General Exalted Discussion Thread VII: Playground Eternal Essence

[Qaera]

The Closet of Terror

Mortal children are alike across Creation. Noisy, unruly, pushing at their parent's patience and consuming their sleep. And so, across Creation, the response of their elders is alike - "Go to bed or the monster in the closet will get you!". The Raksha were extremely disappointed when their first diplomatic envoys to the Monster was rebuffed, for the boring reason that it didn't exist.

Since the Fair Folk are creative, they soon solved the problem, and thus the [i]Monster[i] was formed. It travels through Creation, seeking the homes of tempting girls and boys, and lurks. Children often notice there is something off about their rooms, but grown-ups are oblivious, swearing away the life of their offspring for the mildest disobedience.

And so the Closet feeds, partaking only of what is given openly, sometimes spitting out weird copies of the lost children to take the place of the ones it claimed. What it does to its prey is not known - none have escaped until now - but their nightmares must be delicious. Still, there is some hope, for the Monster is rather literal minded. If you can convince your parents to relent, by being very good and quiet, it will slink away, disappointed, and the Closet door will shut.

Or, if you're brave and clever... you can't beat the Monster, but it will take anyone given to it. Noisy, nosy siblings are good, but parents are best!

"On the count of three, you'd better behave, or else..."

1-dot Chancel. Works perfectly.

Would parents of the children notice a change in who the changelings are attracted to?

~ ♅

[Mr.Bookworm]

Absolutely nothing. They are artifacts, like any other. It's just that only the pact knows how to make them. (How long will this remain true? Until a few days after a Twilight decides he wants them)

Which means it's likely a bad idea to base them too much off lunar themes. If it is a lunar ability, it is a charm of knack. Tattoos are just generic abilities that lunar happen to have easier access to.

No, tattoo artifacts are specifically based off of Lunar tattoos, which no one but Lunars can get.

1. No, it seems fine to me, its nowhere near the range of actual ranged weapons.

Alright, comparison time. Uncoiling Serpent Prana, Essence 3, tier 5 (tier means the number of prerequisite Charms it requires, with tier 1 requiring none), from Snake style, a CMA. Enhances an unarmed martial attack, allowing you to hit a target (Essence x 2) yards away.

Now compare to your Artifact.

Range enhancers are actually a really big deal in Exalted, because flurry breakers all rely on moving away from a target. If you can negate those, your opponent is screwed.

2. Kay…..I don't care. I just want a Lunar who sets himself on fire with a tattoo.

Alright. Then you need to balance that. It's turning your bashing into lethal. It's dealing 4 lethal dice to everyone that touches you. It's adding 4 dice to all of your unarmed attacks.

The last one is especially important because it's for Lunars specifically, and Lunars already have massive unarmed damage pools. They don't really need a big boost on top of that.

I would cut it to +3 or +2.

3. My artifact. 5 for scene, 10 for tick.

If you release your Artifact for general consumption, I will assume you want feedback on it.

I am telling you, compare to everything else in the game that boosts speed. Lightning Speed (core Solar Charm) is probably about the right balance point for an Artifact 2.

If you want something better, it needs to have a higher cost.

4. *Rolls eyes* yes, another action, paying same cost, anyone you can see within 30 yards.

...why are you rolling your eyes? Basic information on how to use the Artifact is a given in design.

5. How is adapting to the Underworld broken? it seems to be a minor thing to me, just changing what essence your eating and not eating, it seems pretty much the same to me.

Two reasons.

1) Basic comparison. Changing states of being is held up as a very big deal within the setting. Therefore, you design around that principle.

2) Themes. A game away from "home" (i.e. Creation) generally has elements of alienation, even in somewhere as comparatively friendly as Yu-Shan, let alone the Underworld. Being able to buy an Artifact 3 and go "nope" is just a complete undercutting of that set of themes.

Lunars are meant to adapt to places outside Creation, this helps them do that.

Then you design a Charm that does that.

Artifacts are extraneous (I am making slight generalizations here). They are not the source of a Celestial's power, they merely augment it. A Solar who loses their daiklave busts out GSS and never stops swinging.

You should never make an Artifact central to the power of an Exalted (someone is saying "but Lunars!" right here, yes, Lunars are goddamn stupid that way). That's what Charms are for.

