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2011-10-09, 07:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. IX
Thank you very much, now I have another question, & feel free to ignore if you think that this derails the thread. What you you assume the damage of a nagimaka is? 1d10 /18-20x3? 2d6 /19-20? I kind of think it could work as an exotic two handed bastard sword with better crits (longer shaft makes for more damage once it's in you) with the brace ability.
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2011-10-09, 07:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. IX
We cannot discuss game statistics in this thread, but feel free to start a new thread to deal with such questions.
It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after one’s own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between.
– Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350), Tsurezure-Gusa (1340)
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2011-10-09, 08:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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2011-10-10, 12:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2005
Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. IX
The reason sailors didn't wear shoes weren't rot, but safety and cost. Leather shoes were expensive and provided little in way of grip. Rope sandals on the other hand were usually free, since they måde them themself drøm scrap rope and old canvas. Still, many prefered bare feet since they couldn't fall off when they climbed in the rigging.
A hanger is a variation of the cutlass.
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2011-10-10, 03:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. IX
Hanger is a generic term for a sword that "hangs" at your side. During the period you describe, it's a fairly short sword with a curved blade -- kind of like a cutlass, but not so heavy.
As for leather at sea, I don't know exactly what sea water would due to leather, but it's probably not that deleterious. Leather typically needs to be cared for (with oils) anyway. Living in a dry climate, my leather gear often feels better if I spend some time in a humid one (although I haven't been to the shore with it).
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2011-10-10, 03:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2008
Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. IX
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2011-10-10, 04:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2005
Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. IX
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2011-10-10, 05:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2010
Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. IX
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2011-10-10, 05:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2009
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Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. IX
Most examples I know off are single edged curved blades.
Nagamaki are similar to katana, but with a handle as long as the blade.
A falx is similar, but has the blade bent inward like a sickle, and I wouldn't exactly call it a sword.
I don't think assegai fits. It's really just a short spear.Last edited by Yora; 2011-10-10 at 05:39 AM.
We are not standing on the shoulders of giants, but on very tall tower of other dwarves.
Spriggan's Den Heroic Fantasy Roleplaying
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2011-10-10, 07:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. IX
I've seen examples of what I believe are boarding pikes that matches that description.
1,5m shaft and about 60cm sword-like blade.
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2011-10-10, 07:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. IX
There is this stuff/staff, mainly Swedish/Scandinavian in origin it seems.
Might have indeed been part of the broken sword hafted like that, or solid cut/thrust blade mounted on long haft, so may somewhat fit to the description...Last edited by Spiryt; 2011-10-10 at 07:33 AM.
Avatar by KwarkpuddingThe subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing;
Rush in and die, dogs—I was a man before I was a king.
Whoever makes shoddy beer, shall be thrown into manure - town law from Gdańsk, XIth century.
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2011-10-10, 12:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2005
Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. IX
The proportions were different, but that's essentially what I saw.
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2011-10-10, 12:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. IX
Fhaolan by me! Raga avatar by Mephibosheth!
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2011-10-10, 12:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. IX
Short and totally different question: If a martial artist/pugilist would wrap his hands in medieval times, what kind of wraps would he use? I mean form, material etc... I guess it might be different considering where the person comes from, but would be a type of wrap that suits the purpose and is accessible in those times?
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2011-10-10, 12:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. IX
This is not really very short though, compared to glaive....
And AFAIR, european glaive generally have one edge, with some kind of rib portruding from the haft and/or doesn't generally taper to a uniform point.
But yeah, no consistency is a fact, and as far as use of this thing goes, glaive probably can easily work.
That can be pretty difficult, beacuse as far as I am aware, no real striking arts were preserved, at least from Europe, if we're talking about medieval.
There's plenty of wrestling, locks, and whatever, both with arms and armor, and bare hands, but nothing really concerning intense punching other dudes.
There are images of Greek pankrationists having their wrists and hands wrapped, but it's antiquity, and it's hard to guess what could it have been. Maybe there are some written sources about it.Avatar by KwarkpuddingThe subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing;
Rush in and die, dogs—I was a man before I was a king.
