Pathfinder Grab Bag Competition Chat Thread

[Tanuki Tales]

{table=head]Working Name|Theme|Votes
The Call of a Hero|Dragons|0
The Third Law|Science and Technology|0
Gamer's Gambit|Video games|0
Homebrew Homebrews|Crafting|0
Mutagenic Madness|Evolution and Mutation|0[/table]

Second draft voting begins now folks. Works the same as the first draft, except this time you only get 3 votes. Voting will remain open until 11:59 pm Thursday.

[SamBurke]

Mutagenic Madness,
The Third Law
annnnnnnd:
The Call of a Hero

My votes! Sad that Symbiosis didn't make it, though.

[Tanuki Tales]

{table=head]Working Name|Theme|Votes
The Call of a Hero|Dragons|1
The Third Law|Science and Technology|1
Gamer's Gambit|Video games|0
Homebrew Homebrews|Crafting|0
Mutagenic Madness|Evolution and Mutation|1[/table]

Votes tallied to here.


@Sam: Well, there's always July's theme. You could just re-suggest it and hope that the votes go its way next time.

[SamBurke]

@Sam: Well, there's always July's theme. You could just re-suggest it and hope that the votes go its way next time.

I shall indeed.

[Ilorin Lorati]

My Votes:

Gamer's Gambit
Third Law
Homebrew Homebrews

[Tanuki Tales]

{table=head]Working Name|Theme|Votes
The Call of a Hero|Dragons|1
The Third Law|Science and Technology|2
Gamer's Gambit|Video games|1
Homebrew Homebrews|Crafting|1
Mutagenic Madness|Evolution and Mutation|1[/table]

Votes tallied to here.

[SamBurke]

And now, it's time for MORE CRITIQUES!

inuyasha's Evaspddr:
Incomplete. If/when you complete it, I would be delighted to critique.

Ogasau's Master of Missiles:

Chassis/Pre-Requisites/Overall:
Under the special pre-requisites, I would not word it quite so... distantly. Just say, "If the character is a wizard with a chosen arcane school, that school must be evocation."

Not much there on the skills... I feel that there should be at least something more.

Saves/BAB looks normal, skill points are standard. I am wondering why you made the choice to penalize full casting, considering the focused nature of the class, but I think a 4/5 would be ok.

Abilities:
MISSILE MASTERY: A good ability, but I am wondering about the metamagic reduction... sure, it's only for Magic Missile, but if you can cast a Maximized Echoing Magic Missile at level 7, that's a little much. (Damage= 1d4+1x5, Maximized =25, Echoing=50, auto-hits, no saving throw)

MAGIC MISSILE STORM: At character level 3, the earliest this can be gained, you fire 3 missiles. Not really flashy, and especially considering the cost (and the full-round action required to cast), it's not great. But, what about, say, level 6 or 7, when you exit the class? By sacrificing your highest level spell, 4th, you gain a total of 8 missiles... Still not much, but I suppose that if you add in Missile Mastery, it's alright.

AT THE DARKNESS: This is a GREAT ability, as it balances fluff (humor!) and crunch, by being both useful and interesting. You can blind-target an area, and hit whatever's inside. Many uses, but requires creativity... all in all, a great power.

MISSILE BARRAGE: Now we're talking! I'd enjoy playing a character who had this, using a sort of taunting style. "Oooh!" "Ouch!" "Yowsa!" "Sorry, I keep hitting you... oooh... in the face... with these missiles!" and so on. But, I do have a question: is storing the MM "inside" of himself going to be a free action, as well? It makes sense that it would be, maybe, a swift action or something, just to provide some more use for that poor, poor, swift action.

GREATER MISSILE STORM: Well, now it's just ridiculous. You can give +10 Metmagic (-5 from Missile Mastery and -5 from this ability) to a first level spell, as well as adding an additional 5 or so missiles. I suppose the fact that you're basically forced to use up one of your few high level slots (you wont' have ANY most likely when you exit this class) makes up for it.

As to the requirement that they have to be 6-9, that makes an interesting dynamic... almost like you get a capstone that won't be useful for another 5 levels or so. Well, that's exactly what it's like, if you don't enter this class pretty late in the game.

