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2011-09-20, 08:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #806 - The Discussion Thread
The Giant's take on how the huge can of worms that is D&D is spot on IMO. To quote a friend of mine with 20+ years of GM experience "Any GM worth his salt tinkers with the rules".
Treating everything outside the SRD as optional material to be used, subverted or adjusted it exactly how I would do it as well, rather than taking it as holy writ.
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2011-09-20, 08:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2006
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- Turku, Finland
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Re: OOTS #806 - The Discussion Thread
Poor Durkon.
Thor must be using the same technology as these guys with the same problem:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FFRoYhTJQQ
Caractacus
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2011-09-20, 08:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2011
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- Verona
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2011-09-20, 08:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2011
Re: OOTS #806 - The Discussion Thread
Agreed.
Let's just hope that Roy won't lose his fight because Thog "suddenly finds a long-lost +5 sword buried under the sand".
I'm responding to you because you seem most reasonable, while other posters kind of missed the point or exaggerated my words in a way i didn't mean them.
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2011-09-20, 08:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2008
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- North Carolina, USA
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Re: OOTS #806 - The Discussion Thread
I've not played 3.5 since 4e came out, but I thought that Heal would have restored Elan's negative levels. Am I mistaken in this?
Also, the cleric feather fall bit had me literally laughing out loud. It was one of the best OotS jokes in a long time. I was literally wondering, "What the heck is he going to cast?" Then a heal? Oh man, so brilliant and so Durkon.Thank you Ceika for the wonderful Avatar avatar!
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2011-09-20, 08:49 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2011
Re: OOTS #806 - The Discussion Thread
Avatar by A Rainy Knight
Spoiler: CharactersTarok and Kamo, level 6 half-orc ranger, bunyip-slayer, and all around badass.
I like half-orcs
Retired:
Aldrin Cress, level 10 human sorcerer. Hero of Korvosa.
Tireas Slate, level 4 tiefling ninja. Eternally scheming.
DMing: Dragon's Demand
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2011-09-20, 09:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2006
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- +49 Germany, 66123 Saarbrücken
Re: OOTS #806 - The Discussion Thread
Seems as a non-native speaker I just don't get Elan's take on Holy Word. Ditch? Trench? Bagel? Cany anyone explain please?
A word that describes the sound a thing would make if that thing made a sound though actually it doesn\'t, but would if it did.
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2011-09-20, 09:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2008
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- UK
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Re: OOTS #806 - The Discussion Thread
I've been giving a little thought to this and the most straightforward answer seems to be the likely one - the Linear Guild are not stupid.
A recurring boss in a computer game will have essentially the same skills and attacks as it did the first few times you fought it, maybe with a very slight variation. This is because a computer game boss is usually designed to be nothing more than a speed bump on the way to a final goal. It makes for a dull predictable challenge that's not particularly exciting.
Dull, predictable and not exciting do not make for good webcomic reading *coughdominicdeegancough*. An unexpected attack from the Linear Guild forces the Order to think and react in unexpected ways (cat + belt, unleashing Amun Zora, the portable Koboldic arrow dispenser) and keeps things lively and interesting.
If the above is too hard to follow, let me put it another way. The Linear Guild reads TV Tropes (probably what drove them to evil in the first place). They make a careful note of all the things a recurring BBEG is supposed to, then hurled it out of the window.
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2011-09-20, 09:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2008
Re: OOTS #806 - The Discussion Thread
Yeah, Heal doesn't remove negative levels.
A ditch or a trench would have provided cover to further Enervations and long-range attacks. A bagel would have solved all their problems from the get go, or is just a comedy cherry-on-top of the list.
vvv Uh, that, too, I guess!Last edited by OracleofWuffing; 2011-09-20 at 09:19 AM.
"Okay, so I'm going to quick draw and dual wield these one-pound caltrops as improvised weapons..."
---
"Oh, hey, look! Blue Eyes Black Lotus!" "Wait what, do you sacrifice a mana to the... Does it like, summon a... What would that card even do!?" "Oh, it's got a four-energy attack. Completely unviable in actual play, so don't worry about it."
