General Exalted Discussion Thread VII: Playground Eternal Essence

[Turalisj]

We need to fix that- A charm for each Exalt type that include Fusillade in it's name.

[Volthawk]

We need to fix that- A charm for each Exalt type that include Fusillade in it's name.

For Alchemicals, perhaps one that chains off the Transcendant Multimodal Artefact Matrix, allowing you to bring up multiple ranged artefacts at once, with submodules making it easier to attack with all these cannons at once?

[Xefas]

It makes me think of an Abyssal Thrown Charm, an Alchemical Dexterity Charm, or maybe a Swilly Extra Action Charm.

edit:

For Alchemicals, perhaps one that chains off the Transcendant Multimodal Artefact Matrix, allowing you to bring up multiple ranged artefacts at once, with submodules making it easier to attack with all these cannons at once?

I like it.

[Turalisj]

I'm pretty sure you could use Fusillade for a Solar thrown combo.

For your idea Volt, I think it best fits to have that as something with the acronym MMM....

Maybe M3 Assault Paradigm.

[Tavar]

So, help regarding an NPC for a game I'm running. This game is set in the late shogunate period, so if you're in one of those in real life, you probably don't want to go any further.

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This NPC is a Mortal Akuma of the Ebon Dragon. Hold the pitchforks for a second: I'm using my houseruled version. Specifically, the following: Akuma are created as normal, except they can only freely learn Spirit Charms, specifically those compatible with the themes of the Being who preformed the Investiture. The process does grant some small amount of power, though. The Akuma gains the First Excellency of their Patron Yozi, as well as (essence before Investiture) other charms. Using a Yozi's charms is difficult for one so low, though, and they must pay an additional 1 mote per charm.

So, Akuma is going to have 3 yozi charms besides the first excellency, and I was wondering both which charms would be a good choice, both from the Yozi side of things and from the Spirit side. This character is supposed to be more of a social challenge, though he or she will have some sorcery and martial arts as well.

[Xefas]

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So, Akuma is going to have 3 yozi charms besides the first excellency, and I was wondering both which charms would be a good choice, both from the Yozi side of things and from the Spirit side. This character is supposed to be more of a social challenge, though he or she will have some sorcery and martial arts as well.

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I like Cracked Cell Circumvention, Brooding Resentment Defense, and Mocking Murmurs Retort. The latter is an applicability-trumping perfect mental parry with a cost of 6m - 1m per time you previously used it in the scene. I don't know what kind of Essence Pool this kid will be toting, but if he's getting socially wailed on by multiple Exalts, if he can get down to 1m per parry, it might help his longevity.

Alternatively, Witness to Darkness, Nemesis Self Imagined Anew, and Ego Shell Ascendancy could be nice. The second will allow you to instantly figure out someone's Motivation and use it against them, as well as making it easier to figure out their intimacies for their possible social bonuses as well. The last one will make any social attack that tries to make the Akuma act like a reasonable human being an Unacceptable Order.

Loom Snarling Deception, Eldritch Secrets Mastery, and Witness to Darkness is also a possibility if you're looking for shapeshifting/mistaken-identity shenanigans.

For Spirit Charms, Paper Tiger Arrangement seems like it could be thematic and awesome. Shapechange, possibly? Look at Geas, Harrow the Mind, and Mind-Knife Sacrament. You can never go wrong with the various general charms (Essence Plethora, Hurry Home, Principle of Motion, etc, etc).

[masterjoda99]

I was playing a little bit of Dissidia today, and I realized that I don't know of any Exalted Charms that use the word "Fusillade". That seems like a pretty huge oversight. Nouns like that don't come along every day.

So what exalt type would Cloud of Darkness be?

I already know Golbez is a Defiler favoring Malfeas...

[Tavar]

Well, what is the Cloud of Darkness/what does it do?

[Dragnar]

Well, what is the Cloud of Darkness/what does it do?

...well, I have not played Dissida, but in the main series, Cloud of Darkness is Exactly What It Says On The Tin. It's the physical embodiment of evil. Takes the form of a cloud.

So. Not an exalt at all. It's just the Ebon Dragon.

[Tavar]

Eh, not so sure about that. Probably some custom behemoth from the underworld, or something.

[Xefas]

In Dissidia, Cloud of Darkness is this:


Her schticks are basically flight, laser beams, and whacking you with her pseudopods (of suffering and death).

[Tavar]

Sounds like a Slayer caste, then. Or maybe an Akuma of Malfeas.

[Fortuna]

Not an Akuma: needs more SWLiHN. I'm going to say Slayer, or perhaps Defiler depending on personality (I know nothing of the source).

[masterjoda99]

She's also rather fond of rambling about the Void.

[Xefas]

She's also rather fond of rambling about the Void.

Meh. Every Final Fantasy character rambles about some nonsense that doesn't mean anything.

Except Ramza. Ramza's the man. But who did we get instead? Laguna. Yeah, great.

Laguna.

Fortunately, the Emperor got a new costume that makes up for everything. It is the business. It is all of my business.