[Lord Raziere]

That's what I thought.

and then the Twilight gets mauled by a bunch of Lunars in war form and the secret dies with him.

same goes for the Dragon-Blooded and Sidereals.

also, I'm pretty sure the fact that said Tattoos are kinda needed to how Lunar Exaltations works nowadays, I certainly would not allow anyone else, not even a Solar, to learn about them. its a Lunar only thing and should stay that way.

I mean, come on, do we REALLY need Solars to screw EVERY SINGLE THING up with their arrogance and sun-elfishness? it would cheapen the fluff, debase a good flavorful thing in favor of "I'M A SOLAR ME DO ANYTHING! WATCH ME VIOLATE EVERY RULE IN THE SETTING!"

[Xefas]

sun-elfishness

Actually kind of appropriate.

[TheCountAlucard]

and then the Twilight gets mauled by a bunch of Lunars in war form and the secret dies with him.

I really did not post on this thread to engage in an Internet Contest of measuring one splat's... je ne sai quoi... against another's. As such, let's not do this, please.

also, I'm pretty sure the fact that said Tattoos are kinda needed to how Lunar Exaltations works nowadays, I certainly would not allow anyone else, not even a Solar, to learn about them.

So, a Solar PC meets a Lunar PC in your game, and asks the Lunar PC about those tattoo-things on him, and you have to explicitly butt in and tell him, "Sorry, your character can't know about it, at all?" That's the case?

its a Lunar only thing and should stay that way.

Says you.

I mean, come on, do we REALLY need Solars to screw EVERY SINGLE THING up with their arrogance and sun-elfishness?

Yeah, pretty much.

it would cheapen the fluff, debase a good flavorful thing in favor of "I'M A SOLAR ME DO ANYTHING! WATCH ME VIOLATE EVERY RULE IN THE SETTING!"

Umm, pretty much every splat's been doing that since the setting was first published.

On an unrelated note, I was looking at the stuff for warstriders... so, lemme get this straight: a talent of jade weighs 68 pounds. Wonders of the Lost Age explicitly states that a noble warstrider requires two talents of magical material in its construction, and that all of its components are forged of the magical materials, rather than being made of steel and plated with said materials.

This raises some interesting questions - does this mean, for instance, that the warstrider weighs only 136 pounds? Actually, if that's the case, it should weigh even less, as it points out that a significant amount of the material in question ends up wasted in the process of the warstrider's creation.

And this isn't just with jade, either - it can be any "magical material," even wood - get two talents of it, and you can put together a giant robot that accidentally destroys stone structures by brushing up against them.

[DeadManSleeping]

Who said they'd have to be silver?

Moonsilver is the only magical material besides Vitriol which takes on a fluid property at humanly-survivable temperatures. I imagine some more powerful Exalted might be okay with putting molten metal into their bodies, and yet further okay with having re-solidified metal where most people want to have nice, bendy skin and muscles. But I'm guessing the market is rare enough that such instances are taken on a case-by-case basis, rather than founding a big methodology for it.

[TheCountAlucard]

Moonsilver is the only magical material besides Vitriol which takes on a fluid property at humanly-survivable temperatures. I imagine some more powerful Exalted might be okay with putting molten metal into their bodies, and yet further okay with having re-solidified metal where most people want to have nice, bendy skin and muscles. But I'm guessing the market is rare enough that such instances are taken on a case-by-case basis, rather than founding a big methodology for it.

Umm, pretty much all tattoo ink is composed of heavy metals already, and they're certainly not in a molten state. Pretty sure that the tattoo in question would only need to be fluid if the person in question was capable of shapeshifting.

[Xefas]

Umm, pretty much all tattoo ink is composed of heavy metals already, and they're certainly not in a molten state.

I learned this on an episode of House where they tortured a dude with prison tattoos with some magnets.

[Mr.Bookworm]

This raises some interesting questions - does this mean, for instance, that the warstrider weighs only 136 pounds?

No, it means whoever wrote that was being stupid and didn't consider the math.

Also, this entire tattoo debate is a moot point. Nobody but Lunars get any benefit from them.

[TheCountAlucard]

I learned this on an episode of House where they tortured a dude with prison tattoos with some magnets.

And knowing is half the battle!

And yeah, I figured as much regarding the weight of the warstrider (was mostly making mention of it because of how bizarre it seemed), but in that case, how much should a warstrider weigh? If a noble or royal warstrider is actually heavier, and made solely of the magical materials, then how can one be made without bankrupting the entire Realm jade depository, et cetera?