I guess it makes sense, considering the power of the ability, though.

Fluff:
Obviously, you went for a full-funny feel, and it came out rather well. All of the fluff is written humorously, and even the abilities themselves feel tongue-in cheek. It's short, so there's not much to say. LOL.

Balance:
Not really sure that "balance" as such needs to come into play for a class that would most likely not see play in a serious game, but I might as well.

It's "sorta" balanced. Assuming 5 levels of this class, and then 8 levels of wizard, you can get level 6 spells, allowing you to use Greater Missile Storm. Having done so, you get 10 missiles(5 from the spell, +5 from GMS), then apply +15 Metamagic (Because why not actually fill up the space from 1-5 in GMS, instead of just burning it?), allowing you to give the following things: Maximized (3), Piercing (1, gets rid of almost all SR), Echoing (3), Empowered (2), Intensified (+1, allows you to gain an additional +2 Missiles by increasing the damage cap), Quicken (4), Toppling (1), for a total of 15. This means that you're now firing 12 missiles on the first turn, then an additional 12 missiles the second time. Remember also that this is a SWIFT Action casting, due to Quicken. Damage is as follows:
Turn 1: 12 x (1d4+1 x 1.5 [Empowered]), Maximized = 84, Targets Save or Prone
Turn 2: 12 x (1d4+1 x 1.5 [Empowered]), Maximized = 84, Targets Save or Prone

So, total of 168. For comparison, a 9th level spell from a 20th level wizard does an average of 20d6, or 70 damage (Clashing Rocks), 100 (Power Word: Kill auto-frags anything <100HP), 112 (Meteor Shower). The only spell at NINTH level that can beat what this class can do at level 13 is Wail of the Banshee, at 10HP Damage per Caster Level, or around 130 when GMS comes online.

So... I dunno. It's certainly blasty, I'll say that.

Final Thoughts:
It's a fun, amusing, class, but the abilities' power levels have a huge spread.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Gamers Gambit
Call of the Hero
Homebrew Homebrews.

[Tanuki Tales]

{table=head]Working Name|Theme|Votes
The Call of a Hero|Dragons|2
The Third Law|Science and Technology|2
Gamer's Gambit|Video games|2
Homebrew Homebrews|Crafting|2
Mutagenic Madness|Evolution and Mutation|1[/table]

Votes tallied to here.

[Ilorin Lorati]

And now, it's time for MORE CRITIQUES!
*snip*

Yeah... the class was literally made in about half an hour, with a couple updates afterwards. I'm not surprised there's consistency issues. In fact, I would have been surprised if there wasn't.

Thanks for pointing out the formatting issues. I rewrote the special requirement halfway through and didn't think to clean it up. I'll add a few more class skills, but I'm not really sure what they could gain that they wouldn't already be guaranteed to have.

Let me start with an important note: the earliest you can get into the class is character level 7, because Minor Spell Expertise requires the ability to cast 4th level spells.

I think I'll be bringing down Missile Mastery quite a bit, by limiting it to being used on one metamagic; they can still take that other feat* if they want more metamagic shenanigans, though.

Magic Missile Storm could use a little bit of a buff; How would removing the 2nd level floor sound (this would allow them to sacrifice a 1st level evocation spell for 2 extra missiles, and increase all other levels by 2) sound? This was my original design, but I tweaked it down a tad.

Thank you for the compliments to my mid level abilities, coming up with them was the best part. xD. I'm not sure if I want to switch storing them to an action it itself as opposed to as a part of using a missile ability, since storing charge is already a free action, but how about unleashing an additional amount of missiles above the cap as a swift action? Add a little bit more versatility to the ability pool, without so much increasing the overall DPR of the class.

Greater Missile Storm: You normally can't apply metamagic feats to spell-like abilities, so you can only apply 5 levels worth of metamagic feats to this ability. Does this mean that Magic Missile Storm is even weaker than what you thought? Is 2 additional missiles going to be enough?

I noticed that you mentioned that it's 5 bonus missiles; I think you misread Magic Missile Storm, which grants you bonus missiles equal to twice the sacrificed spell's level (over 1st). The ability itself is only usable once per day, so I don't think you could gain benefit from Echoing spell, except to be able to cast the sacrificed spell anyways.


