qun is pretty deep, you wouldn't understand it.

[Maerok]

I just finished Dragon Age 2. This is probably the most emotionally invested I've been with any group of video game characters (offsetting Martin from Oblivion and the Vault 101 Dweller in Fallout 3). I was even yelling at the screen on some occasions. Never played DA1 but I might during December.

Especially:

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Bethany getting smashed right out the starting gate
Ketojan self-immolation I was hoping he'd join the party
At the end of All that Remains (see my avatar <===)
Rallying the party before the endgame (romanced Merrill)
Hawke walks away at the end with all the Templars backing off (sided with mages)

Feynriel's dream sequence was damn cool and Bioware has a lot of neat bits throughout its games. Isabela has an armor upgrade called 'rigid boning' . And I found a ring called Three Wolf Boon.

Has anyone used Merrill's blood mage powers effectively? I guess I wasn't investing points in the right areas since it was pretty much a quick death for her. I intended for Hawke to go Blood Mage but ended up playing as the Good Guy for once in a Bioware game. Ended up friends with everyone, except Fenris ended just short of it because I couldn't find enough ways to improve it in Act 3.

My standard party was Hawke as elementalist with Merrill/Anders/Aveline. I tried to play with as few hints as possible, except to do Forbidden Knowledge, complete the Overseer armor, and make sure I didn't miss parts of the Champion's armor.

Now is it me or does the AI just completely die out for spans of time? The melee characters tended to just sit around and Fenris was notorious for this so I never really used him. I did like the custom tactics and when everything was working it all felt organic which is maybe why I got so attached.

I'd like to play through it again, something I rarely do, as a templar-type. I feel like it'd be a completely different storyline and game altogether.

Also, the cutscenes in this game can be hilarious if you don't disable blood splatter.

One critique as far as DA and the storyline goes:

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I feel like it could have used a more dominate bad guy role. Maybe since all the big figures can be allies or enemies they have to be more moderate. The problem with demons is that at the end of the day saying 'a demon made them do it' dilutes the potential for human evil and their own responsibility. Bartrand was possessed by the idol, the Arishok was honor bound to follow the Qun, Meredith was possessed by the sword, and Orsino was railroaded into being another boss (probably possessed it seems with his backdealings in blood magic). Some poking around suggests Bioware just made Orsino do that to get another boss.

Fighting demons is okay but a demon is supposed to be evil and backstabby. When it's humans you are interacting with taking it upon themselves to be good or evil then you have more drama and grounds for powerful storytelling.

Also, they reused a lot of areas. But I've done plenty of game design/programming to know that art is one of the most taxing parts of making a game.

[Joran]

I just finished Dragon Age 2. This is probably the most emotionally invested I've been with any group of video game characters (offsetting Martin from Oblivion and the Vault 101 Dweller in Fallout 3). I was even yelling at the screen on some occasions. Never played DA1 but I might during December.

Especially:

Spoiler

Show

Bethany getting smashed right out the starting gate
Ketojan self-immolation I was hoping he'd join the party
At the end of All that Remains (see my avatar <===)
Rallying the party before the endgame (romanced Merrill)
Hawke walks away at the end with all the Templars backing off (sided with mages)

Feynriel's dream sequence was damn cool and Bioware has a lot of neat bits throughout its games. Isabela has an armor upgrade called 'rigid boning' . And I found a ring called Three Wolf Boon.

Has anyone used Merrill's blood mage powers effectively? I guess I wasn't investing points in the right areas since it was pretty much a quick death for her. I intended for Hawke to go Blood Mage but ended up playing as the Good Guy for once in a Bioware game. Ended up friends with everyone, except Fenris ended just short of it because I couldn't find enough ways to improve it in Act 3.

With Merrill, I ended up re-stating her so that her primary attributes were magic and health. Then I grabbed a bunch of the skills that required sustaining, so she ended up being 100% mana starved when in blood magic form.

Now she has the hp of Fenris with a ton of defensive spells! Only annoyance is that she constantly says she's tired because the system reads her as having 0 mana.

I think the main emotional impacts in the game for me were:

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Bethany's death. I felt like a major failure after that one. I think it was the most impactful death I felt in video games (I didn't play FFVII).

Marethari's brain lock. She's the most annoyingly, frustratingly passive-aggressive person in video games ever.

[Giggling Ghast]

One critique as far as DA and the storyline goes:

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I feel like it could have used a more dominate bad guy role. Maybe since all the big figures can be allies or enemies they have to be more moderate. The problem with demons is that at the end of the day saying 'a demon made them do it' dilutes the potential for human evil and their own responsibility. Bartrand was possessed by the idol, the Arishok was honor bound to follow the Qun, Meredith was possessed by the sword, and Orsino was railroaded into being another boss (probably possessed it seems with his backdealings in blood magic). Some poking around suggests Bioware just made Orsino do that to get another boss.