[Lord Raziere]

So, a Solar PC meets a Lunar PC in your game, and asks the Lunar PC about those tattoo-things on him, and you have to explicitly butt in and tell him, "Sorry, your character can't know about it, at all?" That's the case?



Yeah, pretty much.

Umm, pretty much every splat's been doing that since the setting was first published.

1. Thats a good thing. Who knows what the Solar would've done with those things, and without permission!

2. no, but only Lunars should be able to use them.

3. I hate this attitude. screw Solars. I don't want Solars always arrogantly strutting around like they own the place and going "WE ARE BETTER THAN YOU!". Thankfully all the other factions in the setting want them dead, so I would gladly kill all Solars. Except Misho, but only because he isn't the almighty "I CAN DO ANYTHING!!!!" Solar.

4. No they haven't:
-No learning charms outside your Exaltation aside from martial arts? broken by Solars having Eclipsoids, PPE and that Abyssal one.
-No Solars doing alien things like blast ice, fire and such? broken by PPE and Eclipsoids, Shinmaic Communion and Calibration
-No Solars being the best at martial arts cause Sidereals are? broken by the fact that they can learn Sidereal Martial Arts anyways if they can get a Sidereal to teach them.
-Solars being only the first among equals? Where do I start? broken by the fact that the entire fanbase acknowledges Solaroids as their own tier? getting a bunch of things normally exclusive to other Exalts?

[TheCountAlucard]

1. Thats a good thing. Who knows what the Solar would've done with those things, and without permission!

Please go back and read my edit. For that matter, would you mind parsing out the replies? It's a lot easier to follow that way.

2. no, but only Lunars should be able to use them.

Yet that's not what you said.

3. I hate this attitude.

Oh, well...

-No learning charms outside your Exaltation aside from martial arts? broken by Solars having Eclipsoids, PPE and that Abyssal one.

And Lunars' ability to learn Fair Folk Charms, that's just a fluke?

-No Solars doing alien things like blast ice, fire and such? broken by PPE and Eclipsoids, Shinmaic Communion and Calibration

Broken by anybody with a hearthstone. Again, every splat can do it.

-No Solars being the best at martial arts cause Sidereals are? broken by the fact that they can learn Sidereal Martial Arts anyways if they can get a Sidereal to teach them.

Except that if a Solar learns them, he is literally learning the most inefficient version possible.

[Lord Raziere]

Please go back and read my edit.

Yet that's not what you said.

Oh, well...

And Lunars' ability to learn Fair Folk Charms, that's just a fluke?

Broken by anybody with a hearthstone. Again, every splat can do it.

Except that if a Solar learns them, he is literally learning the most inefficient version possible.

1.ok, I won't argue with you on that

2. I meant to learn about how to use them

4. Wyld Spark which is an actual explanation. Solar Eclipses are just handwaved as being able to learn any charm they want without restriction, with no actual fluff reason or any real importance to the setting at large, you could cut the Eclipsoids out without the setting changing one bit.

5. no, everyone can uses hearthstones therefore its a rule of the setting. the Solars doing such things without the hearthstones is breaking a rule of the setting.

6. he shouldn't be able to learn them at all to my way of thinking.

[Dragnar]

No, tattoo artifacts are specifically based off of Lunar tattoos, which no one but Lunars can get.

Er... no. Tattoos are an artifact. Nothing more, nothing less. There is literally NOTHING preventing a solar, or even a Dragonblood, from reverse-engineering them. They are not even core to the lunar fluff: They are a quick fix the lunar elders started tacking onto them to fix the problems being in the wyld so long caused.

I hate the various ways that solars can steal things from other splats. (eclipses and PPE? Die in a fire.) But the tattoos are just a neat invention of the lunars, nothing more. There is NOTHING wrong with anyone else using them. You want Lunars to be interesting? Then make THEM interesting. Not their artifacts. Them. Otherwise you are making casteless lunars even more worthless than they already are.

[TheCountAlucard]

1.ok, I won't argue with you on that

Thank you.

2. I meant to learn about how to use them

Guess it's gonna be awkward, then, when the Solar learns a Charm that explicitly allows him to understand both the workings and the methodologies required to create or destroy any artifact he comes across.

4. Wyld Spark which is an actual explanation.

Just because it's explained doesn't mean a damn thing - if they'd written up a big in-setting justification for Eclipses being able to learn other people's Charms, they'd still be stepping on toes.

