D&D 4E WW - The Castle of Illusions

[Khal]

I am being defensive because I was up for the lynch for some really bad reasons.

By the way, a bandwagon really starts by the third point, not the first.

Didn't know 3 votes to 5 was up for the lynch

And with how the rules were known on day 2, there wasn't a possibility of a mistake. There was no reason not to go for a day 3 me/FC death, followed by a NK on whoever lived to keep a network from starting.

[Gray Mage]

Didn't know 3 votes to 5 was up for the lynch

And with how the rules were known on day 2, there wasn't a possibility of a mistake. There was no reason not to go for a day 3 me/FC death, followed by a NK on whoever lived to keep a network from starting.

3 of 4, actually and in a span of few minutes.

Except that the wolves would most likely know that they didn't do anything. So, either a townie made a grave mistake or there were something odd going on. Not that I think they'd care, since we almost gave the chicken, the ardent and the wizard for the wolves on a silver platter.

[Khal]

3 of 4, actually and in a span of few minutes.

Except that the wolves would most likely know that they didn't do anything. So, either a townie made a grave mistake or there were something odd going on. Not that I think they'd care, since we almost gave the chicken, the ardent and the wizard for the wolves on a silver platter.

No, I mean 3 to 5. FC burned his encounter power in the hopes of murdering me.

Where do you get that we almost gave the wizard to the wolves?

[Gray Mage]

No, I mean 3 to 5. FC burned his encounter power in the hopes of murdering me.

Where do you get that we almost gave the wizard to the wolves?

Yes, but FC had crossed his vote when I made the big post and that I'd guess that he wouldn't vote for me. Besides, bandwagons can get big really fast, so I'd rather nip this at the bud.

The wizard would more likely follow after you or maybe before. Think about it as if you didn't know about the 5% rule. Cd4 aproached you telling FC was the LL. If FC were to be lynched and proven to not be the LL you'd most likely assume cd4 was a wolf trying to trick you, wouldn't you?

[Gray Mage]

Except there's no situation where I would have given out cd4's name.

Either he's wrong, and FC murders me, and I don't reveal cd4, or he's right, FC dies, and I don't reveal cd4.

But that doesn't matter. Think of it from the wolves perspective: They can lynch FC today, then me the day after, OR they can give FC an out, watch me die, then murder FC as needed.

The second situation is better for the wolves, and the first only makes sense as better if you consider the possibility that the 5% rule exists.

I meant the trickery if we went with the original idea that was lynch FC yesterday. And I fail to see how the second is better then the first since it'd clear FC and so he could be baned or protected by the paladin again.

Edit:@Khal: Did you just delete your post? Not cool, dude.

[Khal]

I meant the trickery if we went with the original idea that was lynch FC yesterday. And I fail to see how the second is better then the first since it'd clear FC and so he could be baned or protected by the paladin again.

Edit:@Khal: Did you just delete your post? Not cool, dude.

Post was deleted because I figured out about 5 seconds after I hit the post button what you were talking about and wanted to give a better response to it. My apologies for the faux pas.

Edit: better response. How's it clear him? Knowing that he's the fighter doesn't prove anything either way, all we know is that cd4 misscried the fighter as the lich lord.

[Gray Mage]

Post was deleted because I figured out about 5 seconds after I hit the post button what you were talking about and wanted to give a better response to it. My apologies for the faux pas.

Edit: better response. How's it clear him? Knowing that he's the fighter doesn't prove anything either way, all we know is that cd4 misscried the fighter as the lich lord.

Well, for the future when debating with me, I'd rather have you edit the post instead of deleting and making a new one, just so you know.

On your response, you have to make up your mind. On post 301 you said that "with how the rules were known on day 2, there wasn't a possibility of a mistake". Now you say that the wolves would know about it so FC wouldn't be cleared and so would prefer day 3.

[Dr paradox]

((Penguinator. Not really sure why, he just strikes me as a little too friendly. Sorry, no time for RP this evening.))

[Internet Flea]

((...you are all confusing me greatly. Eternis gets my non-vote today.

Also, Shaman might want to tell me who he voided, otherwise I will destroy you as only a Neutral scrier can! ))

[bladescape]

That's about as close to a narrator publicly confirming I'm Good as it'll ever get so I'll take it

No. I merely confirmed that the conflicting scries weren't a mistake and there was a chance of misscrying.

[Internet Flea]

No. I merely confirmed that the conflicting scries weren't a mistake and there was a chance of misscrying.

