Bleach V: Well that was a waste of time (Fullbring? What's that?)

[Psyren]

I think there's one for where the Dragon replaces the Big Bad, but Aizen killed the most likely candidate.

I know about Dragon Ascendant, but it's not what I meant. I mean where a new Big Bad (not an existing Dragon) comes out of nowhere and effortlessly defeats the old one to immediately establish his badassery in the eyes of the audience.

Still hitting a block on examples though...

I may have to start a YKTTW on this

[Tenno Seremel]

I mean where a new Big Bad (not an existing Dragon) comes out of nowhere and effortlessly defeats the old one to immediately establish his badassery in the eyes of the audience.

The Worf Effect? Oh, “If a new villain introduces himself by beating the previous villain, that's Make Way For The New Villains (a subtrope).”

[Turalisj]

I know about Dragon Ascendant, but it's not what I meant. I mean where a new Big Bad (not an existing Dragon) comes out of nowhere and effortlessly defeats the old one to immediately establish his badassery in the eyes of the audience.

Still hitting a block on examples though...

I may have to start a YKTTW on this

Always a Bigger Fish

[Psyren]

The disappointment of this arc just hit me again - we learned nothing about Chad and Orihime

Always a Bigger Fish

Yeah, that's closer, but too immediate - nobody's really worried about Aizen right now, so it's not like they'd really be saved from him, unless he took over the prison and was leading an uprising just prior to being eaten.

Checking the related tropes on that page, the closest I've yet found was Eviler Than Thou. That would fit perfectly but for the stipulation about villains' plots colliding - the trope I'm envisioning is where the supplanting threat is totally new, rather than an established scheming big bad. I don't think Bleach has one of those, though Kubo could always surprise us.

[Drolyt]

Heh. Was thinking more along the lines of e.g. Crovax taking over from Volrath or some other situation where the previous big bad is supplanted violently by the new one. (I know there's a trope for that, but my search-fu is failing me...)

Isn't that just the Sorting Algorithm of Evil combined with the Worf Effect?

[thubby]

are we now doing trope math?

in that case, i demand to know the integral of the flying brick

[Revlid]

I am busily laughing my ass off at Ukitake and Kyoraku being so nostalgic about how Ichiho's grown up when they weren't looking, considering that Ukitake met him once (in order to give him a bugged badge) and Kyoraku has never actually had a conversation with him.

Further amused by the apparent massive reform Soul Society has undergone in reaction to an abnormally-powerful teenager breaking and entering, and then beating up the Big Bad. I mean, sure, they still employ Mayuri, they still have a secret police, the Central 42 is still in charge, and we've heard nothing more about the hellish, ghettoized lower districts, but the Commander didn't order the murder of a former ally once they looked like they might be in trouble! That's progress!

God, this manga has fallen so far from its promising beginnings. I'm going to spend my weekend re-reading Lucifer & Biscuit Hammer. Now that's quality storytelling; and he only needed 65 chapters to do it, too.

[Drolyt]

I am busily laughing my ass off at Ukitake and Kyoraku being so nostalgic about how Ichiho's grown up when they weren't looking, considering that Ukitake met him once (in order to give him a bugged badge) and Kyoraku has never actually had a conversation with him.

Further amused by the apparent massive reform Soul Society has undergone in reaction to an abnormally-powerful teenager breaking and entering, and then beating up the Big Bad. I mean, sure, they still employ Mayuri, they still have a secret police, the Central 42 is still in charge, and we've heard nothing more about the hellish, ghettoized lower districts, but the Commander didn't order the murder of a former ally once they looked like they might be in trouble! That's progress!

God, this manga has fallen so far from its promising beginnings. I'm going to spend my weekend re-reading Lucifer & Biscuit Hammer. Now that's quality storytelling; and he only needed 65 chapters to do it, too.

I have to agree, but I must ask, what is Lucifer & Biscuit Hammer?

[Prime32]

Further amused by the apparent massive reform Soul Society has undergone in reaction to an abnormally-powerful teenager breaking and entering, and then beating up the Big Bad.

Also their entire government died. That's something.

[Drolyt]

Also their entire government died. That's something.

The fact that having your parliament equivalent slaughtered somehow improves your society says a lot about said society.

[Psyren]

The fact that having your parliament equivalent slaughtered somehow improves your society says a lot about said society.

{Insert topical comment about congress}

[Drolyt]

{Insert topical comment about congress}

I thought about that, but board rules and all that. Still, however incompetent a legislative body may be, they are still generally preferable to anarchy or martial law, and right now Soul Society seems to be a mix of the two.

[Trixie]

I think there's one for where the Dragon replaces the Big Bad, but Aizen killed the most likely candidate.

Isn't it more of a case of Did Not Found The Body?

