Diablo III: Not Just a Vitality Race!

[Karoht]

@Vit Stacking
Funny Story.
I like challenges. Back in Diablo 1 I solo'd my way through normal and nightmare difficulty with no equipment on with my Warrior. Yeup, I punched things. A lot. And it carried me pretty far. My friends and I used to call it "Bruce Lee Mode"

So in Diablo 2, I tried this with my Sorceress and my Amazon.
Alone, no equipment (except for my bow and ammo on my Amazon) I walked through Normal and Nightmare mode without issue. Hell Difficulty?
Hell Difficulty took me all of a full 2 days to full clear. Act 5 got very very slow, with more hit and run tactics being required.
Baal on Hell? At /players 8?
Pot spammed with my Amazon. My Sorceress never had her mana shield break, even with his mana burn curse. I also want to point out that teleporting would run me out of mana pretty darned quick so I didn't bother, and just ran from everything.
Both took about 30 minutes to kill. Hell Diablo gave me more trouble. Hell Duriel killed me about 8 times on my Sorc before I managed a decent entrance into the room, and kited successfully.

I had points everywhere. I didn't Vit stack. I also had very unfocused skill builds on both characters (I like having a wide variety to work with).
So yeah, the arguement that Vit stacking was required for Hell? Sorry, I don't buy that. Highly recommended? Sure. Required? Nah.

The really scary part of this story? A friend of mine did it with nothing but a single weapon, in the hands of his Leap focused Barbarian. And he killed Hell Baal in under 5 minutes.

@Stat Distribution
I would like to have some choice, and more choice than 'stack Vit' is better than none. On the other hand, I also rather enjoy the idea that just about every build in D3 for a given class will be viable from one character. And quickly too. I'm willing to give up Stat distribution (including with skills, yes, I'm over it) for that kind of flexibility.

People talk about how characters were so diverse in D2, but really when it comes down to it most people only ever used one, maybe two abilities, because that was simply what the system encouraged you to do. And since the higher-level skills were so much better than the lower-level ones, you were also encouraged to not spend any points at all until you had already cleared much of the game's content. Really, looking back, the system as a whole is just hopelessly antiquated.

This. Emphatically. Amazing how many 'antiquated' people are moaning about it on the forums. Oh well.

[Psyren]

People talk about how characters were so diverse in D2, but really when it comes down to it most people only ever used one, maybe two abilities, because that was simply what the system encouraged you to do. And since the higher-level skills were so much better than the lower-level ones, you were also encouraged to not spend any points at all until you had already cleared much of the game's content. Really, looking back, the system as a whole is just hopelessly antiquated.

I agree with your first conclusion but not your second. After that one patch (1.10?) when synergies were introduced, a lot of the lower level stuff became extremely powerful; Necros suddenly became able to take Diablo on with their skeleton horde (or even head to the cow level with them), Paladins were Smiting the crap out of Duriel, and of course Sorcs were flooding the screen with powerful Charged Bolts. Even builds that relied on a high-level skill (like Orbsorcs or Bonemancers) had a lower-level skill to synergize it (Ice Bolt, Teeth) and could therefore sink points into that while leveling. The days of hoarding your points for 40 levels while being rushed through everything were over; not spending your points on the lower synergy skills actually made your mainstay weaker once you finally got it.

[AgentPaper]

I agree with your first conclusion but not your second. After that one patch (1.10?) when synergies were introduced, a lot of the lower level stuff became extremely powerful; Necros suddenly became able to take Diablo on with their skeleton horde (or even head to the cow level with them), Paladins were Smiting the crap out of Duriel, and of course Sorcs were flooding the screen with powerful Charged Bolts. Even builds that relied on a high-level skill (like Orbsorcs or Bonemancers) had a lower-level skill to synergize it (Ice Bolt, Teeth) and could therefore sink points into that while leveling. The days of hoarding your points for 40 levels while being rushed through everything were over; not spending your points on the lower synergy skills actually made your mainstay weaker once you finally got it.