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2011-09-20, 09:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
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Re: OOTS #806 - The Discussion Thread
So you never have to interrupt a game to look up a rule again:
My 3.5e Rules Cheat Sheets: Normal, With Consolidated Skill System
TOGC's 3.5e Spell/etc Cards: rpgnow / drivethru rpg
Utilities: Magic Item Shop Generator (Req. MS Excel), Balanced Low Magic Item System
Printable Cardstock Dungeon Tiles and other terrain stuff (100 MB)
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2011-09-20, 09:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2011
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2011-09-20, 09:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
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- Seattle
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Re: OOTS #806 - The Discussion Thread
Why would it be unusual for magic-users with centuries to ponder their warfighting problems to defensively mine their boundary river or to develop a way to punch through a wall that has been a known issue also for centuries?
Elrond and Saruman were really smart (...not necessarily wise, but that's another issue ...) and had thousands of years of battles from which to identify combat issues needing to be worked on. LotR is told from the POV of low-technology peasants, so of course the use of tripwires and bombs would seem amazing; sort of like how children during WW1 might have reacted badly to aeroplanes invading their sceptered isle.Last edited by rewinn; 2011-09-20 at 09:55 AM.
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2011-09-20, 09:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2006
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- Raleigh NC
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2011-09-20, 10:01 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
Re: OOTS #806 - The Discussion Thread
Or read the forums for speculations and learn the Sliders version, where EVERY possible action does happen.
Not everything needs to happen on-screen, not everything needs to be foreshadowed. If we knew exactly what was going to happen in the future all the time, DnD wouldn't come with dice.
Unfair fights are exactly what I always received when I played.
Great comic.Avatar of Vlad Taltos and Loiosh by Bradakhan
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2011-09-20, 10:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2007
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- Nebraska
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Re: OOTS #806 - The Discussion Thread
Great strip, glad to see Durkon back. If I were Durkon, I might start looking for a more attentive god.
Oh and Giant, you are on fire! I read through the comments and love your replies.
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2011-09-20, 10:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2006
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- Germany
Re: OOTS #806 - The Discussion Thread
Oh come on. Screw you, Thor.
If this was a D&d game, this is the point where I would be yelling, "gamemaster arbitrariness!"
Also, unless Nale cast Enervation literally in the same round that Durkon cast Heal on Elan and Elan babbled at Durkon, then Durkon needs to react faster. The idea of Death Ward is casting is before you are hit with a drain! Or if Durkan had depetrified Haley instead of casting Holy Smite, Haley could have shot down Sabine while Durkon put Mass Death Ward on everyone. Durkon just has no grasp of tactics, I guess. That's what Roy is for.
"Donut" would have worked, too.
It wasn't a very good pun, but it was appropriate to Elan's INT and WIS.
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2011-09-20, 10:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2011
Re: OOTS #806 - The Discussion Thread
Anyone wonder how "Miss Succubus" can even fly with Nale clutched close to her (or aerially bull rush Elan into the tower wall in #805 ) ?
Normal succubi have a strength of 13, but flyers routinely need to keep at light load to fly at all... so either the twins are utter lightweights (as in "paper maché" ), or she has a Str of at least 21 or higher... estimating Nale/Elan at a very optimistic minimum 150 lbs, and not taking anyone's equipment into account. Otherwise... we are looking at a 24 or higher strength ? On a succubus rogue ?
Nevermind her grappling and pinning Elan while still airborne to kiss him against his will, while flying in #805 or back in #793.... Odd, to put it mildly.
Almost as much as V obviously being far too dumb to memorize even a single "Dispel Magic".. or conveniently failing his Will-save against "Plane Shift"
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2011-09-20, 10:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2006
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- Germany
Re: OOTS #806 - The Discussion Thread
Narrativium at work. (Of which the Rule of Cool and Murphy's Law are sub-sections.)
Or, if we want to be rules-lawyerish about it: maybe Sabine wears a belt (or other item) of giant strength. As long as it's not a chastity-belt...
There's a difference between
a) things happening arbitrarily with no logical reason other than "otherwise the plot wouldn't work" (also known as an Idiot Plot, or "any plot that would be resolved in five minutes if everyone in the story were not an idiot"), or
b) things happening that the protagonist has no explanation for at the time it happens but which has a logical reason to be there.
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2011-09-20, 10:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2011
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- Virginia
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Re: OOTS #806 - The Discussion Thread
Heh, durkon is defeated by bunions.
