Garryl's Freeform Fire Emblem Rules

[flabort]

Caught a problem in the laguz rules:
There is a T3 talent just for Laguz, right? Rampage?
But the second promotion in the Laguz entry doesn't have any cost for 3 talents.

[Garryl]

Thanks for noticing that. It's been corrected.

More changes to Laguz today. Just about entirely buffs, to boot. Reduced base point cost, increased stat caps, no cost for the first strike (although only 1 strike allowed now), and reduced growth point cost for TP generation.

Also, a work in progress of Chants (Galdrar in the games) is up. Not sure exactly how it'll work. Probably some combination of level-based and rank-based or something, instead of needing to have an item. You'll have to unequip your weapon to use Chants, though.

[Water_and_Wind]

Modified the character creation spreadsheet to reflect the new Laguz rules.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1262287/FE/W...0of%20War.xlsx

[flabort]

So a Flying (Winged) chassis + an Insect (Carapace) Laguz could have a battlesprite like this:

Yeah, poor quality, sorry, I'm far from the best, especially with full-custom, but you get the idea?

Hmm, what tiers do you think the following talents might be:

Cast from Hitpoints
You may draw upon your body, and decrease your current HP by 10% it's maximum instead of using charges from your equipped weapon. When you do so, you also add the HP lost to your Mag stat for that attack. When <5 charges and >50% HP, Automatic on attack. When >5 charges or <50% HP, command.

Bounding Attack
If you have a way to move after combat, you gain one move for each hit you make during combat (1 hit for 1 move with Canto, 2 hits for 1 move with spring attack). Automatic.

Blurred Battle
Crits allow you to attack again after the next attack made that combat, rather than multiplying your damage. Each attack has it's own chance of triggering skills and talents. You cannot crit again with a(n) attack(s) gained through Blurred Battle, or gained with skills or talents triggered by the attack(s) gained through Blurred Battle, though. Automatic.

Trample
If you can move again after combat, you may pass through the space occupied by the enemy who you attacked, at no additional movement cost, but cannot end your move in it's space. Automatic.

Whirlwind
If you move at least 1 space after combat, you may initiate battle with another target (it cannot be one you attacked before during this round) once during your turn, consuming all remaining movement. You cannot gain additional movement that round after using this ability. Each combat and attack has it's own chance of triggering skills and abilities. Command.

My guess would be 1-1-2-2-3, in that order.... Four are kind of intended to be a set, for a single character archetype, one is intended for a different archetype.

[Geno9999]

Now that you helped me, let me help you.
Chant Recovery's effect of healing Mag + Target's Max HP is redundant. It probably should be "Recover's Target HP to full", unless you are going to add some sort of Over-heal effect.
Looking at Crafting Materials, do breaking down an item give you multiple materials? Because I noticed that Silver Weapons can give Silver Scraps and Alchemical Samples. Also, I don't see any thing that can be gained from breaking down Dark or Light tomes. Do they give you Anima Essence, or are they under "Energy" tomes?

[Water_and_Wind]

The same Mag+Target's max HP is also present for the staff that heals all HP. I believe this wording is due to talents like Autocoagulate and Aromatic Poultices which do 1/2 and 1/4 healing respectively.

Dark and Light are energy tomes. I don't remember where this is written, but I'm sure of it.

[Garryl]

Exactly. Also for Diehard, which can let you live far enough into negative HP that healing only your max HP might not bring you to full.

I don't think that I ever explicitly say anywhere that Light and Dark are "energy tomes", although that is what I meant. And while everyone knows that Fire/Thunder/Wind are the anima tomes, I should probably state that explicitly somewhere.

Not bad, flabort. I think the wings need a little more definition. They're just too diaphanous, almost invisible.
Yeah, those talents look alright, except for Blurred Battle, which seems like a strict nerf unless you're specifically comboing it with something.

[flabort]

Not bad, flabort. I think the wings need a little more definition. They're just too diaphanous, almost invisible.
Yeah, those talents look alright, except for Blurred Battle, which seems like a strict nerf unless you're specifically comboing it with something.

