General Exalted Discussion Thread VII: Playground Eternal Essence

[Tavar]

I don't keep track of actors anyway!

Those two aren't actors....

You are specifically asking for my bias in an open thread? Lovely. Let me think about it for a time...very carefully.

Uh....not really getting the hostility here. You put forward a position. I inquired about it. Not seeing the issue.

[Gensh]

I want Gaia as my Guidance Counsilor!

I still have difficulty not thinking of Whoopie Goldberg as Gaia.

However, Gensh, I think it was obvious that you personally were not being addressed.

Certainly, but as you said, it's an open discussion. I think the main issue with this particular debate is that there's a lot of baggage attached and opinions are getting mixed. If everyone gives a definitive statement, then we can all decide exactly where we agree and disagree.

Those two aren't actors....

And there's your proof I'm not involved in pop culture in the slightest.

[Lord Raziere]

….great…..I set off another discussion again uh…..

hey everyone. look. instead of being completely radical in changing the Lunars, I have decided to go completely the opposite direction: change them as little as possible. make the lightest touches I can to fix their flaws.

so for knacks, all I'm going to do, it get rid of hearts blood, but keep the knacks.
how I'm going to do that, is make each form acquisition knack a more limited form of loom-snarling deception: one knack for humans, one for animals, and so on, the Lunars still shapeshift how they normally do, still have war form and any other forms like that, its just their range of forms is determined by what knacks they have and not what they have killed and eaten recently. so all a Lunar has to do to expand their range of shapeshifting is get a new knack, but it isn't as powerful as infernal shapeshifting because to replicate it, the Lunar would nee multiple knacks to do so.

I'm hoping, that by treading lightly, one step at a time, that I can gradually get Lunars closer to something more ideal. I will call this fix The Moonsilver Scalpel of Surgical Precision.

[aetherialDawn]

The Moonsilver Scalpel of Surgical Precision.

This is a pretty good artifact idea.
Perhaps a scalpel that literally cannot do otherwise than perform good surgery - if you slice someone's chest with this, it twists and shapes itself such that you've just cut them open in sterile fashion, cleaned up their ribcage a bit, and stitched them back together with moonlight.

[Lord Raziere]

…..Fine. Completely miss the point. Oh well, go make it if you have such a great idea for it, I'm sure you'd probably even do the artifact better than me.

and while I'm thinking up artifact ideas inadvertently, I have a Sidereal artifact idea: The Hand of Fate.
I have no idea what it does, but it sounds awesome, and would probably be a unique artifact.

[Kyeudo]

It's obviously a Starmetal Smashfist that punches people so hard, they gain the Destiny background, ensuring that the die horribly in a fire.

[Lord Raziere]

I was thinking of something more control-y and nuanced. What you just described could be termed more like "The Burning Fist of Fate"

but yea, a starmetal smashfist kind of thing.

[Xefas]

It's obviously a Starmetal Smashfist that punches people so hard, they gain the Destiny background, ensuring that the die horribly in a fire.

Glorious.



(edit: This is what happens when a forum doesn't have a 'thank' feature.)

[meschlum]

Story-Time: Not sure what's obscure about the Key. If it's what it enables, Chancels are on the OMGWTFBBQ side of artifacts, yes. If it's the general surrounding fluff, I might recommend getting in touch with another poster on this forum, a... Count? of some sort. Seems the sort of fellow who could tell you all about red cloaks, blood loss, and portals releasing huge numbers of hungry lives.


Now, then. To business!


The Gulf Bag

Back in the good old days of the Deliberative, the city of Norbia, in the south-west, was famous for its spicy seafood soup. Though it lay a few miles inland, the herbs that grew there were truly exceptional, and many an Exalted visited there in order to partake of the dish. One of these visitors was Desus, who came with Bright Shattered Ice in order to relax after a busy week of being just plain awesome.

On that day, the Exalted Host found out that some obscure forms of shellfish allergy survive even the process of Exaltation. The very next day, a wave of teacups landed across the West, and a formerly tasty species of crab was no more.

A few months later, a Primordial Behemoth was seen rampaging in the southern marches of Creation, and Desus was at hand to deal with the beast. Facing off against this terrible foe, which if left unstopped would have devastated all of Creation (or at least another few square miles of useless desert), the heroic Exalt called upon all his power and knowledge, as well as his trusty Grand Goremaul, and smote the Behemoth in a most Holy and approved of manner.