Fighting demons is okay but a demon is supposed to be evil and backstabby. When it's humans you are interacting with taking it upon themselves to be good or evil then you have more drama and grounds for powerful storytelling.

DA: Origins has more of an identifiable villain. You know nearly from the onset who you're working against. In fact, it has two — one is the typical ancient with inscrutable motives attempting to wipe out all life in Thedas, and the other is a more human villain who unwittingly aids the first Big Bad by trying to protect his homeland.

DA2 has no "villain" beyond the "circumstances" of the setting. It's an admirable effort, but YMMV if it works.

You should know before playing DAO that the two games are very different. DAO offers more customizability in its protagonist but at the expense of a personality. The combat is also considerably slower, but a bit more tactical.

[Arbitrarity]

You should know before playing DAO that the two games are very different. DAO offers more customizability in its protagonist but at the expense of a personality. The combat is also considerably slower, but a bit more tactical.

I honestly don't agree that the combat is more tactical in Origins. Certainly it encourages you to make better use of positioning with the camera, and it requires better positioning on lower difficulties due to friendly fire, but DA2 combat on Nightmare is much more difficult and execution/positioning reliant than Origins. This is especially true because FF in DA2 is broken stupid, due to the health mismatch.
Also, Origins has the potion chain-chug, which DA2 alleviated nicely. Some fights in the early game, on my first (Nightmare) run, were very, very, very hard in DA2, which I can't really say about Origins. Anders' templar fight, for example, is BRUTAL if you don't optimize really heavily.

Then again, Origins has its "tactical micromanagement" fights. Soloing Uldred, for example, is bloody hard if you do it early.

[Giggling Ghast]

I also found that I was thinking a lot more about my targets and the expenditure of resources in DA2 at the higher action levels. The templar fight is, as you mentioned, a real bitch if you aren't micro-managing.

However, I've also found that people perceive slower action to be more tactical, as "faster action" is more associated with button-mashing. I've ceased attempting to argue the point.

[Aux-Ash]

However, I've also found that people perceive slower action to be more tactical, as "faster action" is more associated with button-mashing.

Which is rather amusing if you ask me, since making snap decisions under timepressure is the very definition of tactics.

Really, what most people are requesting is to make the game(s) more logistical/strategical and -less- tactical.

[Mukora]

DAII is a bit harder than Origins. But only because enemies have healthbars as long as football fields.

[Arbitrarity]

DAII is a bit harder than Origins. But only because enemies have healthbars as long as football fields.

Use CCCs. Nightmare is all about the CCC's, elemental weaknesses, and avoiding FF.
Mind you, FF is broken as hell in DA2. Long healthbars on enemies and massive damage from PC's means 1-1 friendly fire guarantees allied kills on any sort of FF without resistances prepared (well, except for the hardcoded percentage damage cap on player characters). It simply means you must position to avoid FF, which is probably a bad design decision. Tactical use of Friendly Fire (see the Berserker Vanguard) has its place in DA2, but it's a lot of work to make it anything other than suicide.

[Mukora]

Can you translate that to English, rather than... whatever the hell that is?

[Giggling Ghast]

CCC=Cross Class Combo
FF= Friendly Fire
Berserker Vanguard=A powerful two-handed warrior build

[Yora]

I saw the game in a store today for 30€ and so I grabbed it.
After about 40 minutes, I have to say it's a weird game.

Just from the intro level it seems like some poor mans god of war with boring graphics, but fortunately I know there's more to come. I'm not sure how I feel about the gore. Not that I'm squeemish, but gibbing three enemies with a single sword blow? That's a bit much, isn't it?

Started on Hard since I pretty much try everything on Hard first these days, but damn, the second time fighting that ogre is tough. Completely smashed my whole party three times now, and I wonder how much longer it will take me to get past him.

[Douglas]

Started on Hard since I pretty much try everything on Hard first these days, but damn, the second time fighting that ogre is tough. Completely smashed my whole party three times now, and I wonder how much longer it will take me to get past him.

Yeah, that ogre is a really hard fight once Varrick's storytelling exaggeration of your prowess is stripped away (seriously, he puts you in extreme end-game gear, gives you several extra levels, and a free super-regen so big it's practically impossible to lose the first time). From what I remember, you need some combination of "Aveline tank the ogre and DON'T LET HER DROP EVER" (you will need a mage with Heal to have even a chance at this, potion cooldowns won't cut it even if you have enough potions) and "kite forever" with "kill the small fry first".