Thanks. I tried to make them look blurred, like rapidly vibrating wings and so they became.... Maybe I should try verticle lines, and flesh out the outlines.

Thanks again. Well, the talent is designed to be combo'd, and could go with virtually any "on hit" or "on attack" talent. Maybe it would be either a T1, or the fact that you can't crit on a crit-created attack could be removed to make it T2?

[Water_and_Wind]

Cast from hitpoints is so broken... long range tome/warp staff/hammerne abuse for starters. T3 is the lowest tier I would give it, with a no-Hammerne clause.

[Garryl]

@WaW: Good point. I hadn't thought of that.

Pricing is up for axes, lances, swords, items, and skills. Also, bands are up. All of them. I hope you appreciate the effort I spent to name them all.

Siege weapons (ballistae, catapults, etc.). Better descriptions for the various weapons. Some new "training tomes" for the various types of magic. And a couple more skills.

The references to "synergy" in the new weapon descriptions currently don't mean anything, but I'm thinking of making new weapons gained at promotion cost less (5 gp instead of 10) if you already had a synergy weapon to what you are taking (from before the promotion). Thoughts?

[Illven]

@WaW: Good point. I hadn't thought of that.

Pricing is up for axes, lances, swords, items, and skills. Also, bands are up. All of them. I hope you appreciate the effort I spent to name them all.

Siege weapons (ballistae, catapults, etc.). Better descriptions for the various weapons. Some new "training tomes" for the various types of magic. And a couple more skills.

The references to "synergy" in the new weapon descriptions currently don't mean anything, but I'm thinking of making new weapons gained at promotion cost less (5 gp instead of 10) if you already had a synergy weapon to what you are taking (from before the promotion). Thoughts?

For the siege weapons it mentions that they are physical weapons and thus use strength to determine damage, and enemy defense to reduce the damage. But then it says under every siege weapon that strength is not used to influence damage. I know what you mean, it just seems clumsy wording.

Also I really like the idea of splash damage siege. (I used it for the legendary anima tome)

Also wow The knight band is powerful.


Question Will we have all the bands, or get to choose between some of them?

[flabort]

........ I am curious. How would one build a Laguz, with two distinct transformations, and two separate gauges? Obviously a talent would be needed, and the talent would demand a second large investment into transformation...

Something along these lines:

Spoiler

Show

Dual Transformation (T1)
You get an extra, separate transformation gauge, with it's own transformation type; You may transform into each transformation when it's own gauge exceeds 30, but may only have one active transformation at a time. While one transformation is active, the other gauge still increases as if you were not transformed. You must buy separate values for TP gain and loss over time for each gauge. You may pick a different strike for each transformation, but may only use the strike associated with a transformation when in that transformation, unless it can be used when not transformed - in which case, you still cannot use it while in your other transformation.

I would use it to make a Laguz with both Lunar and Solar breaths, and it could maybe be taken more than once, to get three strikes, or whatnot. Justified, because you still only have so many GP and BP to spend on TP advancement, so when this is taken, you'll have to split it up between the two, meaning you only transform at half the rate per transformation, but with two, that's twice as many, meaning an equal amount again. Oh, yes, and paying for that extra strike .

Also, this looks better than it used to now, doesn't it:

[Garryl]

For the siege weapons it mentions that they are physical weapons and thus use strength to determine damage, and enemy defense to reduce the damage. But then it says under every siege weapon that strength is not used to influence damage. I know what you mean, it just seems clumsy wording.

Also I really like the idea of splash damage siege. (I used it for the legendary anima tome)

Siege weapons are one part copy/paste, one part consistent wording, and one part used to be part of bows. The splash damage is lifted straight out of how catapults worked in Radiant Dawn, although the numbers are tweaked.

Also wow The knight band is powerful.


Question Will we have all the bands, or get to choose between some of them?

