MS Paint Adventures V: THIS IS STUPID

[Arrghus]

Potato! I think that's how you say "update" in this fandom

More specifically, potato is what you're supposed to call updates that happened like several hours ago, because otherwise everyone gets confused and skimmies over to the site to check for the "new" update all the time.

And I continue to enjoy AR's hilariously (intentionally?) bad grasp of numbers.

[Squark]

Man. I want those shades dead more then dirk. I hope when they break they break into Dirks eyes and blind him.....Thats kinda dark.

I don't know Dirk and Robo Dirk: Why don't you play the ****ing game on your own. You don't even NEED the kids. You won't shut the **** about how you can do everything the kids can do fifty times over.

Im sure robots can be god tiered. Or whatever.

He's arrogant, yes. Very, very arrogant. And I suspect he's going to be in for a rather nasty mistake sometime. Pride comes before the fall, after all.

But he really does care about the other kids, and he wants to help them. He's just emotionally stunted from living alone, and as such, tends to go about it in the wrong way.

[Scowling Dragon]

I know. How do I hate him so much more then the Jade! I don't hate jade at all! I like Jade! Yet she was in much more of a mary sue position then Dirk!

I guess It feels like he doesn't want to help as much as he wants to show off.

You know, like when you grab your controller away from your sister and then perform that ultra difficult set of moves because you memorized them all? And then say

"Your so stupid, THIS is how you do it."

[The_Final_Stand]

AR is also effectively a perpetual 13 year old.

Besides, it's important to remember, we're still seeing the "Pride" part before the "Fall".

I suspect the moment Dirk, in any particular form Falls, whether it's from Dream Dirk being Red Miles'd, or AR trying to make a clone of himself for his/it's own benefit and screwing up epically, or maybe Real!Dirk getting blindsided while being relied on, it will be quite impressive.

In the meantime, imagine that Hussie is trolling you.

[Scowling Dragon]

Yeah yeah. Oh well. Its all in good fun. As long THATS what Hussie does. Not the insulting thing of "I finally accepted help".

Thats the would be the worst conclusion to his arc.

[irenicObserver]

You know it occurs to me that I'm not sure why the Condesce wants the kids to play (not sure she wants you to win though AR) since the session is dead and void.

What would it be called? Blue Kilometre?

Well to me it would thematically have to be called something referring to Time, since Red Miles=distance=space. Going along with this the Red Miles attack is sort of like entropy, it destructively destroys matter, reducing it to a chaotic state of death. If what I said was true (which I now know it's not see below) then the White Queen's ring would make perfect sense to do that, increasing ordered mass and staving off entropy, exactly what the players are working towards.

That was just the battlefield evolving from the fourth prototyping. The queen's ring got all glowy because it is also affected by prototypings, but it didn't cause the change to the battlefield.

Oh...that's pretty weird. Did not notice that was around the same time Jane entered.

[Scowling Dragon]

A new universe for herself and english to **** up.

[Friv]

You know it occurs to me that I'm not sure why the Condesce wants the kids to play (not sure she wants you to win though AR) since the session is dead and void.

Well, I know why she wanted Jane to play. Without Jane playing, she couldn't take her battleship to Earth and take over. She needed the "meteors" to be spawning in order to pull it off.

Not so clear on why she wants the other kids to do so, other than "Lord English said so and you do not countermand him", but I expect proper reasons will be given in time.

[DukeGod]

Well, I know why she wanted Jane to play. Without Jane playing, she couldn't take her battleship to Earth and take over. She needed the "meteors" to be spawning in order to pull it off.

Not so clear on why she wants the other kids to do so, other than "Lord English said so and you do not countermand him", but I expect proper reasons will be given in time.

Something related to the Ultimate Alchemy?
Though I wonder if the Denizens spawn in a Void Session

[Squark]

Something related to the Ultimate Alchemy?
Though I wonder if the Denizens spawn in a Void Session

The salamander's writings would indicate so; They mention Hermea being the only thing left alive in LOCAH to great Jane.

[Scowling Dragon]

Maybe thats the power of redbloods:

The POWER OF LUV!

[Shadow of the Sun]

Well, this confirms what I already suspected: Lil Cal created himself.

Admittedly, this confirmation relies on uu's word, which is spurious, but whatever.

[Scowling Dragon]

How does this confirm it?

[Squark]

He can't be copied; ergo, all appearances of Cal must be himself, and he was involved in his own creation.

