Skill troubles

[byaku rai]

I am playing this homebrew monk in my current campaign. I would like some advice on what to do with the absolutely ridiculous Tumble, Balance, and Jump. Jump is a no-brainer; Tumble is going to replace the Slow Fall ability (I took the Sense the Void ACF, for blindsense instead of slow fall); and I can't find the source for the balance checks I want (walking on water, balancing on air, etc.).

[kharmakazy]

Complete adventurer has rules for using balance to resist being tripped.

Complete scoundrel has some relevant skill tricks.

Races of the Wild has rules for balance and moving through trees, as well as balancing on nonstandard surfaces.

I think the epic level handbook has the absurd balancing rules, but i dont have that book on hand to confirm.

[Lateral]

Here ya go.

[byaku rai]

I don't like the epic level handbook stuff because even with the ridiculous bonuses from the class, there is no way for me to achieve walking on air pre-epic. On the other hand, every spellcaster and his brother has either air walk or fly. I'm sort of hoping I can get my DM to lower those DCs a bit, but oh well.

I'll take a look at the skill tricks and come back.

... Some of the skill tricks actually look pretty nice. O.o

[Yuki Akuma]

Yeah, because you can totally walk on air without magic normally?

[Ryu_Bonkosi]

You have increased movement from being a monk, so use that to your advantage. With your massive Tumble look into the skill trick 'Acrobatic Backstab' and the skill 'Iaijutsu Focus' or somehow getting 'Sneak Attack'. Run up to someone, use a tumble check to move through their space and attack them. They are flat-footed and you get extra damage. By the time you can grab the skill trick you can have Spring Attack, and with you being able to Flurry with it, there is no reason for you not to have it.

[Yora]

Psionics has a lot of options for insane acrobatics. Some don't even require powers and can be done just with feats.

[mootoall]

Balance optimization time! Woo hoo!

Let's just see if we can do this pre-epic i.e. 20th level, just to be sure it's possible.

Start with, naturally, max ranks. +23
20 starting Dex, +5 level up +5 Tome +6 Gloves gives a +13
Masterwork Tool of Balance gives another +2
Magic item of balance +40, competence (costing only 160000)
Synergy bonus from Tumble gives a +2


So we have a competence bonus, a synergy bonus, a circumstance bonus, your stat bonus and skill rank bonus giving a +80. We still need Luck and Enhancement bonuses though!

I can't find the formula for luck bonuses to skills, but let's just assume it's the same as competence bonuses until someone corrects me. That's another +40, for 120. All doable with 20th level skills, and less than 20th level WBL.

Or you can take five levels of Wizard ...

[Lateral]

Start with, naturally, max ranks. +23
20 starting Dex, +5 level up +5 Tome +6 Gloves gives a +13
Masterwork Tool of Balance gives another +2
Magic item of balance +40, competence (costing only 160000)
Synergy bonus from Tumble gives a +2

He's using Jiriku's monk fix, and that already gives insane competence bonuses to Balance.

[mootoall]

Well alright then, that obviates a lot of the cost by level 18! Since you're getting +60 from there, get rid of the item of competence and subtract +20 from the enhancement/luck bonus item.

Edit: Heh, also just noticed that that Monk fix is still not proficient with unarmed strike ...

Edit the second: Ah, I also completely forgot about Item Familiars. They can do great things for skill checks.

[KillianHawkeye]

I don't like the epic level handbook stuff because even with the ridiculous bonuses from the class, there is no way for me to achieve walking on air pre-epic.

Kind of missing the point, aren't ya? You're not SUPPOSED to be able to do that pre-Epic.

[mootoall]

Kind of missing the point, aren't ya? You're not SUPPOSED to be able to do that pre-Epic.

But you can, making it even more suckish.

[Ravens_cry]

*lots o' statistics*

I would lower the Initial Dexterity somewhat, no way a creature as MAD as a Monk is getting 20 DEX at level 1. Still, for someone focused on it, it is completely doable to get very high skill check modifiers. Another way to add to it is to look at different kinds of bonuses, like luck and sacred. A lot of smaller bonuses is often cheaper then one big one.

[mootoall]

That particular fix requires no Str really, so a Halfling or other Dex increasing race isn't out of the question. It's, supposedly, Wis>Dex>Con. So 20 Dex isn't out of the question, and I forgot Item Familiar in that equation, possibly obviating the need for the +20 Enhancement/Luck bonus at all.

[byaku rai]

I started with Catfolk, and an 18 in Dex, so 22 starting Dex.

I took Vow of Poverty, though, so no uber-boosting items sadly... >.> On the other hand, all my stats are going to be amazing by level 20 and I get a +60 competence on Balance, Jump, and Tumble by 20.

I understand that balancing on air is supposed to be a post-epic thing. That's fine. It's just that by level 5 or 6, just about every spellcaster can do the same thing effortlessly with a spell. =/ So I was hoping to replicate that without magic. I'll just convince my DM to lower the DCs.