You mean the Knight Ward with +2 Def. +2 Res, +30% Spd? Yeah, it's an outlier. I just copied the stats directly from the games.

I need to find some more names. Knight Ward, Knight Band, Knight Ring, too many knights.

Bands may or may not show up, depending on the game. They're like any other obscure item in that regard.

........ I am curious. How would one build a Laguz, with two distinct transformations, and two separate gauges? Obviously a talent would be needed, and the talent would demand a second large investment into transformation...

Something along these lines:

Spoiler

Show

Dual Transformation (T1)
You get an extra, separate transformation gauge, with it's own transformation type; You may transform into each transformation when it's own gauge exceeds 30, but may only have one active transformation at a time. While one transformation is active, the other gauge still increases as if you were not transformed. You must buy separate values for TP gain and loss over time for each gauge. You may pick a different strike for each transformation, but may only use the strike associated with a transformation when in that transformation, unless it can be used when not transformed - in which case, you still cannot use it while in your other transformation.

I would use it to make a Laguz with both Lunar and Solar breaths, and it could maybe be taken more than once, to get three strikes, or whatnot. Justified, because you still only have so many GP and BP to spend on TP advancement, so when this is taken, you'll have to split it up between the two, meaning you only transform at half the rate per transformation, but with two, that's twice as many, meaning an equal amount again. Oh, yes, and paying for that extra strike .

Moonkin, Boomkin, Doomkin, or OoMkin?

Also, this looks better than it used to now, doesn't it:

Yes, that does look good.

[Penguinator]

I would use it to make a Laguz with both Lunar and Solar breaths, and it could maybe be taken more than once, to get three strikes, or whatnot. Justified, because you still only have so many GP and BP to spend on TP advancement, so when this is taken, you'll have to split it up between the two, meaning you only transform at half the rate per transformation, but with two, that's twice as many, meaning an equal amount again. Oh, yes, and paying for that extra strike .

Hah... I was thinking the exact same thing. Only, I was hoping that I could take it as a Tier 2 talent upon promotion and keep the same gauge. Would that be possible, Garryl?

[Dr.Orpheus]

Come on no stilettos those are completely necessary for a rouge to hurt them heavy armored dudes. I don't want to waste a silver dagger or kard on a general that is of a much lower level just because of his high def.

[Penguinator]

...I can't think of anybody who built a character that uses only daggers.

Wait... maybe Lekura. But she's not particularly built for killing things.

[Garryl]

Daggers unfortunately fill a small niche (low cost backup weapons, mostly for otherwise support characters like dancers). If you've already paid for advanced weapons, you're more likely to pick up swords, axes, or lances (or whips, or one of the magics, or...). Archers can just grab unarmed, since they already have the Con for it and don't really need the easier ranged options. I'd like to find a bit of a better role for daggers to fill, if possible. Easy access to 1-2 range doesn't cut it when magic does it just as well or better. Any ideas?

A 1st draft of crafting is up. Values are approximations based on what the few items I've already priced cost. I'll do the other items later on once I've priced them. Reforging will come at a later date once I work out the mechanics (I've already gone through a couple of options without it feeling right).

[flabort]

Oh. I'm sorry to ask, but what's the progress on terrains? Specifically, pillars (right now). I know you have various move types (and talents) that will each have their own costs for movement on each land (A staple in Forum Emblem), that will be harder, but when you're planning, this is one of the things to consider.

Meanwhile, I am so happy to see that there are crafting rules up. I will devour them instantly. (I mean, read them)

[Garryl]

Terrain (and conditions) are all on my computer... somewhere. I just need to find them and format them properly. Terrain is nothing special (essentially the same as TheSummoner's rules, plus a couple of new types that won't show up for a while), although I do plan to add more. Pillars are currently lumped under the same stats as forests. I'll see if I can find them tomorrow.

