Relationship Woes and Advice XX: One X Short of an Awesome Title

[onthetown]

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There were some things about my relationship with my boyfriend that were bothering me or hurting me, as well as some of my own fears. I couldn't get up the courage to talk to him IRL about them, so I wrote him an email and told him twice before he read it that none of it was meant as an attack toward him, it was just me expressing my fears, concerns, etc.

So naturally he's taken the entire thing as an attack and, after telling me it was and I responded something along the lines of, "No, it wasn't meant to be, it was just me telling you my fears and things," he logged offline without speaking another word to me. I've tried calling a couple of times and he just picks up the phone and hangs up immediately to keep it from ringing, which also prevents me from leaving a message.

I'm feeling just great. /sarcasm

[Coidzor]

onthetown:

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Well, with some things... Well, most things as far as I can recall, really, feeling unable to say them in the flesh is kind of a big red warning sign. Well, even just the feeling that there's anything you couldn't say in the flesh at all, is going to lead to at least some level of unpleasant introspection to figure out the why of it.

Good luck, but since it sounds like you have some ability to see him in the flesh, it seems like you may have to give him a chance to calm down and then see him face to face to talk about it, since whatever initially prompted you to send him this message in the first place wasn't going to have anything constructive done by sending him a message in the first place...

[Moonshadow]

So, uh, how do you tell a girl that you understand that if she doesn't want to immediately jump into a relationship (which I don't either), but that you'd still like to go out on dates and generally have fun without it having to get that serious in any short amount of time?

[LaZodiac]

So, uh, how do you tell a girl that you understand that if she doesn't want to immediately jump into a relationship (which I don't either), but that you'd still like to go out on dates and generally have fun without it having to get that serious in any short amount of time?

Tell her that you understand that she doesn't want to get into a deep relationship, but you're still up for hanging out and doing date like activities?

[Feytalist]

Just tease, banter, and act like you know she's into you, but you're still making your mind up. Even if you aren't. Tease her a lil about liking you, toss out very obvious smirks and knowing grins when she does anything that could possibly mean she's interested.

The slow smile is always effective.

I like the idea of going to a social group. I have no clue if Australia does things like meetup.com, but I'm at a university, I could join a club or society (in my spare time...now, therein lies the problem ).

University is like, the best place to meet people. Societies are pretty much meant for that. Even if it is only the local film appreciation club that meets up once every two weeks or whatever, since you mentioned something about little spare time. It only necessitates, like Keld said, for you to go and join one of them.

[term1nally s1ck]

So, uh, how do you tell a girl that you understand that if she doesn't want to immediately jump into a relationship (which I don't either), but that you'd still like to go out on dates and generally have fun without it having to get that serious in any short amount of time?

"Ok, cool, you don't want to jump straight into anything serious. Good call, it's a lot of pressure and stress sometimes. You're still pretty cool, I'm obviously awesome, so we should hang out casually more."

The obvious response is to 'just freaking tell her'.

[onthetown]

onthetown:

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Well, with some things... Well, most things as far as I can recall, really, feeling unable to say them in the flesh is kind of a big red warning sign. Well, even just the feeling that there's anything you couldn't say in the flesh at all, is going to lead to at least some level of unpleasant introspection to figure out the why of it.

Good luck, but since it sounds like you have some ability to see him in the flesh, it seems like you may have to give him a chance to calm down and then see him face to face to talk about it, since whatever initially prompted you to send him this message in the first place wasn't going to have anything constructive done by sending him a message in the first place...

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I was scared of a huge outburst like this. I figured if he read the email we could talk about it in the flesh afterwards.

He threatened to call the police when he finally answered the phone, but none of my email was a threat to his life -- it was honest, valid concerns about our relationship. He told me to never contact him again. My best friend came over (despite it being like 1am) and we sat on the couch and she let me cry on her shoulder.

