The Twin Blade (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

[Hanuman]

Care to explain the Tiger class feature? I'm kinda interested in it but get confused in the decode.

[NeoSeraphi]

Care to explain the Tiger class feature? I'm kinda interested in it but get confused in the decode.

Tiger Frenzy or Tiger Striker?

[YouLostMe]

Yikes, Neo. I disagree with most of the people that classes can't compete here, but it really seems like its in Beguiler territory, especially at those higher levels.

Other than that, I'm bothered by the lack of unique abilities this class can have. Unlike your Brawler, which has a couple different ways to punch in the face, this guy can only stab in the face one way for about half its career (which as far as I ever really play).

I'd love to see the "don't have penalties" done by 3rd or 4th level so we can forget about them, and then focus on unique abilities afterwards.

[NeoSeraphi]

Yikes, Neo. I disagree with most of the people that classes can't compete here, but it really seems like its in Beguiler territory, especially at those higher levels.

Er...what's wrong with the beguiler?

Other than that, I'm bothered by the lack of unique abilities this class can have. Unlike your Brawler, which has a couple different ways to punch in the face, this guy can only stab in the face one way for about half its career (which as far as I ever really play).

That was the reason behind the Tiger Striker ACF. If you want options, get maneuvers instead of bonuses. If you like simple characters and just want a TWF fix, don't take Tiger Striker.

I'd love to see the "don't have penalties" done by 3rd or 4th level so we can forget about them, and then focus on unique abilities afterwards.

Actually the "don't have penalties" thing is done by 3rd level (Twin Weapon Focus essentially cancels the TWF penalties)

As for unique abilities, the problem with giving a TWF class unique abilities is that the whole reason someone plays a TWF class is to get lots of extra attacks. Giving you an ability that takes a full-round to do one or two attacks with something extra cuts into that, while giving you an ability that adds something extra while keeping your full-attack is overpowered.

[Morph Bark]

As to falling - a creature only falls 300 feet in the first round, 500 feet in each round after that. Each round that it falls without hitting the ground, it gets another reflex save to resume flying. These are the flying rules that you apparently don't know.

Just to note, but: Umno.

Flying creatures fall 150 ft the first round, 300 ft following rounds. Nonflying creatures fall 500 ft the first round, 1000 ft following rounds. The former is stated in the books and re-stated in Rules of the Game: All About Movement (Part Four). I didn't know about the second part until looking for it just now, but it can be found in Rules of the Game: All About Movement (Part Five).

[Hanuman]

Just to note, but: Umno.

Flying creatures fall 150 ft the first round, 300 ft following rounds. Nonflying creatures fall 500 ft the first round, 1000 ft following rounds. The former is stated in the books and re-stated in Rules of the Game: All About Movement (Part Four). I didn't know about the second part until looking for it just now, but it can be found in Rules of the Game: All About Movement (Part Five).

I would also make the assertion that you can choose to double that falling speed as the 1000ft/round rule assumes a ragdoll where as you can dive in mid air.

I'm confused about the ACF, perhaps a table would help?

[Hiro Protagonest]

I'm confused about the ACF, perhaps a table would help?

It's simple. Just take out the designated class features and put in swordsage maneuvers known and readied, with the disciplines and recovery mechanic in the ACF.

But does it get stances?

[NeoSeraphi]

It's simple. Just take out the designated class features and put in swordsage maneuvers known and readied, with the disciplines and recovery mechanic in the ACF.

But does it get stances?

It does get stances. Can't believe I forgot that. Better add it in. Thanks Swift.

Edit: Okay I didn't forget it. It says "Gains martial maneuver progression like a swordsage. The twin blade may select disciplines and stances from the Iron Heart..."

[YouLostMe]

Er...what's wrong with the beguiler?

In that Tier system, the Beguiler is the closest you can get to Tier 2 while still being in Tier 3. Most people don't choose it as a balance point, especially when you can't sandbag.

That was the reason behind the Tiger Striker ACF. If you want options, get maneuvers instead of bonuses. If you like simple characters and just want a TWF fix, don't take Tiger Striker.

Well that's all well and good, and I saw that and tipped my hat to it, but that doesn't make the original class less boring. This guy will be hitting things for its early levels. And hitting them and hitting them and hitting them... it's really not intriguing.

Actually the "don't have penalties" thing is done by 3rd level (Twin Weapon Focus essentially cancels the TWF penalties)

I meant to say the "give them bonuses" thing. Like, increasing over time to a +8 bonus to hit with two weapons is interesting, but not intriguing, especially since the class is all ready hitting twice with basically every attack and has a pile of bonuses backing it up all the way from level 1.

As for unique abilities, the problem with giving a TWF class unique abilities is that the whole reason someone plays a TWF class is to get lots of extra attacks. Giving you an ability that takes a full-round to do one or two attacks with something extra cuts into that, while giving you an ability that adds something extra while keeping your full-attack is overpowered.

Distracting Strike
On a successful attack roll, your opponent is flat-footed until their next initiative pass.

Contingent Combat
Give up [x] number of strikes. If you attacked next turn, you may make 1 AoO + [x]/2 strikes on the opponent after their attack resolves.

Real Whirlwind Attack
Whirlwind attack with two weapons, same bonus.

I took under a minute on each of those. They're not too hard to think of, not hard for a player to remember (say everyone gets like 3-5 to play with), and they add more tactics than "I hit it with my sword 8 times".

[NeoSeraphi]

I meant to say the "give them bonuses" thing. Like, increasing over time to a +8 bonus to hit with two weapons is interesting, but not intriguing, especially since the class is all ready hitting twice with basically every attack and has a pile of bonuses backing it up all the way from level 1.

Added Gale Blade at 2nd level and Swords Dance at 5th, giving the normal twin blade something to do with her actions other than attack.