Nowadays, the Gulf of Norbia is famous for... not much of anything, really. On the other hand, the Raksha found Desus's deed of computation truly inspirational, and formed the Gulf Bag to commemorate the event. In the hands of a talented butler, the Bag will always produce the exact tool required for any sporting activity, and the butler can also provide discreet, and accurate advice.

Interlopers who are so gauche as to try and steal the Bag find it is empty, of course, and are liable to experience difficulties soon thereafter. Such as breathing.

1-dot Behemoth
Assumption of Dreams and Passion - it's a truly classy Bag, capable of containing any implement of blunt, pointy, or sharp trauma a mistress might require. And other things too.
Imposition of Law - the Bag can calculate vectors, force, and such with perfect accuracy, so as to recommend the ideal tool, angle, and strength to apply in order to pull off a desired trajectory. A talented butler will be content to suggest things like, "Perhaps the Reaper Daiklaive, in light Jade, would ensure a suitable splash?" "Would the mistress like a number four wood and titanium number for the mistresses' fiance's skull?" "Sir will find this racket shifts slightly to the left, and note that sir's opponent is a trifle weakened on that side".
Luminous Exhalation - when the Bag so desires, it can be filled to the brim with any amount of ammunition of any sort.

In practical terms, the Servant (or any capable butler) uses Unshaped Ring Transformation to a Wyld Weapon, transmuting it into whatever the mistress needs. Since it's best it were done quickly, Ordinary Object Conjuration can cover mundane devices, and Soul Carving Artifice (or the Key) will deal with turning a Grand Goremaul into Death At The Root. Between the moment the master decides what he'll play and the butler opens the Bag, that is.

If disturbed by one who is not a butler (or master), the Bag is empty, and capable of inflicting rather nasty bites.


I give you people a MatrixNetwork run by an Architect with (Lunar) Agents ensuring the people batteries stay well behaved, and what do I get? More requests.

Yay!

At a first pass, Kingdom Hearts looks easy. Writing the fluff is the hard part, and isn't helped by lack of familiarity with the setting. Or maybe it is, since I just need to reproduce the broad strokes.

Muahaha.

I have a plan. Will post later (i.e. 24-48-72 hours or so).

[Kyeudo]

(edit: This is what happens when a forum doesn't have a 'thank' feature.)

I have no objections to ponies.

[Rikandur Azebol]

Ponies would rule Creation better than Sol.
And I agree on the fact with Sol. Betrayal of expetations, what shouldn't be with his stats/ability to bully/convince anyone for 1 WP.

Come on. If Sol tried he could give Good and Virtuous ideas to Emerald Chaos with a little more effort than Dragon Shadow's lies and misdirections. And what Sol figured out ? Betrayal is better option. *sigh*
I know that complete annihilation of separate Creation-equivalent isn't even worth mentioning, since Sol was made as Ultimate Destroyer. And just played to his themes there properly.

[DeadManSleeping]

Look, if we got rid of everything in the setting that only served to create stupid problems and added nothing in return, all we'd have is a game about a bunch of colorful badasses globetrotting across a vaguely Asian fantasy world doing epic things and getting into wildly entertaining kung fu fights.

Is that what you want?

Just, Avatar with the power turned up to 11?

Is that what anyone wants?

Just this-
*snip*

-VS this-
*snip*

-all day?

Trust me. No one wants that.

I'm pretty sure this is more or less the exact thing that 90% of Exalted players picked up the book for in the first place, so I'd have to say, yes, people do want that.

And if you're trying to be sarcastic on the internet, you need an established persona that's not known for saying such silly things seriously.

[Dragnar]

This is a pretty good artifact idea.
Perhaps a scalpel that literally cannot do otherwise than perform good surgery - if you slice someone's chest with this, it twists and shapes itself such that you've just cut them open in sterile fashion, cleaned up their ribcage a bit, and stitched them back together with moonlight.

Aaannd... now I want to make a character with a healing shiv. He's a doctor, who goes about slicing people up with his magic sword. He does not inform them of it's healing properties first.

so all a Lunar has to do to expand their range of shapeshifting is get a new knack, but it isn't as powerful as infernal shapeshifting because to replicate it, the Lunar would nee multiple knacks to do so.

I... think you're overestimating infernals. It takes ONE knack to match Loom-Snarling Deception for disguise, because it can't disguise them as anything but humans. It's only advantage over lunars is that it's upgrade fools essence sight.

I'm pretty sure this is more or less the exact thing that 90% of Exalted players picked up the book for in the first place, so I'd have to say, yes, people do want that.

And if you're trying to be sarcastic on the internet, you need an established persona that's not known for saying such silly things seriously.