(("He's not necessarily bad" is still as close as Fleeing Coward will ever get to being confirmed good. ))

[otakuryoga]

long post inc........
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agreed on fc not being cleared yet....or khal... all i see atm is khal "o ok i dont think you are lich now fc i believe you are good" and FC: "ok i now believe you are indeed good khal"

that being pointed out i think we are being played...by khal, by FC, or by both, though i am leaning more toward khal

points that bother me about khal

1) he says he was contacted by warlock(ramsus) but the description of warlocks power mentions NOTHING about the warlock being given names
--Encounter:Choose three roles to choose their targets for tonight, those three roles are told who you are and your alignment. so, how could the warlock have contacted him? (plus theres the whole HE DIED thing so unless it was done post death.....)

2) now he says he was contacted (before he made any claim) by the wizard...that would make sense if the wizard scried him and got ardent....but apparently the wizard scried FC as lich.....so why would he contact a unknown person with that info? we could ask...o wait he is dead too(convenient) (also confirmed good wizard said he was voided night 1 and therefore could not have scried either one)

3) wizards ghost posts he got an interesting scry night 2(dont like the hinting from dead but cant unring that bell) someone not being who he claimed would certainly qualify as interesting---as an aside i would just like to say "wow, i wish in some game 4 people including 2 info roles would just contact me out of the blue and give me their roles and gathered info night 1 without possibly knowing my role"
.................................................. ..................................................
could be pointed at either one or both of them together
4) we settled on not lynching either one because FC said he would prove himself today and instead we lynch the avenger who is very strong antiwolf(not needing to out himself and get a lynchwagon going but just killing any wolf he finds the next night)
---yes i know grey mage was 1st to point at Xan but isnt the conventional wisdom "look at #2,3,or 4" and FC was #2 and 3...assuming he is fighter---and now neither one wants to prove anything, just hug and say the other one is now confirmed good(and i am still trying to figure out how EITHER is confirmed good except by them confirming each other)

5) if they were both good wouldnt the wolves have targetted one of em for nk to both throw more suspicion at the other and try to draw out the 2nd free pally save?

most of post can be answered if khal says he scanned FC himself so ignore

[TsukikoJ]

Eternis since that's where I was before all of this FC/Khal madness.

[otakuryoga]

Someone scried FC as evil one night, and someone else scried him as good the next.

problem i have with this is that if it was 2 different people there is no way to know which one got the critical failure...and if it was the same person that scried him 2x shouldnt they have got the same result both times?(example a fool cant scry someone 2 nights in a row to try and find out if hes the fool because the first scry "locks" in and he will always the get that scry on that person(and if the 1st scry doesnt lock the result...there is no way to know whether 1st or 2nd scry was the bad result)

so if khal is now saying he scried FC as mason(or that the psion scanned FC as good)(and WOW, that would make 3!!! info roles that contacted khal on night1 or day2 when they couldnt have all scanned him)
and wizard said FC was lich
...which one was right and which was wrong

most of post can be answered if khal says he scanned FC himself so ignore

[otakuryoga]

question for Fleeing Coward

are you absolutely 100% certain that khal is team good?

[Ramsus]

I think this is the most frustrated at being dead and thus (I assume) forbidden to state my opinions and such I've ever been. And that's as an aside to really wishing I got to play this game at all.

[Eternis]

Eternis looks up from the book he was reading.
"Otakuryoga, Khal is not evil, or if he is, he is extremely foolish and better left alive. His attempt on the life of the coward shows that he was convinced completely, as if FC was good he was the obvious target the next day. A single victim of the side of good is worse than useless if a follower of the lich dies the next day, given that we outnumber them in triplicate at the moment."
For IF's eye's only:

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I assume your non-vote means that you don't really know who to go for, and just chose someone at random. That's completely acceptable.

TsukikoJ... :

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Why are you suspicious of me? I'm just curious, as far as I'm aware, I've done nothing to cause suspicion.

General:
Let's take a good look at what people were doing before all this Khal/FC mixup. Then we can judge on whether or not their decisions are suspicious without this heated debate.

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I may edit this to be an RP, but not today.

Edit 1: First RP change!

[banjo1985]

As an answer to the above, Khal is most definitely not an idiot, when he said FC was the Lich Lord I think he either had what he thought was proof, or it was an intentional ploy of some sort. It may say 2011 on his join date, but Khal's a good player from WAAAAY back when I first started on the forums. He knows his stuff, that's what I'm trying to say.

As for what people were doing before this unfortunate situation came about, well that takes us all the way back to Day 1, also known as crapshoot day. But in this case we got Hazzardevil on the first lynch, which means the day tells us more than most first days do. I'm going to have to go back and look carefully at what happened then, and give up FC and Khal until something happens to clarify things.

This is usually the time I'd resort to just voting for Murska on principal, but he doesn't appear to be playing.