He called back and was very vindictive... almost manipulative... I hurt him with the email, so I'm at fault and it's up to me to do everything I can to 'win him back' or something. He threatened me with violence ("You're lucky I'm stable enough that this relationship is the only thing you didn't lose," and when I said I knew him well enough that he wouldn't kill somebody he said, well, maybe seriously hurt. I tried to turn it into a joke, like I'm pretty tough eh (I'm 5'2" and he's 5'8" and knows Judo), and it managed to turn the conversation kind of light-hearted, but it seriously scared the crap out of me). He's not willing to listen to apologies. If I want to be with him, I have to try to earn his trust and win him back and whatnot, and then there's a vague hope that we might be able to have something again.

I've given him unconditional love and chances when he's come to me with an apology and asking for forgiveness. I don't like how this is going. I prepared another letter, but I'll be telling it to him over the phone when we talk today -- we decided it would be better to wait a night and cool off before making any major decisions, but he's still removed me as a girlfriend from his Facebook. The letter is basically that I'll work through this with him as a couple, but I won't let myself be manipulated with vague (possibly false) hope if we're "just friends".

At least he's willing to be friends. But this is the love of my life... I thought he would be a little more... receptive? compassionate? to my fears and concerns.

[Moonshadow]

"Ok, cool, you don't want to jump straight into anything serious. Good call, it's a lot of pressure and stress sometimes. You're still pretty cool, I'm obviously awesome, so we should hang out casually more."

The obvious response is to 'just freaking tell her'.

Well, yes, I've tried telling her, but she seems to be a bit shy about it. Admittedly, I haven't pushed and pushed and pushed and pushed for dates because I don't want to come off as pushy and obnoxious, but thats a good thing, imho <<


EDIT: No offence, Onthetown, but he seems like the kind of guy that you should be thankful to get away from. If he's going to react like that after you expressed how you honestly felt, well, I wouldn't be friends with him either. He sounds scary, and you should put your safety first.

[Serpentine]

Onthetown: I'm pretty sure I detected pretty significant warning signs for him in what you've said here before. I'm afraid that, honestly, you'd be best off just letting this relationship go. You will find another love of your life, I promise.

edit: It's not over yet, so I don't know how he pans out, but anyone wondering what a "nice guy" looks like: have a look at Ducky from Pretty in Pink.

[onthetown]

Onthetown: I'm pretty sure I detected pretty significant warning signs for him in what you've said here before. I'm afraid that, honestly, you'd be best off just letting this relationship go. You will find another love of your life, I promise.

edit: It's not over yet, so I don't know how he pans out, but anyone wondering what a "nice guy" looks like: have a look at Ducky from Pretty in Pink.

Have I posted here before about him? I know I did early last year about another boyfriend, but I wasn't sure if I had posted about this one. This is the guy I've been best friends with for 5 years before dating... So it's reeeally hard to let go. I'm hoping he was just really angry last night and has cooled off enough to listen to reason today.

And Moonshadow: This is just... totally not like him. I know he gets agitated about things easily, but he's never totally flown off the handle at me like this before. I've sent him similar emails in the past about things that I wanted to talk about and he's been fine, if a little upset. But never furious...

He really is usually the sweetest guy to me, treats me like a queen. I have no idea why he reacted so almost violently. It's completely new to me.

[Serpentine]

I tried to check, but Playground search has decided it hates me and will only find the 500 error.

[Lissou]

Onthetown:

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If you had asked for advice earlier (or I had seen it earlier, as the case may be), I would have suggested you let him process the email. How long did you wait before contacting him again about it? Some people need a few days to let big discussions sink in before they can answer them. Think how long it took you to work up the courage to write that email when you knew about the issues. Well when he got the email was when he started knowing about the issues, so the whole processing it and wanting to catch up with it and figuring out what to say, etc, is something he needed to catch up with.
If you wanted to discuss it right away, he might have felt pressured, not to mention at a disadvantage since you obviously had time to think about all the issues and what you wanted to say, etc, and he did not. Maybe he just needed some time alone, and the more you contacted him, the more he felt pressured to follow your time, your place, etc for the discussion.
You got to decide when to tell you about everything, it would make sense to let him decide when to get back to you so he can do it in a manner he feels right.