*Spell Perfection


Edit: I've made changes to the PrC. The changelog is at the bottom of my original submission.

[inuyasha]

mutagenic madness
third law
gamers gambit

[SamBurke]

Thanks for pointing out the formatting issues. I rewrote the special requirement halfway through and didn't think to clean it up. I'll add a few more class skills, but I'm not really sure what they could gain that they wouldn't already be guaranteed to have.

Well, I keep forgetting that this is Pathfinder, and Class Skills don't matter terribly much in PrCs.

Let me start with an important note: the earliest you can get into the class is character level 7, because Minor Spell Expertise requires the ability to cast 4th level spells.

Somehow, I completely missed that feat. My apologies.

I think I'll be bringing down Missile Mastery quite a bit, by limiting it to being used on one metamagic; they can still take that other feat* if they want more metamagic shenanigans, though.

That would make it solid.

Magic Missile Storm could use a little bit of a buff; How would removing the 2nd level floor sound (this would allow them to sacrifice a 1st level evocation spell for 2 extra missiles, and increase all other levels by 2) sound? This was my original design, but I tweaked it down a tad.

That seems pretty useable.

Thank you for the compliments to my mid level abilities, coming up with them was the best part. xD. I'm not sure if I want to switch storing them to an action it itself as opposed to as a part of using a missile ability, since storing charge is already a free action, but how about unleashing an additional amount of missiles above the cap as a swift action? Add a little bit more versatility to the ability pool, without so much increasing the overall DPR of the class.

I think having it as a part of the ability makes sense. Unleashing more missiles would be kinda cool, I think. I always do like the ability to Nova now and then if there's a boss fight.

Greater Missile Storm: You normally can't apply metamagic feats to spell-like abilities, so you can only apply 5 levels worth of metamagic feats to this ability. Does this mean that Magic Missile Storm is even weaker than what you thought? Is 2 additional missiles going to be enough?

Huh... Of course. That makes this much less OP. 2 additional missiles isn't that great, damage-wise. We're talking +15 damage at what, level 12? And that's assuming Maximized/Empowered. Still, it's not horrible... How many times per day do you get it?

I noticed that you mentioned that it's 5 bonus missiles; I think you misread Magic Missile Storm, which grants you bonus missiles equal to twice the sacrificed spell's level (over 1st). The ability itself is only usable once per day, so I don't think you could gain benefit from Echoing spell, except to be able to cast the sacrificed spell anyways.

Well, I would argue Echoing would still apply, just the same as Twinned would. Still, getting 2x bonus missiles, then gaining LESS Metamagic would work it out to around even, IMO.

[SamBurke]

And on, on, on to the final critique!

gr8 artist's Gallows Ghost

Crunch
The choice to change the size of teh creature is odd.. I know they have no meat on their bones so to speak, but they're still just as tall as before, right? I mean, why would a 6-foot man who got hung and turned into a skeleton become smaller?

The AC change is an interesting one... losing Armor makes sense, gaining deflection is a little odd, but necessary to make up for it. Perhaps change deflection to Profane?

Defensive Abilities are all more or less normal. SR 15 is rather oddly specific, seeing as it wouldn't scale to be higher with a larger character, the way many templates do.

Perfect fly speed, makes sense. Alignment checks out. Darkvision, nothing too noticeable... Change of hit dice, though. Aren't undead usually D12s?

Special Attacks! Ah, now we get to the heart of this template. Rejuvenation isn't actually going to come up all that often in play, as it's several days down the line. But, I could imagine an enemy haunting a party, continually resurfacing and attacking, growing in power as they do... Yeaaaaaaaah.

Hangman's Noose is the whole centre of this thing, and it holds up. Not quite clear that you are basically CASTING Limp Lash, and that the ability damage and all is present. Notice that this is going to be the bread and butter for any creature with the GG template. It allows touch attacks, does some damage, is hard to escape from for most characters (mages and warriors will have difficulty), and gives you Fast Healing. That's a lot of epic stuff in one ability, to be honest.

