Pathfinder Grab Bag Competition Chat Thread

[Midwoka]

Ooooh.

Does anyone know if Midwoka is feeling better, by the by?

I was already un-sick by the 8th, when I posted about having been sick. I'm very over it =)

For this contest, though, I just haven't been too inspired... Things I think up keep looking better as more generic and non-primeval, so they kinda lose the theme. Or for monsters, they just end up being an ooze or a slight variation on dire animals.

[ErrantX]

Alright.

If I extend November's contest until December 7th, can I get three promises for submitted entries?

Because otherwise I'm going to have to label this month's contest a failure and just truck on to next month hoping for better turn out. I really don't want to do this, but it seems I have little other choice and it's just bad form that this contest needs to be extended every month because of lack of interest and/or lack of entries.

I wasn't really motivated with this one, to be honest. I'll try to come up with something if you want to extend it til the 7th though!

-X

[Tanuki Tales]

I wasn't really motivated with this one, to be honest. I'll try to come up with something if you want to extend it til the 7th though!

-X

I know it's probably the weakest theme so far, but it felt timely and poignant for the month.

If you can promise an entry, I'll extend it. One entry is better than none.

For future reference, before the first half of the month is out, if a few of you guys don't feel like the theme I picked will motivate you to enter, please let me know. I'd rather pitch a new theme and extend the contest than have it fall flat.

[Tanuki Tales]

Oh, and before I totally forget, here's the sneak peak at next month's theme:

Have a Holly, Jolly Brewmas!

[ErrantX]

I know it's probably the weakest theme so far, but it felt timely and poignant for the month.

If you can promise an entry, I'll extend it. One entry is better than none.

For future reference, before the first half of the month is out, if a few of you guys don't feel like the theme I picked will motivate you to enter, please let me know. I'd rather pitch a new theme and extend the contest than have it fall flat.

Gotcha, I'll make an effort on both counts.

-X

[tallonRook]

Heh, I finally plucked up the courage to post an entry to this contest. My class is done except for the one class feature that gives you almost everything, so not really. It's just here so I don't lose the courage to post the rest of the class later.
The Shaman's intended to be the sorcerer/oracle to the druid class, the Totem similar to the bloodline/mystery. I realize there is a set of similar archetypes for the druid class (which I drew some inspiration from) and bizarrely a class with an identical name and similar concept (spontaneous druid) in Kobold Quarterly that I did not know about when I came up with the idea for the class some months ago. I'll hopefully get the first few totems done by tonight, with the rest sprinkling in up until the deadline.
If it isn't obvious, Template Bond is not actually supposed to be an option. It's just a placeholder/template. I would love some critique after the first few totems bonds are in.

[Tanuki Tales]

Heh, I finally plucked up the courage to post an entry to this contest. My class is done except for the one class feature that gives you almost everything, so not really. It's just here so I don't lose the courage to post the rest of the class later.
The Shaman's intended to be the sorcerer/oracle to the druid class, the Totem similar to the bloodline/mystery. I realize there is a set of similar archetypes for the druid class (which I drew some inspiration from) and bizarrely a class with an identical name and similar concept (spontaneous druid) in Kobold Quarterly that I did not know about when I came up with the idea for the class some months ago. I'll hopefully get the first few totems done by tonight, with the rest sprinkling in up until the deadline.
If it isn't obvious, Template Bond is not actually supposed to be an option. It's just a placeholder/template. I would love some critique after the first few totems bonds are in.

Always glad to see a new face here.

I'll see if I can get you a rundown before the day is out.

[Tanuki Tales]

So, the new contest is up.

Sorry for not getting a run-down yet, I've been indisposed and I'm not sure when I'll have enough free time to give an honest critique.

[Tanuki Tales]

Hey, I have time for rundowns! Awesome!

Anyways, let's start off with the Quirksteed!

I see no grammar concerns, so right on to my other comments:

• So they're some kind of mutated off-shoot of horses? Or are they just an example of convergent evolution or something similar?
• Since in Pathfinder, Dire Animals are the primeval ancestor of non-dire animals, shouldn't the Quirksteed be Huge size category, not Large?
• All and all, this isn't a CR 3 Aberration. It has too few HD, too few HP, too low an AC, possibly too low an attack bonus, and too low saves.
• Why does it have two claw attacks? And how long is it's tail?

Well, that's it for the Quirksteed and now on to the Shaman!


Let's start with the grammar and similar junk:

Fluff

• I think you meant "Clerics manipulate the power of the gods" not "Shamans manipulate the power of the gods".

