Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

[Grue Bait]

My guess? He's a secret agent, working with MI6. Or he's a mob boss and on the run.

And yesss, plotting... always plotting...

[Internet Flea]

Its good to see that there is interest.
I think the setting will be appalachia (I've already written some intro stuff)
there will be one seer, three wolves, three masons, and one fool..

No baner at all?

[Lady Serpentine]

So... Remember Seer's Academy? It's running again, and could use someone to replace me, since I was playing at the point I took over as narrator.

[RuneboundShade]

'Traits WW: The misty isle' submitted for mod approval.

[BishFish]

No baner at all?

there will be, I just forgot to mention it.
Also, I talked to Zeb, and I had accidentally put Classic in the title even though it isn't related to the classic WW series. It should be on the forum for recruiting soon.

[billtodamax]

Sorry - I really can't keep up with WW games while I'm rehearsing.

Can you avoid autoing me please?

[flabort]

OK, I admit it: I like coming up with ideas for WWs more than I like playing or running them.

That said, I have another:

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MtG Mafia: Innestrad Block
At the beginning of the game, The Narrator will be randomly selecting 3 cards from Innestrad, Dark Ascension, and Avacyn Restored, for each player. Those form the player's role. There are no limitations as to what colors crop up, or anything. Permanents are considered to start on the battlefield. If a player starts with no creatures, his cards are re-picked, so that he starts with at least one creature. Similarly, if a player would start with a planeswalker or land, repick his cards.

Each day, players vote. In their QTs, they select which creature(s) that form their roles aid in their vote, and which defend them. Who is lynched is determined by the total power of attacking creatures pointing at him, minus the toughness of those defending him. A point can carry no power if no creature attacks. All creatures not attacking are considered to be defending. If a player would be lynched, all his cards are considered put into the graveyard. When a player would control no permanents, he is killed and his cards revealed.

Roles

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Instants can be "cast" during day phases or night phases. They can only be cast once every X phases, where X is the cost to cast them. Miracle costs can be used the first time you use it, but not afterwards. Sorceries can only be "cast" at night, but cooldown at the same speed as instants (odd costs cool down during the day, but can't be used then, sorry). Permanents untap at the start of every phase.

Mana has no purpose. You may activate any ability with a mana cost once per turn, if it would not be activated any other way. If an ability has tap in it's cost, it may be activated, but then the creature may not attack OR defend that turn, if it's a creature, unless you untap it somehow (though another card). permanents untap every day phase.

If you would draw a card from an ability or spell, you get a random spell from the three sets, within the colors you started with. If you would look at N cards in a library, N random cards from the set are chosen, and shown to you. If you would search your whole library, 15 cards will be randomly chosen for you to look for. Cards revealed only exist for a moment, and only in the starting colors of the library's owner.

Should a permanent be put in your hand, it immediately gets cast for no cost, since again, there is no mana. Sorceries and instants get treated with the same cooldown as others.

Targeting a creature actually means selecting a player, and then a random creature of theirs is selected. However, you may try to provide criteria for this. "Flabort's biggest creature" would target whichever of my creatures had the highest sum of power and toughness.

Creatures that sustain non-lynch damage do not lose this damage unless regenerated. Lynch damage cannot destroy creatures. You lose access to permanents that get destroyed, and if cards from your hand would be sent to the graveyard, you lose access to a sorcery or instant, too. Cards in your graveyard are revealed when you die, even if you didn't get to use them. Effects that affect the graveyard can possibly allow you to regain those abilities, though. Exile is similar, but can't be affected like the graveyard.

Factions

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There are 5 factions, one for every color. Players start in every faction that corresponds to the colors of the cards they start with. If a player starts with 3 white cards, he only belongs to the White faction. If a player starts with multicolor cards, and all 5 colors due to that, he's in all factions. If a player starts with all artifacts, he is totally neutral.

A player is victorious when there are no players in any of the factions that he is not in. The game ends, and who is victorious is revealed, when all living players are victorious. 5 color players win if they survive at all. 0 color players are a special exception to the generic rule, and also win if they survive at all. Dead players may not be victorious.

In addition to their own QTs, players will be provided with links to team QTs. Any players within a player's faction might be their enemies, though, so be careful. Players with more than one color (most) will be provided with links to two-color QTs for each combination of colors they control. (This means a 0 color player will be provided with no QTs besides his own, a 2 color player gets his, 2 faction QTs, and a 2-color QT. A three color player gets 3 2-color QTs. A 4 color player gets 6 2-color QTs. A five color player will get links to all faction QTs (All 5 factions, all 10 2-color QTs).