EDIT - And looking at the Day 1 votes its still hard to work anything out. Onime-no-Enishi and Bunny Earz probably come out the worst from it, but its as clear as mud. Hazzardevil backed himself into a corner after the first few points and made it easy for fellow evil players to put a vote on him to use later, Hey, I helped lynch an evil guy Day 1, I'm innocent!

The best I've got is on Onime, for only pointing at Hazzar really late in the day when his death was a forgone conclusion. Thing is, Xan did that as well, and he was a good guy. Not much to go on at all at the moment.

[Onime-no-Enishi]

((been really busy whole day and may be busy til night, no time to RP, so im gonna just point at someone random while i sort things in my head out Bunny Earz))

[Internet Flea]

I assume your non-vote means that you don't really know who to go for, and just chose someone at random. That's completely acceptable.

((You've got it wrong. I know exactly who to vote for, but chose someone at random anyway because I don't have a team.))

[Lord Loss]

The elderly poet woke from his sleep to see a shadow of a man flutter by, wearing wizardly robes. Had they been the gray robes of an elder wizard? Or were they the robes of an another kind of wizard, a darker mage. Had he just seen the legendary Dark Magi? Loyal follower of the Lich-Lord?

He tried to put his thoughts together, but they were muddled. He couldn't concentrate on anything. He fell back into his slumber, where the memories of the mage were wiped away by a torrent of horrid nightmares, echoeing his fears for the lives of his comrades, and himself.

EDIT: Perhaps it's just me, but Gray Mage seems just as suspect as Onime-No-Enishi and Bunny Earz.

[otakuryoga]

khal....did you scry FC as a mason?
or did the psion scry him good?

makes a big difference and could decide my vote for today since one is "accurate" and one isnt

guess i should have re-read the role description a bit more carefully--missed the "accurate" in ardent

[Zjoot]

My vote is going to go to Onime-no-Enishi. His voting on day one was really wierd. I also think people have the wrong idea going for Gray Mage. I'm really confused at the moment though; I missed all of day two, and I'm a bit confused as to some other things as well. But don't worry, I'll figure it out eventually.

[otakuryoga]

gray mage to give us 4 votes on him

sorry gray but you are only one at 3 right now and deadline looms in 4 hours or so

if lich is on gray mage that makes 5...but lord loss was at 5 1st assuming FC is fighter and used his encounter power

this will tell us for sure

if khal says HE scanned FC then i may be willing to change

but if khal says the psion told him FC is good that could be a problem scenario

[Gray Mage]

gray mage to give us 4 votes on him

sorry gray but you are only one at 3 right now and deadline looms in 4 hours or so

if lich is on gray mage that makes 5...but lord loss was at 5 1st assuming FC is fighter and used his encounter power

this will tell us for sure

if khal says HE scanned FC then i may be willing to change

but if khal says the psion told him FC is good that could be a problem scenario

Interesting. See, right now I'm in doubt if you made a mistake or are saying how many votes I have wrong on purpose. (Hint, it's five now.)

Lord Loss. Let's see if the Lich Lord is on me or not. But don't let me stop you if you'd like to lynch Lord Loss, random player, I'd very much prefer to live, but if it'd mean being one step closer to netting the LL I guess it wouldn't have been in vain.

[Penguinator]

((Penguinator. Not really sure why, he just strikes me as a little too friendly. Sorry, no time for RP this evening.))

How so?

[Dr paradox]

((I think I'll be switching over to Gray Mage for the moment, since nobody seems inclined to vote for Penguin. Ah well. STILL not time for RP. I'll get in a good long post after the Lynch results come in.))

[otakuryoga]

Interesting. See, right now I'm in doubt if you made a mistake or are saying how many votes I have wrong on purpose. (Hint, it's five now.)

Lord Loss. Let's see if the Lich Lord is on me or not. But don't let me stop you if you'd like to lynch Lord Loss, random player, I'd very much prefer to live, but if it'd mean being one step closer to netting the LL I guess it wouldn't have been in vain.

you are correct...i missed the split up name from lord loss
vote withdrawn to put you at 4 solid, 5 if lich is on you

i know it seems harsh to have your life depend on FC being truthful but at least we can make darn sure with this that he isnt the lich runnin a scam


so right now we have 5 or 6 on you after paradox switched
and anywhere from 2-6 on lord loss...with lord loss having gotten to 5 or 6votes first if FC is truthful

is my math workin right this time?

and throwaway vote at the neutral flea

[Penguinator]

Not exactly. 6 on Lord Loss, 5 on Gray Mage. 6 if Lich Lord is on Mage.

[Gray Mage]

((I think I'll be switching over to Gray Mage for the moment, since nobody seems inclined to vote for Penguin. Ah well. STILL not time for RP. I'll get in a good long post after the Lynch results come in.))

Forget about the interesting from otaku's point. This is really interesting.

Edit:Seriously, this is a very lupine move.