Whoever makes shoddy beer, shall be thrown into manure - town law from Gdańsk, XIth century.
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2011-10-10, 12:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2009
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Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. IX
The word "glaive" is a particularly bad offender here. Or the word had been raped the worst by people who have no idea what the word means. Effect is the same.
We are not standing on the shoulders of giants, but on very tall tower of other dwarves.
Spriggan's Den Heroic Fantasy Roleplaying
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2011-10-10, 01:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. IX
Interestingly, and I know I have mentioned this before, glaive was used in medieval French poetry for sword, as well as being a medieval French word for spear.
Last edited by Matthew; 2011-10-10 at 01:25 PM.
It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after one’s own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between.
– Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350), Tsurezure-Gusa (1340)
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2011-10-10, 01:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. IX
And here I was thinking that a sword is the only kind of bladed weapon that would never be called a glaive. Silly me.
We are not standing on the shoulders of giants, but on very tall tower of other dwarves.
Spriggan's Den Heroic Fantasy Roleplaying
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2011-10-10, 01:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. IX
Forms are difficult, because a lot of unarmed combat methods weren't preserved the same way they were preserved in Asia. You'd see punching, kicking, and wrestling, but it's not like they did it to teach you a primary method of self defense or were trying to hide something subversive.
That being said, the Minoans used cloth wrappings. Ancient Grecian handwraps were originally cloth wrappings with leather cords as a knuckle-duster. Romans went and created the caestus by adding crazy spikes and blades to the Grecian wrap because they were crazy. But, they got rid of the caestus in 50 BC, and the banned boxing altogether in 393 AD.
People still punched each other hard in the face, but it wasn't really organized anywhere in the West except for maybe in Russia, where it was bareknuckle. The British brought prizefighting back in the 16~17th century and it was all bareknuckle at that point. They didn't start using gloves until Broughton's rules became popular.
TLDR; I wouldn't give them any gloves/wraps at all if you're modeling it after the European middle ages.
I'm not even sure if you would for Asia, either. The Thais/Cambodians were using handwraps with hemp rope in the 1800s, and one assumes this was developed gradually, but the stories about using the wraps with ground glass and plaster of paris and all that are apocryphal at best.
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2011-10-10, 01:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. IX
Dunno, I generally have seen it as underused if anything.... Like pretty wide scale of naginatas going as being similar to "halberds" (WTF?).
Only offense I can think of is Blizzard guys that from whatever reason concluded that glaive is something that you throw.
Interestingly, and I know I have mentioned this before, glaive was used in medieval French poetry for sword, as well as being a medieval French word for spear.
Etymology was probably quite simple, but hard to track....Avatar by KwarkpuddingThe subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing;
Rush in and die, dogs—I was a man before I was a king.
Whoever makes shoddy beer, shall be thrown into manure - town law from Gdańsk, XIth century.
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2011-10-10, 01:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. IX
They watched Krull. Which stared Kenneth "Lt. Eddington When He Had Hair" Marshall, Robbie "The Lost Mario Brother" Coltrane, Freddie "That's Not Michael Caine" Jones, and Liam "That's Not Liam Neeson" Neeson.
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2011-10-10, 02:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. IX
Thai martial artists have been known to use rope, and I would be surprised if the modern cloth wrapping hasn't been around for ages and ages. I'm not sure this would have been ubiquitous, though.
The primary use of wrapping the hands and wrists is to keep the wrist safe from injury due to bending or otherwise going out of alignment on impact. It does also protect the bones in the hands, but to a lesser extent. You can learn to keep the wrists straight and condition the hands, though — a common feature of East Asian martial arts, and one I'm sure has its European parallels.Originally Posted by KKL
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2011-10-10, 02:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. IX
Obviously, but even for the best strikers out there there will be injuries, not matter how conditioned are your hands.