[Fiery Diamond]

Spoiler

Show

Also, did Riruka just commit suicide? Or did she just leave?

I couldn't figure it out either.

Isn't it more of a case of Did Not Find The Body?

Fixed that for you, and no, I thought it was pretty clear that Gin was dead.

[Drolyt]

Fixed that for you, and no, I thought it was pretty clear that Gin was dead.

I don't think it was clear at all, if I recall we had a minor debate over the issue.

[VanBuren]

I don't think it was clear at all, if I recall we had a minor debate over the issue.

The anime made it far more explicit.

Cue "anime is not canon" in 3... 2... 1...

[thubby]

the fact that he internally recognized his own end proves it well enough for me.

[Drolyt]

The anime made it far more explicit.

Cue "anime is not canon" in 3... 2... 1...

It isn't, but at this point I think it is clear that Kubo meant for Gin to die. The fact that it wasn't immediately obvious was simply a result of poor dialog choice. Also the fact that it would have been more interesting if he lived.

[Psyren]

The anime made it far more explicit.

Cue "anime is not canon" in 3... 2... 1...

Nah, in Bleach it is (at least when covering canon material.) I think most if not everyone has realized that since Ashido and Harribel.

[Arakune]

Ashido?

And it's not uncommon for authors to homage the anime from time to time. One example is Bardak that appeared on the Bardak special before the cameo on the manga.

[VanBuren]

Nah, in Bleach it is (at least when covering canon material.) I think most if not everyone has realized that since Ashido and Harribel.

True. Just another reason why I more or less consider the anime to be the real thing, and the manga to just be the rough draft.

Mostly.

[The Troubadour]

He killed all of the likely candidates. Except for Tousen.

Grimmjow should still be alive.

[thubby]

Ashido?

And it's not uncommon for authors to homage the anime from time to time. One example is Bardak that appeared on the Bardak special before the cameo on the manga.

i thought he was actually really well done.

[Drolyt]

Ashido?

And it's not uncommon for authors to homage the anime from time to time. One example is Bardak that appeared on the Bardak special before the cameo on the manga.

I've always considered the TV specials (Bardock the Father of Goku and the one about what happens to Future Trunks when he goes home) to be canon anyways, with the homage being Toriyama's acknowledgement of that.

[Arakune]

It's canon for the anime so long the author don't give say it is, and the extra merchandise producers can make whatever they want if they simply ask for the company producing the anime instead of the author.

On those things, the authors kind of get the raw deal creatively speaking, but they are happy enough to gain some extra cash with the licensing.

[Psyren]

Ashido?

This guy

He appeared in the anime only, and Kubo said in an interview that he had wanted him to be in the manga too, but they cut the forest of menos bit for deadline constraints.

On those things, the authors kind of get the raw deal creatively speaking, but they are happy enough to gain some extra cash with the licensing.

I was always under the impression though that Kubo's relationship with the anime studio was pretty amicable. After all, he does take the time to design characters for their filler, including all the zanpakuto spirits.

At the very least, he seems to be okay with whatever they do so long as they can stagger out each season, giving him more time to not draw backgrounds

[Anteros]

I am busily laughing my ass off at Ukitake and Kyoraku being so nostalgic about how Ichiho's grown up when they weren't looking, considering that Ukitake met him once (in order to give him a bugged badge) and Kyoraku has never actually had a conversation with him.

Further amused by the apparent massive reform Soul Society has undergone in reaction to an abnormally-powerful teenager breaking and entering, and then beating up the Big Bad. I mean, sure, they still employ Mayuri, they still have a secret police, the Central 42 is still in charge, and we've heard nothing more about the hellish, ghettoized lower districts, but the Commander didn't order the murder of a former ally once they looked like they might be in trouble! That's progress!

God, this manga has fallen so far from its promising beginnings. I'm going to spend my weekend re-reading Lucifer & Biscuit Hammer. Now that's quality storytelling; and he only needed 65 chapters to do it, too.

Sometimes things happen off screen.

[Friv]

Sometimes things happen off screen.

But the key complaint had no time to happen. Ichigo spent almost no time in Soul Society during the periods when he could have been interacting with those two, and specifically hasn't seen any of them since he lost his powers.

*EDIT* Although I guess they could have been spying on him non-stop...

[Drolyt]

Sometimes things happen off screen.

Such a convenient excuse for poor storytelling.

[Fiery Diamond]

Such a convenient excuse for poor storytelling.

Better than an inconvenient excuse!

In all seriousness, I think Kubo has forgotten that while we the readers have had tons of exposure to those characters, Ichigo hasn't. Sort of like how he had trouble distinguishing between character experience and audience experience when he let Aizen's hypnosis work on the audience. He seems to have trouble separating the two.

As a side note, this would make him a terrible role player, because he wouldn't be able to divorce in-character knowledge from out-of-character knowledge.