Last Breath is somewhat interesting, given how underpowered it is the first time it's used (non lethal damage... yay.) and how incredibly powerful it is the second time. It's an insta-kill, assuming a failed save on the first time. For me, it's unclear whether they'd get a second save the second time, so I would try to make sure it's obvious.

Suffocating Shroud is interesting, as I'd never heard of the spell before. If possible, I'd put a link to the spell, like this, in the template itself for ease of use. The ability is a very close-range thing, but it would make for an awesome fight.

Under Special Qualities, it might be better to have each of those get their own, separate, write-up, as cramming them together looks less professional than the rest of the great work you've done.

Ability scores makes sense, but do remember that by giving them Cha+4, you're boosting a whooooole lotta stuff at the same time. Feats are good. Skills are all fine.

Fluff
A very cool, cool, template... adding it to any enemy makes an instant bossfight, and a scary one at that. Abilities that take away your breath, bind a noose around your neck and drag you into the air... while these are "spells", they are very unique, and feel fun.


Balance
I really can't place where this thing *should* be. I'd have to see your comparison creature to really get an idea of what it does, and whether or not it's balanced.

Overall
Overall, this is one of my favorite entries into the competition, personally, and I'm aching to see you give us a monster or NPC with this applied.

[Tanuki Tales]

{table=head]Working Name|Theme|Votes
The Call of a Hero|Dragons|2
The Third Law|Science and Technology|3
Gamer's Gambit|Video games|3
Homebrew Homebrews|Crafting|2
Mutagenic Madness|Evolution and Mutation|2[/table]

Votes tallied to here.

[SamBurke]

SUBMISSION EDITS:
I have added the Orb as a pattern, and Antimagic as a Sublime Rune.

In addition, I fixed some minor things. Is anyone willing to take a crack at critiquing even a part of the Deepcaster?

[Ilorin Lorati]

Stuff & things *snip*

Let's see... sacrificing a 9th level spell at level 19 (the maximum scaling you could get) with empower and maximize would come out to...

(10 [base number of missiles] + 18 [Bonus missiles from sacrificing a spell]) * 5 [per missile damage] *1.5 [overall multiplier]

A maximum damage of 210 in a nova, or 145 damage a round for two rounds, once per day.

What kind of power do you think would be good without being an overpowering nova? 100-150 damage in a nova, give or take? Apply one free metamagic feat, instead of five levels worth?

I want the ability to be worthy of only being usable once per day, but not something that can just kill a solo boss in a single round.

If I just allow one metamagic, then they'll all hover around 140-150 in one round, or 200 over 2 rounds.

I can take away the bonus level scaling, reducing the base number of missiles by 5, that could take away a little bit of oomph.

[inuyasha]

Just to say, I know my monster needs to be finished and it will be, I am just busy with real life and other threads, sorry

[SamBurke]

Let's see... sacrificing a 9th level spell at level 19 (the maximum scaling you could get) with empower and maximize would come out to...

(10 [base number of missiles] + 18 [Bonus missiles from sacrificing a spell]) * 5 [per missile damage] *1.5 [overall multiplier]

A maximum damage of 210 in a nova, or 145 damage a round for two rounds, once per day.

What kind of power do you think would be good without being an overpowering nova? 100-150 damage in a nova, give or take? Apply one free metamagic feat, instead of five levels worth?

I want the ability to be worthy of only being usable once per day, but not something that can just kill a solo boss in a single round.

If I just allow one metamagic, then they'll all hover around 140-150 in one round, or 200 over 2 rounds.

I can take away the bonus level scaling, reducing the base number of missiles by 5, that could take away a little bit of oomph.

Perhaps bonus missiles don't count as getting Meta-magic'd? That'd be the simplest fix, and it'd be almost perfect just in that.

[DawnbringerSO]

Alright! On to the next attempt to critique, and hopefully, less failing this time!

DawnbringerSO's Dimensional Dervish!
A PrC I have always wanted to see, and take. Just the idea of dashing through reality at high speeds is awesome.

Chassis and Overall:
It would be nice to see some more fluff, especially for such a cool class with great crunch. A picture is also really important, though it just might be visually-based me.

I tend not to do pictures because of all the stupid crap of having ask permission to use it. Seems like total bollocks to me.