This is true, though it came with it's own problems. As soon as you put a point into one skill, you're pretty much locked in to max out every single other skill that has synergies with it, or with the skill you eventually plan to use.

[Psyren]

This is true, though it came with it's own problems. As soon as you put a point into one skill, you're pretty much locked in to max out every single other skill that has synergies with it, or with the skill you eventually plan to use.

Nah, not really. It optimizes your damage with that skill, but doing so is not necessary to be viable and can actively hurt you if the element you're maximizing is easily resisted.

For example, no dual-element sorc builds can maximize all their synergies with both key skills. For a Meteorb build for instance, you will at a minimum want max Orb and max Meteor (with 1 point in Cold Mastery), then go on to Fire Mastery, then max Fireball, and finish up with a few more points in Cold Mastery (not maxed - it has diminshing returns). However, Meteor has another synergy (Fire Bolt) which you are forced to ignore if you want decent cold damage. Doing so hurts the damage of your meteor, but the payoff is that you do decent damage with two elements instead of overwhelming damage with one and becoming useless against half the enemies in Hell.

Bottom line is that it depends on your build. Some builds rely on magic damage (e.g. bonemancers and hammerdins) which few enemies are immune to, while others have two elements built right into their synergies (e.g. Wind Druids, who deal massive cold and physical damage with the same build.)

[Starwulf]

@Vit Stacking
Funny Story.
I like challenges. Back in Diablo 1 I solo'd my way through normal and nightmare difficulty with no equipment on with my Warrior. Yeup, I punched things. A lot. And it carried me pretty far. My friends and I used to call it "Bruce Lee Mode"

So in Diablo 2, I tried this with my Sorceress and my Amazon.
Alone, no equipment (except for my bow and ammo on my Amazon) I walked through Normal and Nightmare mode without issue. Hell Difficulty?
Hell Difficulty took me all of a full 2 days to full clear. Act 5 got very very slow, with more hit and run tactics being required.
Baal on Hell? At /players 8?
Pot spammed with my Amazon. My Sorceress never had her mana shield break, even with his mana burn curse. I also want to point out that teleporting would run me out of mana pretty darned quick so I didn't bother, and just ran from everything.
Both took about 30 minutes to kill. Hell Diablo gave me more trouble. Hell Duriel killed me about 8 times on my Sorc before I managed a decent entrance into the room, and kited successfully.

I had points everywhere. I didn't Vit stack. I also had very unfocused skill builds on both characters (I like having a wide variety to work with).
So yeah, the arguement that Vit stacking was required for Hell? Sorry, I don't buy that. Highly recommended? Sure. Required? Nah.

The really scary part of this story? A friend of mine did it with nothing but a single weapon, in the hands of his Leap focused Barbarian. And he killed Hell Baal in under 5 minutes.

@Stat Distribution
I would like to have some choice, and more choice than 'stack Vit' is better than none. On the other hand, I also rather enjoy the idea that just about every build in D3 for a given class will be viable from one character. And quickly too. I'm willing to give up Stat distribution (including with skills, yes, I'm over it) for that kind of flexibility.



This. Emphatically. Amazing how many 'antiquated' people are moaning about it on the forums. Oh well.

Lol, I actually did the same thing in Diablo, but I did it with the Hellfire Expansion Monk character. Speaking of, how many people here played the Hellfire Expansion? How many played it with that one fan patch that added in about 500 different uniques, and upped the normal difficulty level to that of nightmare, nightmare to hell, and hell to ultra-hell? Ahh, such fond memories of that ^^

Yeah, I probably should have phrased better. I understand Vit Stacking, I just don't "get" it. Always seemed cheap to me unless I was building a very specific character that truly required it(Uber-killing Paladin, pvp).

