Pathfinder Grab Bag Competition Chat Thread

[Tanuki Tales]

He told us we'd be doing something with pokemon, he didn't tell us what that thing was.

Likewise, he told us that we'd be doing something related to a single spell, but not what that something was.

That is all there is to it.

[Midwoka]

He told us we'd be doing something with pokemon, he didn't tell us what that thing was.

• Homebrew, I Choose You! - In honor of the announcement of X and Y your entry is themed around one of the current 652 Pokemon of your choice.

Likewise, he told us that we'd be doing something related to a single spell, but not what that something was.

• Spell it Out for Us - Your entry is themed around one spell of your choice.

In both cases, you choose the spell or pokemon. And since I only know of one PF GRab Bag Competition that didn't let you choose whether to make a base class, prestige class, monster, or race (the exception being A Day In The Life), I'm pretty sure that decision will be left to each of us, too =)


And Troll Bräu: I approve of having those themes one after the other. But I don't approve of you not being Troll Bräu no mo'! You could at least keep the old avatar 'til you get a new one, so you're easier to recognize...

[DawnbringerSO]

I don't mind which comes first, pokemon or spell it out.

How about in may though, the contest is dragon themed?

And maybe in June, just throwing an idea out here, but a futuristic or technology theme. You know, like a class that uses a mech to walk around in, or a class that combines magic with gnommish technology to engineer useful items like bow or gun based sentry towers.

[4th number]

The Solarsworn now has actual content in the Solar Aspects. Critiques, balance issues, and suggestions for more Aspects is appreciated.

[Tanuki Tales]

And Troll Bräu: I approve of having those themes one after the other. But I don't approve of you not being Troll Bräu no mo'! You could at least keep the old avatar 'til you get a new one, so you're easier to recognize...

I've....actually lost the url for that image.

I don't mind which comes first, pokemon or spell it out.

How about in may though, the contest is dragon themed?

Thought in the pot.

And maybe in June, just throwing an idea out here, but a futuristic or technology theme. You know, like a class that uses a mech to walk around in, or a class that combines magic with gnommish technology to engineer useful items like bow or gun based sentry towers.

June is going to be Once More, with Feeling!, but tha's another thought in the pot.

[4th number]

Lots of ongoing edits in my entry. Requests for input are all over, in red.

[Tanuki Tales]

Since it hasn't gotten one from me yet, here's a rundown for the Contractor! Mind you, it's a small one that's more a skim through than a comprehensive read, but that's just because of how big it is.

Let's start with grammar, per usual.

Fluff

• I think you meant "protect" instead of "protection".
• You should have a comma and not a semi-colon after "this power". The comma after "different direction" can be a semi-colon though.

Obeisance

• I think you meant "contractor" instead of "contractors"

That's it for grammar for now.

• This class is just great. It has a flavor to it that is a main stay of fantasy and uses unique mechanics that seem to be a blend of 3.5's Tome of Battle and Utterances to pull it off.
• I'd like to see some sample Obseisances, since completing them gives you such a massive recuperation of your resources.
• You do realize that someone who has an Angelic, Demonic and Infernal Patron can not be one themselves, right?
• I really hope you post this class after the contest ends. It's not something you'll see come to full fruition in the confines of this contest.

[4th number]

First draft done. Worked everything into the Solar Aspects, so their choices of five of those really define the character.

EDIT: Some of the Aspects are pretty powerful for an 8/10 spellcasting class. If 10th level had no spellcasting, would anyone take it (losing 9th level spells) in order to get another Aspect, do you think?

EDIT2: I think it's the right thing to keep the power level in check. New question: Are the capstone Solar Aspects (or the ability to add new ones that improve existing ones (and scale Aspect abilities by one more even number) equivalent to 9th-level spellcasting? Are they fun enough on their own that they don't have to be?

