[BitP:R] BleachITP Reborn OOC Thread 18: Peek-a-boo style PAWNCH!

[Vulkan]

I'm sorry I'm not used to free form role playing combat can someone tell me if I god modded or not?

[horngeek]

Yeah, you did- and in any case, with Inoue being in midair, trying to take her hostage was impossible anyway, even without taking into account that she's very good at mobility.

Something like this probably should have been checked first. Whether in thread (i.e. saying 'he attempts to') or through PMs ('hey, do you mind if I do this?').

[Vulkan]

Aaaw I failed you all.

[horngeek]

Aaaw I failed you all.

Nah, it's okay. Just remember for next time.

[Nicklance]

"Comrade! About this whole arm situation... You're a doctor, right?"

"I'm a doctor, not a carpenter. An arm is not a log of wood that superglue can just fix."

[KerfuffleMach2]

"I'm a doctor, not a carpenter. An arm is not a log of wood that superglue can just fix."

Bah! You're just not using enough superglue.

[maximus25]

Mimus has to react to a cero in her face tho. As well as the Bount, and maybe Allan.

[Draken]

"I'm a doctor, not a carpenter. An arm is not a log of wood that superglue can just fix."

"You just need to find the right proteins to do it."

[riccaru]

"You just need to find the right proteins to do it."

Hmm.... Interesting idea. Now if only Suzume could get to Hueco Mundo!

[Nicklance]

Hmm.... Interesting idea. Now if only Suzume could get to Hueco Mundo!

One can only wonder if the Gates of Hell will open up and drag Suzume inside once she gets executed.

[riccaru]

One can only wonder if the Gates of Hell will open up and drag Suzume inside once she gets executed.

I thought that only happened to hollows who were evil in their mortal lives? Cause if not, that would be awesome.

[KnightDisciple]

I always assumed it happened for any mortal who led an evil life in the Bleach universe. It's probably just that 99% of said individuals become Hollows.

With a Shinigami or Plus in Soul Society...I dunno. I'd say they maybe get a "second chance" via being wiped during reincarnation. Then, if they're still bad, they get the Gates when they die as a mortal.

Maybe she'll come back as a rabbit or something this time.

[Draken]

Purified hollows are not actually 'killed'. It is a (more brutal) konso, it is why the gates appear. When shiigami die, they die, no gates of hell, back to the cycle of reincarnation.

Interestingly, if Hell Chapter has anything to say about that, it seens that (evil) menos go to hell upon purification, since the menos soul is exactly what it is, it is not a tortured mockery of the former plus existance, but something else entirely, a truly new soul.

[horngeek]

Purified hollows are not actually 'killed'. It is a (more brutal) konso, it is why the gates appear. When shiigami die, they die, no gates of hell, back to the cycle of reincarnation.

Interestingly, if Hell Chapter has anything to say about that, it seens that (evil) menos go to hell upon purification, since the menos soul is exactly what it is, it is not a tortured mockery of the former plus existance, but something else entirely, a truly new soul.

Just watched that movie recently... but that was only in the prologue, wasn't it?

[Nicklance]

I always assumed it happened for any mortal who led an evil life in the Bleach universe. It's probably just that 99% of said individuals become Hollows.

With a Shinigami or Plus in Soul Society...I dunno. I'd say they maybe get a "second chance" via being wiped during reincarnation. Then, if they're still bad, they get the Gates when they die as a mortal.

Maybe she'll come back as a rabbit or something this time.

Purified hollows are not actually 'killed'. It is a (more brutal) konso, it is why the gates appear. When shiigami die, they die, no gates of hell, back to the cycle of reincarnation.

Interestingly, if Hell Chapter has anything to say about that, it seens that (evil) menos go to hell upon purification, since the menos soul is exactly what it is, it is not a tortured mockery of the former plus existance, but something else entirely, a truly new soul.

I forgot that you guys discussed about this earlier and I did not chime in.

But I felt that getting access to Soul Society is already a 'second chance' since there's no canonical precedent of 'past life memories'. So any souls 'born' or just brought into Soul Society are clean slates. And going by the canon fact that "very evil people" get to go to Hell means it doesn't matter what state of spiritual existence you are, if you're one of the foulest scum in existence there's only one place reserved for you.