The requirements seem to be easy, but, then again, they make sense: the whole point of the class is to be able to dance around, so no need to put in feat taxes for all the rest of it. Still, it is rather high for a Monk to enter (can't make it in until 13th level... ), but I guess that's how it works.

The monk was never going to be able to do dimensional dervishing until late game anyways. This makes it so they can do it at 14th level.

Good HD and BAB, which makes sense for a martial-themed class... But I'm wondering what Base Class you were looking at to step into this PrC? Magus? They only get this at level 10. Though, I guess it could work as a late-game class. It does have spell casting, so, honestly, if I was going with a Dimensional Magus, this is almost an auto-yes... Does cut into some of the other features (arcane pool et all), but I think it's worth it for the idea.

I don't see a way around it being a late game PrC. The earliest a class can get dimension door is 9th level.

[/quote]

Class Abilities:
FEATS: This class gives five feats, which are in the Dimensional X Chain I've had my eye on for a looooooooong time. It makes sense to do so, but I'm wondering: Do you have to qualify for it? Or is this one of those, "Gain even if you don't qualify" things, as with Monk and Ranger path abilities? I'd prefer the latter, but there does need to be clarity.

It's gain even if you don't qualify. I'll make sure to update it.

DIMENSIONAL GRAB: This is the only unique, new, ability on the list, but it seems interesting. My only question is: why would you *want* to take someone with you on teleports? Does it debuff them? Can you use your attacks when teleporting (as per Dimensional Dervish) on them "easier" or such?

You can attack someone while grappling them. You can also break a grapple as a free action. So, what's to stop you from teleporting straight up and letting go?

Final Thoughts:
If I wanted to make a Magus who dashed through existence really, really, fast, focusing on a TWF-style multi-attack idea, I think I would take this. The good HD and the BAB make it great for a martial idea, and the spellcasting makes up for the loss of normal class features.

Glad you liked it. It was designed so people would want to play it.

It's a little weak on new ideas and original content, but it's a strong, strong, PrC overall. Honestly, I wish it was core. My one major suggestion would be to maybe add some optimization or chooseability. Like I explain to everyone I ever talk to about Pathfinder, the game and the system is about having a crapton of choices, so you can get your feel juuuuuuuuust right.

But there is optimization or chooseability in it. Think about it. If you're an 10th level magus and then take this, you can get the first part of the dervish chain at 11th level, AND the 2nd part of it using your 11th level feat. Then you get dervish at 12th if you would so like to, because you can pick and choose any feat if you already have the feats that the class gives.

So if you liked, you could get all 5 feats by level 3 of this PrC, and choose any 2 feats you liked for the last 2 levels, or do it differently.

[DawnbringerSO]

Next run down coming down the pipe line; this time it's the Dimensional Dervish!

I don't see anything grammar wise to make note of, so let's move on, shall we?

• I look forward to seeing the fluff you attach to this class.
• While utilitarian and completely successful in turning a caster into a more mobile fighter, I feel that the class is rather...boring to be honest. It just essentially gives you 5 bonus feats, DD as an SLA (which, since it does this, I wonder if this class would be better served as something for melee characters and gishes instead of full casters, especially since it gets a d10 hit die and full BaB) and an extra attack. This by itself is kind of made worse by the fact that you can't take your first level in it till 8th or 9th level (level 13 for the poor damn monk). It just feels really niche to me.
• Dimensional Dancer needs to be tagged (I'm assuming you meant for it to be Ex.) and you need to specific what kind of attack it gets. Usually it's at their highest base attack bonus, but it needs to be clarified.

And that's it.

I knew that this was a PrC that a lot of people would have wanted to see/have/use. A lot of people hate that to get the dervish feat you have to be so high level. This class does them a huge favour by allowing you to get the dimensional dervish feat by as early as 11th level.

What you see as late is actually a greatly reduced level entry to the dervish feat.

And I shall tag it.

[DawnbringerSO]

Finally,

A call for a hero
The third law
Gamers gambit.

[Tanuki Tales]

I knew that this was a PrC that a lot of people would have wanted to see/have/use. A lot of people hate that to get the dervish feat you have to be so high level. This class does them a huge favour by allowing you to get the dimensional dervish feat by as early as 11th level.