I don't know, even with all the builds being viable, I would still prefer having control over my own stat placement. I guess there is a reason why my favorite type of games are D&D types or Open World Sandboxes like Morrowind, where I have full control over my character. I guess that's what drew me into the Diablo Franchise in the first place(well, that and the classic "Fresh Meat" Line when I first saw the game being played by a friend). Regardless, as you've said, I'll be able to live with it, especially if the rest of the game is as fun and diverse as has bee indicated.

[Karoht]

Yeah, but when those attribute points are just stats, it's academic to me.
Skill points I'll probably miss for a little while, because there is where it feels like real choice. But the active skill system in D3? It feels like real freedom to me.

And if 6 Active's and 3 Passives with boat loads of combo's isn't enough for me, maybe one of the expansions will include an extra Active/Passive slot or something.

Can't wait until Blizzcon, when released dates and major announcements (for quite a few things actually) are highly anticipated.

[Starwulf]

Yeah, but when those attribute points are just stats, it's academic to me.
Skill points I'll probably miss for a little while, because there is where it feels like real choice. But the active skill system in D3? It feels like real freedom to me.

And if 6 Active's and 3 Passives with boat loads of combo's isn't enough for me, maybe one of the expansions will include an extra Active/Passive slot or something.

Can't wait until Blizzcon, when released dates and major announcements (for quite a few things actually) are highly anticipated.

Mmm, Blizzcon. I was going to go there last year with a buddy who was Stationed over in Japan, but he couldn't get leave to fly over here, and I didn't feel like driving from Maryland to Cali by myself >< I really hope they give a definite release date for it, finally. Also hope they say it's this year! Will give me 3 primary games I want between my birthday(November), and Christmas. Skyrim, Skyward Sword, and Diablo 3. Not sure how I"ll give all 3 games the attention they deserve though! Maybe I'll research a way to split myself into 3 people(naruto Shadow Clones!), buy a second computer, and play all 3 at once!

I also wonder if they will finally do more then one expansion for a change. First Diablo was ok with just Hellfire(it was really more of a stand-alone anyways to be honest), but Diablo 2, even with LoD, felt a bit incomplete. Hopefully, since they've been in the "multiple expansions" mode lately, what with WoW, and kind of SC2(not sure if you can call the other 2 games being released expansions, they are all just SC2 as a whole, just so big they required their own games), they'll be open to making a 2nd expansion for D3 instead of just one :) Especially given how much more of the Diablo universe is going to be open to us this time. A LOT more room for them to explore various areas in expansions.

[Karoht]

I also wonder if they will finally do more then one expansion for a change. First Diablo was ok with just Hellfire(it was really more of a stand-alone anyways to be honest), but Diablo 2, even with LoD, felt a bit incomplete. Hopefully, since they've been in the "multiple expansions" mode lately, what with WoW, and kind of SC2(not sure if you can call the other 2 games being released expansions, they are all just SC2 as a whole, just so big they required their own games), they'll be open to making a 2nd expansion for D3 instead of just one :) Especially given how much more of the Diablo universe is going to be open to us this time. A LOT more room for them to explore various areas in expansions.

Hellfire was not released by Blizzard. Just saying.

D3 is planned to have 2 expansions at minimum, and possibly some patched in content as well. Going on sources I've seen (which so far have been very accurate), as well as sources I can't discuss.

Patched in content might be serious stuff as a means of gating progression, or it might be silly stuff such as additional 'secret' levels (the new one is ponies instead of cows, seriously) or other optional content, uber modes/zones, etc.

I've even heard rumor of a custom content creator in the works, but that one really is just rumor mill.

[Starwulf]

Hellfire was not released by Blizzard. Just saying.

D3 is planned to have 2 expansions at minimum, and possibly some patched in content as well. Going on sources I've seen (which so far have been very accurate), as well as sources I can't discuss.

Patched in content might be serious stuff as a means of gating progression, or it might be silly stuff such as additional 'secret' levels (the new one is ponies instead of cows, seriously) or other optional content, uber modes/zones, etc.