...well seeing as the first picture looks about 200% more awesome, I'm going to say yes, that was sarcasm.

[Drascin]

Oh hey, looks like while I was out I missed another fight on primordials and Sol.

I'm really okay with this .

I... think you're overestimating infernals. It takes ONE knack to match Loom-Snarling Deception for disguise, because it can't disguise them as anything but humans. It's only advantage over lunars is that it's upgrade fools essence sight.

It's a matter of convenience. Lunars need to go out and kill someone to be able to disgise themselves as a particular human, which makes them absolute crap at most stuff you'd want to turn into a particular human for and calls an incredible amount of attention. From what I hear, Infernals just need to pop some essence and there we go.

There's a reason none of my lunars have ever used heart's blood shapeshifting for impersonation - namely, in most situations it's tactical suicide and it's just much less to backfire on you if you just make an Excellency-backed Larceny disguise. And, well, if I'm playing what is supposed to be THE shapeshifter splat and I have to turn to mundane disguise rolls because they work better... something feels like it does not make sense.

[Dragnar]

Yes, Infernals can look like anyone for a few motes... Anyone who doesn't exist that is. It's impossible to use Loom-Snarling Deception to look like a real person. And while it is true that lunars need some better disguises, their shapeshifting is not exactly weak. Heck, most of the time? If a human disguise is of any use, a small rodent or insect works even better.

Or in short: Lunars rule at shapeshifting. They just stink at impersonation.

[Drascin]

I'm going to be completely honest - the only pieces of shapeshifting I have consistently found a use for with four Lunar characters I've played is are the Three Basics mobility forms (that is, one single bird, one single fish, one single small thing), and the warform. Heart's Bloods beyond the Three Basics are gotten primarily to feed Hybrid Body Rerrangement, because in most cases transforming wholly into something else is just not worth it.

And even then, in most cases, it's just not worth the hassle of managing to find a particular thing, stalking it for hours, and then eating its heart. It's a lot harder to get forms that provide certain useful mutations to HBR them than it is to buy a Charm.

Really, Lunar shapeshifting is mostly a mobility power, and at that, it's by far the absolute best mobility power in the game in terms of cost/power ratio. When you start thinking of it like that it becomes less dissapointing than if you expect to be able to play a doppleganger or a kitsune or something with a Lunar, because as is mechanics will laugh in your face.

[Lord Raziere]

yea, I want some shapeshifting which just changes human features without having to murder a human, or heck go through any process other than "I look like a different human now"

I mean sure Lunar shapeshifting works for say……full transformation, taking other things forms completely…..but sometimes something a little more….subtle, adjustable and less modular is needed, if Lunars are so good at shapeshifting, every use of it should be available to them, impersonation shouldn't be crossed off the list.

Calmly Shifting Silver Tides Knack
Requirements: Appearance 3, Essence 2, Preys Skin Disguise Knack
This knack draws upon the mercurial nature of Lunar essence and allows the Lunar to adjust minor details of her appearance such as hair color, hair length, hair style, skin color, eye color, and voice, allowing the Lunar to change herself as she wishes as long she doesn't alter the fundamental foundation of the human form.

other than that, it would have no other mechanical effect. also remember furthermore that neither gender nor tattoos is included on the list, so you still need Twin-Faced Hero and that tattoo-hiding charm. though knowing me, probably still messed up somewhere….

edit: Doppelganger/ Kitsune sounds EXACTLY what I want to play as a Lunar and EXACTLY whats missing from Lunars to me.

[Mr.Bookworm]

yea, I want some shapeshifting which just changes human features without having to murder a human, or heck go through any process other than "I look like a different human now"

Life of the Hummingbird. Take a needle, prick a target (doesn't even have to deal damage), taste their blood, and you can now take their shape for an hour.

But anyway, rather than another Knack, just let Changing Plumage Mastery work on human forms. It probably should be able to, anyway.

Doppelganger/ Kitsune sounds EXACTLY what I want to play as a Lunar and EXACTLY whats missing from Lunars to me.

Doppelganger: Life of the Hummingbird, Evading the Spider's Eye, Lunars have a crapload of things that let them play this role. The only people better at taking another's form are Infernals using Black Mirror Shintai.

...I don't get why you couldn't play a kitsune. A kitsune is a fox that can transform into a human. So, uh, take a fox spirit shape.

Unless you mean you want to play an animal who is Exalted, in which case I refer you to pg. 48 of the Scroll of Errata.

