IFCC and the Gate Move

[Rorrik]

After some discussion in this thread and the revelations received in the last strip about the real purpose of the gate ritual

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namely to move the portal to the plane of the gods where the Dark One could blackmail the other gods into providing goblins with a better condition

I wondered if the IFCC's stake in all this was similar to Red Cloak's. Maybe they want to use the gate themselves to threaten the gods and show the cooperation of fiends does bring results. But I question, is V a high enough level arcane sorcerer for the ritual if they control her, and where do they get the divine one? Bluffing Durkon? Sabine? Infusing V with a divine caster?

[Chess Tyrant]

Redcloak was only mid-level when he first met Xykon (couldn't cast Heal) so it's perfectly possible that V, at level 15+, is strong enough to perform the arcane half of the ritual.

Also worth considering that V's soul might be spliced onto the soul of a divine spellcaster/someone else the IFCC directly controls, but there's no real need to do this - they could use a different arcane spellcaster and be just as well off. So if the ritual can be cast by Soul Splices, they don't need V for it.

[Roland Itiative]

The problem with that is that the ritual does not give control of the Gate to the casters. It doesn't matter who casts the spell, the power goes all straight to the Dark One. So the IFCC can't quite make use of the ritual, unless they're allied with the Dark One. Plus, considering the ritual is from the teleportation school, V would be unable to cast it on his own anyway.

But that's all assuming the IFCC knows about the ritual and how it works. They're more likely to "know" the same information Xykon does: that the ritual gives the caster direct control of the Snarl. In this case, having V on their pocket would seem like a helpful asset, only to blow on their faces when the truth is revealed.

[Rorrik]

The problem with that is that the ritual does not give control of the Gate to the casters. It doesn't matter who casts the spell, the power goes all straight to the Dark One. So the IFCC can't quite make use of the ritual, unless they're allied with the Dark One. Plus, considering the ritual is from the teleportation school, V would be unable to cast it on his own anyway.

But that's all assuming the IFCC knows about the ritual and how it works. They're more likely to "know" the same information Xykon does: that the ritual gives the caster direct control of the Snarl. In this case, having V on their pocket would seem like a helpful asset, only to blow on their faces when the truth is revealed.

Right, excellent point, I had omitted that the Dark One was the only one who could control it from my memory. Perhaps the IFCC doesn't know how it works exactly or is working on a similar ritual of their own?

[zimmerwald1915]

The Dark One's Ritual isn't the only potential ritual.

SoD:

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The Ritual wasn't something The Dark One picked up somewhere, or was taught. It was something he invented. Which implies that a sufficiently knowledgable and powerful being could invent their own ritual that does something different.

[Heksefatter]

The problem with that is that the ritual does not give control of the Gate to the casters. It doesn't matter who casts the spell, the power goes all straight to the Dark One. So the IFCC can't quite make use of the ritual, unless they're allied with the Dark One. Plus, considering the ritual is from the teleportation school, V would be unable to cast it on his own anyway.

But that's all assuming the IFCC knows about the ritual and how it works. They're more likely to "know" the same information Xykon does: that the ritual gives the caster direct control of the Snarl. In this case, having V on their pocket would seem like a helpful asset, only to blow on their faces when the truth is revealed.

Personally, my guess would be that the IFCC is better informed than Xykon. They are big shots enough to be able to hold personal meetings with the gods (as seen by the case of Tiamat), so somehow I can't imagine them being as duped as Xykon is.

It is perfectly possible that they don't know everything about the ritual, but somehow I imagine them as knowing enough for their own purposes. Maybe they know something specific about the Snarl. Maybe they plan to affect the ritual as it is being performed - I imagine that they could seize control of V at a highly opportune moment. Or perhaps they want to make sure that the Snarl is used to destroy the gods, somehow, by letting the Snarl loose as the Dark One teleports the gate to one of the planes of the gods.

[Rorrik]

The Dark One's Ritual isn't the only potential ritual.

Right, the IFCC are enormous shots, I could see them making their own ritual or, as Heks said, altering the ritual through V.

[Kish]

Still the problem of it being in one of Vaarsuvius' barred schools.

They could get around that by soul splicing him/her again, but if that would work, I wonder why they'd need him/her. There is no shortage of evil and ambitious people; they could use a first-level wizard (...or commoner! or Kubota-like aristocrat!) soul spliced to Ganonron. For that matter, if they couldn't use Qarr directly, they could certainly use Nale.

So I doubt performing something similar to the Dark One's ritual is what they want Vaarsuvius for.

[Roland Itiative]

Personally, my guess would be that the IFCC is better informed than Xykon. They are big shots enough to be able to hold personal meetings with the gods (as seen by the case of Tiamat), so somehow I can't imagine them being as duped as Xykon is.