I've even heard rumor of a custom content creator in the works, but that one really is just rumor mill.

hehe, yeah, Hellfire was by Sierra ^^ Still a fun add-on, even if it didn't really do anything for the main story(again, not that there was much left needed to be said).

Awesome to hear that we are going to get at least 2 expansions for Diablo 3, and even some other content on top of that! Hilarious about the ponies as well, rofl :) I'll be surprised if they actually give us mod tools though to make our own custom content, that would be more indicative of a single-player for the most part(not always, but usually. SC is an exception, but those aren't entire scenarios, just single maps released by people. Making an entire scenario, and having it be downloadable by the public at large and played online would require a lot of extra effort on blizzards part I would think(I could/likely am wrong though, I know nothing about coding unfortunately). Regardless, happy to hear that they have a lot of stuff planned for us. Maybe there won't be such a massively long drought in between Diablo 3 and Diablo 4 like there was between 2 and 3 ^^.

[Karoht]

hehe, yeah, Hellfire was by Sierra ^^ Still a fun add-on, even if it didn't really do anything for the main story(again, not that there was much left needed to be said).

Awesome to hear that we are going to get at least 2 expansions for Diablo 3, and even some other content on top of that! Hilarious about the ponies as well, rofl :) I'll be surprised if they actually give us mod tools though to make our own custom content, that would be more indicative of a single-player for the most part(not always, but usually. SC is an exception, but those aren't entire scenarios, just single maps released by people. Making an entire scenario, and having it be downloadable by the public at large and played online would require a lot of extra effort on blizzards part I would think(I could/likely am wrong though, I know nothing about coding unfortunately). Regardless, happy to hear that they have a lot of stuff planned for us. Maybe there won't be such a massively long drought in between Diablo 3 and Diablo 4 like there was between 2 and 3 ^^.

The words I heard used were "Campaign Creator" in relation to Diablo 3. DnD night but with Diablo maybe? Build your own quests, set up the environment, fill in text bubbles, add in monster types, select dungeont type to randomize (pick the environment, it randomizes the map as normal) invite your friends and go to town. Thats the sort of thing it immediately brings to mind.

Making an entire scenario, and having it be downloadable by the public at large and played online would require a lot of extra effort on blizzards part I would think

When the Battle.net market place goes live (eventually) this is the sort of thing it's built to pass around. SC2 is already doing this, just with less information. Remember, the terrain types and textures are already on your computer when you get the game. It's not like you have to re-download them with every map or scenario or dungeon or whatever.

[The Glyphstone]

No Cow Level? Whaaaaaat?

[Gamerlord]

No Cow Level? Whaaaaaat?

I looked at what were supposedly MPQ files of a leaked version of the US client, and if it wasn't an incredibly elaborate troll, it appears there might be a pony level.

[ZeltArruin]

No Cow Level? Whaaaaaat?

thereisnocowlevel

[Karoht]

I like fast Monks and slow ponies.

[ZeltArruin]

I like fast Monks and slow ponies.

Next thread title, if we get that far?

[Karoht]

Next thread title, if we get that far?

YUS!


For anyone who needs a bit more explanation on that, it's a reference to the film Sherlock Holmes as well.
"Mr So-and-so took it. Insurance scam. He likes fast women and slow ponies."

Equally cool are fast barbarians and slow ponies. That one's a bit more messy though.

[gooddragon1]

For those having a hard time surviving hell difficulty, here is a character build with a decent chance at it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeLVpX7FTMw

[Starwulf]

So, sadly, Blizzard has decided to not release Diablo 3 this year, instead delaying it until 2012, due to them feeling that the game is just not ready :-(. Le'Sigh. was hoping might get to play it this Christmas, but alas, twas just a pipe-dream.

[ZeltArruin]

So, sadly, Blizzard has decided to not release Diablo 3 this year, instead delaying it until 2012, due to them feeling that the game is just not ready :-(. Le'Sigh. was hoping might get to play it this Christmas, but alas, twas just a pipe-dream.