There is no scry interference, since scrying works differently in MtG. If you would get to look at a player's hand, his entire battlefield is revealed to you, too. If something is revealed in general, all players get to see that it was revealed, but not who revealed it.

If players would gain or lose life, they don't, since there is no life. However, a player can accumulate damage from non-lynch-point sources, such as burn, which will be added to the damage targeting them during the lynch, meaning burning a player will make it easier to lynch them later.

Confusing? Yes, trying to combine two games can be quite confusing. Seriously, I tried to make it complete as possible, but there are probably going to be scenarios where the rules don't cover anything. In which case the narrator would make up a rule for that scenario, and enforce it each time it happens.

Obviously some players will be a lot stronger than others,

[Internet Flea]

Any players within a player's faction might be their enemies, though, so be careful.

What do you mean? Does this mean a white-red player has to kill a white-blue player before the game will end because white-blue counts as blue?

[flabort]

Yes, exactly. They are both white, but they are enemies.

[Penguinator]

flabort, Writer's Block was bad enough. How is this supposed to be any better?

[flabort]

Ouch.
I didn't think it through, is how. Seriously, it's just an idea, I for one, do not have plans of running this one.

[Internet Flea]

Yes, exactly. They are both white, but they are enemies.

This effectively means that five-color characters cannot win because everyone needs them dead.

[flabort]

This effectively means that five-color characters cannot win because everyone needs them dead.

Everyone but other 5 color and no color players.
I catch your point, though.

[Ramsus]

Meta WW could use a replacement for Oddity. Anyone interested?

[Internet Flea]

I had an idea for a Clue Werewolf game.

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Town:

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Avery Boddy: Role scrier (sees what role a player has)
Otto Boddy: Item scrier (sees what item target player holds)
Bessy Boddy: Room scrier (sees every player in the targeted room)
Hugo "Big" Boddy: Follows targeted player, protects them if attacked. Voided for a night following a successful protection.
Annie, Boddy, Buddy Boddy, Sunny Boddy: Masons
No Boddy: villagers
Experts: There would be one expert for every weapon with the exception of the Knife. That player would know when the weapon is in the same room they are, but not who is holding it.

Wolves

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Honey Mustard: Item Devil (sees what item target player holds)
Pearl White: Alpha. Scries as No Boddy holding no item.
Prunilla Plum: Room Devil (sees every player in the targeted room)
Rich Green: Disguiser (targeted player scries as role of Rich's choice)
Dan Peacock: Role Devil (sees target player's role)
Will Scarlet: Thief/Reverse Thief (can steal an item from a player, or plant an item on a player without their knowledge)

Items
Items can be passed during the night, with no limit on how many a player can hold. (So the wolves can pass all their weapons to one person if they want.) Players are informed if they are given an item, with the exception of a reverse theft.

Weapons (Every wolf starts with one)
Only one weapon can be used during the night. Wolves can vote to decide which one it will be.

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Candlestick:narrates as "killed with a blunt instrument"
Pipe: narrates as "killed with a blunt instrument"
Wrench: narrates as "killed with a blunt instrument"; can
Knife: narrates as "killed with a sharp instrument"; scries as a random item decided at game start.
Revolver: Can be used to kill anyone in any room; only two shots; narrates as "killed with the revolver"
Noose: Used as the night begins; target is hanged in the morning and day ends. The noose is passed to a random player once used. Narrates as "hung with the noose"

Other Items (start with random townfolk)

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Helmet: Protects against blunt instruments.
Mirror: Sees which room targeted player enters.
Tacks: Anyone following you in the night is voided and revealed to have been tacked.
Plate: Protects against sharp instruments/the revolver.
flashlight: Keeps the room lit and voids all other actions happening in it.
Cane: Can be used to fight off the lynch mob (day bane, village only). Can be used to kill a target, narrates as "killed with a blunt instrument"

Day takes place with everyone gathered outside, Night has everyone go into a room, with items only effecting people in the same room (unless otherwise stated). Players targeting other players with room-specific actions will automatically follow them into the same room.

There are nine rooms to choose from.
Kitchen
Ballroom
Conservatory
Dining Room
Billiard Room
Library
Lounge
Hall
Study


Role powers will affect anyone anywhere unless otherwise stated.

Anyone have any comments, suggestions, desire to narrate?

[Ramsus]

The Wrench says it "can" and then nothing. Were you thinking it might fix broken items (assuming items can break)?