[Kuroimaken]

So! I've been thinking a little bit about Zanpakutou lately, and about the roles of swords in many stories. Since Shinigami don't really need power boosts, I thought of adding a potential problem to overeager swordsmen. I call it Kenshindoku (Heart of the Sword Poisoning).

It basically goes like this. If anyone's familiar with the notion of cursed swords at all, they can probably remember their nature stems from things such as blood spilled during forgery, killing innocents/way too many people etc.. Now, Shinigami do not FORGE their swords, they instill Asauchi with their own spirits, right? But those spirits are still connected to them. So the idea is that Shinigami who are a little too gleeful about their job or that cut down particularly vile Hollows slowly begin to accumulate Hollow 'taint' on their Zanpakutou. The more Hollow 'taint' they acquire, the more distorted their notions and behavior become. If not stopped, said Hollow 'taint' could essentially lead to a situation not unlike Soushi's own (i.e. Hollow conscience in Shinigami body), except the original conscience is still there, and there are no Hollow powers to speak of (so no Vizardification).

This can be avoided, of course, by performing Jinzen regularly and making sure to keep one's sword "clean" (metaphysically speaking. Think of it as doing sword maintenance except not on a physical level). At very advanced degrees, spiritual surgery must be performed to excise the Hollow 'taint' and give it physical form. At that point, it must be confronted, preferrably by its original host. Possible outcomes include:

-Straight-out purification: original host beats it single-handedly. Purification complete.
-Combo purification: several other Shinigami beat it in owner's stead. The accumulated 'taint' splits evenly between the Shinigami involved, according to those that used their swords the most.
-'Taint' escape: Said 'taint' will last depending on the amount it accumulated before excision. From then on, it can sustain itself by eating other souls just like a regular Hollow. If it eats enough, it stabilizes and becomes an Arrancar.
-'Taint' overtake: If the 'taint' is excised but not purified (but neither does it escape) it can attempt to 're-infect' its original host. They then proceed to fight within the host's inner world. If the host loses, his/her soul is warped by the 'taint' into becoming a Hollow (or an Arrancar if his/her soul is powerful enough).

I'm accepting suggestions in this regard, of course. This is just a rough draft. Arrancar created by this method are not necessarily stronger than regular Arrancar (only if the host happened to be stronger than most 'newly-born' Arrancar).

[Frozen_Feet]

I'm sorry I'm not used to free form role playing combat can someone tell me if I god modded or not?

Just for future reference, here's a good rule of thumb: Whenever your character attacks another, leave the result of the attack open.

Compare and contrast these two examples:

Example 1: "X punches Y, breaking his jaw."
Example 2: "X throws a punch at Y with jaw-breaking force."

First is god-modding; you're dictating events without input from the other player. Second gives your opponent a chance to react and affect the course of events.

Another helpful thing is to agree beforehand with your opponent about where you want the fight to go; who is going to win or lose, and at what price. That way, you'll avoid most pitfalls.

One can only wonder if the Gates of Hell will open up and drag Suzume inside once she gets executed.

Purified hollows are not actually 'killed'. It is a (more brutal) konso, it is why the gates appear. When shiigami die, they die, no gates of hell, back to the cycle of reincarnation.

I think this is one of those things that needs you to know a bit about buddhism and the cultural backdrop for Bleach to make sense. Long story short, Soul Society is a rest stop; a place where a soul is free to indulge for a while after refraining from doing so in life, before they begin the cycle anew.

Another way to think of it is to see the different afterlives as floor. Earth is the ground floor, Soul Society is upstairs, Hell is the basement and Hueco Mundo is, uh, outside. You can't get to the basement without passing through the ground floor first (no matter how briefly), and vice versa.

But I felt that getting access to Soul Society is already a 'second chance' since there's no canonical precedent of 'past life memories'. So any souls 'born' or just brought into Soul Society are clean slates.

The parrot kid, as well as a great load of Rukongai citizens, canonically displayed knowledge of their past lifes. They talked about them to Ichigo & friends when they first got to Soul Society.

Only memories and sins from the time one is a Hollow are purified. My own theory for our setting is that amnesiac souls are purified Menos, since the only life those have had is their time as a Hollow. Other possible reasons for amnesia are left to speculation.

And going by the canon fact that "very evil people" get to go to Hell means it doesn't matter what state of spiritual existence you are, if you're one of the foulest scum in existence there's only one place reserved for you.

