DotA 2 - Valve's up and coming hat simulator

[Cynan Machae]

Usual sentiments? I found it to be pretty objective

[Meta]

And peppered with all the usual sentiments. Still, it's a handy intro for someone transferring over.

LoL is objectively simpler than DotA. How that effects difficulty to play is an opinion, I admit, but I think most people would say chess is a more difficult game to learn than checkers.

[Math_Mage]

Usual sentiments? I found it to be pretty objective

Well, for example, I'm thinking of the part where he talks about mana cost of DotA spells vs. LoL spells as being the difference between a SUPER SRS GAME where you have to manage your mana, and a silly game where you can just spam spells and not care. Health regen is a vital concern in DotA where in LoL you can just ignore pots unless you're jungling. Carries are using abilities all the time in DotA, whereas in LoL they just right-click to win. It certainly could be a LOT worse, but as a member of his target audience (LoL players), it turns me off when I see him misunderstanding or mischaracterizing the LoL dynamic.

[Shovah]

After reading that post it seems to me that, regardless of tone, a lot of those points were more just to make it clear that people transferring over should look out for those things.

I've played around with all of the major MOBAs, and they do all have a different flow that can really throw you off if you've played another heavily. I find it very useful to have a list of things to be careful of.

His carry comments seemed to get a little muddled, but again, it seemed to me that the whole bit about abilities was just an added bit of him pointing out how the larger amounts of cc meant the harder carries of DotA 2 could still be shut down.

[tribble]

the harder carries of DotA 2 could still be shut down.

Yeah, if you have something like vengeful spirit or a pudge who can land hooks, maybe.

[efdf]

The main problem with the LoL to DotA 2 post is that the poster has an extremely weak understanding of LoL strategy so most of his comparisons between optimal LoL and DotA 2 play don't actually have any relevance to a veteran LoL player. The entire point of the post is things you should change in your playstyle when transitioning from LoL to DotA 2 but most of the things he describes as part of the LoL playstyle aren't actually true so can't be changed.

[Shovah]

Vengeful spirit has a pretty generic single-target stun. If a team doesn't have that kind of cc, they're probably in big trouble regardless of if there's a farmed carry or not.


Which parts in particular do you think he was wrong about?
I didn't give it that much of a read, and haven't played a huge amount of LoL, so I'm honestly curious.

[Neftren]

The main problem with the LoL to DotA 2 post is that the poster has an extremely weak understanding of LoL strategy so most of his comparisons between optimal LoL and DotA 2 play don't actually have any relevance to a veteran LoL player. The entire point of the post is things you should change in your playstyle when transitioning from LoL to DotA 2 but most of the things he describes as part of the LoL playstyle aren't actually true so can't be changed.

Yeah, I feel like the poster had a weak understanding of LoL mechanics.

I can't really speak much for the DotA side of things, but from the three games I've played, the games bear a strong (yet also only a passing) resemblance. The main changes I've found are mostly in how the mechanics and game engine operate. One plays much closer to a traditional RTS, while the other focuses more on managing one champion.

[tribble]

Vengeful spirit has a pretty generic single-target stun. If a team doesn't have that kind of cc, they're probably in big trouble regardless of if there's a farmed carry or not.


Which parts in particular do you think he was wrong about?
I didn't give it that much of a read, and haven't played a huge amount of LoL, so I'm honestly curious.

I was referring to vengeful's ultimate, actually. Dat swap.

[The Succubus]

I was referring to vengeful's ultimate, actually. Dat swap.

Oh, so Vengeful Spirit is essentially Andromeda from HoN?

....

Also,

gief key please.

[Shovah]

I was referring to vengeful's ultimate, actually. Dat swap.

Wouldn't any kind of initiation accomplish more or less the same thing (giving you a second or two to start CC-ing your intended target)?



Yes, Andromeda was a direct port of Vengeful Spirit. Unfortunately, I'm out of spare keys .

[Meta]

Wouldn't any kind of initiation accomplish more or less the same thing (giving you a second or two to start CC-ing your intended target)?



Yes, Andromeda was a direct port of Vengeful Spirit. Unfortunately, I'm out of spare keys .

Swap is an extremely powerful skill. Initiation on a hero like Lion or Pudge is obviously awesome. It can also be used to save allies that are getting chased really easily. It's great for interrupting channeling spells like Black Hole. Since it's physical it goes through BKB as well.

[9mm]

Here's a link to an excellent post on the differences between DotA2 and LoL for people coming over from that game: http://forums.somethingawful.com/sho...#post398156981

oh hey another "welcome to dota" post by someone who has no idea how to play LoL, or how that game works. People really need to get over the fact they are separate games that require different skillsets and strategy.

[Shovah]

Swap is an extremely powerful skill. Initiation on a hero like Lion or Pudge is obviously awesome. It can also be used to save allies that are getting chased really easily. It's great for interrupting channeling spells like Black Hole. Since it's physical it goes through BKB as well.