This being said... The most recent development has him acting incredibly manipulative. It could be a response to feeling pressured and controlled and wanting to retain some of the control, but you can't let him be like that either. I suggest you write to him another email (unless you think you'd be able to talk calmly together, but that doesn't seem that likely) saying that you don't apologise for raising issues you felt were actual concerns, however if he felt pressured (all of this assuming you wanted a response early and didn't leave him time to process) you are sorry for that. And that you're willing to let him take the time to think about things and send you a reply and then deal with issues together, but you don't think you need to make all the effort any more than you think he does, because a couple needs to work through their issues together. And if that means that you will need to split up, then so be it, but that's not what you wanted.

That's pretty much the way I would act there... Of course I don't know the whole situation and I don't know what you personally want. But it seems to me this approach would show you if he stays bitchy and manipulative and the relationship is unhealthy and you should run away from it, or if he wakes up from some kind of breakdown and can start talking about things.

Either way, the fact that he normally treats you like a queen, you say, makes me worry that there are other issues there. Maybe he sacrifices himself a lot for you without telling you, and so he resented the fact that you had any reproaches at all. In that case, it's not fair to you because if you don't ask him to sacrifice himself for you and don't even know he's doing it, you can't be blamed for it. I had an ex like that, he would do not what he wanted but what he thought I wanted him to want. I would adapt to the information I had been given and make decisions accordingly, decisions that seemed fair to both of us with the data I had been given... and in his mind I was in his debt, in my mind we were even.
Just because he wouldn't communicate.
If he's like that, the only thing I can recommend is to see a therapist of some sort and work through these problems, because they can be really bad and create a lot of resentment on both sides.

[onthetown]

Onthetown:

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If you had asked for advice earlier (or I had seen it earlier, as the case may be), I would have suggested you let him process the email. How long did you wait before contacting him again about it? Some people need a few days to let big discussions sink in before they can answer them. Think how long it took you to work up the courage to write that email when you knew about the issues. Well when he got the email was when he started knowing about the issues, so the whole processing it and wanting to catch up with it and figuring out what to say, etc, is something he needed to catch up with.
If you wanted to discuss it right away, he might have felt pressured, not to mention at a disadvantage since you obviously had time to think about all the issues and what you wanted to say, etc, and he did not. Maybe he just needed some time alone, and the more you contacted him, the more he felt pressured to follow your time, your place, etc for the discussion.
You got to decide when to tell you about everything, it would make sense to let him decide when to get back to you so he can do it in a manner he feels right.

This being said... The most recent development has him acting incredibly manipulative. It could be a response to feeling pressured and controlled and wanting to retain some of the control, but you can't let him be like that either. I suggest you write to him another email (unless you think you'd be able to talk calmly together, but that doesn't seem that likely) saying that you don't apologise for raising issues you felt were actual concerns, however if he felt pressured (all of this assuming you wanted a response early and didn't leave him time to process) you are sorry for that. And that you're willing to let him take the time to think about things and send you a reply and then deal with issues together, but you don't think you need to make all the effort any more than you think he does, because a couple needs to work through their issues together. And if that means that you will need to split up, then so be it, but that's not what you wanted.

That's pretty much the way I would act there... Of course I don't know the whole situation and I don't know what you personally want. But it seems to me this approach would show you if he stays bitchy and manipulative and the relationship is unhealthy and you should run away from it, or if he wakes up from some kind of breakdown and can start talking about things.

Either way, the fact that he normally treats you like a queen, you say, makes me worry that there are other issues there. Maybe he sacrifices himself a lot for you without telling you, and so he resented the fact that you had any reproaches at all. In that case, it's not fair to you because if you don't ask him to sacrifice himself for you and don't even know he's doing it, you can't be blamed for it. I had an ex like that, he would do not what he wanted but what he thought I wanted him to want. I would adapt to the information I had been given and make decisions accordingly, decisions that seemed fair to both of us with the data I had been given... and in his mind I was in his debt, in my mind we were even.
Just because he wouldn't communicate.
If he's like that, the only thing I can recommend is to see a therapist of some sort and work through these problems, because they can be really bad and create a lot of resentment on both sides.

