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2012-03-29, 03:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is
Avatar by CoffeeIncluded
Oooh, and that's a bad miss.
“Don't exercise your freedom of speech until you have exercised your freedom of thought.”
― Tim Fargo
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2012-03-29, 04:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2008
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Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is
Focusing on trans* issues because that's what I'm sorta familiar with.
Remember the libra tampon add? That one had several cis gay people, including Ru Paul, identified members of the LGBT+ community coming forth and telling that the t-word isn't offensive. (Not too mention the incredible backlash trans* people got in r/lgbt for daring to be offended by something.)
Also: *cough* Dan Savage *cough*
The entire fractioning of r/lgbt started over people complaining that they weren't allowed to spout their transphobic nonsense. And I've seen on dozen occassions on trans-related articles people going "I'm gay and" followed by some horrible trans* stereotypes. (But that fits more in a general rant about LGb(T).)
Exact same thing to be honest. Children's agency and thoughts are often ignored because "adults know what's best for them".
Edit: Side thought; not saying anyone's actually doing this; but isn't saying "X community does something I dislike; I'm no longer an ally" comparable to the criticism "there's only one way to be an ally"?Last edited by Astrella; 2012-03-29 at 04:14 PM.
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2012-03-29, 04:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2006
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- Dinosaur Museum aw yisss.
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Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is
Nope. Not even a little, unless I'm misunderstanding. It's just saying "I am no longer willing to align myself with this group, because our ideals have deviated". It's making no comment on what anyone else should or should not do or be.
It's more comparable to "I no longer enjoy any M. Night Shyamalan movies; I am no longer a Shyamalan fan".Last edited by Serpentine; 2012-03-29 at 04:26 PM.
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2012-03-29, 04:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2008
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Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is
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2012-03-29, 04:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2010
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- Dublin, Ireland
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Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is
Hey everyone, would it be okay if we moved all the allies/Die Cis Scum/legitimacy of violence in activism stuff into spoilers? It's a bit heavy and a bit aggressive at times. I agree that it's something that people need to talk about, but this is a support thread.
So, allies stuff:
Spoiler
To be honest, I think allies are people who support the aims of the movement, and no one inside or outside the movement can really change that. It gets dicey when there's a contentious aim, I think.
Anger is reasonable from an oppressed person, but violence and advocacy of violence against random people is not reasonable as part of a movement.
I say again, everyone is allowed to have an opinion, but it is right to consider your own privilege and the situation of the people around you, particularly the people who do not share your privilege, when you're presenting or acting on your opinion, especially if it directly related to their life circumstance in a way it doesn't to yours. eg, a cis person proclaiming on trans issues. Unfortunately, no one is perfect.
Triscuitable is getting overlooked due to the argument, I think.
Hugs? I'm sorry to hear that. I hope you're coming to terms with it a bit. You know we're here to listen if you need!
Cheerfairy, Kenderwoman and Geologist by Succubus, Feminist Geomancer by Astrella, Kender Wizard by me
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2012-03-29, 04:31 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2006
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- Dinosaur Museum aw yisss.
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Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is
Astrella:
SpoilerI'm not sure how that connects to your question... But that's exactly why I'm so uncomfortable with that article about what constitutes an ally as opposed to an "AllyTM": because it's suggesting that if you have a problem with something an individual member of the movement says which is unrelated to the overall ideals and goals, you are no longer able to support those ideals and goals and should announce that withdrawal of alliance.
I'm not articulating this well, but hopefully you get the idea... But basically: yes, I agree with you. That is a dangerous message, and it worries me that that's the one I took from that article.Last edited by Serpentine; 2012-03-29 at 04:33 PM.
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2012-03-29, 04:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2008
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Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is
SpoilerHave you read the comment section on the Ally article? WillowNyx does address this. I think it comes down to two things 1) you can be an ally to a movement and disagree with certain parts. The main issue is trying to steer the movement in a way you prefer. 2) movements aren't monolithic. In this case there are tons of trans* people who don't agree with the sentiment and reasoning behind DCS. So it's possible to lend your support to those groups.
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2012-03-29, 05:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2006
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- Dinosaur Museum aw yisss.
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Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is
SpoilerNo, I didn't read it, and I'm glad if she did address those issues. Because the trouble with your two points, with which I fully agree, is that to me that article does not agree with them.The Iron Avatarist Hall of Fame!