What you see as late is actually a greatly reduced level entry to the dervish feat.

And I shall tag it.

But the only really claim to fame of a PrC being early feat entry is still pretty tame. I think the class would be fine balance wise if you added more flair and options for teleportation based combat.

[SamBurke]

But the only really claim to fame of a PrC being early feat entry is still pretty tame. I think the class would be fine balance wise if you added more flair and options for teleportation based combat.

Yup. Right now, it's solid. But you could add a ton of EPIC if you added some more options or possibilities.

[Ilorin Lorati]

Perhaps bonus missiles don't count as getting Meta-magic'd? That'd be the simplest fix, and it'd be almost perfect just in that.

That's a brilliant idea and I wish I had thought of it.

I'm going to try to go through yours now. I've split it out into two sections: comments / concerns and formatting. I'm not going to go through trying to break it though, that's not my forte. 8)

Class comments

• First, which spell is it that you're basing this off of?
• 1/2 BAB, d6, starting gold, saves fine. I expect this is a full caster class?
• Light Armor Proficiency? Nevermind, I see.
• I don't see any way to recover motes. I assume at rest?
• If it's a full caster, I'd expect their Key modifier to tie into how many times they can 'cast' per day, but I don't see anything like that. Is this intentional?
• The interaction between different runes and range is pretty cool sounding, but there's some concerns:
  
  • When you make a Ascendance after a Dweomer, does your ally have to be in the burst area, or are they treated as if they could be "touched" by your reach outside the burst?
  • When you make either a Dweomer or a Sigil after the other, can the range be recalculated based on the location that the other lands? How is this affected by an area increase depth; is it always calculated off the center, or off any point in the burst?
  • When combining anything with a Dweomer, can the origin point of the secondary effect be along the line of effect, or just at the end point?
• What does "Make an additional Jump" in the Effect of Depth list mean? Mostly nevermind, but you may want to make it more apparent that there's a canon list.
• Patterns sound a lot like shape and essence invocations. Not a concern, just making sure this was intentional.
• Gathering Designs is pretty damn cool, and adds a lot more action economy to the class.
• Now "Remember the Name" is stuck in my head... (Concentrated Power of Will)
• What happens when you enter an encounter with a design stored? If, for some reason, it's still there when you end the encounter, does it go away?
• Explosion wake... define edge. Leading edge, all squares in the effect that border squares outside the effect, all squares outside the effect that border squares inside it?
• Apotheosis Infusion; do you mean "Infused Pattern"?
• Undeath Rune. Does this mean anything knocked out by this rune automatically dies?
• Shimmering Rune; Enthrall doesn't have a default definition.
• Speed Rune; do they get an extra move action every turn they're affected by it, or just one and then it dissipates?
• I see a few runes with a 0 mote cost, but nothing in particular that works wholly as a cantrip-type mechanic. Minor issue, but most casters have them.
• Linkbender; I don't see anywhere that a link is described in the document.
• Sorcerer; You may want to make it clear that the Runes known is being reduced.
• Force of Will could be clearer. "While the deepcaster uses its Intelligence modifier for the DC of its patterns and designs, the Sorcerer uses its Charisma modifier." or something of the sort. Kinda... distant wording. ;)

Formatting issues:

• There's a comma after Runes in the Special section, but no second feature. Also, there's no "Runes" feature in the class features.
• The DC calculation, while it works correctly, does not read the same as all other DC calculations.
• I had to copy and paste the ⅓ into another window to see what it was.
• In Favored Designs: Bigsby, Mordenkainen. "You gain an additional Design at level 8, 13, and 18. " (Should be Favored Design)
• Beacon Rule; "t fails a will save, 7ou know whe"
• Greatness of Mind and Body appear to have their effects reversed.
• "Element of" Fire doesn't follow the naming scheme.
• In Archetypes, the "replaces" line always goes at the end. This is internally inconsistent in your document as well.

[Tanuki Tales]

{table=head]Working Name|Theme|Votes
The Call of a Hero|Dragons|3
The Third Law|Science and Technology|4
Gamer's Gambit|Video games|4
Homebrew Homebrews|Crafting|2
Mutagenic Madness|Evolution and Mutation|2[/table]

Votes tallied to here.