5. no, everyone can uses hearthstones therefore its a rule of the setting. the Solars doing such things without the hearthstones is breaking a rule of the setting.

You were the one who suggested slinging around fire and ice powers, and never mentioned anything about a source.

6. he shouldn't be able to learn them at all to my way of thinking.

So, what about Terrestrials learning Celestial styles, hmm? And mortals learning Terrestrial styles? What's so inherently different?

[Lord Raziere]

I'm bad at designing charms, its artifacts I'm good at. mostly because they have actual guidelines.

@ Alucard: Martial Arts: Fine.

Listen, everyone but Sidereals only be able to learn up to Celestial Styles? fine with me. either that or you allow ALL of the Celestials to learn Sidereal Martial Arts, and then it isn't really Sidereal Martial Arts anymore. The way it is now, it might as well not matter-three celestial splats other than Sidereals can learn Sidereal Martial Arts, might as well let in the other two. either that or you get rid of the extraneous three and only allow Sidereal Martial Arts to be wielded by Sidereals, as they were meant to be.

5. it should be obvious. if everyone can use the source, it isn't breaking the rules of the setting. if only one splat is supposed to use the source, it isn't breaking the rules of the setting.

4. yes, thats why Eclipsoids got to go. if it means Lunars lose access to fae stuff, ok. Lunars need to stand on their own two feet anyways.

2. ugh, again with the Solar learning a charm for everything. Why not just give the Solars a charm that says "I win"? Thats basically what they do already, only less efficiently.

[aetherialDawn]

And knowing is half the battle!

And yeah, I figured as much regarding the weight of the warstrider (was mostly making mention of it because of how bizarre it seemed), but in that case, how much should a warstrider weigh? If a noble or royal warstrider is actually heavier, and made solely of the magical materials, then how can one be made without bankrupting the entire Realm jade depository, et cetera?

Two Talents of Jade go into construction.
Every part is made of Jade.

Solution? Jade artifacts are often made of a Jade-Steel alloy referred to as Jade.
So yes, there are about 136 pounds of Pure Jade in a Warstrider.

Then there's several tons of steel alloyed in.



As for Tattoo Artifacts: For some reason, Lunars apparently are the only ones who can get them...
My recommendation is that to get tattoos, you NEED to use Moonsilver - nothing else is going to retain the proper consistency for Artifact creation using on of the 5MM while still bending properly.
You want a tattoo artifact as a nonlunar? Well you'll need to attune it as Moonsilver, with the extra cost that entails.
There. Everyone can get them, Lunars get them more easily, not because tattoos are lunar, but because Moonsilver and its flexible strangeness is.

You could do normal artifact tattoos not using one of the 5MM, but that opens you up to your ST requiring you to obtain some other sort of magical ink. Like the blood of demons - Oh wait. You say there are tattoo artifacts in Infernals? Made from demonic Chalcanth. Well.
(Also, those add to traits and are thus broken. I'm unhappy because they're also actually kind of cool.)




And last but far from least, Meschlum. I rather like the Monster in the Closet but point out that the Chancel is only helping to enable it.
Still, it's a cool story and an interesting thing to have, and entirely thematic for the Raksha. Besides, the Chancel is a major part of it by opening its extra entrances into random closets.
I especially like that it actually obeys the rules the parents set out for it, hee hee.

[TheCountAlucard]

Two Talents of Jade go into construction.
Every part is made of Jade.

Solution? Jade artifacts are often made of a Jade-Steel alloy referred to as Jade.
So yes, there are about 136 pounds of Pure Jade in a Warstrider.

Then there's several tons of steel alloyed in.

Except you missed the part where I said it is said to happen with any magical material, not just jade - see, the only reason I brought up Jade specifically is because it's the only one with a given weight.

[aetherialDawn]

Except you missed the part where I said it is said to happen with any magical material, not just jade - see, the only reason I brought up Jade specifically is because it's the only one with a given weight.

I am going to assume that other Magical Materials can also be alloyed, because that makes sense.
The Warstrider incorporates mechanical components which probably do not need full 5MM construction, as well as parts that do.