[irenicObserver]

Well if Li'l Cal is a juju and jujus are indestructible by the rules of the universe, it is likely jujus are objects created by temporal shenanigans at the same time becoming very important to the fate of many parties. Li'l Cal most likely didn't consciously create himself, but in a sense he did create himself, existing in Dave's dreams only to eventually inspire said dreams in the first place (confirm my memory, did Gamzee create Li'l Cal with his chucklevoodoos?). Maybe that's what makes LE so indestructible. He has intertwined himself into the fabric of paradox space by bringing together various jujus such as the Cueball, Li'l Cal, and the First Guardian code into himself making his existence supported by the laws of physics themselves.

[The_Final_Stand]

(confirm my memory, did Gamzee create Li'l Cal with his chucklevoodoos?).

Yes, he did.

After Dave asks "what fears", Gamzee notes it is the puppet, who is now his best friend. I.e. Cal.

Hmm. Maybe a critical component of Lord English is that a JuJu is used in his construction? We still aren't quite sure what a juju is, beyond that uu considers Cal in B2 to be one, and that UU says that they "have origins which are impossible to Understand or trace. some say they emerge spontaneoUsly from the void.".

Thing is, we kind of can trace Cal's origin?

Gamzee Chucklevoodoos it into Dave's dreams, it gets thrown onto a hoverboard and lands in the ectobiology lab, Dirk takes it with him, the B1 incarnation eventually takes Cal to fight Jack, who decides Cal is a true friend and takes him, eventually throwing him at an Aradiabot who time travels into an asteroid, landing on Alternia, where he is patched up by Kanaya, and eventually falls into Gamzee's possession.

The B2 incarnation is just still with Dirk, and hasn't done anything untoward? I think? Dirk is still making Cal move right? Right?

Doesn't that mean that when Dirk enters the Medium, and the Kids arrive on the meteor, that there will be two Cals? Because UU also said: "they cannot be trUly dUplicated. if there ever appears to be more than one of the same, it is only a mirage of caUsality!" So which one was duplicated? Probably the B2 one via Scratch. I think.

Cripes that's a long post about the origins and timeline of a puppet in a webcomic.

[Shadow of the Sun]

To be fair, WTS might explain Cal in B2.

See: Gamzee being there, and he was last in possession of Cal.

[irenicObserver]

We can only trace Cal's origins through our view from beyond the fourth wall. I'm not sure if the kids or the trolls figured it out yet (or even care). But then again, it could be the causality loop that makes the origin untraceable; the only reason it exists is because it exists.

The notion that they spring from the void even makes sense, if the Void referrs to Paradox Space. Since Paradox Space is talked about as if it were fate, the creation of Jujus goes in line with the idea of fundamental flaws in sessions dooming them. It could even be considered a reverse of the gaming abstraction idea in the sense that a few bad lines of code create random glitches in reality. Heck that could even explain all the callbacks to different "games" like Problem Sleuth and Jailbreak; straggling lines of code not properly removed before release.

EDIT: For some reason I have no idea why this makes me lmao so many times, everytime. It's centered around Dave's quote.

[Arrghus]

Cripes that's a long post about the origins and timeline of a puppet in a webcomic.

undyingUmbrage said he thought the B2 Cal looked dead, so I think that's the mirage one.

[Draconi Redfir]

Speaking of Cal, i dressed up as him for a convention the past few days.

To quote myself about the picture, "this is me, my beautiful wife Callete, and our son Cal Jr. We will raise him to haunt the dreams of small children."

[Scowling Dragon]

You destroyed my soul. I hope your happy.

[Draconi Redfir]

Yes. Yes i am.

[Friv]

Yes, he did.

After Dave asks "what fears", Gamzee notes it is the puppet, who is now his best friend. I.e. Cal.

Hmm. Maybe a critical component of Lord English is that a JuJu is used in his construction? We still aren't quite sure what a juju is, beyond that uu considers Cal in B2 to be one, and that UU says that they "have origins which are impossible to Understand or trace. some say they emerge spontaneoUsly from the void.".

Thing is, we kind of can trace Cal's origin?

Gamzee Chucklevoodoos it into Dave's dreams, it gets thrown onto a hoverboard and lands in the ectobiology lab, Dirk takes it with him, the B1 incarnation eventually takes Cal to fight Jack, who decides Cal is a true friend and takes him, eventually throwing him at an Aradiabot who time travels into an asteroid, landing on Alternia, where he is patched up by Kanaya, and eventually falls into Gamzee's possession.

Here's the trick, though, and the reason that you can't trace Cal's origins. Gamzee created Cal in Dave's dreams because Dave was afraid of the Cal that Bro had. That Cal only existed because Gamzee created him. It's a loop without a beginning. Cal didn't come from anywhere, he's an endlessly repeated piece of paradoxical information.

[irenicObserver]

Exactly what I said up there.