So, no Ghost Bar? =P

I note there isn't yet any details on how to move from one room to the other. I assume it's public who moves where unless you use some sort of secret passage? How will those work? (It's been a while since I played Clue so pardon me if I'm getting any of the ideas here wrong.)

With the tacks, I'm guessing that means scrying and Hugo's thing? Or is it just basically everything? (If you think about it, basically all of the actions players can take would imply they followed the target.) Or something else?

I'm guessing that someone has to be in the same room to kill you? (I don't think you actually said but, the Revolver implies it.)

Anyway, sounds really great. I'd love to play.

[Tom the Mime]

I would play just to be able to say "I accuse Ramsus, in the observatory, with the candlestick". Might even be able to make a mechanic out of it with the wolf dying if you're right but a penalty if you're wrong (or only one accusation per player).

I like the thief/reverse thief and the item scrier seems a good way to balance a role disguiser. I think multiple room scriers might be a good idea though otherwise the weapon experts aren't really worthwhile, given you'd need the room scrier to scry a room with the expert and the respective weapon for the experts power to do anything.

[Lady Serpentine]

Does this count as prior experience should I choose consider asking you if I can narrate?

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RuneboundShade was killed by Ramsus in the castle with a knife. He was/is The Watcher, one of the Dreamers, and a Fae-aligned seer.

Also, speaking of Fae, the majority of the rules and roles for Fae II are done (I currently have a team-and-a-half to finish), so it should be up soon.

[Internet Flea]

The Wrench says it "can" and then nothing. Were you thinking it might fix broken items (assuming items can break)?

So, no Ghost Bar? =P

I note there isn't yet any details on how to move from one room to the other. I assume it's public who moves where unless you use some sort of secret passage? How will those work? (It's been a while since I played Clue so pardon me if I'm getting any of the ideas here wrong.)

With the tacks, I'm guessing that means scrying and Hugo's thing? Or is it just basically everything? (If you think about it, basically all of the actions players can take would imply they followed the target.) Or something else?

I'm guessing that someone has to be in the same room to kill you? (I don't think you actually said but, the Revolver implies it.)

Anyway, sounds really great. I'd love to play.

I was trying to give the Wrench, Pipe and Candlestick (and Knife) secondary abilities if the villagers got hold of them, but couldn't think of enough. Can't see it fixing any item I've named, although maybe it can be used to trap a room or something.

f you target someone with an action that requires being in the same room (i.e. most weapons), you'll follow them. I'll probably work something in there about targeting someone in your room instead but I'm not sure what the downside of that would be.

Tacks are for anyone following you, i.e. using most of the items on you; it'll void most anyone who uses an item on you, and reveal to all the players that they were targetting you with something. Scries and the mirror are not room-specific
(item scry=bumping up against people during the day and checking their pockets,
people scry=looking up their files,
room scry=secret passages or hidden cameras or something.)

I'm thinking people don't know who's in the room with them. It would just be a simple "I'm spending the night in the Billiard Room" QT post. Don't know how to work that in storywise, though, or whether it's better than everyone knowing who's there. (And I might add some kind of space limit, so only six people can fit in a room or something.)

There should probably be an item for using secret passages but I can't think of what it'd be. (There should probably be more items in general, actually.)

I would play just to be able to say "I accuse Ramsus, in the observatory, with the candlestick". Might even be able to make a mechanic out of it with the wolf dying if you're right but a penalty if you're wrong (or only one accusation per player).

I like the thief/reverse thief and the item scrier seems a good way to balance a role disguiser. I think multiple room scriers might be a good idea though otherwise the weapon experts aren't really worthwhile, given you'd need the room scrier to scry a room with the expert and the respective weapon for the experts power to do anything.

The narrations were planned to have "Ramsus was killed in the Lounge by a blunt instrument." Not sure how an accusation would work; it seems pretty overpowered.

Yeah, not sure how to balance the Experts; either they know who's in the room, in which case they can find wolves really fast, or they don't know who's in the room in which case they're pretty much useless.

[Ramsus]

Hmm, ok, so I guess we could assume the rooms are dark so you can't see who is a room with you during the Night.

I can see the wrench being used to open secret passages. The pipe, hmm, maybe you could use it to disarm people of other weapons? lol, or maybe you could use it to bar the doors so nobody could leave/enter the room the next phase for that (outside of the secret passage). The candlestick could hold candles? I guess candles could be used to tell you who targeted you during the night? With either some benefit to using them with the candlestick or a penalty to using them without it? (Argh, hot wax!)

So, hmm, how do secret passages work? One per room? They close when they get used? So the question then becomes how people find out about them and how they're used. Maybe there's a search involved (this would help for the other items you propose to have). Searching probably would force you to not move from the room.

