Relationship Woes and Advice XX: One X Short of an Awesome Title

[term1nally s1ck]

Ehh, I have no strong opinion one way or another. I feel like it's more important with someone who is important to you, but don't feel like it needs to be limited to that.

Either way, it's definitely something you shouldn't be ashamed of.

[Keld Denar]

Just because its special doesn't mean you should be ashamed of it. That was the point people were trying to make. There is the perception by some that "sex is bad", and that thinking about it and doing it is likewise "bad", and that getting an erection is "shameful".

Yes. Sex is special. Sex with someone you care about is amazingly special, intimate, and deep. Its STILL not "wrong", "dirty", or "shameful". Those are the days of "Lie back and think of England", where it was bad to enjoy sex, and it was tolerated only because it was vital for procreation. Guess what? My girlfriend, who I love and care about, and who loves and cares about me, loves sex. She is not a "slut" or "dirty" or any of those negative things. I'm not a "pervert" because I like to have sex with her. She just loves being intimate with me, and I with her, and we have no regrets about this time we spend together. In fact, we enjoy the hell out of it. Because its awesome. Which is what Glass Mouse was explaining.

[Coidzor]

You're all talking about free love and sex being totally awesome and something to indulge in at every opportunity*. Am I the only one here who believes in sex as something very special that should ideally only happen as part of a committed, loving, long term relationship?

No, thinking sex is awesome and something that it is appropriate to desire and pursue is not mutually exclusive with believing that it has a context.

However, it's needlessly judgmental to expect everyone to have the exact same contexts that it is appropriate for them, and needlessly condescending to expect to have to spell out to others to be responsible and true to themselves and their beliefs (at least the ones that aren't actively self-harmful) and respectful to their partners like a decent human being when we're already doing so when it becomes apparent that moral advice may be necessary as well.

This was the post that stuck out most to me, but there were others along the same lines.

Hell, that post has little to nothing to do with free love. Unless you're talking about the idea that people have agency over their sexual selves and some level of choice in the matter.

[Glass Mouse]

This was the post that stuck out most to me, but there were others along the same lines.

Hmm. I suck at communicating, obviously. Or went too much overboard, for the point's sake.

I wasn't trying to advocate promiscuity or other "GO HAVE TONS OF SEX NOW NOW NOW", just trying to highlight that sex is indeed awesome, however you choose to espress and enjoy it... and can be awesome on a distance, and as mere flights of thoughts, too.

In Birch's case, it sounded like it's a rather big part of his life to feel attraction to beautiful women. In that case, YES he should enjoy those feelings of attraction as much as he can. It's fun, and satisfying, to notice something nice, however you react to it. And a gazillion times better than to feel ashamed.
"Enjoying your sexdrive" can be just "hey, that was nice to see! *moves on*".

Apparantly, I was trying to communicate much broader meanings than the words I chose would let me. My bad.


Incidentally, you're not alone Helio. I couldn't imagine having sex with someone I didn't care deeply for. But I will still look, and fantasize, and enjoy both, even if I only actually share that part of me with my boyfriend.


Edit: I love how other people can explain my own post much better than I can. Thanks, guys

[Heliomance]

Up to a certain point, I agree with you, and when unattached I like to look and enjoy the female form with only the mildest twinges of guilt (mostly from wondering where the line of objectification is and whether I'm crossing it).

When I have a girlfriend, though, it's entirely different. Looking at porn or even looking too much at other women feels like cheating, then, if only in my mind. It seems utterly wrong to fantasise about women other than my girlfriend, and with my views on sex as the ultimate expression of love, it feels wrong to fantasise about the girl in question before we've reached that point.

Sex is not inherently bad, wrong, or shameful. But it is very, very easy to cheapen it to the point where it means nothing, and that, I believe, is wrong.

[LaZodiac]

Sex is not inherently bad, wrong, or shameful. But it is very, very easy to cheapen it to the point where it means nothing, and that, I believe, is wrong.

This all reminds me of a song, but I cannot for the life of me remember the name. The line it reminds me of specificly is "Sex is natural, sex is fun!" and "Not everybody does it, but everybody shoould!"

Anyone remember that song? Sorry for the minor derail.

[Qaera]

In roome lo'er Bee, eight and five score, at thee time of the Most High, aboutte 2:47ish, to discusse thee producttion of thine gymnasium's lit'ry magazine.

Teach: Hey, so, we need to discuss advertising.
My Crush (last years Editor-in-Chief): About how much money do we have to work with?
Teach: About seven hundred bones.
Me: Can we sell the bones for money?
Everyone: *beat*
Laugh track~
Teach:
Crush: Ah, I love you, man. (I forget the exact wording)
Me:

If only they knew how much it meant to me~

~ ♅

[Objection]

I don't know if I'd call it wrong, but it certainly seems dumb. That is, assuming that sex is something special, why would anyone want to treat it as mundane?