[Calemyr]

The path I always saw for L'il Cal (correct me where I'm wrong, if you would)

Gamzee creates Cal in Dave's dreams
Dream Cal ends up on a hoverboard
Dream Cal rides hoverboard to the Ectobiology lab
John gives Cal to Dirk/Bro Strider before sending him off
Bro Strider uses it in his ventriloquist act
Cal is shredded in a duel between Dave and Bro
Dave captchas the remains
Cal's remains end up in John's wallet (along with Zillyhoo)
John's wallet ends up hitting Alternia
John's wallet is found by Aradia
Aradia convinces Kanaya to fix Cal
Kanaya also makes Cal a snazzy Felt-styled suit (because she could)
Gamzee gets Felt-suited Cal (along with Zillyhoo)
Gamzee uses FS Cal as inspiration to create a Cal in Dave's dreams

Post scratch:
Dirk has Cal, but Cal is described as a "dead juju" by uu. If juju cannot be copied, it's possible that the scratch copied the puppet but not the essence that makes Cal so dangerous.

What have I missed? Where am I wrong?

[Squark]

Alternately, Alpha Little Cal is the same Little Cal, carried here by Gamzee and then lost somehow. How did he die? I don't know.

[Teln]

uu is now my second-least favorite character in Homestuck. It's going to take something pretty impressive for him to dislodge Eridan from the bottom spot.

[irenicObserver]

The path I always saw for L'il Cal (correct me where I'm wrong, if you would)

Spoiler

Show

Gamzee creates Cal in Dave's dreams
Dream Cal ends up on a hoverboard
Dream Cal rides hoverboard to the Ectobiology lab
John gives Cal to Dirk/Bro Strider before sending him off
Bro Strider uses it in his ventriloquist act
Cal is shredded in a duel between Dave and Bro
Dave captchas the remains
Cal's remains end up in John's wallet (along with Zillyhoo)
John's wallet ends up hitting Alternia
John's wallet is found by Aradia
Aradia convinces Kanaya to fix Cal
Kanaya also makes Cal a snazzy Felt-styled suit (because she could)
Gamzee gets Felt-suited Cal (along with Zillyhoo)
Gamzee uses FS Cal as inspiration to create a Cal in Dave's dreams

Post scratch:
Dirk has Cal, but Cal is described as a "dead juju" by uu. If juju cannot be copied, it's possible that the scratch copied the puppet but not the essence that makes Cal so dangerous.

What have I missed? Where am I wrong?

Hmm, I wasn't sure about your wording, it seemed to give Cal a definite beginning and end. But I get it.

There is an argument stewing over at the mspa forums, one about whether or not a juju can be passed on through alchemy. The consensus is split between yes and no (duh).

Yes- you can "send" a juju through alchemy codes, taking away the juju properties from the object you got the code from and transferring them to the alchemized copy.
No- Jujus cannot be duplicated by any means. UU is explicitly saying this and will probably send them by another means such as sendification.

One point of contention seems to be ambiguous wording and why would UU mention alchemy in the first place?

[Friv]

Exactly what I said up there.

Whoops, missed that one!


Anyway, about the recent uu update!

Spoiler

Show

Okay, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that uu is referring to DD and his Red Miles, and that if Dirk had drawn something for him he would have given him a way to evade the Miles. So the ****ty twist is that the person who dies is Dirk, or at least his dreamself.

*EDIT* Oh, wait, no I'm just an idiot. The red lines that uu is referring to are AR.

[Arrghus]

The path I always saw for L'il Cal (correct me where I'm wrong, if you would)

Gamzee creates Cal in Dave's dreams
Dream Cal ends up on a hoverboard
Dream Cal rides hoverboard to the Ectobiology lab
John gives Cal to Dirk/Bro Strider before sending him off
Bro Strider uses it in his ventriloquist act
Cal is shredded in a duel between Dave and Bro
Dave captchas the remains
Cal's remains end up in John's wallet (along with Zillyhoo)
John's wallet ends up hitting Alternia
John's wallet is found by Aradia
Aradia convinces Kanaya to fix Cal
Kanaya also makes Cal a snazzy Felt-styled suit (because she could)
Gamzee gets Felt-suited Cal (along with Zillyhoo)
Gamzee uses FS Cal as inspiration to create a Cal in Dave's dreams

Post scratch:
Dirk has Cal, but Cal is described as a "dead juju" by uu. If juju cannot be copied, it's possible that the scratch copied the puppet but not the essence that makes Cal so dangerous.

What have I missed? Where am I wrong?

I think this progression veers off at some point, because I distinctly remember Bro repairing Cal, using him against Noir, Noir taking him as a trophy and later using him as a weapon against an Aradiabot who crashes onto Alternia through a portal, whereupon the rest of that stuff happens.

I checked that last part, too. Cal isn't in the wallet, the wallet is in Cal.