The fact that it's not stated, and that the person who wrote it wasn't thinking of this, doesn't mean that it doesn't have a good explanation we can make.
Explanation: Alloying. Only the DBs need to alloy normal artifacts, because most other artifacts were made in the First Age, a time of enormous plenty

[Mr.Bookworm]

Er... no. Tattoos are an artifact. Nothing more, nothing less. There is literally NOTHING preventing a solar, or even a Dragonblood, from reverse-engineering them. They are not even core to the lunar fluff: They are a quick fix the lunar elders started tacking onto them to fix the problems being in the wyld so long caused.

I hate the various ways that solars can steal things from other splats. (eclipses and PPE? Die in a fire.) But the tattoos are just a neat invention of the lunars, nothing more. There is NOTHING wrong with anyone else using them. You want Lunars to be interesting? Then make THEM interesting. Not their artifacts. Them. Otherwise you are making casteless lunars even more worthless than they already are.

Page 131, Lunar book. "Although a character with sufficient expertise can gift anyone with the moonsilver tattoos, no one but a Steward has the Wyld inner core that binds the moonsilver to the body and provides the insuperable protection against external transformations." There's then a little side note saying that the benefits a character besides a Lunar gets are completely up to the ST.

This is a good thing, because Lunar tattoos are kind of annoying, and I would far prefer to have them need to get a Shaping defense like everyone else instead of just having a built-in partial one. And they're supposedly an Artifact 2, soooooo.

[aetherialDawn]

Page 131, Lunar book. "Although a character with sufficient expertise can gift anyone with the moonsilver tattoos, no one but a Steward has the Wyld inner core that binds the moonsilver to the body and provides the insuperable protection against external transformations." There's then a little side note saying that the benefits a character besides a Lunar gets are completely up to the ST.

This is a good thing, because Lunar tattoos are kind of annoying, and I would far prefer to have them need to get a Shaping defense like everyone else instead of just having a built-in partial one.

Oh! I didn't recall that there was a good explanation, I just recalled them being somehow Lunar-only.
I rather like that. I would assume that normal artifacts could be made as tattoos... Just not Perma-Partial-Shaping-Immunity.

[TheCountAlucard]

as they were meant to be

I'm not following - is it that you can magically divine answers from the heads of every Exalted designer to truly ascertain their intentions at every step of the development process? Or is your prescient vision only from "first draft" material?

it should be obvious.

You might think that, but it's not so clear, really.

if everyone can use the source, it isn't breaking the rules of the setting. if only one splat is supposed to use the source, it isn't breaking the rules of the setting.

Then there's no problem with Solaroids tossing around fireballs and ice blasts, because the only difference here is that one Solaroid can fire laser beams with his eyes because of a rock he found, and the other Solaroid is doing it by dint of having learned Elemental Bolt Attack from a Fire Aspect Dragonblood. Fluff-wise, it's still doing the same thing, though the mechanics may differ.

ugh, again with the Solar learning a charm for everything.

Ugh, again with bashing the high-powered generalists for having a high-powered Charm that's almost always going to be useful.

[Story Time]

The Closet of Terror
[...]
1-dot Chancel. Works perfectly.

I'm...I'm allergic to Horror. ...just sayin'.


Neat avatar, Words.

[Lord Raziere]

1. They are Sidereal Martial Arts. it says it right in the title. Sidereal only.

2. actually its really clear: Solars keep stepping on everyones toes and that should be fixed.

3. No. the Solaroid using a hearthstone is no problem because a sidereal, lunar or alchemical can also use the hearthstone to shoot fireballs.
the Solaroid learning Elemental Bolt attack from a Dragon-Blooded is learning a specific charm meant only for the dragon-blooded and shouldn't learn it, because the Solar is not meant to learn the charm, meanwhile none of the other splats can learn the charm, not ok. either only the dragon-blooded can learn elemental bolt attack, or everyone should be able to learn elemental bolt attack.

4. yes, because by doing so, they make everyone else suck and overshadow the entire setting with their nigh-unbeatable-ness, while still being at the same time completely uninteresting because of their generalness. They suck up everything around them until thats all people focus on. something thats both generalist and high-powered? bad idea. too open. I want a similar level of power, but without the generalism because I honestly don't know what to do with generalist godhood. all options look the same. none of them require creativity to actually think about the problems, none of them allow me any vulnerability that interests me and makes actually want to take risks and prevail despite the odds. They just plain solve my problems for me, how can I have fun with that?

[TheCountAlucard]

They are Sidereal Martial Arts. it says it right in the title. Sidereal only.

Heh.