[Glass Mouse]

Up to a certain point, I agree with you, and when unattached I like to look and enjoy the female form with only the mildest twinges of guilt (mostly from wondering where the line of objectification is and whether I'm crossing it).

When I have a girlfriend, though, it's entirely different. Looking at porn or even looking too much at other women feels like cheating, then, if only in my mind. It seems utterly wrong to fantasise about women other than my girlfriend, and with my views on sex as the ultimate expression of love, it feels wrong to fantasise about the girl in question before we've reached that point.

Sex is not inherently bad, wrong, or shameful. But it is very, very easy to cheapen it to the point where it means nothing, and that, I believe, is wrong.

Interesting. I like talking with my boyfriend about who and what we find attractive outside of each other. It's a fun subject, and it gives us a better understanding of each other. I think I'd miss it if we couldn't do that (though of course if we both were like you, we probably wouldn't miss it at all).

I think part of the reason I'm defending the "don't feel ashamed!" position so much is because I used to be insanely jealous, and I know how much guilt and repression can mess things up. I've finally gotten to a point where I can let a little go and not feel like a horrible person for finding a passing stranger handsome, so I will.
Who knows, perhaps I'll swing back to 110% monogamy (in your sense) and be happy that way some day

Anyone remember that song? Sorry for the minor derail.

A quick google search turned up this.

[Coidzor]

^: Nah, that's the one constant, I've found, regardless of the greater context. Guilt is never healthy.

...Kinda makes me wish I knew of a better tool in child-rearing to be honest, since a lot of conventional methods seem to either rely or have too high of a chance of inflicting that kind of thing in use...

Then again, maybe that's just the nature of humans, traumatizing everyone around us to a certain extent just by existing and the trial of life and the strength of our spirits being shown by overcoming the constant merry-go-round of trauma...

I don't know if I'd call it wrong, but it certainly seems dumb. That is, assuming that sex is something special, why would people want to treat it as mundane?

Duality, mostly. ... <_< >_> ... I think... is... a bit complicated.

It both is incredibly mundane in... multiple senses of the word and also has the capacity to be incredibly special based upon our higher consciousness, spiritual dimension, and emotional complexity. The majority of multicellular life has it, even if its with itself, and it's what keeps the world going as it were.

Putting it up on too much of a pedestal and overly romanticizing it or demonizing it, or really any move away from being pragmatic about what it is in most contexts and how it is context sensitive, generally leads to skewed development of people and having to work just to do away with societal level sexual baggage in addition to personal and family level baggage.

At the same time, however, ignoring that there is an emotional and, if one chooses to use such words, spiritual, component to sexuality is just as unhealthy for the psyche as attempting to repress sexuality.

However, there's a lot of variance in how people approach sex and relationships' emotionality and spirituality, as an example, just think back to the back and forth when Lissou was questioning the basis for relationships that were begun without already being definitivelyhead over heels in love.

[term1nally s1ck]

A man grows up in a poor family, but every year, on his birthday, they go to a really nice restaurant and he gets his favorite meal, even though it's really expensive.

When he grows up, he gets a high paying job, and can afford to go eat his favorite meal every week. It still tastes just as good.

Only if you feel that you get less from it by having it on a less special basis, should you not. And you should consider whether the trade between the value of each experience and the regularity of them is worth it.

[LaZodiac]

A quick google search turned up this.

Thank you Mousey, my Google Fu is weak.

A man grows up in a poor family, but every year, on his birthday, they go to a really nice restaurant and he gets his favorite meal, even though it's really expensive.

When he grows up, he gets a high paying job, and can afford to go eat his favorite meal every week. It still tastes just as good.

Only if you feel that you get less from it by having it on a less special basis, should you not. And you should consider whether the trade between the value of each experience and the regularity of them is worth it.

This is a very correct sounding thing.

[Heliomance]

A man grows up in a poor family, but every year, on his birthday, they go to a really nice restaurant and he gets his favorite meal, even though it's really expensive.

When he grows up, he gets a high paying job, and can afford to go eat his favorite meal every week. It still tastes just as good.

Only if you feel that you get less from it by having it on a less special basis, should you not. And you should consider whether the trade between the value of each experience and the regularity of them is worth it.

The metaphor doesn't apply. I'm not arguing that regular sex makes it any less special, I'm arguing that it's the relationship with the other person that makes it. Having sex every week - or more - with someone that you love, that you can be truly intimate with - well, I've not experienced it myself, but I don't imagine that that's going to get old. Whereas having sex without the emotional connection - that's just not the same meal, not at all.

