Is Varsuuvius Lawful, Chaotic or True Neutral?

[Sunken Valley]

Title says it all really.

[thereaper]

There's never been any evidence either way, which probably indicates TN.

[jidasfire]

V is neither impulsive or free-spirited like Elan, Haley, and Belkar, nor honorable or steady like Roy and Durkon. S/he has aspects of both, but is ultimately neither. That puts the androgynous mage squarely in the True Neutral camp.

[NYCharlie212]

I think V's Neutral Good. V's a good wizard but V is neither Lawful nor Chaotic.

[Great Dane]

We don't know the effects of V's rampage with soul splices on hir alignment.

[rbetieh]

We know what true nuetral looks like, its Roys sister. Now ask yourself, does V behave like that? She seems very loyal and very much devoted to me. I fall into the lawful camp on this one.

[hamishspence]

Not everyone with the same alignment has the same traits- compare Roy, Miko, Hinjo, Durkon, and so on.

Being loyal and devoted to your fellow party members isn't necessarily evidence of Lawfulness. It might be a Good aspect (that's outweighed by V's relatively disinterested attitude to helping strangers, and ruthlessness toward enemies).

[rbetieh]

Well there are differnt types of LG sure. But lets be sure we catalog these. Roy and Hinjo are very much alike in their level of responsibility, Hinjo is just less likely to break code. Miko was a bit on the crazy side, if you consider alignment thoughts and deeds then she technically should have lost her powers right before the throne room incident. Durkon is Lawful Dwarf as opposed to Lawful Human.

The more interesting Lawful character is O-Chul. He is willing to make friends with a member of team Evil, seemed to stay civil even when being tortured by Redcloak, and took every chance he got to defeat the forces of evil. Talk about examplary Paladinhood. He even helped out a crazy elf who should have been screaming evil to his detect evil at the time (if not her, the splices were known criminals and his detect should have seen that) just because the elf was challenging Xykon. O-chul is a serious action Hero (with capital H).

But to your bigger point. Elan and Haley have friendships they are protecting, I can see that V may be loyal out of friendship as well. I am not convinced that V isnt lawful yet, but I concede that she may not be acting out of loyalty for loyaltys sake.

[zimmerwald1915]

She's neutral evil.

[Kaeso]

I don't get why some people still debate V's alignment on the Good-Evil axis, it's an in-canon fact (as admitted by the fiends) that V is neutral on that axis. While it's true his actions during the soul splice may have knocked him to the deeper end of the alignment pool he's by no means moustache-twirlingly evil.

As for the Law-Chaos axis, I have no real idea. He seems to be somewhat loyal to Roy and Haley, but being loyal to your friends says nothing about your alignment, it at best says something about your perception of friendship. Then again, he was willing to leave Durkon and Elan behind when they really needed him, which would imply a more self-centered attitude. I'd say he's TN with some chaotic and evil tendencies.

IMHO TN would fit best for another reason as well: he's androgynous, making TN a very good alignment for him: he's in no way inclined towards good, evil, law, chaos, masculinity or femininity.

[hamishspence]

It was admitted by the fiends before the Splice "You have the Good. Or the Neutral, as the case might be".

After the V arc ended "we have a 50% chance of ending up with the elf's soul anyway"- doesn't really come across as "still Neutral".

Seems more like "Evil- 50% chance of redeeming self".

[t209]

I think V's Neutral Good. V's a good wizard but V is neither Lawful nor Chaotic.

He is not good or is good until he wiped out a whole family.

[hamishspence]

Killing Kubota while being unaware of any particular wrongdoing by him- just guessing, may count as well, for "lack of respect for life" (with respect for life being a trait Good characters need).

[zimmerwald1915]

As for the Law-Chaos axis, I have no real idea. He seems to be somewhat loyal to Roy and Haley, but being loyal to your friends says nothing about your alignment, it at best says something about your perception of friendship. Then again, he was willing to leave Durkon and Elan behind when they really needed him, which would imply a more self-centered attitude. I'd say he's TN with some chaotic and evil tendencies.

She was also willing to go out of her way to save Elan when he needed her, back at the bandit camp. She said explicitly it was because she did not want to sacrificer her "hard-earned friendship with him so easily". Coupled, however, with her leaving the boat, this speaks to either character growth in one direction or willingness to make a judgment based on an appreciation of the current circumstances. The latter certainly suggests Neutrality.

[Klear]

After the V arc ended "we have a 50% chance of ending up with the elf's soul anyway"- doesn't really come across as "still Neutral".

Seems more like "Evil- 50% chance of redeeming self".

To me it seemed more like "neutral with 50% chance of falling into evil".

[hamishspence]

A celestial does mention V's "dramatic turn toward evil"- but Roy misses that it was V, not Belkar, that was being talked about.

However, Eugene, when it's explained, decides not to tell Roy.

It is one of those things that's a bit subjective- but a case can be made that V is close to the Evil/neutral borderline.


