Who's Going to Destroy Girard's Gate?

[Dr.Epic]

An illusory magical gate is also a magical gate. So could the self-opening gate that leads to Girards mansion. The oracle only needs a little bit of wiggle room to come up with accurate but useless information.

Illusory magical gate? What are you talking about?

[rbetieh]

Illusory magical gate? What are you talking about?

Only that Girard could have blown up the gate himself years ago, and covered it up with an illusion of a gate, which is what the Oracle would have seen. We know he likes to make smarty-pants, unhelpfull prophecies, so saying he was going to girards "gate" would fit. Personally, I dont know why they didnt just ask the Oracle which gate Xykon would visit last, and assume he would fail at all the other gates....

[Peelee]

Only that Girard could have blown up the gate himself years ago, and covered it up with an illusion of a gate, which is what the Oracle would have seen. We know he likes to make smarty-pants, unhelpfull prophecies, so saying he was going to girards "gate" would fit. Personally, I dont know why they didnt just ask the Oracle which gate Xykon would visit last, and assume he would fail at all the other gates....

I don't know why people keep thinking that of the Oracle. So far as I can recall, he's only made smarty-pants, unhelpful prophecies when it was a joke (like saying Xykon was "in his thrown room," to Roy... who then held the Oracle out a window for a better answer). All others he's given - that Durkon will return posthumously, that Belkar will die, that Belkar will kill one of the people he listed, how Haley will get her voice back, etc - have been pretty straightfoward

[Dr.Epic]

Only that Girard could have blown up the gate himself years ago, and covered it up with an illusion of a gate, which is what the Oracle would have seen. We know he likes to make smarty-pants, unhelpfull prophecies, so saying he was going to girards "gate" would fit. Personally, I dont know why they didnt just ask the Oracle which gate Xykon would visit last, and assume he would fail at all the other gates....

He blew up the Gate? What? How? I think he'd be more careful about it? That, and wouldn't the scrying device around each Gate notify the others of this?

[rbetieh]

He blew up the Gate? What? How? I think he'd be more careful about it? That, and wouldn't the scrying device around each Gate notify the others of this?

If it happened 60 years ago, he had ample time to explain it away...but I guess it would be a stretch based on the recorded message the order found. Or he could have tricked Soon into believing it was a false alarm somehow...This is kind of the thinking behind it.

[Jay R]

If Durkon dies, there are only really two possibilities: either the party has to travel with his body for a while until they find someone who can res him, which has already been done with Roy and would just seem like a repeat, or someone (like Malack, for instance) would res him instantly, making his death completely extraneous and pointless - why have him die if he comes back to life ten minutes later? Wouldn't it just be easier to have him just live, and not waste a filler strip rezzing him?

There are always more than two possibilities:

1. Durkon dies, and is drinking beer with Thor when somebody attempts Resurrection, so he is unwilling to return.
2. Durkon believes that his new mission is to explain about Xykon's plan to the gods, so is unwilling to return.
3. He dies as Girard's Gate is destroyed, and the Order has to go to the dwarven land to find Kraagor's Gate. They are about to resurrect Durkon, when Roy remembers the prophecy and realizes that Durkon has to return to those lands posthumously, and concludes that resurrecting him now means he must die again, so they bring his body back posthumously, then resurrect him. (Of course, those who have read The Origin of the PCs have already taken this to its logical conclusion.)

Personally, I dont know why they didnt just ask the Oracle which gate Xykon would visit last, and assume he would fail at all the other gates....

Because Xykon might visit one gate, complete his plans, become all-powerful, conquer the world, destroy all good or lawful people in the world, and then visit another gate for some reason.

[Incom]

ok how about this for a mind-warp. Girard was charged with protecting a gate right? And he knows his buddies are all going to protect theirs right? And he knows that the destruction of a single gate wont put anyone in danger right? So he blew up his own gate 60 years ago, and is covering up the hole with an illusion. Problem solved. In the most chaotic manner possible.

This is a fairly cool theory, but it requires the Oracle to be either wrong or lying. His prophecy to Roy states that Xykon will be in the vicinity of "Girard's Gate", not "Girard's Rift", before he is in the vicinity of Kraagor's Gate.

Epic illusionist is sufficiently epic to fool a non-epic oracle?

[zimmerwald1915]

Epic illusionist is sufficiently epic to fool a non-epic oracle?