I apologise for my wanton cruelty to the dash in the above.

[Coidzor]

This is a very correct sounding thing.

A-are you getting at something here? You'll probably need to be a bit more firm if you are.

[LaZodiac]

A-are you getting at something here? You'll probably need to be a bit more firm if you are.

Yha, sorry, my thoughts were kinda half into what I was writing.

Basically what I'm saying is that if you think something will be special and important to you, that is true. If you think only doing something occasionaly keeps it special, that is also true.

[Coidzor]

Yha, sorry, my thoughts were kinda half into what I was writing.

Basically what I'm saying is that if you think something will be special and important to you, that is true. If you think only doing something occasionaly keeps it special, that is also true.

But... that's what he said. ...I had thought. Isn't it?

[term1nally s1ck]

Special meal with family on birthday = Sex in a relationship with a loved one.

Meal every week = Sex on a more casual basis.

The metaphor is valid. You should not feel bad about it, unless doing so actually lessens the experience in general, and then you must consider the trade-off between regularity and value. Maybe when he eats every week, it no longer tastes as good without the family and birthday. If that's the case, he'll stop eating it every week. If it still tastes just as good every time, he'll keep eating every week.

[LaZodiac]

But... that's what he said. ...I had thought. Isn't it?

It is, but I am agreeing with him.

Sorry, I'm not good at this. I'm always unsure of what to say in this thread, and the LGBTA one (which for some reason I thought this was for a moment)

[Objection]

Special meal with family on birthday = Sex in a relationship with a loved one.

Meal every week = Sex on a more casual basis.

The metaphor is valid. You should not feel bad about it, unless doing so actually lessens the experience in general, and then you must consider the trade-off between regularity and value. Maybe when he eats every week, it no longer tastes as good without the family and birthday. If that's the case, he'll stop eating it every week. If it still tastes just as good every time, he'll keep eating every week.

Are you implying that being in a relationship means less sex? Or am I looking too much into this?

[Glass Mouse]

Sorry, I'm not good at this. I'm always unsure of what to say in this thread, and the LGBTA one (which for some reason I thought this was for a moment)

Heh, I do that all the time. And I don't even post in the LGBTA thread XD

[Mutant Sheep]

Are you implying that being in a relationship means less sex? Or am I looking too much into this?

Think your looking a bit too much into it. I think...
Wait, what thread is this? Why am I even here? *walks out confused, getting lost in the hallway again*
Edit: I think I just killed the entire sub-forum of Friendly Banter.

[term1nally s1ck]

Are you implying that being in a relationship means less sex? Or am I looking too much into this?

I'm implying that if you only have sex in a committed relationship, you'll have less sex over the course of your life than if you are willing to have sex on a more casual basis. Which seems pretty obvious...you'll have the same amount of sex in relationships, and also have some 'extra'

[Coidzor]

It is, but I am agreeing with him.

Sorry, I'm not good at this. I'm always unsure of what to say in this thread, and the LGBTA one (which for some reason I thought this was for a moment)

Your choice of "sounding thing" to end the post there did seem to imply there was something you wanted to elaborate further on, or some flaw you were seeing there, yeah. *shrug*

Things are clarified now though.

Edit: I think I just killed the entire sub-forum of Friendly Banter.

Dinnae worry, lad. We'll get you back with yer lickle buddy sean in nae time at all.

[Serpentine]

My view of sex - note, all within are generalisations. If something specific doesn't apply to you, it applies to someone else:
Sex is fun and, when done with care, healthy. Sex is fun regardless of emotional attachment. Sex is not a bad thing, and people should be allowed to have as much sex as they want (consentually, of course) without being made to feel bad about it.
Sex is fun, but it's not a big deal. If you don't want to have sex in any context, then don't. That's your choice, and you shouldn't be made to feel bad about it.
Sex is intimate and chemical-producing and loving and beautiful*. It is an amazing thing to share with a loved one, and an amazing way to express your love for someone. It helps maintain a relationship and keep it healthy.
Sex is a way to express your love for someone, but it is not the only way. Even if you're in a relationship but you don't want to have sex yet, that doesn't mean you have a bad relationship or you're a bad person. See above re. if you don't want to, don't.
The fact that you've had sex before - even lots of times - doesn't make making love less "special". It's doing it with the person you love that makes it special.

So yeah. If you don't feel comfortable having sex outside of a loving relationship, that's fine. Don't do it. But you don't get to judge others for enjoying it in and outside a commited relationship. They aren't "cheapening" it. They're enjoying it, how they want to, and the "loving" sex is still just as special and loving.



*Well... For a given value.

edit: LaZodiac, I knew what you meant straight away, and I was pretty much just skimming.

