OOTS #816 - The Discussion Thread

[Peelee]

But that's the thing. Oracle powers are presented as special, and his ability to actually see the panels is unique.

....except that it's not. Haley could grab a diamond from the Meet the Character page. Roy lamented on how many strips were used searching for star metal, and Durkon used strips as a unit of time for his Empire of Blood visa application. Belkar constantly is calling attention to the fact that he is the only funny thing left in the strip. The cleric of Loki was even able to tell when there was a cutaway panel, and he was a one-off NPC (the only reason he couldn't actually SEE the panel was because it was happening in realtime, and was not being explained away by any other character. Also, it made the punchline)! Talking directly to the reader isn't even an oracle-only trick, as the demon roaches pull that all the time!

The characters recognize that the world they live in is a comic strip, and as such can see expositionary panels when either ease-of-storytelling or need-for-the-joke calls for them to. It's a quirk of the medium and the character psyches, and one of the many reasons I enjoy the comic so much. It's metaphysicality on a very silly and absurd level. That the characters can see panels like that is part of the strip's charm.

[zimmerwald1915]

I only postulated we don't know enough about the situation to judge, and certainly not judge as strongly as 'genocide whole family!' voices.

Huh. It seems we've got at least a few people calling for the killing of a family line (how wide a net to cast, I wonder?) whose members' actions according to what we have seen and been told are mostly on the Evil side of the street. Why does this sound familiar?

[bronnt]

In short, it seems to me that it may be dealt with on a case-by-case basis, and there is no hard and fast rule governing all such instances. Could very easily be wrong here, though.

I won't disagree with that. I do, however, compare that situation to here, where since it's in the middle of a plot exposition, we can assume that the entire strips, including the commentary within them, are just representations of what Tarquin is telling Elan in great detail.

Elsewhere, we see characters showing occasional knowledge of cut-away panels without being certain what is in them, and sometimes they seem to be able to see exactly what's going on in them.

[Peelee]

Aaaaaand bronnt is my new favorite person on these boards. Thanks for digging up examples for me, since it's kinda tricky at the moment. You rock.

[Kish]

You can promise that, eh? So you're a future future psychic then?

And yeah, I don't care about what others might do. This isn't that situation, and I'm not them.

Very ironically, one person in this thread is arguing that an act which is reprehensible on the face of it is just fine because of where the person committing it falls on the Lawful/Chaotic alignment axis.

How does the saying go? "Battle not with monsters lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss the abyss gazes into you."

[AutomatedTeller]

What's ironic in these words, I think, is that a lot of people who condemn Girard right now would furiously defend the same act as paragon of Goodness had it been a Paladin that left a family to introduce his daughter to Paladin order, taking money to be spent in the cause of gods

I don't think so. I think that a paladin who acted that way would run a serious risk of losing their paladin status and if the other paladins found out, they would be condemned. (assuming we have all the facts, of course. the only source of information on this is Tarquin, who tends to not pass along information... a lot)

[rbetieh]

I don't think so. I think that a paladin who acted that way would run a serious risk of losing their paladin status and if the other paladins found out, they would be condemned. (assuming we have all the facts, of course. the only source of information on this is Tarquin, who tends to not pass along information... a lot)

Well you might both be right. If it was saving a child from an evil parent and de-financing the evil parents evil scheme of evilness, I think the Paladin has to act. Then there is the 'Destined child' scenario where if you accept that an LG character can act in defense of "The greater good" instead of "good itself" may be enough to allow the action to happen. (I am totally playing devils advocate right now, playing a Pally is the one class where you pretty much have to negotiate with the DM ahead of time on how to play him, and if you dont agree on a moral code, you just cannot do it).

[AutomatedTeller]

double post...