[gr8artist]

My votes...
Gamer's Gambit, Mutagenic Madness, Homebrew Homebrews

Thanks for the feedback. I'll try and work on the template/get the example creature up over the weekend.

- The size change I threw in because I imagined the creature as a skull and spinal chord, with only the illusion of a body. But, that's confusing and weird, so I removed it.
- The creature is basically a re-tooled ghost. Most of its traits and abilities come from the ghost template (deflection bonus, +4 cha, fly speed, etc.). It has less attack options, and nothing like the corrupting touch a ghost normally has (1d6 per CR, at will?) so I'm ok with giving it a scary 3d6-fort-for-half-stagger ability that will knock you out if you get hit a second time.
- Fast healing removed. Doesn't make sense anyway. I was tired at the time.
- What about the lynchable property (treat any rope used to loop, snare, encircle, or hang the gallows ghost as if it had the ghost touch property)... Is this worded well? Basically, even though it's still a ghost, you can hang or snare it with a rope around the neck.
- SR changed to 8+CR.
- What would you think if I made the noose deal 1 less ability drain but 1 point of ability damage each round? Too strong? Too confusing? Should I re-write the whole ability to be 1d4 ability drain and 1 ability damage to Strength, Constitution, and Dexterity each round? What about a crit?

[Tanuki Tales]

{table=head]Working Name|Theme|Votes
The Call of a Hero|Dragons|3
The Third Law|Science and Technology|4
Gamer's Gambit|Video games|5
Homebrew Homebrews|Crafting|3
Mutagenic Madness|Evolution and Mutation|3[/table]

Votes tallied to here.

[SamBurke]

- The creature is basically a re-tooled ghost. Most of its traits and abilities come from the ghost template (deflection bonus, +4 cha, fly speed, etc.). It has less attack options, and nothing like the corrupting touch a ghost normally has (1d6 per CR, at will?) so I'm ok with giving it a scary 3d6-fort-for-half-stagger ability that will knock you out if you get hit a second time.

Yeah, it seems like a cool ability, and makes sense. All the other stuff makes sense, too, I was just checking to make sure they were deliberate.

- Fast healing removed. Doesn't make sense anyway. I was tired at the time.

You don't have to, IMO, but you can.

- What about the lynchable property (treat any rope used to loop, snare, encircle, or hang the gallows ghost as if it had the ghost touch property)... Is this worded well? Basically, even though it's still a ghost, you can hang or snare it with a rope around the neck.

It's a cool, fluff-based weakness. I approve heartily, good sir.

- SR changed to 8+CR.

Sounds about right.

- What would you think if I made the noose deal 1 less ability drain but 1 point of ability damage each round? Too strong? Too confusing? Should I re-write the whole ability to be 1d4 ability drain and 1 ability damage to Strength, Constitution, and Dexterity each round? What about a crit?

Hm... I would give it some ability damage, yes. But be aware that can be dangerous to PCs, even after he throws a noose around someone else. So be careful about how much.

I'm not aware that you could get a critical hit with that ability.

[Tanuki Tales]

And after 4 or 5 months, I've finally updated the Archive.

[gr8artist]

It requires a ranged touch attack. Crits with drain/ability damage deal extra negative energy HP damage, IIRC.

I edited the post, added sample creature (CR 2 common criminal), and tweaked some of the abilities and wording. Clarified that he can have one noose / charisma bonus, which sounds scary at first, but all penalties wear off when the victim escapes. And over time, someone will make the Escape Artist check.

I went for a common criminal for my sample. A sorceror or antipaladin would have been scarier and way more powerful, but I thought providing a sample of the garden variety would be better for judging power and balance. At CR 5, the GG can have 2 nooses out at once, can be flying up to 30' away, and can hit for 4d6 once you're paralyzed. The DC's are low enough that only people with bad saves should fail, but the penalties can quickly turn a round of bad luck into a crushing defeat or (at best) Pyrrhic victory. I chose a low CR because that would still be early on enough that the party wouldn't have an arsenal of ghost-contingency plans, wouldn't have a lot of flight, and wouldn't be able to trap or lock it down.