[Trellan]

Not really needing advice; more of a rant to blow off steam. I'm getting really sick of people telling me I should cheat on my girlfriend. I'm living in Japan at the moment, and it's ridiculously easy for foreigners to hook up with girls over here. Of course, this leads to all kinds of amazed and slightly judgemental looks when I tell people I'm in a committed relationship with a Japanese girl. These looks are almost always followed by a suggestion that I should "try out some other options" or something of the like. Some people just avoid the euphemisms and tell me I should have sex with other women. I get this from everybody. Friends, coworkers, random people I just met, foreigners, Japanese people, people who know my girlfriend, people who don't... I swear, I want to punch the next person who kind of smirks like they're explaining something obvious to a child and tells me to go cheat on my girlfriend.

There, that feels a little better.

[LaZodiac]

Not really needing advice; more of a rant to blow off steam. I'm getting really sick of people telling me I should cheat on my girlfriend. I'm living in Japan at the moment, and it's ridiculously easy for foreigners to hook up with girls over here. Of course, this leads to all kinds of amazed and slightly judgemental looks when I tell people I'm in a committed relationship with a Japanese girl. These looks are almost always followed by a suggestion that I should "try out some other options" or something of the like. Some people just avoid the euphemisms and tell me I should have sex with other women. I get this from everybody. Friends, coworkers, random people I just met, foreigners, Japanese people, people who know my girlfriend, people who don't... I swear, I want to punch the next person who kind of smirks like they're explaining something obvious to a child and tells me to go cheat on my girlfriend.

There, that feels a little better.

....WHAT.

I know you don't want advice, but I'd actually recomend finding, if anything, more adult friends. These guys seem...wow.

[Coidzor]

Sounds almost like they don't want you setting down roots there.

[Sarco_Phage]

I know you don't want advice, but I'd actually recomend finding, if anything, more adult friends. These guys seem...wow.

Happens where I'm from, too. It's not a matter of finding more adult friends, it's a matter of finding a more adult society. Good luck with that.

[Moonshadow]

I dunno if the sex discussion is still going on, but here is my 5 cents worth.

Sex to me has never been something that I could just do on a casual basis. In my mind, the idea of being a player who could sleep with a different girl every night just felt very wrong to me. I've only ever been intimate with 2 people, and I was in a relationship with both of them, but after my last relationship... well, something happened. I guess it's because I came away from the 2nd relationship feeling like that the only reason she had been with me was because of the sex, and now the idea of it just makes me sick. To me, it's akin to a loss of innocence in a way, because it feels like it's lost its magic to me now.

This actually scares me a little bit, because it is now a source of worry to me. I mean, I still want to have a relationship with a girl, because I'd like to be with someone whose company I enjoy, and who I can have fun with and confide in and just generally have a good time, but I feel like I have lost all confidence to be sexual (Funnily enough though, I've gained a lot of confidence in other areas since then).

I don't know if I've even made any sense, but this is something that troubles me a lot, and I have no idea how to work through it

[Maralais]

Spoiler

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Some (I'm tempted to say many, but I have no basis for that) women dislike porn because they're insecure and have a hard time differentiating porn from reality (or believe that men do). If you look at Jenna Jameson, then at yourself, then at the action of porn, then at what you're willing to try out, you're bound to start feeling insecure.
Not sure what to do about this except giving those women self-esteem pills. *shrug*

Spoiler

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I'm pretty sure men have similar reactions when they see black people on porn, then they... I don't know, get over it?That was my case anyway.

When I have a girlfriend, though, it's entirely different. Looking at porn or even looking too much at other women feels like cheating, then, if only in my mind. It seems utterly wrong to fantasise about women other than my girlfriend, and with my views on sex as the ultimate expression of love, it feels wrong to fantasise about the girl in question before we've reached that point.

Well, this is only my opinion, but, I think fantasising and sex are different by their nature. Sex is for two people, and it thus usually requires a level of intimacy for the aforementioned two. But just like everything else between two people, many people set their ethical boundaries different, hence the one night stands and all. And I mostly agree with you about sex having a special value when made with someone intimate(in that case I prefer to call it making love).

But fantasising, that's just you. You, your sexual energy, your (this will seem a bit hammy)desires. Fantasising just helps you release that energy, it's in your head and nobody's hurt. And just because you fantasise about something doesn't mean you would do it when you had the chance. I'm pretty sure most men fantasise about having a threesome, but I'm pretty sure they would at least have doubts about doing it if they suddenly got the chance. Same goes for fantasising other girls.

What I'm trying to say is, sex and fantasising have completely different aspects, what they are about is completely different, and even if that wasn't the case, fantasising about something doesn't mean you'd do it if you could, it just means you find it hot, which is quite natural.