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[TheCountAlucard]

Not an Akuma: needs more SWLiHN.

I'll have you know, your voice sounded like Ahnold's in my head.

[Kyeudo]

Off topic question: Is there a good reason you can't just use your starting background dots to purchase a background up to 5? Like grabbing, say, Resources 5 or Ally 5 with no need to purchase them with bonus points?

[Xefas]

Off topic question: Is there a good reason you can't just use your starting background dots to purchase a background up to 5? Like grabbing, say, Resources 5 or Ally 5 with no need to purchase them with bonus points?

The last sentence on page 74 of the core book, leading into page 75. You can't buy a background above 3 dots without bonus points.

If you're asking "why" from a balance perspective, then that's kind of a redundant question.

[Kyeudo]

If you're asking "why" from a balance perspective, then that's kind of a redundant question.

I don't see why it's redundant. The only backgrounds I've ever seen anyone take up to 5 have been things like Breeding and Familiar and those have hardly been game-breaking. I'm thinking about whether I should remove the restriction for my own games and I can't come up with any arguements against the idea.

[Tavar]

Well, the issue probably lies with having backgrounds that are appropriate. Not including Artifact armors from the core book(cause, seriously, I doubt any of them are really worth 3 dots...), artifacts 4 or 5 have a much greater impact on the setting. Similar arguments can be made for most other backgrounds. Familiar is a tricky one because, at the moment, Familiar 5 is about the same value as Familiar 2 or so. Breeding's also tricky, but for different reasons. It's still a very powerful background, though.

[Xefas]

I don't see why it's redundant.

I consider it a redundant question because you're worrying about balance in a system that doesn't actually function properly in any capacity. I wouldn't worry about numbers of background dots, because the way backgrounds themselves are handled is terrible. But even then, why worry about backgrounds at all? Abilities, attributes, motes, willpower, the very basic dice mechanics of the system are fundamentally awful, not even getting into the fact that combat is so bad it verges on the comical, and there might as well not be a social or mass combat system because their quality shoots right past laughable into sad.

You're playing Superman 64 and complaining about the cape physics. It's redundant.

[aetherialDawn]

So. An interesting question: What does SWLiHN really think of the Fair Folk? And is it an honest answer on her part?

Her charms are very anti-Wyld. But it occurs to me that she's also the primordial most prone to reaching outside and integrating other things into herself, besides the obvious Szoreny - for her, it's via cataloging and understanding it. As a Yozi, now, she doesn't seem to do that so much, which is unfortunate.

Would she feel differently if she were able to reduce Graces to more abstract and specific phenomena? Because I notice that a few of her charms, looked at with my new knowledge of Graceful Wicked Masques, actually look a bit like Oneiromancy, and then a lot more look almost exactly like Adjurations. Obey this taboo, and you get power.

And, of course, 'be happy in your place, be in your happy place' - is that SWLiHN talking, or a Worker Raksha? (And they both can get rather angry when Creation-born have the temerity to try and have mobility in their castes beyond that strictly proscribed.)

[Gensh]

I'd say she hates the raksha just as much as it says she does. After all, while they may exist as codified beings, that is only a temporary state. They may include oaths into the core of their selves, but such a core will eventually fade away unless they take on a permanent shaped form for some reason.

Note the opening text to Mind-Spider Curse:

"Free will is a work of the imagination, no more valuable to the Whispering flame than the princes of make-believe who dance in gossamer halls, and equally worthy of eradication."

It's not SWLiHN being similar to the raksha - it's the raksha imitating the principles she established in Creation. Apparently, she takes it about as well as she would take the Ebon Dragon using Mocking Murmurs Retort every time she made a suggestion to Malfeas. Which, come to think of it, is probably what happened when she insisted the gods not be given free will.

[golentan]

Hey guys, thought I'd get your opinions on this charm. I'll also be posting it in the white wolf forums.

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Dragon Bends His Tail

Cost: 1+ m; Mins: Martial Arts 4, Essence 3; Type: Simple
Keywords: Combo-OK, Elemental, Obvious
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Dragon-Claw Elemental Strike

This charm is actually a cluster of 5 charms, one for each of the elements. A dragon blood may learn multiple versions of this charm, but must always learn the one associated with his element first.

The dragon blooded's understanding of elemental essence as expressed by martial arts deepens with this charm. He understands that all of his element is merely an extension of his body, and all under his control. As long as there is a suitable body of the element used for this charm within (Essence x 50) yards, the terrestrial may make martial arts attacks within this range as the element animates and moves at the behest of the katas he performs. These attacks have an accuracy of (essence) and a base damage of (motes spent) bludgeoning damage, to a maximum of (essence) motes. They benefit from the element appropriate effect of Dragon Claw Elemental Strike, and may be used to clinch as long as the mote cost is paid for each subsequent action.

If used in a combo with a martial arts charm aspected to the same element, Dragon Bends His Tail is always considered to be an unarmed attack.

[aetherialDawn]

she takes it about as well as she would take the Ebon Dragon using Mocking Murmurs Retort every time she made a suggestion to Malfeas. Which, come to think of it, is probably what happened when she insisted the gods not be given free will.