[Internet Flea]

Thinking about it, if I reduce the Seer role to getting Boddy/no Boddy, that might weaken town enough that seeing who is in your room wouldn't be too overpowered. And then instead of Alpha the wolves get a power that blacks out a room during the night.

And thinking about Tom's idea, a successful accusation might make your vote count for two, and an unsuccessful one makes your vote count for zero.

Ramsus: yeah, the pipe's the hard one.

Searching is probably a good idea, with every room having secret passages to several other rooms, one of which can be found during the night by searching (but that's the only action you get to use).
Dropped/room-specific items could be found through searches too; Cue balls and Coats and stuff.

Cnor: Feel free to run it, I can't.

[Ramsus]

The accusation vote thing doesn't work. Then everyone always accuses everyone of being wolves and town never lynches town. In fact, every day you'd have a wolf lynch because every member of town (plus the wolves unless they want to out themselves) would accuse the person(s) of the day of being a different wolf role. You'd still end up with 0 votes on a person if they were town and the only valid votes being the ones on wolves from the people who guessed correctly.

The other way this could work out is that nobody ever ends up lynched if there's a minimum vote requirement to lynch.

(Well there's also the third option that everyone just ends up ignoring the rule for the most part.)

[Tom the Mime]

The narrations were planned to have "Ramsus was killed in the Lounge by a blunt instrument." Not sure how an accusation would work; it seems pretty overpowered.

Makes sense. I didn't think the location of the murder would be disclosed each night so that you'd actually need a good and slightly lucky network to get who killed them, how and with what with only 1 or 2 uses each in the whole game to prevent abuse. I agree that where they're killed is included in the narration, it gets a bit overpowered.

[Internet Flea]

The accusation vote thing doesn't work. Then everyone always accuses everyone of being wolves and town never lynches town. In fact, every day you'd have a wolf lynch because every member of town (plus the wolves unless they want to out themselves) would accuse the person(s) of the day of being a different wolf role.

Well a wolf's accusation would have no effect on their vote, plus the accusation would have to get both the role and weapon right (part of why it's "blunt instrument" not "candlestick"), so that could end up with the wolves controlling the lynch instead. Theoretically.

The other way this could work out is that nobody ever ends up lynched if there's a minimum vote requirement to lynch.

Done. Minimum to lynch is 15%.

EDIT: Or maybe if the accusation was wrong that day's vote would count as 1 but the next day's vote would be worth 0.

[Ramsus]

I think it might be better to do away with the accusation thing entirely (though we might have a meta tracking board to see who was right the most at the end of the game).

Personally I don't like minimum votes, doesn't do anything for town and...well, town side is often lazy. Also it allows wolves to just not vote intentionally to cause no lynch at all (which is often preferable when your options are lynching say a wolf or a mason). But, it's a very minor concern either way. Just figured I'd say my preference and reasons and see what people's responses were. We don't seem to do a lot of meta mechanical talks about what rules cause what.

[Internet Flea]

Agreed about the minimums. I don't think 15% would pose an issue though, unless the game was really big. That's five votes out of thirty players.

But maybe the accusations could be a minor win for the dead players instead.



I'm thinking it might be best to split the difference and have people in the same room recognize one or two other people in the room, but not everyone (decided randomly so someone might not be seen at all). Experts can contribute something, room scries still matter, one wolf gets to black out any room for a night.

And searching means you don't see any people in your room, just items or secret passages (probably separate searches for those).

[BourgeoisJerry]

Would it be possible for a player to follow another player without using an item?

[Internet Flea]

Would it be possible for a player to follow another player without using an item?

I don't see the point of it, but I don't see why not.

Tacks would still effect them though.

[TBFProgrammer]

I don't see the point of it, but I don't see why not.

Tacks would still effect them though.

Maybe if they are searching you could also find what they do. Also, town could use that to ensure they are in the same room as someone they suspect (and thus know what room that is).

Q: How do follow circles resolve? (A follows B who follows A)

[Internet Flea]

Maybe if they are searching you could also find what they do. Also, town could use that to ensure they are in the same room as someone they suspect (and thus know what room that is).

Q: How do follow circles resolve? (A follows B who follows A)

I'm going to say that if you follow someone you won't see anyone else in the room that night, or know which room you're in. The main point is to ensure an action isn't botched because your target went somewhere your power won't affect them; I don't see a reason to power it up beyond that.

Follow circles would end up in a random room with none of them knowing where they are and only seeing each other. (Or possibly staying outside for the night and freezing to death. )