Possibly. But the Oracle was in his trance at the time. Epic illusionists can fool gods, but it's a much less sure proposition than fooling indeterminate-level Experts.

[Anarion]

Regarding Belkar, Roy says here that Belkar has less than seven weeks left. Since then they
a) took a boat to the western continent (indeterminate time)
b) spent a day in Sandsedge
c) traveled by purple worm to Girard's gate fake location (about a day)
d) spent a day and a night searching
e) went to Empire of Blood, where have spent less than a week (unless off screen search time was longer)

So Belkar still has 5-6 weeks unless the boat journey was extremely long, which is unlikely considering that the continent was visible as the boat heads into the sunset. That's plenty of time for him to make it to Kraagor's gate.

[denthor]

Caution Start of darkness spoiler.

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The high priest of Odin came to the high priest of Thor and stated "Upon the return of Durkon thundershield. Doom would come.

Later a dwarf that played poker with the high priest of Thor says

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"I know when you are bluffin'. High priest says the above and the brew master states "you daft fool you sent him on a trip"

High priest

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"The lad is so lawful he will stay away until he is called back home so if he never returns doom can not come to us"

Please note the ku fu chicks letter.

I have very little time at the moment if some else wants to fill in the blanks please feel free. Plus do not have the start of darkness at this location.

[Gift Jeraff]

Regarding Belkar, Roy says here that Belkar has less than seven weeks left. Since then they
a) took a boat to the western continent (indeterminate time)
b) spent a day in Sandsedge
c) traveled by purple worm to Girard's gate fake location (about a day)
d) spent a day and a night searching
e) went to Empire of Blood, where have spent less than a week (unless off screen search time was longer)

So Belkar still has 5-6 weeks unless the boat journey was extremely long, which is unlikely considering that the continent was visible as the boat heads into the sunset. That's plenty of time for him to make it to Kraagor's gate.

a) It took a day to travel to Sandsedge (Blackwing says V was home 2 days ago, SSaDT shows nighttime on the boat).
b) It was probably less than a day at Sandsedge
c & d) They spent a week in the desert (The Giant's post, Redcloak says the 1-year anniversary of the Battle of Azure City is in 6 weeks)
e) They spent a week searching the various cities (The Giant's post, Nale's comment here); 2 full days have passed in the EoB, and it is around noon of the third day (Tarquin's comment here)

So by my count, Belkar has about 4 and a half weeks, and of course he can die at any moment now and the prophecy would still hold true.

[veti]

I don't know why people keep thinking that of the Oracle. So far as I can recall, he's only made smarty-pants, unhelpful prophecies when it was a joke (like saying Xykon was "in his thrown room," to Roy... who then held the Oracle out a window for a better answer). All others he's given - that Durkon will return posthumously, that Belkar will die, that Belkar will kill one of the people he listed, how Haley will get her voice back, etc - have been pretty straightfoward

Well, "the right four words" and the "gift horse" were accurate, but not exactly helpful or unambiguous. As for Durkon's prophecy - it hasn't been fulfilled yet, so we've no way of knowing how straightforward or deceptive it may have been.

And the Oracle himself encouraged the creative interpretation of his prophecies, when he tried to persuade Belkar not to kill him. All in all, "smarty-pants, unhelpful prophecies" seems a pretty fair description to me.

[VanBuren]

Well, "the right four words" and the "gift horse" were accurate, but not exactly helpful or unambiguous. As for Durkon's prophecy - it hasn't been fulfilled yet, so we've no way of knowing how straightforward or deceptive it may have been.

And the Oracle himself encouraged the creative interpretation of his prophecies, when he tried to persuade Belkar not to kill him. All in all, "smarty-pants, unhelpful prophecies" seems a pretty fair description to me.

Although it seems like he was prepared to give a straightforward answer to Roy's question, which is why he asked him if he wanted to rephrase it. The Oracle enjoys many things, but breaking the plot sequence is not one of them.

[The Pilgrim]

Let's see...

- The First Gate was destroyed by a member of Team Evil
- The Second Gate was destroyed by a member of the OOTS
- The Third Gate was destroyed by a member of the organization in charge of protecting it

Hence, the fourth gate will not be destroyed by a member of Team Evil, by a member of the OOTS, neither by Giriard or it's organization, as that would make the plot repetitive.

So, either Tarquin, the Linear Guild, the IFCC (via V or otherwise), or an intervention from the Gods themselves, are the best horses to bet on.