[aetherialDawn]

yea, I want some shapeshifting which just changes human features without having to murder a human, or heck go through any process other than "I look like a different human now"

That would be Loom-Snarling Deception in a nutshell. There is a slight side effect of 'make the Pattern Spiders cry' though.
Also it's an Ebon Dragon charm, but besides the Pattern Spider thing it carries no side effects. Good thing to pick up if you're avoiding, for example, Witness to Darkness.

(I wasn't aware that LSD could not look like normal people. The manual says no such thing and just says that it lets leaves the Infernal 'appearing as he desires' - with an appropriate destiny of his choice!)

[Recaiden]

(I wasn't aware that LSD could not look like normal people. The manual says no such thing and just says that it lets leaves the Infernal 'appearing as he desires' - with an appropriate destiny of his choice!)

The operative phrase is "of a fictitious individual of the Infernal's imagining.

[Drascin]

...I don't get why you couldn't play a kitsune. A kitsune is a fox that can transform into a human. So, uh, take a fox spirit shape.

Unless you mean you want to play an animal who is Exalted, in which case I refer you to pg. 48 of the Scroll of Errata.

By kitsune I mean a trickster spirit type of character - I used it as an example because it's by far the most wellknown type of those. You know, the ones who take the shape of the loved ones of someone to mess with them, or amuses itself with shapeshifting mischief, and such. Subtle shapeshifting tricksters, basically. Though I admit Tanukis would probably have been a more appropiate example - I'm just used to working with people whose knowledge of myth mostly comes from TV shows. Apologies there .

Right now, looking like someone else for a bit requires going to someone and making them either bleed or die. This is not exactly wonderful for subtlety, and makes just watching someone for a bit and making yourself a disguise to look like him a much easier and cheaper proposal.

[Lord Raziere]

yea sometimes I don't want anything requiring blood, I'll go with a modified Changing Plumage Mastery though.

and furthermore, that should only be the start. I mean where is more of my illusions? I know there are some pre-existing ones, but why not expand on illusions a little? make the mythological trickster thing even better to do.

like:

Silver Chameleon Framing Technique:
An illusion that makes silver tattoos and a tell appear on someone else.

[Lix Lorn]

Man, if Exalted was a high school, Autochthon would be the sweet, nerdy science teacher who reveals at a suitably dramatic moment that he is a master of kung-fu and beats in the face of the gym teacher.

Ooooh, awesome image. xD

I would totally play in this game too (my bitching earlier was about it as a general Charm, for a Charm specifically for a game to carry an idea it works great).

Yeah.
Aaaalso, if you wanted to make it a general charm, I think making the 'challenge' optional would be a good idea. (Although the charm would then be pretty much 100% fluff... maybe let him define holy for himself regardless?) Maybe even make the challenge an E10 repurchase so people don't go YEAH LET'S FIGHT THE UCS ohcrap

Look, if we got rid of everything in the setting that only served to create stupid problems and added nothing in return, all we'd have is a game about a bunch of colorful badasses globetrotting across a vaguely Asian fantasy world doing epic things and getting into wildly entertaining kung fu fights.

Is that what you want?

Just, Avatar with the power turned up to 11?

Is that what anyone wants?

Just this-


-VS this-


-all day?

Trust me. No one wants that.

Oh Xefas. You're a genius!

….great…..I set off another discussion again uh…..

Discussions aren't ALWAYS bad, you know. xD

hey everyone. look. instead of being completely radical in changing the Lunars, I have decided to go completely the opposite direction: change them as little as possible. make the lightest touches I can to fix their flaws.

Ooh! This is a good idea! Whenever possible, you want to change as little as possible.

I'm pretty sure this is more or less the exact thing that 90% of Exalted players picked up the book for in the first place, so I'd have to say, yes, people do want that.

And if you're trying to be sarcastic on the internet, you need an established persona that's not known for saying such silly things seriously.

I'm pretty sure Xefas is just known for saying silly things, reason irrelevant.

yea, I want some shapeshifting which just changes human features without having to murder a human, or heck go through any process other than "I look like a different human now"

There's a knack that lets you take shapes with sex. :3
It is my very favourite knack.

Silver Chameleon Framing Technique:
An illusion that makes silver tattoos and a tell appear on someone else.

I think that is a good charm idea! Well done!

[Drascin]

There's a knack that lets you take shapes with sex. :3
It is my very favourite knack.

It's also Essence 4 IIRC, not to mention more likely to screw with someone in the group's comfort boundaries at some point as well. It's probably a greater mercy to get a shape the "traditional" way (that is, killing them) than this way when it comes to acquiring the shapes of those unwilling, for one...

It does make it easier to convince other people to voluntarily give you their shapes, though .