And that's it really for grammar.

I don't actually have many comments for this class. The flavor is pretty nice and the mechanics are interesting. I just hope we'll see more Totems up before Friday. Good job!


Edit:

Oh and I finally updated the bit in the contest thread concerning the amount of votes. It now reflects the addition of the new trophies.

Also, if anyone is interested in when I will be updating the past entries archive, I do that every three contests. This means it'll get updated after voting ends for November's contest.


@Midwoka: Sorry for this being a late reply, but I'm glad you're feeling better!

[Tanuki Tales]

Well, I must say that the Monkey Atavist is quite the interesting entry and here's my rundown on it:

No real grammar things to note off a cursory glance, so moving on.

• You say that Atavists are the result of cursed men, so why is their type Fey?
• A bite attack is not a Special Attack.
• The fluff for these guys make it sound like they're generally loners, so why do they have the Swarming special attack?
• Where does the Favored Terrain come from?
• What does "You have no Money!" under Gear mean?
• Since you call these guys "Monkey Atavist", does that mean there are other animal flavors?
• Most creatures who get their HD from class levels have "As PCs" sections, do you intend to make one? Because I'm curious over what their base racials are.

Edit:

Oh, and before I forget, welcome to the competition!

[tallonRook]

Thanks! I have six totems up now, and they're probably the ones I'll be able to get finished before the deadline. I made one for each ability score, though if I ever made more they wouldn't be so constrained.

[Kane0]

Cheers for the rundown Troll Bräu.

1. They aren't actually related to horses or any other equines as far as evolution is concerned, though it may be possible. It's up to how the DM wants them to be really. I took the approach that they are the modern descendants of an equine creature (most likely horses or zebras) somehow aberrated (is that a word?) in the past, around primeval times. Wild magic, external interference, that sort of thing.

2. Because they are aberrations (and me not associating abberations with the 'normal' evolution path of animals and possibly magical beasts, if evolution is even a thing in PF), they aren't really dire animals, nor are they necessarily related to them. That said either could be possible because of point 1 above. I didn't want to make them too big as that would take away from the fact that they are comparatively less dangerous than most other aberrations, as well as being possible alternatives for mounts or cattle in aberration-heavy or out of the ordinary lands/campaigns.

3. True. CR dropped to 2. I was mainly concerned about the amount of attacks it could get off and the DC of its poison and stampede.

4. Three reasons: To make the stampede slashing damage, to up the damage dice of its hoof attacks and cause if the mental picture I had when making it (Herds of these running across large fields or light bushland mincing up everything they run over, then coming back around to 'graze' the churned up creatures that could not dodge them before scavengers arrive. Anything that tries to compete with them for this food is bitten or cut up by their clawed legs as they kick much like modern horses do).
It's tail wouldn't provide any reach or anything, it would be about 3-4' long tops. Think a not-quite-prehensile tentacle coated in poisonous slime where a tail belongs.

[Tanuki Tales]

Cheers for the rundown Troll Bräu.

Welcomes. I just wish I knew when you had completed the entry so I could have given it sooner.

1. They aren't actually related to horses or any other equines as far as evolution is concerned, though it may be possible. It's up to how the DM wants them to be really. I took the approach that they are the modern descendants of an equine creature (most likely horses or zebras) somehow aberrated (is that a word?) in the past, around primeval times. Wild magic, external interference, that sort of thing.

So maybe convergent evolution then? Like how both insects and birds developed wings or how sharks and dolphins have similar body shapes.

2. Because they are aberrations (and me not associating abberations with the 'normal' evolution path of animals and possibly magical beasts, if evolution is even a thing in PF), they aren't really dire animals, nor are they necessarily related to them. That said either could be possible because of point 1 above. I didn't want to make them too big as that would take away from the fact that they are comparatively less dangerous than most other aberrations, as well as being possible alternatives for mounts or cattle in aberration-heavy or out of the ordinary lands/campaigns.

What I meant was that Dire Animals are the prehistoric versions of regular animals and are always a size category larger. So an Aberration that ran in the same environment with ancient horses would be of comparable size to said horses.

And to be honest, huge size category does not a dangerous aberration make. It's the relatively human competitive Intelligence score and the body horror supernatural abilities they tend to have.

3. True. CR dropped to 2. I was mainly concerned about the amount of attacks it could get off and the DC of its poison and stampede.

Still a little under that CR's average numbers. Maybe give it some weird Aberration-y attack or defense? Like slick skin that lessens damage from piercing and bludgeoning damage or a howl that frightens or something?