EDIT3: Or a capstone. Hmmm. Anyway, I made the change to the table and I'm modifying the text to reflect the new dead spellcasting level. This means that a Sorcerer definitely loses 9th-level spells if they take it all the way, assuming I wrote the entry requirements right.

[4th number]

Build notes:

8th level is a natural breakpoint. A sorcerer can take it for 8 levels, getting 6/8 spellcasting and 2 second-tier Aspects. At 18th level they have 16th level sorcerer-ish casting. From there, they can go straight solarsworn for another even-numbered level and a capstone Aspect and the new class capstone (but no 9th-level spells). They can also take a PrC and advance EITHER spellcasting for 2 more levels, getting 9th-level sorc OR cleric spells.

A wizard has it easier. They can go wiz10/ss10 and get all 5 Aspects AND 1 level of 9th-level cleric spells. They can also use their 19th and 20th levels to advance cleric spells for 2 levels, OR do 1 and the other and get some arcane and some divine spells, which is probably the best choice.

Wizard 10 / Solarsworn 8 / PrC dip 1 (arcane) / PrC dip 1 (divine) is a powerful but non-traditional way to get 2 9s keyed off of Intelligence. You'll have 1-5th level wizard spells, 6-9th cleric, and 9th wizard. Since you can use your bonus slots on either casting (which I'll clarify in the text), this will be a hell of a thing. If you spend your 4 Aspects on buffs, you are almost totally SAD and extremely powerful.

[Milo v3]

• This class is just great. It has a flavor to it that is a main stay of fantasy and uses unique mechanics that seem to be a blend of 3.5's Tome of Battle and Utterances to pull it off.

• And strangely I lack both ToB and ToM.
  
  

• I'd like to see some sample Obseisances, since completing them gives you such a massive recuperation of your resources.

[4th number]

Deific Recommendation (Su): At 10th level, a solarsworn is among the most favored of mortals. Upon reaching 10th level and once per year thereafter, the solarsworn and his patron can perform a special ceremony that takes one hour and consumes a sacrifice worth at least 25,000 GP. The required sacrifice varies widely by god, and may be something specific.

This ceremony calls the personal attention of the patron's patron, a god. If it is successful, the solarsworn may ask the god for a boon, a specific favor with the full might of the deity's power behind it. The god may grant the favor outright, or they may require something else of the solarsworn to fulfill the request. A deity seldom refuses outright, though-- the most favored lieutenant of one of his mightiest angels is a mortal worth helping.

Those who commit to this class, losing three levels of spellcasting and maybe 9th level spells, get this flavorful wish effect that's like a quest in a box.

And nothing says "I'm 20th level" like a pop-in from a god after the harrowing completion of a delicate holy ritual while you and your angelic boss fight off daemonic hordes bent on killing a deity.

[Tanuki Tales]

Here's another run-down for the Solarsworn!

I'm going to skip grammar, if there was any, because this needs straight critiques on mechanics.

• You borked the requirements to enter this class. Since this is flat Pathfinder it's not a royal mistake, but it's a big one none the less. For example, I can enter this class at level 7 with the following build: Fighter 2/Wizard 5. Take the Magical Knack trait and your caster level is 7. The feats Mage's Tattoo and Bloodmage Initiate bump this up to 9. Spend 30k for an Orange Ioun Stone and your caster level is now 10 at level 7, allowing you to enter the PrC 2 levels earlier than intended. And this is without doing any further shenanigans, like finding a low CR monster with a good amount of RHD to play around with. You want to make sure they can actually cast 5th level spells. Alternatively, require 3rd level spells and ranks in relevant skills or make a new feat that has a flat HD requirement if you want to open this to classes with slower spell progressions.
• What exactly does Adaptation do?
• Looking over the Solar Aspects....just...damn. They're good; really, really good. I'm going to suggest that this class only grants 5/10 casting, because I feel like what it nets you is good enough to counterbalance the loss of 8th and 9th level spells for the Tier 1 classes when you aren't playing in High Op games.