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2011-09-20, 10:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2009
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- Gotham City
Re: OOTS #806 - The Discussion Thread
It isn't unusual, just as it wouldn't be unusual for Nale to be able to aquire a relatively inexpensive magical item. You are actually arguing my point.
If you are worried about my use of the term "inexplicably" that shouldn't be interpreted to mean "Tolkien pulled it out of his butt" but that "Tolkien doesn't explicate what the magic is or how it was acquired." To read it as the former would be to read my post in a negative way that isn't warranted by anything I said or responded to.
My post doesn't really have anything to do with idiot plots. Are you clarifying my point or trying to refute something I said?Last edited by ThePhantasm; 2011-09-20 at 10:36 AM.
"And yet, will we ever come to an end of discussion and talk if we think we must always reply to replies? For replies come from those who either cannot understand what is said to them, or are so stubborn and contentious that they refuse to give in even if they do understand." - St. Augustine
The Index of the Giant's Comments | Thanks, Bradakhan, for the avatar!
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2011-09-20, 11:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
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- USA
Re: OOTS #806 - The Discussion Thread
Either that's a really flimsy mace, or it should be a focus.
Vaarsuvius has a strength penalty, yet can carry Durkon, armor and all, while flying. I think weight limits do not count while the carrier is flying. In OotS, anyway.
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2011-09-20, 11:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2011
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Re: OOTS #806 - The Discussion Thread
I think this discussion has become mired. I believe that most of us, regardless of our opinion on the acceptability on certain events in LotR, agree on the main point, which is that neither Nale pulling out that wand nor Durkon's spell fizzling qualify as Deus Ex Machina, and that even if they did, it still wouldn't be bad storytelling.
Last edited by Gilphon; 2011-09-20 at 11:32 AM.
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2011-09-20, 12:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
Re: OOTS #806 - The Discussion Thread
The 'Cleric's Feather Fall' was absolutely perfect!
This may have been mentioned already, but the word 'holy' (divine, sacred, etc.) sounds just like 'holey' (describing something that fundamentally is a hole, like a ditch or trench...or possesses one, in the case of a bagel).
Elan, in his lovable idiocy, mistook one set of meanings for the other. Rather than the spell Holy Word, he thinks Durkon was going to threaten Nale/Sabine with a word about holes.Last edited by otakufan; 2011-09-20 at 12:15 PM.
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2011-09-20, 12:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2006
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- Turku, Finland
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2011-09-20, 12:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2011
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2011-09-20, 12:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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Re: OOTS #806 - The Discussion Thread
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2011-09-20, 12:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2011
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2011-09-20, 12:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2011
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- Dromund Kaas
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Re: OOTS #806 - The Discussion Thread
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2011-09-20, 12:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2011
Re: OOTS #806 - The Discussion Thread
Something is very fishy here.
Let me elaborate: in the same strip Durkon casts 'Heal' with no problem whatsoever. Also, never before (if I remember correctly) did the angels have trouble understanding his accent with regard to spell names, until now. I don't believe this happened for no plot-related reason. This leads me to believe that maybe there is deliberate outside interference, someone off-screen creating 'white noise' on purpose in the 'spellcasting hotline'.
Two likely candidates, having the magical capacity to pull this, would be:
1)the Directors: the imp already warned Sabine to back off from the fight, as he believes the Linear Guild cannot win this, and the Directors obviously need them alive for some reason, as is implied in their last conversation.
2)Malack. Ok, I have no real evidence to support the following, but something is definitely off about him. He is not seen in the arena, so he could be lurking anywhere, and being buddy-buddy with Durkon all this time could be a ploy to learn Durkon's spells and develop a strategy on how to sabotage them effectively. What doesn't fit is that he probably wouldn't work for the Linear Guild (except to advance some unrelated plan -possibly Tarquin's?).
If we follow the logic of TV-Tropes and some metagaming, Malack would be a Checkhov's gunman, waiting to strike and reveal the whole subplot of the arc. Tarquin is no fool and has his people everywhere around.
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2011-09-20, 01:00 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2008
Re: OOTS #806 - The Discussion Thread
A partial unrelated question: is every issue commentary a collection of unstoppable mass-guessing and/or rulelawing?