4. Three reasons: To make the stampede slashing damage, to up the damage dice of its hoof attacks and cause if the mental picture I had when making it (Herds of these running across large fields or light bushland mincing up everything they run over, then coming back around to 'graze' the churned up creatures that could not dodge them before scavengers arrive. Anything that tries to compete with them for this food is bitten or cut up by their clawed legs as they kick much like modern horses do).

Well...do they have hooves or paws with claws? Because if you want their hoof attacks to do slashing damage, just give them a special attack that says so and call it "Serrated Hooves" or something.

Awesome mental image though.

It's tail wouldn't provide any reach or anything, it would be about 3-4' long tops. Think a not-quite-prehensile tentacle coated in poisonous slime where a tail belongs.

So its tail is like a symbiotic terrestrial anemone or an organ that's like that?

[Tanuki Tales]

The competition is closed and the voting thread is up folks!

Please go vote for last month's competition and don't forget that this month's still has plenty of time left!

[4th number]

Milo v3: The plural of nemesis is "nemeses."

[Tanuki Tales]

Milo v3: The plural of nemesis is "nemeses."

Or nemesi.

And always happy to see a new face. =D

[4th number]

Or nemesi.

And always happy to see a new face. =D

Thanks, I'm thinking of working something up for this month.

EDIT: It stretches the contest guidelines a bit, but I love an excuse to make wizened old badasses.

EDIT2: It might be passable now with some polish, but I need to swap out some of the dull stuff for neat signature abilities.

[4th number]

If anyone's got comments on my entry, I'd appreciate them. It's my first PrC.

I think it needs something minor and flavorful at 1st level, and major and flavorful at 3rd and/or 4th. Anyone have any input?

[Tanuki Tales]

Well, let me give an improtu rundown.

• Technically it's not in with the theme in the strictest sense, but the pun on "winter of your life" gets massive approval from me.
• Why are Quite Spry, Remarkably Spry and Shockingly Spry so limiting?
• My Old Friend is boring as an ability honestly. Something I'm learning as I become more seasoned as a brewer is that abilities that actually do things are more fun than just static number boosts.
• New Tricks is kind of weak. I'd suggest letting those feats be floating feats that can be re-selected every day and maybe changed as an immediate action 1/day.
• One Last Fight is neat as a capstone, but is it really feasible? It comes online at level 13 at the earliest, a point where both Raise Dead and Resurrection are on table. Unless they were facing a TPK, it would almost never be a good idea to use this ability. That and Diehard is honestly a gods awful feat.
• Overall, I really like this PrC and will enjoy seeing how you polish it up.

Edit:

Also, please get the permission of the artist that art is from. Otherwise, we can get in trouble.

Edit Edit:

Oh and vote if you can, please.

[4th number]

Well, let me give an improtu rundown.

• Technically it's not in with the theme in the strictest sense, but the pun on "winter of your life" gets massive approval from me.
• Why are Quite Spry, Remarkably Spry and Shockingly Spry so limiting?
• My Old Friend is boring as an ability honestly. Something I'm learning as I become more seasoned as a brewer is that abilities that actually do things are more fun than just static number boosts.
• New Tricks is kind of weak. I'd suggest letting those feats be floating feats that can be re-selected every day and maybe changed as an immediate action 1/day.
• One Last Fight is neat as a capstone, but is it really feasible? It comes online at level 13 at the earliest, a point where both Raise Dead and Resurrection are on table. Unless they were facing a TPK, it would almost never be a good idea to use this ability. That and Diehard is honestly a gods awful feat.
• Overall, I really like this PrC and will enjoy seeing how you polish it up.

Edit:

Also, please get the permission of the artist that art is from. Otherwise, we can get in trouble.

I'll defend the "Spry" series as-is-- they're soley to provide what amount to large ability score increases to make martial old folks viable. A Venerable character taking 5 levels of the class gets +3 to each mental stat compensated by a -6 to one physical stat of their choice. If the character actually saw play before this class, they will see +12 over 5 levels, +5 of which hits at the first level. It's limited, but it's aimed at the big penalties that the character suffered to quality.

You're right that flat numbers are generally dull-- I need some good weapon tricks for that ability.

I'll have to find some better flavor for "pick some feats." This section will improve.

For the capstone, I reckon that the player of an Old or Venerable character is looking for something different to finish them up. The best goal for One Last Fight is to make sure that when it's used, it creates an awesome story.

Most generally, I'm worried about this being a decent mechanical choice. Is it reasonable for someone to build a character around this? Will it be able to kill level-appropriate things relative to a pure fighter, barbarian, or rogue?