[AutomatedTeller]

Well you might both be right. If it was saving a child from an evil parent and de-financing the evil parents evil scheme of evilness, I think the Paladin has to act. Then there is the 'Destined child' scenario where if you accept that an LG character can act in defense of "The greater good" instead of "good itself" may be enough to allow the action to happen. (I am totally playing devils advocate right now, playing a Pally is the one class where you pretty much have to negotiate with the DM ahead of time on how to play him, and if you dont agree on a moral code, you just cannot do it).

Yes, clearly there are situations where doing so can be a good thing - in fact, for all we know, this might be one of them.

[Zorgophlats]

....except that it's not. …(snip)… The cleric of Loki was even able to tell when there was a cutaway panel, and he was a one-off NPC (the only reason he couldn't actually SEE the panel was because it was happening in realtime, and was not being explained away by any other character. Also, it made the punchline)! …(snip)…

I got all the references except for this one. Link please… or is this from Book 0… I don't have that one yet.

[SmaugTheYounger]

I got all the references except for this one. Link please… or is this from Book 0… I don't have that one yet.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0602.html

[Bulldog Psion]

What's ironic in these words, I think, is that a lot of people who condemn Girard right now would furiously defend the same act as paragon of Goodness had it been a Paladin that left a family to introduce his daughter to Paladin order, taking money to be spent in the cause of gods

No, I think a lot of them might be thinking "Why did the paladin commit robbery and kidnapping without falling? Is this a mistake on the part of the author? Is there something about the situation we don't know?"

[Doc Roc]

No, I think a lot of them might be thinking "Why did the paladin commit robbery and kidnapping without falling? Is this a mistake on the part of the author? Is there something about the situation we don't know?"

I'm with you here. I'd definitely not be over-joyed. Honestly, this whole thing was really weird to me, and kinda gave me the heebie-jeebies. Ethical concerns aside, I mean, it's just a bizarre approach in a high-magic world. Why not use simulacra of yourself or something?

[Abrexa]

I liked it

....except that it's not. Haley could grab a diamond from the Meet the Character page. Roy lamented on how many strips were used searching for star metal, and Durkon used strips as a unit of time for his Empire of Blood visa application. Belkar constantly is calling attention to the fact that he is the only funny thing left in the strip. The cleric of Loki was even able to tell when there was a cutaway panel, and he was a one-off NPC (the only reason he couldn't actually SEE the panel was because it was happening in realtime, and was not being explained away by any other character. Also, it made the punchline)! Talking directly to the reader isn't even an oracle-only trick, as the demon roaches pull that all the time!

The characters recognize that the world they live in is a comic strip, and as such can see expositionary panels when either ease-of-storytelling or need-for-the-joke calls for them to. It's a quirk of the medium and the character psyches, and one of the many reasons I enjoy the comic so much. It's metaphysicality on a very silly and absurd level. That the characters can see panels like that is part of the strip's charm.

If so, why no one saw ghost Roy when he was clearly visible in panels?

[Prowl]

Interesting... Haley's hair color appears to be the exact same shade as the illusionist in the story... and the baby girl's hair is also red. Is Haley really a member of the Draketooth clan, adopted by the Starshines? /epileptictree

[AutomatedTeller]

I liked it



If so, why no one saw ghost Roy when he was clearly visible in panels?

It's probably a good thing - Durkon would have tried to turn Roy, I'm sure. Even from a continent away :)

[Peelee]

I got all the references except for this one. Link please… or is this from Book 0… I don't have that one yet.

Penultimate panel

EDIT: Note to self, REALLY should start reading the rest of the thread before I respond. Thanks for the help, kind ninja

[Mutant Sheep]

So... did everybody forget about Gourntonk, the Reptilian ambassador? And his super-secret whispers to the Empress? Who is a big, RED, dragon?

[rbetieh]

So... did everybody forget about Gourntonk, the Reptilian ambassador? And his super-secret whispers to the Empress? Who is a big, RED, dragon?

Are you implying that the Empress is both crazy enough and stupid enough to double-cross Tarquin and at the same time smart enough to come up with a plan that works?