Gibbing 3 enemies with one sword blow is all part of Varrick's exaggeration in the prologue, so don't take it too seriously - at least not yet. A dedicated damage focused two-hander build can do that sort of thing against mook-type enemies in the serious parts eventually, but it takes long enough to get there that you feel a lot more like you've earned the badassitude to do it.

[Giggling Ghast]

Note that if all your enemies are exploding once Varric's exaggerated intro is over, that's a bug. There's a patch to fix that.

Micro-management is key in that fight, as it was in DAO. Keep an eye on the ogre. If he pounds his chest, try to move your melee guys out of range. If he crouches, move out of his way or prepare to use Stonewall to trip him up as he charges. Make sure the hurlocks don't kill your mage.

[Yora]

From what I remember, you need some combination of "Aveline tank the ogre and DON'T LET HER DROP EVER" (you will need a mage with Heal to have even a chance at this, potion cooldowns won't cut it even if you have enough potions) and "kite forever" with "kill the small fry first".

It actually turned out to be a lot easier than that. Just paying a bit more attention to what's going on and moving Belany away when she gets ganked by darkspawn. Once I got all the darkspawn dead, the ogre was already down to 20%.
I play on PS3 and now I really see what people complained about the camera. When you are moving around in combat, you need a self adjusting camera, manually moved camera only works when you're looking at the characters from a distance. Only having pause when pressing the menu-button is a bit unusual, but after 2 hours all this goes a lot smother all by itself, without paying any attention to it.

Almost two hours in and after meeting Varrik, I have to say I like this game quite a lot. It's really ugly for a game from 2011, but I'm the kind of person who refuses to play the PS2 remake of Metal Gear Solid and stick to the original in all it's 24 bit glory, or Baldur's Gate without Higher Resolution mods, so that's not really a problem with me.
"Quests" have been very simplistic so far, but I guess the game is pretty much just starting right now.

[Zevox]

Just from the intro level it seems like some poor mans god of war with boring graphics,

Wut? Where the heck do you get that from? DA2 has nothing in common with God of War.

Zevox

[Giggling Ghast]

Wut? Where the heck do you get that from? DA2 has nothing in common with God of War.

It's the stylized combat. Lots of jumping.

Just a tip: if you get to the "Fools Rush In" quest with Isabela, don't loot the bodies of the mercenaries who attack you until after the fight, when Isabela asks you to search them. Otherwise, you might run into a big bug.

[Zevox]

It's the stylized combat. Lots of jumping.

...except there's practically no jumping in DA2. I think the only time anyone jumps in the game outside of cutscenes is a two-weapon fighting rouge who's within a certain distance of a target doing a quick leap attack to close the distance. Which is reminiscent of KotOR's force leap ability, not the jumping in an over-the-top-action game like God of War, which is manual and used for combos, air-to-ground attacks, platforming, and other such things that DA2 does not have.

Zevox

[Giggling Ghast]

Nonetheless, there's too much jumping. Jumping is just too damn silly. You never saw the Warden do back-flips in battle. His feet always remained firmly planted on the ground.

Unless he was killing an ogre. Or a high dragon. Or a broodmother.

Hey look, a writing contest.

[Yora]

Just had my first big laugh from the game.

Came back from Soundermount and was on my way to the Guard Headquarter and saw a questmarker on the healers house. I've heard about a Grey Warden from Ferelden being in the city, but I might have missed that he worked as a healer. I couldn't remember any warden than DAHero and Alistair, so I assumed it would be some big but kind old warrior. Turns out he's a mage, so make this a kind old man.
And then the assistant drops his name.

Not even close to what I expected. (I even though I have everyone recruited now, completely forgot he's in the game.)

Wut? Where the heck do you get that from? DA2 has nothing in common with God of War.

It's brown with lots of sand and you button mash to slaughter waves of undead soldiers. In addition to X for standard attack, you also have Box for Power Attack and Triangle for Wide Arc Swing.
But it does stop the moment Flemeth shows up.

[Zevox]

It's brown with lots of sand

All too many games are.

and you button mash to slaughter waves of undead soldiers.

Rarely, since there are relatively few undead in the game and, since you're playing on hard, button mashing won't get you far.

In addition to X for standard attack, you also have Box for Power Attack and Triangle for Wide Arc Swing.

Er, no, the buttons are X for a basic attack (which you can turn off and switch to an auto-attack like DA:O had), and the rest you can map to special attacks or abilities as you please - those two are just (I'm guessing, since I've only played a mage and two rogues) the default for a two-handed fighter. And the actual gameplay mechanics are absolutely nothing like God of War.

Zevox

[Giggling Ghast]

Rarely, since there are relatively few undead in the game and, since you're playing on hard, button mashing won't get you far.

I gotta contest that, as Kirkwall is filled to the brim with walking corpses.