I think it might need bonus damage, no?

[Tanuki Tales]

I'll defend the "Spry" series as-is-- they're soley to provide what amount to large ability score increases to make martial old folks viable. A Venerable character taking 5 levels of the class gets +3 to each mental stat compensated by a -6 to one physical stat of their choice. If the character actually saw play before this class, they will see +12 over 5 levels, +5 of which hits at the first level. It's limited, but it's aimed at the big penalties that the character suffered to quality.

The issue is that it's a hidden tax on entering this class. Why would they roll up a Venerable or Old character if they're not even mechanically going to be eventually compensated for their initial investment?

For the capstone, I reckon that the player of an Old or Venerable character is looking for something different to finish them up. The best goal for One Last Fight is to make sure that when it's used, it creates an awesome story.

This is true. But the issue is that it permanently kills off the character, when they could still get many years of adventuring out of themselves still with just the proper spell being cast.

Now if One Last Fight just keyed off when the character is classified as dead and they can't be prevented from dying once the class feature activates, it'd be better.

Most generally, I'm worried about this being a decent mechanical choice. Is it reasonable for someone to build a character around this? Will it be able to kill level-appropriate things relative to a pure fighter, barbarian, or rogue?

Honestly, I don't know if I'd take levels in this PrC except for the novelty factor. It's not mechanically a good enough choice yet.

I think it might need bonus damage, no?

Or an ability that forces some concept of old age onto foes.

[4th number]

Big pile of changes.

1. added 2 smaller abilities at 1st level along with the ability restorations
   
   
2. made My Old Friend (at 2nd level) fun and varied, and added advancement at 4th and 5th. Looking for input on balance of the options.
   
   
3. added Veteran's Insight at 3rd and 5th for some good ol' combat bonuses
   
   
4. gave out a wicked debuff with Instant Wisdom, balanced (hopefully) by having it take a full round.
   
   
5. made a lot of stuff land on the last level. Gave a smaller boost to the third penalized ability score. Planning a retooling of One Last Fight.

What do you think of the progression? Are any levels too light?

[Tanuki Tales]

Time for another rundown on the Winter Warrior!

• How does Second Skin interact with the Armor Training class feature of the Fighter and similar abilities?
• I admit that I don't see the Aid Another action used much in any game I've played, but why is the bonus only increased by +1 instead of +2 for creatures two or more age categories younger?
• The only issue I see with My Old Friend is the fact that this is a Pathfinder only competition and Tome of Battle and maneuvers by extension are Dungeons and Dragons material.
• How does Veteran's Insight interact with other abilities that add Wisdom or Intelligence to attack rolls.
• Instant Wisdom should give a save, not just be a combat maneuver. Also, why does it apply to Outsiders (who are generally ageless), but not Dragons, Oozes, Plants or Vermin?
• Only the Fifth level is light, at least until you've come up with a new capstone.

And that's all I have to say at the moment. Hopefully I'll be able to give a rundown on other entries soon.

Also, anyone who has not yet voted, please do so.

[Midwoka]

I took a while to vote because I didn't want my history with horses to affect my choices. It still feels wrong giving the Quirksteed my 1st place vote...

[Tanuki Tales]

I took a while to vote because I didn't want my history with horses to affect my choices. It still feels wrong giving the Quirksteed my 1st place vote...

To be honest, all three entries could have benefited from having a whole month pass so that they could be critiqued and polished by all of us here. And things would have been better if we had more than just three entries. But that's not the case and each entry has flaws in them that could sway a vote to not garner them a first place vote or either of the other trophies being handed out. So don't feel bad if you happened to enjoy one entry more than the others.

In other news, I hope to see an entry from you this month; I always enjoy reading what you throw into the ring.

[Kane0]

Umm, sorry about that. Didn't want to sway your vote or anything, I was just brushing up on my 'quick-I-need-to-throw-together-a-monster' skills.

[Midwoka]

Don't worry, Kane0. My experience with horses involves being kicked with a glowing-hot horseshoe, so my knee-jerk reaction wasn't swaying me in your favor =P

[Tanuki Tales]

Well, the voting is officially closed! Congratulations to those individuals who won this time around!

I'll try to jump on the trophies tomorrow and have them out before Tuesday.

[Milo v3]

After tommorrow I should be able to do much more work on the Bleak Nemesis, no more assessments and no more school.

[Tanuki Tales]

After tommorrow I should be able to do much more work on the Bleak Nemesis, no more assessments and no more school.

Look forward to it.