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2012-03-29, 05:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2011
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- Somewhere south of Hell
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Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is
Hi again.
I dissapeared because my tendency to make big quotes led me to be almost entirely off-topic in a thread where folks prefer on-topicness. But even in just the last six posts there have even things I want to look at and explore. Why do you people have to be so interesting?!
Irrelevant though. My absence directly contributed to making Astrella sad, back when nobody had much to say about her feeling bad. So! I'm belatedly sorry, Astrella. I didn't mean to ruin your day. Hug?Last edited by SiuiS; 2012-03-29 at 05:35 PM.
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2012-03-29, 05:57 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2010
- Location
- Neurotypicalville, WA
Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is
She'd been openly Bi for a while now, and this I guess was just the final straw. Trying not to dwell on it, but I haven't heard the right words to feel better. Everyone just says, "you'll have many more girlfriends" (thanks?), or, "maybe she wasn't the right person" (she was, it just didn't work).
People try to cheer me up, and it hurts more. I don't want a new girlfriend, I want my old one back. I want to take her out to ice cream, and walk her to the beach, and hug her as the tide comes in. Not get told that there's someone else. But I can't have her back. She's not openly Bi anymore, the relationship is over. The depression that I'd lost with her is back tenfold.
I hate this, why can't I get a relationship to WORK?Last edited by Triscuitable; 2012-03-29 at 05:59 PM.
Steam username is Triscuitable.
I got VAC banned in COD: Ghosts for using an FOV changer.
I try not to think of how sad that is.
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2012-03-29, 06:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2006
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- Dinosaur Museum aw yisss.
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Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is
Wait... So is she gay now? Is that what happened?
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2012-03-29, 06:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2008
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Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is
I realise this probably won't help either, but this is a fairly normal and expected way for you to feel under the circumstances.
If people trying to cheer you up makes it hurt more (Something with which I can definitely empathise), I think you should just tell them you don't want to talk about it. Avoid dwelling on the subject, get on with other aspects of your life. It'll get better."'But there's still such a lot to be done...'
YES. THERE ALWAYS IS."
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2012-03-29, 06:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
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- Xin-Shalast
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Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is
Head over to the RWA Thread and be prepared to have a good back and forth is the only real recommendation for you. We're not the end-all be-all or anything, but if you lay it all out for us as far as what's been happening, what you've been doing and the results thereof, it's fairly likely that something will suggest itself. I'd recommend waiting until you've had a chance to recover a bit more though and, as Thufir suggested, focus on other things.
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2012-03-29, 06:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2008
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- Yes, that is true
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Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is
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2012-03-29, 06:28 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2010
- Location
- Neurotypicalville, WA
Steam username is Triscuitable.
I got VAC banned in COD: Ghosts for using an FOV changer.
I try not to think of how sad that is.
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2012-03-29, 06:57 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2011
- Gender
Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is
That would be my response too.
:<
*hugs*
Spoilers because Kender asked and I'm sure some of this is what she was talking about:
SpoilerWow. I felt a little sick just from reading that.
I can understand being angry at people for hurting you. On the other hand, attacking other, innocent, people just because they share one trait with those people who hurt you? That's not a good way for things to work.
I kind of want to bring that mustache back. I wonder if being Jewish will make people less likely to draw the connection to Hitler.
I'm just against "Die [anybody]". Until that anybody actively hurts somebody else. If somebody who is transphobic keeps it to themselves and doesn't attack transsexuals, they don't deserve to die. Somebody who rapes somebody, does. Somebody who kills somebody for any reason other than to protect themselves or family, does. Somebody who beats somebody, I'm not sure about. I know I personally might kill somebody who hurt somebody close to me, but that doesn't mean I think it's right.
And seeing as in your long life you watched their movements, I'm going to agree with you. I believe violence is only acceptable when used for self-defence. To hurt somebody else is to presume that one is capable of and worthy of fairly judging others. I don't believe any person is "better" than another to the point where that person is worthy of judging others.Jude P.
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2012-03-29, 09:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2006
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- Dinosaur Museum aw yisss.
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Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is
So this job application I just filled out has transgender under "gender"^ and "sexuality"*. Discuss.
^male/female/transgender
*heterosexual or straight/homosexual/lesbian/transgender/bisexual/prefer not to sayThe Iron Avatarist Hall of Fame!