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We were both online when he read the email, unfortunately. So it exploded pretty quickly.

We were talking civilly, but when I tried to talk about working it out he would pretend to ignore me and say, "Oh, I'm listening," when I asked if he was. He seems to be getting quite a rise out of being in control, here, whether it be consciously or not.

The thing about not communicating makes so much sense, though. Just yesterday (before the fight) we were watching movies and I asked him what he wanted to do, and he would only agree to something after I had made a suggestion. It's really common with him, too, that he only does what I want to do and he never really communicates any suggestions or ideas of his own unless it's very important.

My mom doesn't want him coming over anymore for a few weeks, whether or not we go back to being in a relationship. She's scared of what he'll do if she leaves him alone with me. I'm almost 21 so normally I would resent her telling me who I can have over or not (I pay rent and basically just exist in the house as a tenant, except for getting fed dinner by the mother unit), but this time... I think I'm actually going to side with her for the time being...

[Mono Vertigo]

@Onthetown:

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Huh, yeah. That's pretty bad. Your SO isn't supposed to physically threaten you... or threaten you seriously at all. It doesn't matter if it isn't "like him", the point is he still did it, and either he hid that part of him all along, either he changed for the worse.
Yep.
Seconding what everyone else said. Sorry.

[Keld Denar]

You know onthetown...there are other guys out there who aren't crazy manipulative passive-agressive boops. I know you feel attached to this one, but are you actually considering "whether or not we go back to being in a relationship."? Cause yea...

No sense in throwing good time after bad. No investment is so absolute that its worth investing a penny or a second of your time beyond what is useful. Not a car, not a house, not a business, not a boyfriend. Cut and run girl, cut and run. If he doesn't like being cut out, well...thats why they invented Non-Contact Orders (aka Restraining Orders). I can tell you from personal experience that they are not difficult at all to obtain. About an hour to fill out the paperwork, and then another hour or so sitting in the courtroom for your case number to talk to the judge. The only thing I can recommend that'll make that process easier, should you decide to go down it, is to sit down NOW and make a list of dates, and if you can times, that he's done things to make you feel threatened or uncomfortable. Document document document!

[onthetown]

No breakage, guys, but progress is good enough for now and I'm not hesitant to leave if I feel threatened again.

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We talked. He said he was scared of me, to which my reply was something like, "You threatened to kill me and you are scared of me?" I told him and made it very clear that if he doesn't want to be in a relationship, fine, but I'm not going to run circles around him while he sits back and manipulates me on the premise that we might get back together; if we did get back together, I would make every effort to fix trust issues as long as he put in the effort as well.

We both agreed that we both acted poorly yesterday, and after talking for awhile decided to keep going in our relationship but to slow it down to a snail's pace. Basically cuddly friends is the vibe I'm getting, and I'm fine with that since it'll give us time to rebuild things.

We're not going to see each other physically until Friday. My work schedule is weird this week, and gaming is on Friday, so we'll be around other people and won't have to deal exclusively with each other. But we'll still talk online and on the phone (though I'm not sure whether I should keep up my Nightly Call routine...).

My nerves are winding down and I don't feel threatened anymore, but I will leave him if he says anything about hurting me or killing me again. It helps that, even going through all of this, we were still friends if nothing else. So I know I'll still have one of my best friends in the end (unless something really crazy happens), and I feel free enough that I don't feel trapped in the relationship.

Which is going to calm down a lot of my insecurities about our future together, coincidentally, so there will likely be no more emails.

My mind works in strange ways, I think. But I feel good about this and, since we're still a couple, I'll work with him to get through this. If we were just friends, I would be sitting back and saying, "If you decide you want to ask me out again, go ahead. I'm not going to jump through hoops for you to win your affection again."

And, if there are any more emails, I'll try a lot harder to make them a little... er... less abrasive so that we can avoid this sort of explosion again. I know how to be brutally honest without sounding like I'm attacking somebody (which I still don't think I was, but that's beside the point), but he's never acted that way to my honesty before. It was a lot to process in the course of one night, I guess.