Oh, and crafting, there's more I forgot to mention. You give an (NPC) crafter the materials, and he/she gives you back the finished product. No muss, no fuss. Except that the crafter needs to know the "recipe". The more common weapons (slim, bronze, iron, steel, E/D thrown, E/D tomes, basic staves/rods, etc.) should basically be known automatically from the start, although rarer, more powerful, and more obscure things will require finding the right recipe scroll first (which generally teaches a whole slew of related recipes, like all Arc-tomes, or all reaver weapons, etc.), or finding a crafter that already knows how to make them, (depending on the game you're playing). Reforging is the process of taking an existing weapon and adding new abilities to it. For instance, weighting it might add might and weight, but reduce hit, or sharpening it might increase the crit chance. Not all reforging recipes are applicable to all weapons. Some might add common weapon properties, like effectiveness, triangle reversal, or even double attack. However, a weapon can only be reforged once, and once it has been reforged, its rank increases by 1 (hence why weapon ranks go up to SS even though I'm only throwing S-rank weapons your way). Existing weapons and items can also be broken down, which is basically like selling them, except that you get materials instead of cash. You get back roughly half the materials used to make the item in the first place, reduced for items with lower than maximum durability. Characters with the Salvage talent automatically break down their weapons when they break (resulting in only 1-2 scraps since the thing is almost broken, similar to getting less money when you sell a low durability weapon). The Corrosion skill works similarly, except that it breaks down the enemy's weapon. I think that's about it. Oh, yeah. You can always use more powerful scraps and essences in place of weaker ones (like silver in place of steel, if you run out of steel scraps but have a few extra silvers). The different types of essences can also be converted across to each other if you need more of one than another, although it's not perfectly efficient.

[Dr.Orpheus]

Daggers unfortunately fill a small niche (low cost backup weapons, mostly for otherwise support characters like dancers). If you've already paid for advanced weapons, you're more likely to pick up swords, axes, or lances (or whips, or one of the magics, or...). Archers can just grab unarmed, since they already have the Con for it and don't really need the easier ranged options. I'd like to find a bit of a better role for daggers to fill, if possible. Easy access to 1-2 range doesn't cut it when magic does it just as well or better. Any ideas?

I got an idea daggers are easy to conceal in a cloak or other similar clothing so it would make you appear unarmed making you appear as the weakest target. Depending on the nature of your opponent they may want to attack you more or less then armed allies. Another option would be to make it mandatory to be dagger proficient in order to take the thievery talent, despite how prejudiced it is against all those rouges. Another is the increase the max possible attacks with daggers for those with the spd.

[Garryl]

Terrain is up.

[Penguinator]

Chant (Work in progress)

Spoiler

Show

Chanters work magic through their songs, producing a variety of unusual effects. Chanters are all but defenseless, unable to attack their enemies.
Chants are not weapons. They cannot be used to attack. They can be used to counterattack as Range 1 physical weapons, but this does not consume durability.
Chants are not involved in any weapon triangles.

To do: Do I want this like standard dances/whatnot, or learned by level and rank, or learned by rank and item, or what?

{table=head]Weapon Name |Rank |Range |Mgt |Hit |Crit |Wgt |Durability |Value |Triangle Type |Special
Vigor |E |1 |0 |100 |0 |1 |-- | |Chant |Usable while transformed. Grants ally an extra turn. 10 xp.
Bliss |D |1 |0 |100 |0 |1 | | |Chant |Usable while transformed. Ally's Hit increases by 10 for 1 turn. 12 xp.
Sorrow |D |1-2 |0 |100 |0 |1 | | |Chant |Usable while transformed. Reduces target's Hit by 10 for 1 turn. Cannot be countered. 12 xp.
Balance |C |1 |0 |100 |0 |1 | | |Chant |Usable while transformed. Splits damage taken evenly between self and ally for 1 turn. If multiple allies are affected, damage is split between all of them. 15 xp.
Requiem |C |1-2 |0 |100 |0 |4 | | |Chant |Usable while transformed. Performs a magical attack against target Spirit. Might 10, Hit 100, Crit 0. Has no effect against non-Spirits.
Dirge |B |1-2 |0 |50 |0 |1 | | |Chant |Usable while transformed. May cause Panic. Cannot be countered. 20 xp.
Valor |B |1 |0 |100 |0 |1 | | |Chant |Usable while transformed. Grants target 30 TP. 22 xp.
Recovery |A |1 |0 |100 |0 |1 | | |Chant |Usable while transformed. Heals Mag + target's max HP to target. 25 xp.[/table]