Interestingly, if Hell Chapter has anything to say about that, it seens that (evil) menos go to hell upon purification, since the menos soul is exactly what it is, it is not a tortured mockery of the former plus existance, but something else entirely, a truly new soul.

I haven't seen the movie proper, but based on the prologue, I presume you are talking of Aaroniero Arruruerie and Szayel Aporro. It's good thing to remember one thing here: unlike in our game, in canon Bleach, it's not been confirmed what happens to souls that become Menos. In our game, they fuse to a new entity, but in canon, it might as well be that one particular Hollow soul just gains dominance over others.

In the latter case, then, Szayel and Aaroniero ending up in Hell would simply be the result of those two beings having been bastards in life as well - what happened to other souls consumed by them is unknown. We know, from the earliest example of Shrieker, that evil people turned Hollows are dragged there in their Hollow form, so there's no contradiction in them being in their Arrancar guises either way.

@Kuroimaken: I don't think we need any special mechanism for Shinigami turning evil. However, I see some potential in your theory to explaining where Vizards (usually) come from in our setting - when a Shinigami acts too much like a Hollow, they start turning into ones. But as is the normal case of Inner Hollows, I'd rather we nix any external manifestation of them - external manifestation is, in my mind, the realm of Sword Spirits.

Overall, I think your theory might have a better place as not a fact of our setting, but as Shinigami superstition. We know trying acquire Hollow powers was outlawed in canon; maybe these two things could be linked?

The real reason behind becoming evil or turning into Vizard would have nothing to do with taint, but I can see it existing as a philosophical or metaphorical concept.

[horngeek]

Only memories and sins from the time one is a Hollow are purified. My own theory for our setting is that amnesiac souls are purified Menos, since the only life those have had is their time as a Hollow. Other possible reasons for amnesia are left to speculation.

I'm pretty sure how much memory is retained varies from soul to soul. Especially since the Hayashi family is unusual because they all retain their memories.

[Draken]

Weren't they unusual because they always belong to the same family in both worlds?

[HirokatsuGoto]

hey everyone...i am struggling a bit at work and home so please bare with me as i try to work it out and still post..i am hoping to get a chance to post tomorrow

thanks

[horngeek]

Weren't they unusual because they always belong to the same family in both worlds?

The concept included elements of both...

[Frozen_Feet]

Weren't they unusual because they always belong to the same family in both worlds?

As far as I recall, it's both. I mean, if they didn't retain their memories, it'd be damn hard to ever tell they did, in fact, belong to the same mortal family.

"Excuse me, are you a Hayashi?"

"Who?"

[Kuroimaken]

Just for future reference, here's a good rule of thumb: Whenever your character attacks another, leave the result of the attack open.

Compare and contrast these two examples:

Example 1: "X punches Y, breaking his jaw."
Example 2: "X throws a punch at Y with jaw-breaking force."

First is god-modding; you're dictating events without input from the other player. Second gives your opponent a chance to react and affect the course of events.

Another helpful thing is to agree beforehand with your opponent about where you want the fight to go; who is going to win or lose, and at what price. That way, you'll avoid most pitfalls.





I think this is one of those things that needs you to know a bit about buddhism and the cultural backdrop for Bleach to make sense. Long story short, Soul Society is a rest stop; a place where a soul is free to indulge for a while after refraining from doing so in life, before they begin the cycle anew.

Another way to think of it is to see the different afterlives as floor. Earth is the ground floor, Soul Society is upstairs, Hell is the basement and Hueco Mundo is, uh, outside. You can't get to the basement without passing through the ground floor first (no matter how briefly), and vice versa.



The parrot kid, as well as a great load of Rukongai citizens, canonically displayed knowledge of their past lifes. They talked about them to Ichigo & friends when they first got to Soul Society.

Only memories and sins from the time one is a Hollow are purified. My own theory for our setting is that amnesiac souls are purified Menos, since the only life those have had is their time as a Hollow. Other possible reasons for amnesia are left to speculation.




I haven't seen the movie proper, but based on the prologue, I presume you are talking of Aaroniero Arruruerie and Szayel Aporro. It's good thing to remember one thing here: unlike in our game, in canon Bleach, it's not been confirmed what happens to souls that become Menos. In our game, they fuse to a new entity, but in canon, it might as well be that one particular Hollow soul just gains dominance over others.