It is perfectly possible that they don't know everything about the ritual, but somehow I imagine them as knowing enough for their own purposes. Maybe they know something specific about the Snarl. Maybe they plan to affect the ritual as it is being performed - I imagine that they could seize control of V at a highly opportune moment. Or perhaps they want to make sure that the Snarl is used to destroy the gods, somehow, by letting the Snarl loose as the Dark One teleports the gate to one of the planes of the gods.

However, the kind of information we're talking about is not something the gods as a whole know. It's a piece of info only the bearer of the Crimson Mantle and the Dark One (and anyone the bearer of the cloak decides to share it with, those being, as far as we know, Tsukiko and Right-Eye) know. The gods are not omniscient, and neither are the fiends. Unless someone who knows that info shares it with them (a possibility, if Tsukiko's soul is allowed to go freely into the afterlife), they're coincidentally scrying on RC as he talks about it with someone else (not really likely, and it would be a bad move, storytelling-wise), or they decide to try and extract the information straight from RC's mind (something we'd know about, had it happened), the info is still an utmost secret.

Now, Xykon's plan to use the ritual to make the Snarl his pet, while also a secret, is much more well-known. Even people who do not know exactly what he wants with the Gates (like the Order) know he'll try to use them for his own gain. And this info is pretty much common knowledge. The IFCC, as well as Nale and even Tarquin, may just think that "if Xykon will be able to conquer the world by controlling a Gate, so can I", and just start from there. All blissfully unaware that Xykon will not be able to conquer the world by controlling a Gate, and is just being played for a fool.

[Heksefatter]

However, the kind of information we're talking about is not something the gods as a whole know. It's a piece of info only the bearer of the Crimson Mantle and the Dark One (and anyone the bearer of the cloak decides to share it with, those being, as far as we know, Tsukiko and Right-Eye) know. The gods are not omniscient, and neither are the fiends. Unless someone who knows that info shares it with them (a possibility, if Tsukiko's soul is allowed to go freely into the afterlife), they're coincidentally scrying on RC as he talks about it with someone else (not really likely, and it would be a bad move, storytelling-wise), or they decide to try and extract the information straight from RC's mind (something we'd know about, had it happened), the info is still an utmost secret.

Now, Xykon's plan to use the ritual to make the Snarl his pet, while also a secret, is much more well-known. Even people who do not know exactly what he wants with the Gates (like the Order) know he'll try to use them for his own gain. And this info is pretty much common knowledge. The IFCC, as well as Nale and even Tarquin, may just think that "if Xykon will be able to conquer the world by controlling a Gate, so can I", and just start from there. All blissfully unaware that Xykon will not be able to conquer the world by controlling a Gate, and is just being played for a fool.

It's possible. I don't rule it out. But look at it this way: The IFCC knows about the snarl, the Dark One and the ritual. They can likely figure out that the Dark One is not just playing into the hands of Xykon. They may even know the Dark One well enough to guess what he will do with the information available to him.

In reality, Redcloak's scam isn't that hard to look through, if you think about it. Xykon was duped - at least until recently - but he doesn't have much in the way of subtlety. However, it is unlikely that the Bearer of the Crimson Mantle, as the high priest of the Dark One, would support Xykon in a quest that only benefitted Xykon.

Furthermore, if the IFCC know about the snarl itself, they also likely know that the snarl cannot possibly be controlled, since it is a being of pure chaos which has explicitly been described as impossible to control.

I guess that a lot of it boils down to that I can't believe that three highly intelligent master manipulators who are likely rather well informed (if not fully so) can be fooled by Redcloak's scam, which isn't that subtle.

[Roland Itiative]

The thing is, the IFCC is, apparently not so well-informed on the subject. They were completely out of the picture until Sabine informed them of what Nale had learned in Azure City. And what Nale learned in Azure City was only a very small portion of the truth.

And RC's plan is not so easy to pick apart, when you look at things from the limited perspective of the characters inside the story. He's helping Xykon rule the world, so the goblins would have a better standing as long as they follow RC, and RC follows Xykon. It looks like a rather stupid plan, considering Xykon likes destroying things "for the lulz" when bored, but it's a plan nonetheless. And it's working, look at what they accomplished already: a goblinoid city-state acknowledge by various neighboring communities as a legitimate country. That's very much in-line with what the Dark One wants.

[with an e]

1. If the IFCC knows the ritual, then they know it doesn't control the Snarl, because Tsukiko was able to figure out that it couldn't be used to control the Snarl by reading half of it. Thus, they know they have to make their own ritual.

2. If the IFCC doesn't know the ritual, then
a. They plan to get it from Xykon/RC, in which case they would have to find it, meaning if they were to succeed in casting it, then at some point they would have to know that the knowledge of the divine half is in the crimson mantle and thus not likely to be obtainable.

b. They don't plan to get it from Xykon/RC, in which case what RC's ritual does is irrelevant to them.

Thus, I don't see the IFCC casting the Dark One's ritual as a plausible scenario.