Hopefully solved, though I'll update after Friday. Thanks for all of your advice, too -- I know I didn't dump him like the general consensus was, but it gave me the courage to tell him very straightforward that this time is the last time for threats and that we need to work through this like civilized people or leave. *hugs to all*

Edit: And I fully expect just about everybody to disagree with this choice, but if you knew me IRL you'd know that I'm serious when I say this is the first and last time I'll let myself be threatened or manipulated. I'm pretty strong-willed and hard-headed, and after my last ex I'm not scared to show it anymore.

[Keld Denar]

Just be careful, ok? We don't want you to get hurt, emotionally or physically.

[onthetown]

Just be careful, ok? We don't want you to get hurt, emotionally or physically.

I'll do my best.

[BSW]

Ordinarily I wouldn't really ask for advice, but I find myself in something of a quandary and I cannot seem to resolve it on my own. I'll explain.

For the past five years I have not dated, or even really been interested in dating. The first year of that time, I made the decision that I didn't want to get into a relationship because I knew that I would be moving away from the city where I was living in order to attend law school. Then, at the beginning of law school, I decided that I couldn't avoid the distraction. By the time I was into my third year at school, I found that I didn't really have much desire to seek out such things anymore so since I began my actual career, I haven't even tried to date anyone.

Towards the beginning of law school, I became friends with a girl named Sonia. We didn't become particularly close, but we did regularly talk and occasionally go out in groups. We've always had fun, and she's one of the few people who actually gets me to relax and cut loose. It was always a casual friendship and I never even considered dating her. Back in March, Sonia started working for the same office where I work. Initially, we worked in the same division (I have since been promoted to another division) so we naturally started seeing each other much more frequently than we had in the past.

I'm not really sure why, but a few weeks ago I began to reconsider my decision to eschew romantic entanglements and at the same time, I started thinking of Sonia differently.

The thing is, I'm really torn on whether or not attempting to pursue her is a good idea (or even if I actually want to become involved in a relationship at all). I'm definitely attracted to her physically, and I like spending time with her.

There are a couple of major difficulties with pursuing such a relationship. The first of these is the fact that we do work together (and since we work such long hours, virtually all of the people that either of us socializes with are coworkers). Office gossip could be a problem, but since dating within the office isn't forbidden, I'm willing to put up with it. The second difficulty is the fact that we've been friends for so long (a little more than three years now). I've dated friends in the past, and I've both managed to maintain some of those friendships afterward and have them be unsalvageable. It's... a concern. Again, it's a risk that I think I'd be willing to take.

The major problem, though, is that I'm not sure if she'd be interested. There have been times when I definitely felt like she was trying to hint that I should ask her out (i.e., describing her "type" in conversation with friends. That type being pretty close to a description of myself). But then there are other times when I've gotten the impression that she doesn't think of me like that at all. At least not as a potential match for her, anyway. For example, on Saturday night I overheard her talking to another mutual friend/coworker about what a fun and nice guy I am and that she wants to find a nice girl for me (I was sitting right next to her at the time, but she thought I was asleep during our cab ride home from the bar).

If we didn't work together, I think that I might go ahead and brave the risk of rejection and ask her out. But the fact that we work together really does compound that risk. And even if I do decide to pursue her romantically, I have no idea how to raise the subject with her without it being completely awkward.

What should I do?

[Orran]

This is just an apology to someone with whom I really screwed things up, it's not meant for advice or criticism, I just need to post it somewhere and this feels like the most natural place. That said, if for some reason you feel like responding, feel free, perhaps you have the pearl of wisdom I'm missing?