In the latter case, then, Szayel and Aaroniero ending up in Hell would simply be the result of those two beings having been bastards in life as well - what happened to other souls consumed by them is unknown. We know, from the earliest example of Shrieker, that evil people turned Hollows are dragged there in their Hollow form, so there's no contradiction in them being in their Arrancar guises either way.

@Kuroimaken: I don't think we need any special mechanism for Shinigami turning evil. However, I see some potential in your theory to explaining where Vizards (usually) come from in our setting - when a Shinigami acts too much like a Hollow, they start turning into ones. But as is the normal case of Inner Hollows, I'd rather we nix any external manifestation of them - external manifestation is, in my mind, the realm of Sword Spirits.

Overall, I think your theory might have a better place as not a fact of our setting, but as Shinigami superstition. We know trying acquire Hollow powers was outlawed in canon; maybe these two things could be linked?

The real reason behind becoming evil or turning into Vizard would have nothing to do with taint, but I can see it existing as a philosophical or metaphorical concept.

It need not be something commonplace. There could be records of such things happening in the past, and as a general rule Jinzen as a customary practice has been enforced since.

It wouldn't work with Soushi himself to turn into a Hollow/Vizard, for example, because his conscience ALREADY IS the Hollow, but he cannot acquire Hollow 'taint' because there's nothing TO taint.

It isn't necessarily meant as a mechanism to turn Shinigami evil, but more as a mechanism to keep them from, as I believe KD put once, "only being the good guys by virtue of not eating other souls". Keeping one's soul pure as a swordsman is a recurring theme in stories involving legendary masters, and I feel it is one that could have some use in our setting.

It also prevents the "you can be as much of a jerk as you want in Soul Society" logic, at least for Shinigami. The more commonplace the event itself is, the more reason the people of Rukon would have to fear them, but even at a "this is a freaking myth!" level, it still serves as a cautionary tale.

Note that the accumulation of Hollow 'taint' would only happen through the use of one's Zanpakutou. Hakuda and Kidou are exempt.

[KerfuffleMach2]

It need not be something commonplace. There could be records of such things happening in the past, and as a general rule Jinzen as a customary practice has been enforced since.

It wouldn't work with Soushi himself to turn into a Hollow/Vizard, for example, because his conscience ALREADY IS the Hollow, but he cannot acquire Hollow 'taint' because there's nothing TO taint.

It isn't necessarily meant as a mechanism to turn Shinigami evil, but more as a mechanism to keep them from, as I believe KD put once, "only being the good guys by virtue of not eating other souls". Keeping one's soul pure as a swordsman is a recurring theme in stories involving legendary masters, and I feel it is one that could have some use in our setting.

It also prevents the "you can be as much of a jerk as you want in Soul Society" logic, at least for Shinigami. The more commonplace the event itself is, the more reason the people of Rukon would have to fear them, but even at a "this is a freaking myth!" level, it still serves as a cautionary tale.

Note that the accumulation of Hollow 'taint' would only happen through the use of one's Zanpakutou. Hakuda and Kidou are exempt.

I like it. It fits, and it does serve as a way to keep shinigami from going into rages. Plus, it could used as plot points.

I approve of it.

[tgva8889]

It need not be something commonplace. There could be records of such things happening in the past, and as a general rule Jinzen as a customary practice has been enforced since.

It wouldn't work with Soushi himself to turn into a Hollow/Vizard, for example, because his conscience ALREADY IS the Hollow, but he cannot acquire Hollow 'taint' because there's nothing TO taint.

It isn't necessarily meant as a mechanism to turn Shinigami evil, but more as a mechanism to keep them from, as I believe KD put once, "only being the good guys by virtue of not eating other souls". Keeping one's soul pure as a swordsman is a recurring theme in stories involving legendary masters, and I feel it is one that could have some use in our setting.

It also prevents the "you can be as much of a jerk as you want in Soul Society" logic, at least for Shinigami. The more commonplace the event itself is, the more reason the people of Rukon would have to fear them, but even at a "this is a freaking myth!" level, it still serves as a cautionary tale.

Note that the accumulation of Hollow 'taint' would only happen through the use of one's Zanpakutou. Hakuda and Kidou are exempt.