That is old news, isn't it? I thought they said Q1 2012 since the summer?

[Nargan]

So, sadly, Blizzard has decided to not release Diablo 3 this year, instead delaying it until 2012, due to them feeling that the game is just not ready :-(. Le'Sigh. was hoping might get to play it this Christmas, but alas, twas just a pipe-dream.

Welcome to Blizzard, inventors of Soon(TM), the widely used developers fragrance for men.

[AgentPaper]

Just finished playing the PvP beta at blizzcon, and it was a ton of fun. The combat was fast, brutal, and very visceral. Importantly, despite the rapid pace, I never felt like I wasn't able to do anything unless I was outnumbered 3 to 1. even then, I could at least escape most of the time. There was also a very fast respawn of 3-4 seconds, so I was never out of the fight for long. My favorites to play were the barbarian and monk, and the sorceress seemed solid, though not really my style. The witch doctor and the demon hunter seemed kinda lackluster though. They could put out pretty decent damage, but it didn't really feel like they brought enough to the fight compared to how squishy they are. Even the wizard had her diamond shield at least.

[Dhavaer]

Got a message half an hour ago that the collector's edition had been announced, and google got this. Looks nice to me, but I hope the Diablo 2 on the soulstone is compatible with Windows 7.

[Kesnit]

Looks nice to me, but I hope the Diablo 2 on the soulstone is compatible with Windows 7.

Don't see why it wouldn't be. I have the Diablo Battle Chest (from pre-Win7 days) and can install and run Diablo 2 on my Win7 system.

[The Glyphstone]

So I watched the newest cinematic trailer...is it just me, or does the new big bad look a whole lot like the endboss of Act 2 in D2?

[Suichimo]

So I watched the newest cinematic trailer...is it just me, or does the new big bad look a whole lot like the endboss of Act 2 in D2?

He does look a lot like Duriel but, IIRC, that is Azmodan. Since there are four others beyond Azmodan, hopefully that means a base of five acts. And who knows how the angels are going to factor into all of this.

[Starwulf]

He does look a lot like Duriel but, IIRC, that is Azmodan. Since there are four others beyond Azmodan, hopefully that means a base of five acts. And who knows how the angels are going to factor into all of this.

Wasn't Azmodan the Big Bad in the Diablo 1 expansion "Hellfire" by Sierra?

[hamishspence]

Nope- that was an all-new demon called "Na-Krul".

From the D1 manual, there were only 7 "Great Evils" (4 Lesser, 3 Prime) - the 4 Lessers were Andariel, Duriel, Azmodan & Belial.

Andariel & Duriel both make appearances in D2.

[Avilan the Grey]

Okay, so what classes will you play first?

I am really excited about the Demon Hunter (I loved the D1 Rogue) but after that I don't really have a favorite so far. The only one I am NOT interested in is the Monk, for some reason.

[faceroll]

So I watched the newest cinematic trailer...is it just me, or does the new big bad look a whole lot like the endboss of Act 2 in D2?

I did at first, but then I realized he reminded me more of Mannoroth from Warcraft 3. Duriel looks more like a hydralisk. Kinda serpentine or insectile, as opposed to toadlike

Nope- that was an all-new demon called "Na-Krul".

I thought Hellfire was kind of silly compared to Diablo. It just didn't feel as serious or something. I was a little disappointed in it, to be honest. Tomes of Apocalypse were pretty sweet, though the Apocalypse nerf kinda ruins it (can't hit targets behind walls).

[Karoht]

He does look a lot like Duriel but, IIRC, that is Azmodan. Since there are four others beyond Azmodan, hopefully that means a base of five acts. And who knows how the angels are going to factor into all of this.

And don't forget, 2 planned expansions. 5 acts at launch would be awesome, I admit, but I'm not holding my breath. Could happen though.