I suspect Yora was referring to the hurlocks' new skeletal appearance.

[Yora]

Zevox is right with everything, but that's the impression I got from the first 15 Minutes. Once Flemeth shows up, it gets completely different.

[Zevox]

I gotta contest that, as Kirkwall is filled to the brim with walking corpses.

The only places I recall encountering many undead were outside Kirkwall, actually. Principally on the mountain. Inside Kirkwall you usually see thugs, thieves, mages, and demons.

Zevox

[Yora]

Damn! Hard is hard!
Happens rarely with games these days.

Should I pick a lower difficulty for my first playthrough, or will it get easier soon?
I got Captain Rainer only at the eighth or so try, and only because the abomination fell down dead after the first three seconds for some unknown reasons. Now killing Danzig isn't that difficult, but then that second mage shows up with still 6 to 8 warriors and everyone in potion cooldown.

[Giggling Ghast]

Should I pick a lower difficulty for my first playthrough, or will it get easier soon?

The fight with the slavers is a pretty difficult one, but there are harder fights ahead, particularly when you get to the Deep Roads.

Remember to make full use of bombs, poisons and Cross-Class Combos, as your life will be much harder without them. But if you're really finding the game too difficult, then bump it down to Normal.

[Yora]

I don't even know how to get bombs or how cross-class-combos work yet. I am also not sure how to aim single-target spells so I get the target I want to, while everyone is running around.
I think I play on normal until I know all the options the game hands me. Currently I need three to four attempts for every random gang I run into, and more like ten for story related fights. If it runs too smoothly once I've figured everything out, I can still go back to hard.

Another big suprise:

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Feynriel isn't Fenris. With the whole setup of the Wayward Son quest, I was sure it's the Fenris reqruitment quest. I probably won't have a single clue that I am about to meet Isabella until I'm standing right next to her.

[Douglas]

Another big suprise:

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Feynriel isn't Fenris. With the whole setup of the Wayward Son quest, I was sure it's the Fenris reqruitment quest. I probably won't have a single clue that I am about to meet Isabella until I'm standing right next to her.

Yeah, those two pretty much come out of nowhere for their introductions. They both show up before the Deep Roads Expedition, though, so if you're ready to depart for that and you still don't have them, you missed something.

If you need specifics or want to hurry up and get either of them, here's how to find them:
Fenris:

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Fenris's quest starts with a letter at Gamlen's house, and the quest is titled "Bait and Switch". Once you read the letter, go to Lowtown at night, find someone named Anso, and agree to help him. Fenris shows up part way through the quest.

Isabela:

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Recruit Anders, then go to the Hanged Man. She shows up in the common room there after Anders is recruited.

[Giggling Ghast]

I don't even know how to get bombs or how cross-class-combos work yet. I am also not sure how to aim single-target spells so I get the target I want to, while everyone is running around.

Bombs and poisons are easy. You order them at your house or directly from Tomwise the elf in Darktown. I believe that any character can use them, though I've never tried it with mages. Poisons work just like potions, and unlike DAO, their duration is generally half an hour. Bombs have to be targeted.

Cross-class combos are a bit trickier. Basically, you target an enemy with an ability that renders them STAGGERED, DISORIENTED or BRITTLE. Then another character targets that enemy with an ability that deals extra damage to an enemy with that condition. A symbol corresponding to the condition afflicting them will appear over their head.

For instance, have Varric use Pinning Shot on an enemy. Then have Aveline use the upgraded version of Assault or Scatter. You'll do considerably more damage to that enemy than just attacking.

If you're still confused, there should be an entry under "The Art of War" in your Codex corresponding to Cross-Class Combos.

Isabela:

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Recruit Anders, then go to the Hanged Man. She shows up in the common room there after Anders is recruited.

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On that front, I have heard from some people that they only found her at night. However, I always ran into her during the day.

[Cespenar]

I don't even know how to get bombs or how cross-class-combos work yet. I am also not sure how to aim single-target spells so I get the target I want to, while everyone is running around.
I think I play on normal until I know all the options the game hands me. Currently I need three to four attempts for every random gang I run into, and more like ten for story related fights. If it runs too smoothly once I've figured everything out, I can still go back to hard.

I played on hard, and that difficulty pretty much requires you to use cross-class-combos as a regular tactic. I think too that you should play it on normal until you get a grip on the combos.

[Yora]

I noticed that sometimes the Attack-Symbol on the enemy I am targeting turns from two swords to a shield with an x for a short moment. Any idea what that means?

Also, I sometimes can't use my special attacks, even though they don't have any cooldown and I have enough stamina. The icon changes from ready to unavailable a lot, often faster than I can get to the button to use it. Is there a third factor that affects when I can use these abilities?