As far as East Asian MA arts goes, I'm pretty sure that most of them that are competitive and at least semi contact, use wrapping and gloves in training and fighting as well - Muay Thai, Sanshou for example.Avatar by KwarkpuddingThe subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing;
Rush in and die, dogs—I was a man before I was a king.
Whoever makes shoddy beer, shall be thrown into manure - town law from Gdańsk, XIth century.
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2011-10-10, 02:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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2011-10-10, 03:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. IX
Now, there's no choice but to combine this:
Spoiler
with this:
Spoiler
Today photoshop, tomorrow, Hollywood.
Bonus points for him throwing it, Krull style, then.Avatar by KwarkpuddingThe subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing;
Rush in and die, dogs—I was a man before I was a king.
Whoever makes shoddy beer, shall be thrown into manure - town law from Gdańsk, XIth century.
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2011-10-11, 09:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. IX
Does anyone have any good data on how big and heavy siege engines typically were? Specifically, Trebuchets and Catapults.
Now, I know that there's of course a variety of sizes, but is there any thing "typical" for, roughly, the late middle ages? Weight would be especially important. You can find size data, normally, but I've never seen weight.Resident Vancian Apologist
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2011-10-11, 09:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. IX
The cool thing about trebuchets is, that they apparently work at any scale. You can make them as small or as big as you want and it works, so I would assume that they were used in a lot of different sizes. I guess the only limit would be how much stress the wood of the frame can handle, and how large boulders you could get to load it with.
On that topic, I like this video. No idea about historic accuracy, but a good example of what these guys try to aim the trebuchet.Last edited by Yora; 2011-10-11 at 09:58 AM.
We are not standing on the shoulders of giants, but on very tall tower of other dwarves.
Spriggan's Den Heroic Fantasy Roleplaying
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2011-10-13, 05:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. IX
Originally Posted by KKL
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2011-10-14, 10:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. IX
I like Kurt Douglas 1958 "The Vikings", it's at least in the ball park and holds up surprisingly well in spite of some odd casting decisions (Tony Curtius as a Saxon / Viking hahah)
More modern Vikings films are more flawed, but in some cases have some good realistic features.
My favorite is a somewhat low budget and not perfect but (in my opinion) pretty realistic "Beowulf and Grendel" of 2005
http://vikingsofbjornstad.gbtllc.com...ulfGrendel2005
This is NOT to be confused with the much more Hollywood and ridiculous (though still watchable Beowulf of 2007 with Angelina Jolie in it and the extremely strange version of Grendel with voice by the perrenially odd Crispin Glover)
Then there is the pretty realistic if dark Finnish movie Ofelas ("Pathfinder) of 1987
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093668/
Not to be confused with the crappy 2007 American remake
There is Severed Ways, a low-budget Viking film about two Norse explorers left behind in North America
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1062965/
It has at least one very gross out moment and is kind of silly in certain respects but is not a bad film, far better for example than the more recent similarly themed Valhalla Rising which was really aimless and terrible IMO (in spite of having Mads Mikkelsen in it who is a natural to be cast in any Viking film)
And there is this slightly bigger-budget Polish film Stara Basn
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0380726/
which is a visually very nice but flawed depiction of an old and popular story in Poland and as such was a disappointment to a lot of Poles but I think would be popular among most Americans with an interest in Vikings or Fantasy RPG type genres. It depicts Slavs and Vikings in conflict in an interesting way. The guys playing the Vikings are mostly Eastern European re-enactors with reasonably good kit (very good by Hollywood standards). If you can find it with English subtitles or dub I recommend it.
Here is a more complete list with short reviews
http://vikingsofbjornstad.gbtllc.com/VikingMovies.htm
G.Last edited by Galloglaich; 2011-10-14 at 10:24 AM.
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2011-10-14, 10:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Got a Real-World Weapon or Armor Question? Mk. IX
I would go along with that. Also, not to be confused with Beowulf and Grendel is Grendel, another truly awful film, not even salvaged for Star Trek fans by the presence of Marina Sirtis.
It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after one’s own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between.
– Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350), Tsurezure-Gusa (1340)