I'm very interested in chants, I think I'll play a character who has them somewhere down the line. I like the idea of learning by item, but that could be frustrating, especially if more than one player on a team has chant capabilities. I'd like to get them away from items that grant the uses, to keep them totally separate from Dances. So learning by Level/Rank seems the most original and fair.

[Garryl]

Sounds good. Any suggestions on the levels? There will be another S rank chant also available, and possibly an SS rank one if I can't think of a good way to get reforging to go together with chants.

Oh, and conditions are up. Also, a few tweaks to the terrain lists.

[Penguinator]

Well, I just realized the fact that a character could feasibly pick up chants upon promotion to third tier, so they would have to fit into 20 levels.

Vigor would come upon the ability to use chants, obviously. Maybe give Bliss right away if a character is only using chants.
Bliss and Sorrow seem like they should come at the same time, since they're basically inverses of each other. I'm thinking Level 4 right now, but that could change.
Balance at level 7.
Requiem at level 10. It gives the chance to attack, and while not useful against everything, level 10 just seems fair.
Dirge at level 12. (I'm not sure what panic does)
Valor at level 15. (It's pretty powerful if you've got Laguz allies)
Recovery at level 18.
And an S rank at level 20, if it's supposed to be easily accessed.
I think the SS rank should probably be an item, rather than a level, actually.

Oh, and it's not as hard as it seems to train one of these characters when you consider bonus xp. (I'd forgotten about it, honestly)

[Garryl]

Consider each tier as an extra 20 levels (ie: 1-20, 21-40, and 41-60). Otherwise you have all these nice abilities and suddenly you lose them all when you promote, or something.

Panic is a condition, like a sort of weakened Berserk. I've added conditions in post 10, so take a look. Basically, someone who is panicked runs away, but starts attacking things randomly if he can't get away.

[hunt11]

I like how you modified Berserk. It always bugged me that characters suffering from berserk could move through your own units to attack the more vulnerable members of your party.

The discussion in the Weapons of War thread highlighted an issue that I had when I tried to create custom talents, trying to figure out what is balanced for each tier of abilities. It might be an idea to give a quick description for each tier saying just how powerful they are allowed to be.

[John Cribati]

Silence also (and obviously) prevents you from talking to people. As in no recruit or support conversations. I know this because I remember I had L'Arachel get silenced a turn before I was about to use her to recruit Rennac. Caught up to him, couldn't talk to him.

And then Rennac critted her to death.

[Penguinator]

Consider each tier as an extra 20 levels (ie: 1-20, 21-40, and 41-60). Otherwise you have all these nice abilities and suddenly you lose them all when you promote, or something.

The intention is that you keep the abilities when you promote. I don't know why you wouldn't.

My point was that a character could learn Chanting (much like learning swords or axes) upon promotion to third tier, and as such, would only have 20 levels to learn the chants.

[Kasanip]

I also like the Chants very much.

The intention is that you keep the abilities when you promote. I don't know why you wouldn't.

My point was that a character could learn Chanting (much like learning swords or axes) upon promotion to third tier, and as such, would only have 20 levels to learn the chants.

I think that if the Chants is related to weapon experience rank (E, D, C, B, A, S) then they become available like the Strike weapons improvement do.

It is also the same of characters who gain a different weapon type when promoting. Before they can use stronger weapons, they must gain the weapon experience.

I don't think Chants should be bonded to class level. Of course a character who receives chants at first promotion is not as good at chants as character who starts from beginning with chants.

[flabort]

When you promote to T3, and get a new weapon, it starts at D rank, rather than E. Just thought that might be relevant to this Chant discussion.