Spell Idea: Hurricane of Fists

[johnbragg]

Saw the phrase "Hurricane of Fists" in something else, and thought it was an obvious name for a new spell.

Mechanically, you're looking at a large number of attack rolls, each for minor damage. Probably one attack roll per caster level, for one or two or three points of damage each, depending on what level you put the spell at.

I think you'd have to use the base attack roll of a fighter of your caster level, otherwise all you're doing is missing a lot of attacks in one round.

Ooooh--or is it a high-level spell designed for an arcane caster to take down a lot of mooks on a battlefield, with a VERY wide area of effect and an extended duration (1 round/2CL)? I don't know of a spell designed to kill off 1HD creatures over an entire battlefield, which 2 hp per round for 7 rounds (15th level caster) would do. Caster would have to make Concentration checks every round, but that's not much of an issue at that level.

[desero clades]

1 attack per CL would lag the game soooo much...

[Cheesy74]

I like the idea but agree that that many attack rolls would be agonizingly slow.

Maybe this could be a buff? I could see giving an ally +1 attack at their highest bonus per 5 CLs on their next attack action (so it could affect both standard-action attacks and full attacks) within the next minute working pretty well.

I don't have much experience pegging spells but that sounds 4th-level-ish to me?

[johnbragg]

1 attack per CL would lag the game soooo much...

If it's on a single target, not at all. Roll 'em all at once. Rolling 10 attacks for 2 points each doesn't take any more time than rolling a 10-die fireball. Roll 5 d20's that's 1, 2, 3 hits--roll them again, that's 4, 5, 6, 7. 14 points of damage at 2 hp each, 21 points at 3 each.

Maybe this could be a buff? I could see giving an ally +1 attack at their highest bonus per 5 CLs on their next attack action (so it could affect both standard-action attacks and full attacks) within the next minute working pretty well.

I like that idea, but I think Hurricane of Fists should be an actual storm of magical fists punching people. One target, all targets within sight, I don't know.

[Eurus]

I would strongly advise cutting the number of attacks and raising the damage on each. Otherwise you run into some awkward cases where people with "+X to damage rolls" from anything (Knowledge Devotion comes to mind as the biggest example) end up with rather large bonuses.

[Network]

Err... wouldn't that make the monk redundant? What if the spell summoned a multi-armed monk? At least the wizard won't be a better monk than the monk, just summon a monk. Does it sound monkish enough that way?

And if the monk doesn't have full BAB (and he doesn't), neither should the wizard doing his job.

[johnbragg]

Err... wouldn't that make the monk redundant? What if the spell summoned a multi-armed monk? At least the wizard won't be a better monk than the monk, just summon a monk. Does it sound monkish enough that way?

And if the monk doesn't have full BAB (and he doesn't), neither should the wizard doing his job.

10th level monk is attacking 3x for d10 damage, in melee. 10th level caster is attacking 10x for 1 or 2 or 3 points of damage, at range. Not really the same.

Good point about the fighter attack bonus.

[johnbragg]

I would strongly advise cutting the number of attacks and raising the damage on each.

Then wouldn't it just duplicate a bunch of other spells?

Otherwise you run into some awkward cases where people with "+X to damage rolls" from anything (Knowledge Devotion comes to mind as the biggest example) end up with rather large bonuses.

Ooof.

Maybe specify in the spell description that the caster is not attacking, the Hurricane of Fists is? That would rule out most feats etc, that would buff the attack rolls and damage.

PRobably some thought should go into what school this is--energy effects usually scream "Evocation", but semi-independent actors would be Conjuration/Summoning.

[gurgleflep]

Ya'll're using the wrong dice if it lags your game! Get these and laugh at everybody's inferior dice!

I've actually got a set of these they save a bunch of time when it comes to attack rolls - there's a d4, d6, d8, d10, d12, and a d20 - no percentile. It does two rolls at once and works pretty good

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Saw the phrase "Hurricane of Fists" in something else, and thought it was an obvious name for a new spell.

I'd say it's more likely a Monk ability or Tome of Battle maneuver, but spell could work as well, yes.

Mechanically, you're looking at a large number of attack rolls, each for minor damage. Probably one attack roll per caster level, for one or two or three points of damage each, depending on what level you put the spell at.

I think you'd have to use the base attack roll of a fighter of your caster level, otherwise all you're doing is missing a lot of attacks in one round.

This would be extremely problematic with any abilities that add damage (sneak attack comes to mind) or force saves (such as the feat Touch of Golden Ice, among other things), as well as several other mechanics that interact poorly with huge numbers of attacks.

The first thing that comes to mind is that this could very easily be a reflavored Avalanche of Blades from Tome of Battle: make an attack, and keep making attacks at greater and greater penalties until you miss an attack.

As a spell...well, it's trickier. What did you see the spell doing visually/flavor-wise? Are we talking a close-range blur of the caster's hands as he strikes multiple times, or a long-range conjuration of ghostly punching fists, or something else entirely?

[johnbragg]

I'd say it's more likely a Monk ability or Tome of Battle maneuver, but spell could work as well, yes.

Monks already have Flurry of Blows,

This would be extremely problematic with any abilities that add damage (sneak attack comes to mind) or force saves (such as the feat Touch of Golden Ice, among other things), as well as several other mechanics that interact poorly with huge numbers of attacks.

Yeah, I was really thinking of the old 2e punching rules. Very little damage, but attack 10 times and you're getting somewhere.

As a spell...well, it's trickier. What did you see the spell doing visually/flavor-wise? Are we talking a close-range blur of the caster's hands as he strikes multiple times, or a long-range conjuration of ghostly punching fists, or something else entirely?

A conjuration or evocation of ghostly punching fists at range. (I'm old school, I don't play casters who do melee if they have a choice.) There's a game at Chuck E Cheese with a windchamber full of tickets and you grab as many as you can? Like that, except with silvery-blue eldritch mage hands clenched into fists instead of Chuck E Cheese tickets.

Actually, that breaks down a little, because the tickets (or leaves in the wind) aren't trying to hurt you. So maybe the wizard attack progression makes sense, although that makes the spell less useful.

Wait, this is a Hurricane of Fists. So why not make it a Conjuration/Summoning spell, Energy(Air) type, and you're conjuring (Caster Level) "aggros" from the Plane of Air? Augment Summoning would give each of the fists a +4 to Strength (and Con, but that's largely irrelevant). That means the caster isn't using his own attack rolls and he's not doing the damage, the "aggros" are. So buffs to the caster and caster combat feats are irrelevant.

[The Oni]

Flavorwise, maybe it's a variation of a Slow spell that allows a very brief slowdown in time so that the caster is able to strike enemies during the duration.

[Hanuman]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tome_of_Battle