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2012-03-29, 11:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
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- Bottom of a well
Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is
Why on earth is transgender under sexuality as well as gender??? It's not so much redundant as nonsensical*.
*from the perspective of anyone intimately familiar with the term.
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2012-03-29, 11:11 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2010
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- Neurotypicalville, WA
Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is
I've been thinking. I think that I've been a moron lately, and I need to think about who I am. Maybe I'm just a girly guy, maybe I'm not. I'm too much of a woman to be a man, too manly to be a woman.
Do I care? No, I just want answers.
Time to take another break, see you guys in a while.Steam username is Triscuitable.
I got VAC banned in COD: Ghosts for using an FOV changer.
I try not to think of how sad that is.
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2012-03-29, 11:31 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2011
- Location
- Somewhere south of Hell
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Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is
Im sorry to hear that friend. It's true you know; things do get better. You will be okay. Often that knowledge makes things worse. The future is the future, it will keep. But right now is where you live, and that hurts.
Pain is a catalyst for growth. Now is the time to self-revise. But be cautious. It's easy to have new paths staked and marked by logic, colored by anger or hurt or resentment, that you don't notice until far down the line. Try to stay honest with yourself on all levels. If something seems like a good idea only because you're hurt, it's best to acknowledge that.
Good luck and swift journey.
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2012-03-29, 11:52 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2008
- Location
- Yes, that is true
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Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is
... I don't know if I should applaud or facepalm.
Whatever your answer(s) is, I'm sure you'll find it eventually. *Hugs*
Honestly, though, you're being too hard on yourself. These matters are notoriously confusing, and you aren't a moron just for having trouble figuring it all out. Hell, if anything you're wise for giving it so much thought.
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2012-03-30, 12:28 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is
No idea whether it matters to anyone, but for a couple reasons, I'm just changing my forum Icon to female. no, I haven't transitioned or anything, still haven't even come out yet, I just think I should just go with female. It's also easier to explain away if anybody in my family asks about my account.
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2012-03-30, 01:15 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
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Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is
Probably because the terms "gay" and "straight" stop meaning much when you don't have a clearly defined binary identity as a starting point. It's why I prefer "androsexual" and "gynosexual", but those terms aren't widely known.
Also, congrats Soft Serve! (I think? Are congratulations in order?)Last edited by Heliomance; 2012-03-30 at 01:17 AM.
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2012-03-30, 01:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2008
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- Yes, that is true
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Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is
Last edited by Arachu; 2012-03-30 at 02:18 AM.
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2012-03-30, 02:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2008
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- UK
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2012-03-30, 08:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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- Usaki City, Syona
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Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is
Recent Homebrew: The Socialite | The Crystalline: Memory Altering Construct Race | Sanguine Hand, a ToB Discipline of blood and cruelty
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2012-03-30, 08:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2011
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2012-03-30, 09:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
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- Gothenburg, Sweden
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Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is
Avatar by CoffeeIncluded
Oooh, and that's a bad miss.
“Don't exercise your freedom of speech until you have exercised your freedom of thought.”
― Tim Fargo
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2012-03-30, 10:13 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
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Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is
Thought I would say hello, come out a bit since this is an LGBT friendly forum. So, hi. I'm trans, will be getting facial surgery on Tuesday, and be full time aftter that.
Lawful Neutral Human Druid/Ranger (3rd/2nd Level)
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2012-03-30, 10:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2010
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- Dublin, Ireland
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Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is
Good for you, Soft Serve!
Poor Triscuitable. That's really tough, but so are you and you'll get through it.
Good try, people! I'm getting increasingly annoyed with forms that only allow male or female.
Related: Do you think forms would be better if people were more trustworthy when they fill them out? For example, I can imagine if the gender options were
( ) Male
( ) Female
( ) Other: ___________________
that you would get people going "hur hur, I'll put other and say my gender is gay/Jedi/toast/f**k off!". Maybe I'm being overly pessimistic about it. And to be clear, I don't think that's a good reason not to put "other" there, just that people making the forms might not want to put in "niche" options that are likely to attract joke answers. I would put in other and if someone wrote "toast", their form would go in the bin! Hopefully no one legitimately identifies as a toast gender.
Cheerfairy, Kenderwoman and Geologist by Succubus, Feminist Geomancer by Astrella, Kender Wizard by me