And that's it for now.

[4th number]

Adaptation notes are just sidebars, for adapting the class to other flavors. I'll set them aside in spoilers to make it clear they're separate.

[4th number]

Changes and notes:

1. There's no reason not to just specify 10th level as a requirement, right? I'm doing that, plus requiring 4th level spells, which allows in single-classed half casters.
2. Made spellcasting 6/10, so as to deny all full casters 9th level spells but not deny half casters their 6th levels. Casting is now at odd numbered levels plus 2nd level, so the second lost level is still at 6th when the better Aspects kick in.
3. Solars can't take away Aspects anymore, just their divine spellcasting.
4. Heavy edits in Divine Transformation. I'd love input on the part about resuming the arcane spellcasting progression.

   Divine Transformation: At some levels, a solarsworn gains spells known and spells per day at the same spell level as he would if he advanced in his original arcane spellcasting class. However, all new spells learned are divine spells drawn from the Cleric/Oracle spell list. All spell slots gained by advancing in this class (not including bonus spell slots) must be used to prepare or cast spells learned in this way. These new divine spells are not subject to arcane spell failure and may be freely cast in armor. A solarsworn may use his bonus spells for either arcane or divine casting.
   
   Learning and casting spells continue to function in the same way. The ability scores used to determine save DCs, maximum spell level, and bonus spells per day remain unchanged. A solarsworn can still cast any of his arcane spells learned through his original arcane spellcasting class, using the lower-level spell slots that he gained through that class.
   
   If a solarsworn later takes a prestige class that advances divine spellcasting, they continue the same spellcasting progression, gaining higher level spells and spell slots as though they gained additonal levels of solarsworn casting.
   
   If a solarsworn later takes more levels in their original arcane spellcasting class or a prestige class that advances arcane casting, they resume their arcane spellcasting progression as though they had never gained solarsworn casting. Their solarsworn spells and spell slots continue to function and they can resume their divine spellcasting progression at a later time.
   
   Design notes:

   Spoiler

   Show

   If a character with a limited, fixed spell list (like the D&D 3.5 Beguiler or Warmage) becomes a solarsworn, the DM is encouraged to work with the player to develop a new spell list that fits the practical and thematic needs of the character. Normal Pathfinder arcane casters all have sufficiently extensive spell lists that granting access to the Cleric/Oracle list isn't a big leap in terms of versatility.
   
   If a character has psionic manifesting or a similar class feature that advances in level like spellcasting, they might also be able to become a solarsworn, exchanging their normal capabilities for divine casting.

5. Minor changes throughout, fixing pronouns, removing red notes.

I think I've got the class in decent shape now. I'd love input on specific Aspects-- Are there any that are obviously mandatory? Any that will very seldom be chosen?

EDIT: The new advancement rules mean that a wizard can dip solarsworn 2 and get a handful of midlevel divine spell slots and one Aspect for the price of losing 2 levels of normal wizard progression. I think that's pretty much okay.

[Tanuki Tales]

I'll give it a more thorough look over later today (when I'm more awake and all), but for now I'll suggest kicking the even level casting prog down to either 4th or 6th level. We want to discourage dipping, not make it attractive.

[4th number]

I'll give it a more thorough look over later today (when I'm more awake and all), but for now I'll suggest kicking the even level casting prog down to either 4th or 6th level. We want to discourage dipping, not make it attractive.

I'm going to modify some more easy Aspects to get a power bump at 6th to improve stickiness. Casting at 4th instead of 2nd is definitely an improvement: it means that you can't score an Aspect without losing casting.

EDIT: Almost everything now scales per three solarsworn levels, or gets a buff at 6th, or is attainable at 6th.

EDIT2: Removed the "in progress" tags. Mostly now looking for specific Aspect critiques (eesh, there are 32 of them, 10 of which are 6th+) and/or anything else I missed.

