Attacking people in a grapple

[Kol Korran]

Hi. these may be simple questions, but I can't find the answer to them anywhere, which is kind of odd. The questions refer to people outside a grapple attacking either grappler in a grapple.

Is there any chance to hit either one? (such as AoO of people in a bull rush?) Or is there a penalty if you wish to only attack the one you want?

What if the sizes of the grapplers are different, such as an Ogre grappling a halfling, or a human grappled by a stirge? Does it change the miss chances?

What if a pin is achieved? (I think the characters will be less dynamic in such a situation?)

What happens in the cases of grapplers who have to wrap themselves around the body of the opponent? (snakes, gibbering mouthers, Raggamofins?)

If you have either official rulings (preffered) or good house rules (also quite welcomed), I'd love to hear. Thanks!

[sonofzeal]

- People in a grapple are all in the same square, but nothing prevents them from being targeted normally without regard to respective sizes. DMs may over-rule of course, but there's nothing RAW to suggest it.

- The -4 penalty for shooting into melee almost certainly applies (or should apply) for ranged weapons.

- People in a grapple are considered flatfooted against attacks made from outside the grapple.


Hope that helps!

[RandomLunatic]

Obnoxiously, they squirreled that info away in the Combat Modifiers section.

But the short version is:

-Grapplers lose their DEX bonus against non-grapplers.
-Melee attacks always hit their intended target.
-Unless the attacker has Improved Precise Shot, ranged attacks roll randomly to determine who gets targeted. At no point do they say how to randomize this.
-Pinned characters are immobilized, and ranged attacks made against them no longer target randomly.

[lsfreak]

- People in a grapple are considered flatfooted against attacks made from outside the grapple.

-Grapplers lose their DEX bonus against non-grapplers.

Just to clarify, it is no Dex bonus, not being flat-footed. The two are not entirely interchangeable (though I believe even the books confuse them anyways).

[Keld Denar]

For different sized grapplers, a simple proportionality will work. Say...if an ogre grapples a halfling, the ogre is size large, while the halfling is small. 2 smalls make a medium, and 2 mediums make a large. So the ogre counts as 4 small creatures, while the halfling only counts as one. There is a 4/5 (80%) chance that any ranged attack will hit the ogre, and a 1/5 (20%) chance to hit the halfling.

Thats how I've always run it. I don't think it is addressed in the rules, but it seems pretty common sense to me.

[AntiTrust]

Rules Compendium says using a melee weapon to attack grapplers they lose dex to AC. For ranged attacks however its 50/50 who you actually hit. It's page 61 of that book for reference.

[MrLemon]

Most of the questions have already been answered, but for the pinned-part:

A pinned Character is treated as having 0 DEX (a -5 Modifier) and can be Sneak Attacked.
Furthermore, he get's an additional -4 to AC against melee attacks, but not against ranged.
No chance to hit the wrong guy, even on a ranged miss.

My head almost exploded just now from reading that as a -4 to attack

[Kol Korran]

Thanks everyone. Your answers deal nicely with for my problems.

[nameurl]

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050301a
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050308a
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050322a
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050315a
I found this very helpful for my grappling barb. I realized that moving with an enemy grappled, past your allies (especially rogues) gives them an aoo. Teamwork high-five!

[Keld Denar]

Funny thing that they didn't correct with that RotG article...

Pinning only lasts for 1 round. Even if you start your turn in the grapple, you have to spend one grapple action to move into a pin. Thus, you are already committed to spend at least a standard action to attack, if not a full attack (with a high enough BAB to get multiple grapple actions).

If you have a foe pinned AND you attempt to move the grapple, you get a +4 bonus on that check. Unfortunately, you don't have the standard action left to move the grapple after you pin your foe, because you already made at least one attack to get that foe pinned.

Basically, the +4 for moving a pinned foe is a rule that will almost NEVER EVER come up. Only Shapechanging into a Choker or Chronotryn, or activating a Belt of Battle for at least 2 charges will allow you to do that.

Pointless rule is pointless...