Fairly convincing...
She sees both (Free Will/Raksha Adjurations) as things which take her perfect hierarchy, and then mess it up. It's worse than another, imperfect hierarchy - that doesn't actually harm her, after all - because it's ruining her perfection.

Although that raises the question: What about Raksha who do take a permanent Assumption? Integrating everything into the perfect hierarchy is one of her goals as I understand it (whether by bringing them in or unmaking them.)
As a Yozi, the answer is probably "Like everything else, they're horrible things that don't obey my Philosophical Zombie views and so should be utterly destroyed and replaced with my Whispering Flame P-Zombies."


On Dragon Bends His Tail: Celestial Martial Arts from any direction at any range within Essence x 50 yards.
Instinct says:
No.

If you want this to be a thing, it will probably need to have a much lesser range for using any other charms with it (the range for just this charm probably is fine. Probably.)
It will also need to apply a maximum to how many extra charms can be applied; no more than one charm to the attack, probably. Any other charms would have to be strictly defensive and not influence the attack.

[Kyeudo]

I consider it a redundant question because you're worrying about balance in a system that doesn't actually function properly in any capacity. I wouldn't worry about numbers of background dots, because the way backgrounds themselves are handled is terrible. But even then, why worry about backgrounds at all? Abilities, attributes, motes, willpower, the very basic dice mechanics of the system are fundamentally awful, not even getting into the fact that combat is so bad it verges on the comical, and there might as well not be a social or mass combat system because their quality shoots right past laughable into sad.

You're playing Superman 64 and complaining about the cape physics. It's redundant.

Odd. We seem to have widely diverging ideas about the system. Of all the systems I've played or read, Exalted's system is the most elegant one I've found. Yes, it has GAPING CAVERNOUS HOLES in its rules set that you could put a colossus warstrider through and balance is a joke, but when it comes to resolving something on the fly, I just have to ask myself what dice pool it would probably be, pick an arbitrary difficulty out of the air, and go with it. I don't have to figure out what would be level appropriate or what would overtax the expected resources of my PCs.

Besides, I like trying to fix the system. I just spent days typing 69 pages of rules text into my computer just so I can delete most of it as I tinker with the core engine, revise the entire Solar Charm set, and rebalance every weapon ever printed for Exalted. And that's just where I plan to start out. I've already got about 10 pages of handwritten notes about how to gut Lunars and put them back together so that their shapeshifting isn't a joke, their charm set can actually do something, and so that they can stop being Silver Solars and start being their own thing. I'm only up to 3 pages on Sidereals. Revising social combat is currently looking like the single hardest issue to tackle, but major revisions always have their bumps.

[golentan]

@ aetherialDawn: I figured that since DBHT is a Simple action, and with the Aspect rules, that limits the celestial cheese that can be done with it (only Immaculate styles and only Supplemental charms for going on the offensive, basically).

[aetherialDawn]

@ aetherialDawn: I figured that since DBHT is a Simple action, and with the Aspect rules, that limits the celestial cheese that can be done with it (only Immaculate styles and only Supplemental charms for going on the offensive, basically).

Hm. A semi interesting point, and I don't know enough about DBs to argue against it exactly.

I still don't think this should have too much charm-stacking for Immaculate Monks.

Also... Simple Speed 5/DV -1, the standard?

[Xefas]

Odd. We seem to have widely diverging ideas about the system. Of all the systems I've played or read, Exalted's system is the most elegant one I've found. Yes, it has GAPING CAVERNOUS HOLES in its rules set that you could put a colossus warstrider through and balance is a joke, but when it comes to resolving something on the fly, I just have to ask myself what dice pool it would probably be, pick an arbitrary difficulty out of the air, and go with it. I don't have to figure out what would be level appropriate or what would overtax the expected resources of my PCs.

What other games have you played?

When things like "dice pools" and "not having to figure out level appropriate encounters" are revolutions in game design to someone, I can't help but assume their experience is mostly with D&D and its associated children - d20, White Wolf, GURPS, M&M, Shadowrun, etc.

These games condition you to accept mediocrity. To think things like imbalance, house rules, long prep times, fiddly math, and broken mechanics are just things you have to live with to roleplay. That's not true. Most games don't have those things. You just have to see them.

Ron Edward's "Sorcerer" is a good place to start if you want to see genuinely good roleplaying game design. That's the tip (rim?) of the rabbit hole - I could probably come up with 100+ games (not a hyperbole) that are better designed than Exalted if I had a mind to.

Hell, this dude over on the Exalted forums made a game about a thousand times better than Exalted, while it's still in its alpha stage, alone, without being paid for it.

And why? Well, it's hard to explain to someone that hasn't experienced it already. But this podcast does an okay job explaining it. And there are forums for this kind of thing: 1, 2, 3. Of course, a video on game mechanics doesn't hurt. And I don't mind discussing it further in PMs (follow the white rabbit, etc, etc).

[golentan]

It is, as you say, the standard.

And combo rules, regardless of supplement specificity, remove a lot of hax before they get started.