Advise Requested: Item Creation without XP

[Randrew]

I play a few different 3.5 campaigns with the same group, each with a different DM. Not wanting to bother with the bookkeeping involved with experience points, we've opted to simply level the party when the DM decides this would be story-appropriate. We have never run into any problems with this until now.

In one of the games, I am considering switching my class over to Artificer in a few levels. What should we do about XP costs for item creation? No character in any of our games has item creation feats, so we've never had to think about it before and since I'm the one rocking the boat, I thought I'd come looking for any advise anyone has to offer.

Options that have occurred to me:

1) Do all item creation utilizing only the Artificer craft reserve. I don't like this option because it would prevent non-Artificers from creating magical items unless we also created craft reserves for them (which is, of course, doable).

2) Eliminate the XP costs. This is certainly possible, since other resources, such as wealth or raw material, are limited.

3) Abstain taking a level in exchange for the XP. I hardly need to explain why I find this solution lacking. One would soon be trailing behind the rest of the party even faster than item creators often tend to, not to mention the inability to create for that first level until the XP was freed up.

Do you have any other takes on the situation or modifications of the above plans? You assistance is greatly appreciated.

[Crake]

I play a few different 3.5 campaigns with the same group, each with a different DM. Not wanting to bother with the bookkeeping involved with experience points, we've opted to simply level the party when the DM decides this would be story-appropriate. We have never run into any problems with this until now.

In one of the games, I am considering switching my class over to Artificer in a few levels. What should we do about XP costs for item creation? No character in any of our games has item creation feats, so we've never had to think about it before and since I'm the one rocking the boat, I thought I'd come looking for any advise anyone has to offer.

Options that have occurred to me:

1) Do all item creation utilizing only the Artificer craft reserve. I don't like this option because it would prevent non-Artificers from creating magical items unless we also created craft reserves for them (which is, of course, doable).

2) Eliminate the XP costs. This is certainly possible, since other resources, such as wealth or raw material, are limited.

3) Abstain taking a level in exchange for the XP. I hardly need to explain why I find this solution lacking. One would soon be trailing behind the rest of the party even faster than item creators often tend to, not to mention the inability to create for that first level until the XP was freed up.

Do you have any other takes on the situation or modifications of the above plans? You assistance is greatly appreciated.

theres always the silly trick of getting a friend to level drain you just after you level up, voluntarily failing the save to lose a level, which puts you at half xp needed for that level.

Then spend that xp, and get another friend to cast restoration on you. Just make sure you spend the XP before restoration is no longer able to restore the lost level

[Elric VIII]

You could keep track of the normal exp needed to bridge levels and track the percent of that exp the charater used for crafting, then have the DM level him up a certain number of encounters/sessions/days later based on that number.

For Example:

Let's assume that you're a level 1 PC and the DM levels you up based on combats/encounters passed.

This means you need 1000exp to hit level 2, normally.

If your character crafts 250 exp worth of items, he has used 25% of the normal exp needed to level from 1-2. Effectively, to level from 1-2 he needs 125% of the exp the other characters would need.

The DM can keep him from levelling up until he has completed 25% more encounters than the rest of the party had completed when they leveled.

For level 3, assume that he will level up at the normal time (since crafters catch up in levels for a while) and repeat the process, but record the encounters/level starting from his level-up, rather than the rest of the partys'.

I hope that's clear enough.

[GunbladeKnight]

I like the pathfinder rules where you have to make a craft check (usually spellcraft) when making the item. If you fail by 5 or more, the item becomes cursed, but at least it doesn't use XP.

[deuxhero]

Pay for it. XP has always had a GP cost, and WotC gave us a RAW method of doing it in a web enhancement.

[Mustard]

I second GunbladeKnight's suggestion. Just use Pathfinder's method.
From what I can tell, the main notable difference (aside from the loss of XP cost) is the Spellcraft check.
I don't want to get too involved in a discussion of balance, but if the proposal to adopt this system is met with opposition, perhaps compromise with an XP/gold exchange. PF was originally going to do that in its playtesting phases, but it was abandoned. Search around to find the exchange rate, and it should make this integration a little more palatable.
(While typing this, I hit preview and saw deuxhero's post, which I didn't know about, and might make a better fit/sell, depending on your group.)

[deuxhero]

I THINK the cost is 5 GB=1 XP, but should be checked.


The article called it "transference" IIRC, but not going to check.

[ericgrau]

I'm against any solution that requires a permanent expense, because xp is not a permanent expense. Anyone behind on levels advances faster. Typically it takes about 3 levels to catch up 1 level IIRC, from getting 1/3 more xp on most encounters. You might want to verify this. Thus each level you essentially get 1/3rd of that level's xp for free, or about 300 x level xp.

If a PC doesn't use much xp when crafting compared to this number, I'd ignore it and let the PC have that xp for free. If you're playing someone that crafts heavily, like an artificer, put yourself 1 or 2 levels behind the rest of the party and gain that number (1 or 2) x 300 x party level free crafting xp each level. Simple and done. I'd suggest staying 1 level behind, as crafting 7500 gp x party level in gear is already a lot.

I suppose 5 gp per xp might be tolerable for minor crafting, but I think being 1 level behind is a better deal for major crafting. Both options could be available to players, even switching mid-game.

[Gorfang113]

If you can convince your DM to allow this then this should work well, its what i do with my PC's characters with craft reserves. Let the reserve recharge weekly. That way as long as they are not going overbaord they should never need extra xp. THis does need a bit of trust though that it won't be abused, but it does help a lot if he allows it.

[Xtomjames]

Just follow pathfinder crafting rules instead, convert the Artificer's XP pool to virtual gold pool for the creation of items and increase that pool to double of what it is.

Or you could treat XP as a lossless pool. You can craft up to the XP you have without level loss and you'll level as normal but the XP available for crafting purposes are used up through crafting and it can't be used afterwards.

Example: If you're a level 10 Artificer you have 45,000 xp to work with. You can create a 45,000 xp item. You don't use up the XP in the sense of your level, but if you want to make a new item you no longer have xp to use after using up the 45,000 xp, and you have to wait until you level. The new level XP gives you the difference between the 10th level XP and 11th level XP to craft with.

[hydraa]

The way I got around it with a artificer is to procure some of the high XP magic items (scroll of permancy, wish, golem manual, tome of clear thought, etc). At 5th level, an artificer can use retain essence to extract the XP (not the gold cost though), from the item in question to his craft reserve (besure to include the base XP for the scroll as well as the additional XP. Then use the craft reserve has your holding tank for XP for crafting without the DM from worrying about differing levels. You pay a slight premium to the straight cost, but you can also make use of those magic items in the treasure that no one wants (especially cursed items).

[Draz74]

My old DM didn't like XP costs, so he just houseruled that item crafting gives you a negative level for as long as he felt like it. (Only for the rest of that day, in the case of e.g. Level 7 characters making Level 1 potions and scrolls. Really ambitious item creation projects could in theory give you multiple negative levels, which would wear off gradually; but that never actually came up in our game

It worked reasonably well.

[DrDeth]

Simple enough. Require the feat, time, spells etc, but have it give only a 25% or whatever discount, whatever seems to balance.

[Cicciograna]

I THINK the cost is 5 GB=1 XP, but should be checked.


The article called it "transference" IIRC, but not going to check.

Here's the article.

[Randrew]

Thank you all so much for your input! So many great ideas! I knew it was a good idea to turn to this community! I will present some of these to the group and see what happens.