I bet you if the current ruler outed their 'advisors', two new advisors would show up the next day....

[Mutant Sheep]

Are you implying that the Empress is both crazy enough and stupid enough to double-cross Tarquin and at the same time smart enough to come up with a plan that works?

I bet you if the current ruler outed their 'advisors', two new advisors would show up the next day....

*cough* RED*cough* (The Empress is a Draketooth! Since Draketooth's are dragons...
either that, or just a Draketooth under a really good illusion spell with Overland Flight.)

[Peelee]

I liked it



If so, why no one saw ghost Roy when he was clearly visible in panels?

Because everyone but the oracle failed their spot and listen checks. So neener neener. Bad joke question gets bad joke answer!

[Peelee]

*cough* RED*cough* (The Empress is a Draketooth! Since Draketooth's are dragons...
either that, or just a Draketooth under a really good illusion spell with Overland Flight.)

Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

[Adanedhel]

I only postulated we don't know enough about the situation to judge, and certainly not judge as strongly as 'genocide whole family!' voices.

In which case I apologise for that. However I'm still of the opinion that if Tarquins story is correct and Orrin has no unknown reasons for doing this, this was an evil act.

Cultural differences, then. Recently, we had a national case that was a whole lot worse than that.

but here's the thing, it was a case, which means that both parents had to take the risk of going to court rather then find an agreement, furthermore the judge (who may or may not have been justified) was the one too take the child away, rather then one person choosing for it, if I interpret this correctly. Would you mind posting a link about that one? I prefere to be able to correctly make my judgement about what happened :)

Still, if it really is worse there you have my condoleances on that (not sure of the right english word in context, it is not my native tongue)

[J's]

I won't disagree with that. I do, however, compare that situation to here, where since it's in the middle of a plot exposition, we can assume that the entire strips, including the commentary within them, are just representations of what Tarquin is telling Elan in great detail.

Elsewhere, we see characters showing occasional knowledge of cut-away panels without being certain what is in them, and sometimes they seem to be able to see exactly what's going on in them.

It seems (in my memory) that when it is a cut away to a different and concurrent scene that they do not see what is happening - though they do know that a cut away happened. The concurrent plot exposition by Ian and Tarquin allowed US to see that the 2 groups of the party now both know the score in the Western Continent, but each side only really heard what the character talking to them said.

As for whether or not they see the flashbacks when someone is storytelling -- 'Summon Plot Exposition' --- we all ready have an in comic joke about it.

[Tobimaro]

Love the latest comic. And now the Order gets to get back on track to find the gates.

Who wants to speculate that Team Evil (Xykon and company) will beat the Linear Guild to the gate? Anyone?

[The Succubus]

But that's the thing. Oracle powers are presented as special, and his ability to actually see the panels is unique.

A thought occured to me. Maybe the Oracle isn't actually psychic, he might just have a full set of the Order of the Stick books. Lucky son of a lizard.

[Narren]

Interesting... Haley's hair color appears to be the exact same shade as the illusionist in the story... and the baby girl's hair is also red. Is Haley really a member of the Draketooth clan, adopted by the Starshines? /epileptictree

The girl is only 14 or 15 years old.

[faustin]

Interesting... Haley's hair color appears to be the exact same shade as the illusionist in the story... and the baby girl's hair is also red. Is Haley really a member of the Draketooth clan, adopted by the Starshines? /epileptictree

Great. First the Semicelestial meme and now this one..... why cannot people accept that Haley is a normal badass Rogue, and nothing more?

[Jay R]

A thought occured to me. Maybe the Oracle isn't actually psychic, he might just have a full set of the Order of the Stick books. Lucky son of a lizard.

The full set doesn't exist yet. That still requires looking into the future.

[Narren]

The full set doesn't exist yet. That still requires looking into the future.

Maybe the Oracle is Rich? He IS wearing hat...could be a hat of disguise.