Now, here's my top five list for alternate reasons why they're called that.

1. Only Sidereals can create Sidereal Martial Arts.
2. Only Sidereals can teach Sidereal Martial Arts.
3. Only Sidereals can add new Charms to an existing Sidereal Martial Art.
4. Only Sidereals can achieve the various sutras that make Sidereal Martial Arts worth buying.
5. Only Sidereals have a sucky enough Charmset to necessitate the presence of Sidereal Martial Arts.

Seems reason enough to me to name it after them without forever closing access to it off from others.

2. actually its really clear: Solars keep stepping on everyones toes and that should be fixed.

Native Charms already do a great job of fixing that.

The Solaroid using a hearthstone is no problem because a sidereal, lunar or alchemical can also use the hearthstone to shoot fireballs.
the Solaroid learning Elemental Bolt attack from a Dragon-Blooded is learning a specific charm meant only for the dragon-blooded and shouldn't learn it, because the Solar is not meant to learn the charm, meanwhile none of the other splats can learn the charm, not ok. either only the dragon-blooded can learn elemental bolt attack, or everyone should be able to learn elemental bolt attack.

THEY ARE DOING THE SAME THING. THERE IS NO APPRECIABLE DIFFERENCE.

If slinging around fireballs is a Dragonblooded theme, then it doesn't matter how they're doing it, if someone else is slinging around fireballs, they are sharing the spotlight with the Dragonblooded.

They just plain solve my problems for me, how can I have fun with that?

That's your problem, not mine - I've had quite a lot of fun with Solars in the past, and if you're unable to enjoy them, then I feel sorry for you.

[Dragnar]

Page 131, Lunar book. "Although a character with sufficient expertise can gift anyone with the moonsilver tattoos, no one but a Steward has the Wyld inner core that binds the moonsilver to the body and provides the insuperable protection against external transformations." There's then a little side note saying that the benefits a character besides a Lunar gets are completely up to the ST.

This is a good thing, because Lunar tattoos are kind of annoying, and I would far prefer to have them need to get a Shaping defense like everyone else instead of just having a built-in partial one. And they're supposedly an Artifact 2, soooooo.

Huh. I'll admit I had missed that quote(though it would, by a strict reading, not prevent say, a solar from getting tattoo artifacts. They would just lack shaping defense from it.). On the other hand, that is... rather stupid. It's not how artifacts work in exalted. They are almost all(with a few exceptions...) utterly independent of the exalt using them. Beyond the increased cost to use the wrong Magical Material, they do the exact some thing for anyone.

Beyond my personal complains about that shattering the usual dynamic of artifacts, the tattoos themselves are frankly a terrible idea. Exalted is a game about empowerment, mortals becoming powerful heroes... But not the lunars. Instead, they get to rely on external artifacts to retain their sanity, due to their exaltations being screwed up. Even though exaltations are utterly indestructible and immuatable. The only exceptions are infernals and abyssals: Infernal exaltations would be fixed within moments of Lytek getting them back, and abyssals flipped a switch that was already there. Lytek should be able to scrub the lunars clean as well.

[Mr.Bookworm]

1. They are Sidereal Martial Arts. it says it right in the title. Sidereal only.

Naming the Martial Arts system after the types/tiers of Exalted is such a really dumb decision for so many reasons. This is one of them.

I have no problem with Solars going into SMAs. It reinforces the adviser/mentor aspect the Sidereals are supposed to have (since only a Sidereal can teach an SMA to a Solar).

SMAs are cool, but a Solar going into one is gimping himself.

2. actually its really clear: Solars keep stepping on everyones toes and that should be fixed.

No, this is not clear. I will be the first to admit that the Eclipse anima power is dumb and that Primordial Principle Emulation needs to be scaled back (although I do like the idea).

General Solar themes, though? Those don't step on anyone's toes.

meanwhile none of the other splats can learn the charm

Infernals. Abyssals.

4. yes, because by doing so, they make everyone else suck

Noooooope.

and overshadow the entire setting with their nigh-unbeatable-ness

Yes, because Solars are really goddamn powerful. They do overshadow the setting, because they fundamentally have the potential to be the best thing in it.

"Night-unbeatableness", though? You've obviously never had a Solar fall to the Wyld Hunt after getting the crap beaten out of them by an Immaculate monk. Or had a new Solar get ganked by a mortal.