Oh, I know how useful a skill it is in general, I just meant that other initiation should be able to do the same job with regards to shutting down a farmed carry (which is what we were discussing).

[Nargan]

oh hey another "welcome to dota" post by someone who has no idea how to play LoL, or how that game works. People really need to get over the fact they are separate games that require different skillsets and strategy.

They are the same genre. And they have the same basic underlying concept because of that- kill the towers.

And it's because they are in the same genre that people make comparisons, because every human forever has done that. Books, TV, food, games. Not just entertainment either, but those are just more relevant examples.

Also I got a beta key and i'm loving DoTA a lot more than LoL. It's less infuriating, and I have no idea why.

[9mm]

They are the same genre. And they have the same basic underlying concept because of that- kill the towers.

And it's because they are in the same genre that people make comparisons, because every human forever has done that. Books, TV, food, games. Not just entertainment either, but those are just more relevant examples.

Also I got a beta key and i'm loving DoTA a lot more than LoL. It's less infuriating, and I have no idea why.

except that, fundamentally, the only similarity between the two is they use a mouse and keyboard to play. the mechanics behind the games are in fact that different. yes there are towers and a base; but you go about destroying them in completely different ways.

[Suedars]

except that, fundamentally, the only similarity between the two is they use a mouse and keyboard to play. the mechanics behind the games are in fact that different. yes there are towers and a base; but you go about destroying them in completely different ways.

In both games you have carries who last hit creeps for money to be strong in the late game. You have gankers who roam the map to get kills to establish map control. You have supports who help protect the carries and buy wards so you can avoid ganks and get better positioning for team fights. I could keep listing things for another hour, but it's really not worth the time. Yes, these things are done differently and are of different levels of importance in the two games, but there's still a huge number of broad similarities.

[Meta]

Oh, I know how useful a skill it is in general, I just meant that other initiation should be able to do the same job with regards to shutting down a farmed carry (which is what we were discussing).

I wasn't singling you out, your's just happened to be the last post on the subject.

[tribble]

I went after vengeful's swap and pudge's hook because those have the unique ability to rip an enemy hero out of position. Enemy doesn't want to initiate under your tower? Too bad, GET OVER HERE. They're hugging their own tower? GET OVER HERE.

[Meta]

I went after vengeful's swap and pudge's hook because those have the unique ability to rip an enemy hero out of position. Enemy doesn't want to initiate under your tower? Too bad, GET OVER HERE. They're hugging their own tower? GET OVER HERE.

More fun if your team has mass force staffs and coordination :)

[Keld Denar]

One thing I've noticed...with built in voice chat, team work in DotA2 is MUCH more coordinated. I mean, we used to get that in pub stomps when a bunch of friends were all on vent, but now EVERYONE can hear you, which is nice.

I haven't seen anyone too abusive yet in beta. A couple of "oh, come on, that was terrible", but not "ZOMG NOOB GTFO GO BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH".

[Neftren]

So, do we have any sort of easy way of getting games together with Playgrounders? I'm having a hard time going solo queuing in DotA2... probably because I'm so terribad at it... though I never solo queue LoL either.

[Grif]

So, do we have any sort of easy way of getting games together with Playgrounders? I'm having a hard time going solo queuing in DotA2... probably because I'm so terribad at it... though I never solo queue LoL either.

Have you tried the party system in DotA 2? It lets you queue together in a party of up to five people.

[Tono]

Yes! We get the Bear! He used to be one of my favorite nubstompers. Enemy team doesn't ward? Level 7 roshan! All I need now is Techies and Centaur Warchief, and I will have all my favorite heroes ported over.

[Cynan Machae]

So, do we have any sort of easy way of getting games together with Playgrounders? I'm having a hard time going solo queuing in DotA2... probably because I'm so terribad at it... though I never solo queue LoL either.

I created a "GitP" chat channel, so if anyone from here want to play with other people, it's an easy way to find some others. (to join it just find it in the list by clicking on the "+" icon on top of the channel window)

[tribble]

I think one thing I'm going to enjoy emigrating from LoL is the lack of Runes. Makes it easier and less gimpy to play more than three different picks, like, ever.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

It's gonna have hats!

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[Bayar]

Mind spoilering that image ? It's stretching the screen.

[Keld Denar]

Ok...gah...

I had one good game tonight, and then like, 4 crappy games. I just couldn't do anything. 2 of the games were like, 0-8 before we got our first kill at like, 12 minutes.

I swear, whenever I pug with competant people, I always have decent games that generally go about 20-20 or 25-25, but then we usually JUST barely lose, usually the result of one big team fight. Whenever there is ANY bad player, or new player, or whatever, they are always ALWAYS on my team, often more than one, and that makes the next 40 minutes just miserable.

[Meta]

Got Windows 7 on my mac so time for Dota 2! iNuzzle on steam if you wanna play