[TheCountAlucard]

If it's the general surrounding fluff, I might recommend getting in touch with another poster on this forum, a... Count? of some sort. Seems the sort of fellow who could tell you all about red cloaks, blood loss, and portals releasing huge numbers of hungry lives.

(whistles innocently)

Though perhaps the poster simply hadn't read all the Fair Folk errata, and just wasn't aware of Chancels?

Now, then. To business!

To business! (toasts)

[Story Time]

Useless Forum Post About Chancel:

Spoiler

Show

Though perhaps the poster simply hadn't read all the Fair Folk errata, and just wasn't aware of Chancels?

...while I am busy thinking about Tavar's question:

A Chancel is a collection of Middle-march level Way-points. These Way-points are hidden by one primary portal and an assortment of others depending on the Chancel's Rating. These other portals usually manifest in relatively nearby areas relative to the Chancel's primary door. All of a Chancel's portals are extremely mobile and may be moved with very little effort.

Chancel's are forged from Ways. They can be one or two dot Raths, three or four dot Labyrinths, or five dot Caers. Way-points inside the Chancel may be converted into Free-holds so long as the Rating of the Chancel is two dots or more...

...can I stop now? I'm trying to think about why I didn't like Sol's character exposition, not how to make a Chancel vanish into a Mortal's Wyld-like dream-scape after a Fey uses Soul-Carving Artifice on that Mortal and then carefully moves that Mortal's body into the Chancel.

[Xefas]

And if you're trying to be sarcastic on the internet, you need an established persona that's not known for saying such silly things seriously.

Maybe you just take what I say a whee bit too seriously. Although, I'm kinda flattered that I have a 'persona'. That's a sign of popularity, right?

[Friv]

The easiest way to gain shapes for infiltration and doppelganger purposes as a Lunar is to take the Knack that lets you borrow shapes for a short duration. Turn into a cat, scratch them, taste their blood, shape for an hour. Problem solved.

(Alternately, mosquito!)

[Lord Raziere]

Yet Another idea for my new light approach to fixing Lunars:

Actual Reasons for Joining the Silver Pact

Y'know whats annoying? the only difference in the character creation of a silver pact Lunar and a casteless lunar is:

you have a caste and can shapeshift without worrying about the wyld. that is all. unless of course you take that Changing Quicksilver knack, which makes me question: why didn't they think of that before?

I think it would be a good idea, to increase Silver Pact Lunars background points to ten and give them a free dot of Hearts Blood on top of that.

Why? because I'm pretty sure that at least some organization, any organization, would increase the amount of resources you have, its ten though because its not nearly enough that Dragon-Blooded or Sidereals get.

the free dot of hearts blood is: well you are in the Silver Pact now, there has got to be some expectations of behavior if you are to receive their advantages. namely, doing the hearts blood thing and y'know getting more forms. the other Lunars will want you to have your full potential used which includes shapeshifting.

furthermore, I'm thinking that if you join one of the organizations of the Silver Pact you should receive benefits as long as you meet their requirements, The Twilight Crossroads Society ain't gonna let you in without at least three dots in Occult for example, but you will probably receive some sorcery-related benefit. the specifics of those organizations however can be hammered out by any/all of us.

as for the artifact:

Moonsilver Scalpel of Surgical Precision
Artifact 1
This moonsilver scalpel has been enchanted to heal people as best it can. Its naturally flowing and changing form ensure that even when the surgeon makes a mistake, the scalpel manages to make the perfect incision anyways. When a surgeon waves it about and accidentally makes a slice that would pierce the skin, the blade becomes completely blunt, not harming the patient at all.
As a result, this Scalpel grants one automatic success to any Medicine roll involving surgery when it is used.
In addition, this Scalpel is enchanted with the first rule of healing: "First Do No Harm." Even if one tries to wield the Scalpel as a weapon they cannot damage anyone. A man who tries to stab someone finds the blade bending like rubber when it touches ones skin. a man who throws it at some one sees it bounce harmlessly off their skull, the person not even noticing or feeling that they were hit. When one tries to wield this scalpel as a weapon all attacks using it automatically deal zero damage no matter what.

[Lix Lorn]

Yet Another idea for my new light approach to fixing Lunars:

Actual Reasons for Joining the Silver Pact

Y'know whats annoying? the only difference in the character creation of a silver pact Lunar and a casteless lunar is:

you have a caste and can shapeshift without worrying about the wyld. that is all.

I uh I'm gonna stop you right there.
As I understand it, Casteless lunars are unplayably bad. We don't need to make the castes stronger.