It took them incalculable years (literally) to defeat the Primordials. A single Primordial, optimized for warfare, fought the Deliberative for a century. One of the core setting elements is that a bunch of Sidereals and Dragon-Blooded killed them and took them almost out of the picture. Solars are powerful. That does not make them invincible.

,

while still being at the same time completely uninteresting because of their generalness.

I would say that Solars are the most character-driven splat in the game. Their Charm set is (relatively) "boring", because it's mostly human abilities amped up to 11 (though I will say their Charm set is showing it's age).

Solars are mostly interesting because of what they do with all of the cosmic power they have been given, not because their Charm set has a lot of inherently flashy stuff like the Infernals.

They suck up everything around them until thats all people focus on.

You obviously haven't been paying attention since the release of Lunars. Solars have never been the focus out-of-game. Particularly nowadays, when green is the new gold.

want a similar level of power, but without the generalism because I honestly don't know what to do with generalist godhood. all options look the same.

I think this is a problem with you, not with Solars.

The Solar book encourages specialization, because with enough work, a Solar is the greatest ever at what they put their mind to. Spreading out diminishes that, and I have never seen a Solar that did not have a core focus area.

none of them require creativity to actually think about the problems, none of them allow me any vulnerability that interests me and makes actually want to take risks and prevail despite the odds. They just plain solve my problems for me, how can I have fun with that?

Uh. You haven't actually played a Solar, have you?

Being a Solar can be hard. Infrastructure is literally the best thing you can have in Exalted. Solars have none that they do not make for themselves. Almost every other person in the setting either wants to kill them or use them for their own ends. Being a Solar means you are reliant entirely on yourself and your circle.

And do to aforesaid specialization, no, you can't just whip out a Charm for every situation, because that requires more XP then you will ever have. Being a Solar is often about maneuvering into situations where you can bring your full might to bear (and then you can start curbstomping people).

Beyond my personal complains about that shattering the usual dynamic of artifacts, the tattoos themselves are frankly a terrible idea. Exalted is a game about empowerment, mortals becoming powerful heroes... But not the lunars. Instead, they get to rely on external artifacts to retain their sanity, due to their exaltations being screwed up. Even though exaltations are utterly indestructible and immuatable. The only exceptions are infernals and abyssals: Infernal exaltations would be fixed within moments of Lytek getting them back, and abyssals flipped a switch that was already there. Lytek should be able to scrub the lunars clean as well.

I completely agree with you, actually.

An Exaltation that can be warped almost to the point of uselessness is stupid and setting-breaking. I would prefer just to retcon that the three castes have always been like that, and just completely get rid of Tattoos.

If Lunars want a Shaping defense, they can go pick up their awesomely named Shaping defense Charm (Laughing Into the Teeth of Madness).

[Kyeudo]

In the revision of the Exalted rules I'm working on, the Lunars always had only three Castes and Chimera have been a potential hazard from the begining of time. In fact, other Exalts have to deal with the same problem, but only Lunars get superpowers from that type of insanity. Only the long exile to the Wyld has made Chimera a real problem, with the tatoos as a stop-gap measure to a problem that will be solved as soon as the Sidereals get off their backs.

[Xefas]

In the revision of the Exalted rules I'm working on...

In the revision of the Exalted rules I'm working on, it's just fifty dudes sitting in a room engaging in a giant green circle-jerk. There are no dice mechanics; conflict resolution is dealt with via headbutts.

Lunars have had their problems dealt with by pure irrelevancy, is what I'm saying.

[aetherialDawn]

Lunar Chimera Akuma with lots of Fair Folk Graces.

What we have here is a demonic apocalypse beast that can regenerate from a single cell and has access to some of Meschlum and a single Yozi charmset.
If I recall correctly, the moon in Hell is one of Kimbery's souls, so most likely we have the horrible offspring of...
-An Acid Sea
-Majinn Buu from DBZ
-The Fair Folk
-Godzilla
-A Tentacle Monster
-And one Yozi.

Now, they're not Devil-Tiger status (nothing is Devil-Tiger status. Even Meschlum is not Devil-Tiger status because Devil-Tigers can encompass Meschlum.) but they come in at a healthy second, no? All at the cost of their free will!

More on Devil-Tiger status: It's a fill in the blank for your own charmset.
It basically DEVOURS the entire spectrum of Types Of Goodness from 'This is incredibly flavorful and awesome' to 'This does exactly the mechanical effect I want'