Louise,
I've apologized a lot of times in the past, to a lot of people, for a lot of things. Just like all those times, I mean every word of it, and sincerely intend to redeem myself. Those other times I was stupid, I didn't realize how easy it is to fall back into the cycle I had presumed myself out of, thinking that because I had seen the error of my ways, that was the end of it.
The truth is that real redemption means a continual struggle to crawl out of a mire that has no real end, there is no success or end in sight, and yet if you want to avoid dragging people into the mud with you, you have to struggle and crawl and not look back.
I dragged you through all kinds of ****, the kind of **** that im still going through now and I'm still getting myself into. I did all that just so I could feel a human connection, even though the way I acted would suggest that I had no such desires. That's kinda true, I both want and fear that connection, constantly pushing away anyone if I start to let them get close. I think a lot of people have that problem, but not everybody plays with the feelings of someone as emotionally vulnerable as themselves because of it.
For that I am truly sorry.
Earlier I said that I was stupid in my previous apologies. I am still stupid, as is everyone in some ways, however this time, I won't be stupid enough to screw you over more by being in your life again. If I could find a way to apologize to you, help you understand the mistakes I've made, and the way I felt about you, while trusting myself not to ask forgiveness and the chance to screw you over again, I would take it in a heartbeat.
There is no way I could have a healthy relationship with you at this stage in my life, and for that reason I wish you all the luck with your new boyfriend, even if he is a massive tool. It's also why I haven't sent you this message, and instead have posted it elsewhere, I at least need to put this out somewhere, perhaps you'll see it somehow and it will give you some perspective, but if you do, don't mention it to me, I'd rather not know.

Orran

[Coidzor]

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At least he's willing to be friends. But this is the love of my life... I thought he would be a little more... receptive? compassionate? to my fears and concerns.

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Sometimes life/fate/!? has a way of forcing us to wake up and smell the roses. :/

Some people just aren't worth the time to think about them, much less love.

If it's helped lose me multiple girlfriends, it should help you realize something for yourself once you get to that place.

It hurts, but life is moving forward and moving forward lets time pass and our fortitude to increase and our wounds to fade.

[Syka]

Onthetown, just make sure if it ever DOES happen again, that you DO make sure it's the last time. I know how easy it is to keep going back and back and back. But, at the same time, he threatened you not just physically but with death. I mean...whoa. You might not think it's him, but it obviously is a threat he can make.

I'm not saying break up, I'm not saying he would do it. I'm saying just be careful and don't keep on rose colored glasses. I've been with Oz for four years, and even now we've had a few incidents (with both of us) where we've had to say "This is not something I can accept in my relationship. If it happens again, we can't continue." We love each other and want this relationship to work, but there is a level where it becomes unhealthy and you have to watch out for that. NEITHER of you should be concerned about their reactions to the point where you keep an issue under wraps.






ION, four years this week. o.o Goal: move in together before the same time next year, lol. Granted, this is entirely dependent upon me getting a big girl job, but I'd hope I'd be there within a year...

[John Cribati]

@BSW: The best advice I would give is to tell her how you feel and let her decide whether she wants to have a deeper relationship. She's a good friend, and she'll listen.

If she rejects you, accept it and continue as friends. I cannot stress this enough: You are no longer allowed to bring it up in this situation. She can, just not you.

If she accepts, take it slowly. It's probably best to do the same kinds of things you'd do as friends (dinners, parties, whatever) for the first few months; except now there's a chance for more intimate hugging and kissing, the occasional gift of flowers or snuggling on the couch, what have you.

As pessimistic as this sounds, take precautions in case the relationship goes sour, so that you can salvage the friendship. Don't pressure her; let her decide how far she wants to go with you.

[onthetown]

Thanks everyone And it will be the last time. I have little tolerance for abuse, mental or physical, after my last boyfriend. What little tolerance I have is good for this one time because I know it's not like him.

I'm going to be housesitting without internet for a few days -- just popped home to see if I had gotten any calls while I was gone -- so I might as well update now instead of after Friday.

We went on a sort of spontaneous date today. Yesterday I called him and asked him if he wanted to go down to the waterfront for a walk or something. It was a little awkward at first, but then we got talking about Star Trek (I only saw half of the DS9 episode yesterday so I wanted to know what had happened, and he's the DS9 guru), and then gaming, and before I knew it almost 3 hours had passed and we had been walking around the wharf, sitting in a restaurant, and just going on and on about geek stuff. We were acting as if we were best friends again, joking and all.