Which side, however, may be interpreted differently depending on the viewer.

[KingFlameHawk]

As I see it at the beginning V as squarly true neutral at the begining and after V dealings with the fiends he became neutral evil under the splice and after the splice and after he learns what he has done wrong I feel that V is at least trying to become neutral good.

[rbetieh]

But he doesnt really "go both ways", is my greater point. Besides purposefully messing with Belkar, V pretty much always sides with the Order. Even leaving Elan and Durkon to research new spells was not an abandonment of the order, it was a means to help the greater Order (the whole team, not just some of the members). V is a big picture thinker that runs into the trees because he is focused on the forrest. As far as I can tell, V has never abandoned his personal philosophy out of convenience, nor betrayed a family member due to a small slight. If he was true nuetral, I dont think he would have signed the divorce papers so quickly.

[lio45]

We know what true nuetral looks like, its Roys sister. Now ask yourself, does V behave like that? She seems very loyal and very much devoted to me. I fall into the lawful camp on this one.

Honestly? Yes, I think V behaves more or less like Roy's sister.

Look at the bottom half of this strip... that attitude is mighty incompatible with Lawful IMO:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0323.html

[iBear]

True Neutral. If V was good, he wouldn't have taken the IFCC up on the soul splice, especially after they presented him with a viable alternative. If V was evil, he wouldn't have hesitated to take the soul splice.

If V was lawful, he wouldn't have disintegrated Kubota after he'd been captured. V's too much of a team player (usually) to be chaotic.

[Zevox]

True Neutral. V does not display any of the traits of lawful or chaotic individuals to sufficient degree to fall into one of those alignments.

As for good/evil, I'd say V has never been good. Up until the soul splice, she was certainly neutral on that axis. Now though, it's arguable whether her actions during the soul splice were sufficient that her alignment now qualifies as evil in spite of the rest of her life. Given how she has reacted to the soul splice events, I doubt she'll remain such if it does, however.

Zevox

[zimmerwald1915]

V's too much of a team player (usually) to be chaotic.

This doesn't necessarily matter. Elan's chaotic, and is elated when allowed to participate in team activities.

[Hazzardevil]

She made a Faustian Pact, so therefore she is lawful evil, but no-one else seems to have relised that.
(I always refer to V as she, mostly because otherwise Haleys the only girl in the group.

[Esprit15]

True Neutral with Chaotic tendencies.

[lio45]

It was admitted by the fiends before the Splice "You have the Good. Or the Neutral, as the case might be".

After the V arc ended "we have a 50% chance of ending up with the elf's soul anyway"- doesn't really come across as "still Neutral".

Seems more like "Evil- 50% chance of redeeming self".

I would disagree; Roy's officially and unarguably Good, yet his file almost got chucked into the Neutral bin... in the exact same way, even if V's still Neutral post-splice, the Neutral afterlife (assuming such a thing exists -- I'm a D&D n00b) personnel could decide that V's file should end up in the Evil bin.

It seems to be done on a case-by-case basis, with a personal record evaluation in which the evaluator has a lot of leeway. (At least that's how it's done in the Good afterlife.)

So, the way I read it, that 50% statement means that the fiends think there's a ~50% chance the people at the Neutral afterlife check-in evaluation will ultimately decide to send V's file their way... which IMO is a pretty reasonable guess.

[Darthteej]

To those using V's behavior towards the order as evidence for a specific alignment, it must be pointed out that a common racial trait of elves is fierce loyalty to their friends. I see it as a racial trait that doesn't really speak to alignment one way or the other.

[Demonic1000]

True Neutral!

[iBear]

This doesn't necessarily matter. Elan's chaotic, and is elated when allowed to participate in team activities.

Elan is Chaotic, but he doesn't venture into Lawful territory very often. V does both Chaotic and Lawful actions based on his own thoughts and opinions. He'll disintegrate Kobuta and ditch the party to continue his research uninterrupted, but he'll also bill someone for spell components and agree to sign divorce papers.

True Neutral is about doing your own thing regardless of whether it's good, evil, lawful, or chaotic.

She made a Faustian Pact, so therefore she is lawful evil, but no-one else seems to have relised that.

V toook the soul splice (an evil, selfish act) so he could save his family, teleport the refugee fleet to the abandoned elven outpost, and try to kill Xykon to save the world (all good acts).

The splice may have had an affect on V's alignment, but not enough to push him into Evil territory. If anything, the experience made him want to be a better person (which is not Evil thinking).

[ORione]

Since the soul splice V has been trying to be nonevil, and that's important.

I do agree that there isn't much indication on the Law-Chaos axis, which implies neutrality.

[lio45]

True Neutral.

(I realized I had posted twice already in the thread, but still hadn't yet given my opinion on the OP question.)

That seems so clear to me in the story, I actually kinda expect Rich to show up and confirm it the way he did with Durkon's alignment recently. (And then lock the thread :P) Too bad he won't drop us a hint of V's original gender at the same time...