[Tanuki Tales]

Pathfinder makes me weep manly joy guys.

I question whether sticking with Pathfinder through thick and thin, even with DnD Next on the horizon was the right thing to do and then they give us things like this and I'm reminded why I stick with them.

[4th number]

Paizo can get away with (awesome) things like that because they don't feel the same burden as WotC does when carrying the big "D&D" standard into battle.

[DawnbringerSO]

Troll, could you please comment on what I've done so far for my entry?

[4th number]

Troll, could you please comment on what I've done so far for my entry?

I can do a quick grammar etc rundown:

• Suggest first sentence read: "A Pact Bound Warrior is a warrior who has made a pact with an entity or entities, whether they be spirits, demons, dragons, or something else, in order to gain powers." Lotta commas there anyway. Maybe 2 sentences?
• Space after "Starting Gold:"
• Missing the line for skill point per level (you just have 1st level)
• The Pact Bound Warrior is proficient with all simple and martial weapons
• You still have the "all other class features go here" note
• Suggest Pact read: "Pact (Ex): At first level, you choose the type of entity you have made a pact with, and the reason why the pact was made. It could be as simple as advancing the cause of the chosen entities, or something more sinister, such as selling your soul to a devil or being the eyes and ears of a dragon. Always confer with your GM before deciding on the reason for a pact."
• Suggest Pact Power read: "...Unless otherwise noted, activating a pact power is a standard action.
• Suggest Final Pact Power read: "... The nature of these bonuses depends upon her chosen Pact."

Nothing serious, just details.

[4th number]

Changes to Solarsworn:

• added bullet points to Aspects, making it way more readable
• added a specific reference to Miracle in Deific Recommendation
• fixed grammar

[Tanuki Tales]

As asked, and since I have time, here's a run-down on the Pact Bound Warrior!


Looks like 4th tackled the grammar, so I'll jump right onto the mechanics of this class.

• Evil Eyes should be a Su ability, not an Ex. Also, is the concentrated effect not supposed to give a save?
• Painful Strike should be a swift action, not a free action.
• Spear of Purity should probably be changed to key off character level since this class doesn't exactly have a caster level.
• Holy Wings probably should be accessible by level 6 instead of 11. I feel it'd be too late by then.
• Wings is given even later, so see my suggestion above.
• Why is Breath Weapon given so late?
• I'll need to sit down and plot it all out, but I'm worried that you don't have enough "all colors" powers in the Dragon Pact.
• Why does Powerful Build's Awesome Blow only work with a hammer?
• Overall, I think this class is pretty much decent and is the quintessential expectation for the theme. My only real issue is that your Pact Bound Warrior just has too many dead levels.

Aaaand done.

[4th number]

Any chance I could get a rundown on the class? I'm mostly concerned with balancing the Aspects.

[Tanuki Tales]

Any chance I could get a rundown on the class? I'm mostly concerned with balancing the Aspects.

The first suggestion I'll give you is spoiler the Aspect trees together so it's easier to read.

[4th number]

The first suggestion I'll give you is spoiler the Aspect trees together so it's easier to read.

It is done, m'lord.

[DawnbringerSO]

• Evil Eyes should be a Su ability, not an Ex. Also, is the concentrated effect not supposed to give a save?
  

• Ok, and good catch, it was meant to allow a save.
  
  

• Painful Strike should be a swift action, not a free action.

[Tanuki Tales]

Sorry I haven't had the time to be in here these last few days guys. College is started again, real life is getting hectic and I need to pay attention to the game I'm trying to put together.

[Milo v3]

The Contractor class is finally in a Playable state, but before the contest ends I'm going to try and add an archetype.

[Tanuki Tales]

Last day of the contest everyone!

[4th number]

NO, I've borked my formatting and my table! Please don't close anything in the next hour or so!

EDIT: Well, I'm working my way through the ****ups. I gotta eat, but I'll be done by midnight EST at the latest.