"Cause, you know, none of us are like that or anything."

Though in all fairness... this doesn't "prevent" anything.

[Frozen_Feet]

It isn't necessarily meant as a mechanism to turn Shinigami evil, but more as a mechanism to keep them from, as I believe KD put once, "only being the good guys by virtue of not eating other souls". Keeping one's soul pure as a swordsman is a recurring theme in stories involving legendary masters, and I feel it is one that could have some use in our setting.

Aye. But it's a good thing to note that the concept already exists in canon Bleach, without any outside forces like taint to enforce it (A Shinigami should only let duty guide his blade, not hatred). A Shinigami who is a ****, is condemned by his peers.

Also, characters are good guys by the virtue of being good, not by the virtue of being Shinigami. I don't get the need to be "better than" canon, since, frankly, canon Soul Society isn't that bad, and many of our characters are better already. There isn't anything special to gain or prove that way.

[Kuroimaken]

Well, what would you add or subtract to it? I'd rather see the concept modified than extinguished, really.

[Frozen_Feet]

As noted, nix external manifestation of the taint, and perhaps its factuality. Beyond that, it's fine.

[Kuroimaken]

What external manifestation?

If you mean the excision bit, it's not meant to be something the taint itself can do, it's meant to be something a third party flushes out of the host's system (think cancer removal surgery). Except, you know, this cancer is kinda sentient.

As far as factuality... if it's not something that exists at all, why would it be feared? These are Shinigami we're talking about. Their very title and nature implies that, in the setting, you can beg all you want, but there is no god. Chances are they either already know so much of the realm they live in that there are literally no surprises left beyond those can be fabricated or what little they don't have in accumulated knowledge are things they USED to know but don't anymore.

[Kasanip]

So! I've been thinking a little bit about Zanpakutou lately, and about the roles of swords in many stories. Since Shinigami don't really need power boosts, I thought of adding a potential problem to overeager swordsmen. I call it Kenshindoku (Heart of the Sword Poisoning).

It basically goes like this. If anyone's familiar with the notion of cursed swords at all, they can probably remember their nature stems from things such as blood spilled during forgery, killing innocents/way too many people etc.. Now, Shinigami do not FORGE their swords, they instill Asauchi with their own spirits, right? But those spirits are still connected to them. So the idea is that Shinigami who are a little too gleeful about their job or that cut down particularly vile Hollows slowly begin to accumulate Hollow 'taint' on their Zanpakutou. The more Hollow 'taint' they acquire, the more distorted their notions and behavior become. If not stopped, said Hollow 'taint' could essentially lead to a situation not unlike Soushi's own (i.e. Hollow conscience in Shinigami body), except the original conscience is still there, and there are no Hollow powers to speak of (so no Vizardification).

This can be avoided, of course, by performing Jinzen regularly and making sure to keep one's sword "clean" (metaphysically speaking. Think of it as doing sword maintenance except not on a physical level). At very advanced degrees, spiritual surgery must be performed to excise the Hollow 'taint' and give it physical form. At that point, it must be confronted, preferrably by its original host. Possible outcomes include:

-Straight-out purification: original host beats it single-handedly. Purification complete.
-Combo purification: several other Shinigami beat it in owner's stead. The accumulated 'taint' splits evenly between the Shinigami involved, according to those that used their swords the most.
-'Taint' escape: Said 'taint' will last depending on the amount it accumulated before excision. From then on, it can sustain itself by eating other souls just like a regular Hollow. If it eats enough, it stabilizes and becomes an Arrancar.
-'Taint' overtake: If the 'taint' is excised but not purified (but neither does it escape) it can attempt to 're-infect' its original host. They then proceed to fight within the host's inner world. If the host loses, his/her soul is warped by the 'taint' into becoming a Hollow (or an Arrancar if his/her soul is powerful enough).

I'm accepting suggestions in this regard, of course. This is just a rough draft. Arrancar created by this method are not necessarily stronger than regular Arrancar (only if the host happened to be stronger than most 'newly-born' Arrancar).

It is an ok idea, I think. But there is some confusion, because there are 2 reasons. It is caused by happiness of duty or of touch a hollow? I don't understand such a problem. The problem is there is no explanation about Konsou. When touching the plus soul, there is no effect.

Because both is purification, there is an inconsistency I think.