When I dropped him off at home, he said he just wanted to put the whole incident behind us, and we left on a really good note. We didn't bring up the "incident" the entire time during the day (how could we? Trek is a bigger priority ), and neither of us were spiteful or grudging, so I'm really optimistic.

So, yay. *disappears back out to the chicken farm for the rest of the week*

[Serpentine]

Did the actual problems that started all this actually get dealt with?

[Alleine]

So I just slogged through this thread to see if the question had come up here yet, but it hasn't and know this is probably a staple topic of these threads.

How do I go about initiating a conversation with someone?

The specifics are that there's this totally cute girl in one of my classes this semester and for the first time since starting college I'm actually feeling kinda interested/excited by someone. The past couple of years I was simply not interested in anyone that way and was perfectly happy with that. Now I seem to be heading back into it quite unexpectedly. This is not a problem as such.
The main problems, as I see it, are that she sits in the very front of the class, and I sit in the very back with two of my friends(which incidentally gives me a pretty nice view). Also, I tend to leave right after class because I ride with someone to and from class, and would prefer not to keep them waiting for too long. This means that A) I won't be talking to her during class, and deciding to sit up front just seems like it'd come across as too obvious or trying too hard, and B) I can come up with an excellent excuse to chicken out and not talk to her. Luckily for me I will not be able to use this excuse on Tuesday next week because my carpool has had his class canceled then.

I guess I'm just looking for suggestions since I don't exactly do the whole "strike up a convo with a random stranger" all that often.

Oh, and just some other things I've noticed that have alternately given me hope that she would at least not go "why is this random dude trying to talk to me" and also bummed me out. A few times while she was turned around to listen to people who were participating in the lecture, I'd look at her and she would almost slyly look my way before smiling and facing the front of the room again. I have no idea if she actually was looking at me or if I'm just making this up to give myself hope. The bummer side is that a different guy in the class who seems to embody at least a few negative traits of the stereotypical nerd sat next to her during the last class and she was at least being polite, though from the back of the room I couldn't exactly tell. The flip side of that is that she seemed to get out of class in a hurry, and he had to run to catch up with her outside and a few minutes later I saw him sitting by himself. I know these could all just be nothing, but I'm not exactly the most savvy suave guy around.

Man that's a lot of text.

Anyone have any suggestions?

[Heliomance]

Try sitting up front for a bit, without trying to talk to her at first. Just make like you randomly decided to change seats, assuming that's allowed. After a few days, it won't seem so obvious/awkward if you try and strike up a conversation.
If she asks why you changed, say you were having trouble reading the board or something, take it as a good sign that she's interested enough to care that you moved, and take the opportunity provided by her starting the conversation.

[Arcane_Snowman]

Try sitting up front for a bit, without trying to talk to her at first.

By the same token, if you catch her doing the glance, smile, look away thing again, then you have imperical data that it is infact you that she's smiling at.

[Alleine]

Try sitting up front for a bit, without trying to talk to her at first. Just make like you randomly decided to change seats, assuming that's allowed. After a few days, it won't seem so obvious/awkward if you try and strike up a conversation.
If she asks why you changed, say you were having trouble reading the board or something, take it as a good sign that she's interested enough to care that you moved, and take the opportunity provided by her starting the conversation.

Ehhh, the problem I have with that is that it seems pretty weird to me. I mean, just ditching my friends to sit near a cute girl? Kinda understandable, except I don't think I've ever shown real interest in a girl the whole time I've known them. I just feel like it'd get me weird looks. That's definitely a good idea though, I'll have to give it more thought. Thanks!

[Serpentine]

The time constraints are tricky... It doesn't leave you much room to actually strike up a conversation. You could try to grab her on your (plural) way out, maybe comment on something she's wearing or somesuch. Maybe try to get up as she's walking past, and say something about the class, and take it from there. If you just don't have the time, I think you may just have to bite the bullet and see if she'll get lunch or a coffee with you or something.
My default for friend-making has always been "come 'round for tea!", but that was because 1. my housemates were big tea drinkers so we had a ridiculous variety of teas, and 2. my home was close to the uni and on pretty much everyone's way home, so it was convenient.