My Little Pony XL: The Plot Thickens!

[Pokonic]

"Oh, hey, is that a time portal?"
"BUY APPLE."
"What?"
"AND PAY ATTENTION IN FABRIC CLASS."
"Huh?"
"ONE PLUSH GOES FOR $5000 ON THE INTERNET. YOU CAN SKIP UNIVERSITY AND A CAREER PATH IF YOU KNOW HOW TO MAKE PONY PLUSHES AND INVEST IN APPLE."

1. Write yourself as a fictinal charecter, record most major events in the 21st century.

2. Keep it obscure as possible until 1999.

3. ???

4. Prrrrrofit.

Also, copywrite the name "Eragon" and crush a young mans heart for writing. For all of us.

[Thanqol]

1. Write yourself as a fictinal charecter, record most major events in the 21st century.

2. Keep it obscure as possible until 1999.

3. ???

4. Prrrrrofit.

Honestly? My time travel scheme is a fair bit more elaborate and effective than that. We're talking global domination here.

I've done a ridiculous amount of planning about how I can use the things on my person (phone, wallet, BOX OF MATCHES) to maximise impressing of the natives.

I can't talk about it in detail because I'm applying the concept somewhere.

Also, copywrite the name "Eragon" and crush a young mans heart for writing. For all of us.

This I did not think of, and I should have. Excellent thought.

[OracleofWuffing]

1. Write yourself as a fictinal charecter, record most major events in the 21st century.

2. Keep it obscure as possible until 1999.

3. ???

4. Prrrrrofit.

Also, copywrite the name "Eragon" and crush a young mans heart for writing. For all of us.

"Hey past me!"
"Hey future me!"
"Wanna go back in time and meet your past self?"
"Hell yeah!"
"Hey past me!"
"Hey future me!"
"Hey past-past me!"
"Hey future-future me!"
"Wanna go back in time and meet your past self?"
"Hell yeah!"
"Hey past me!"
"Hey future me!"
"Hey past-past me!"
"Hey future-future me!"
"Hey past-past-past me!"
"Hey future-future-future me!"
"Wanna go back in time and meet your past self?"
"Hell yeah!"

[Thanqol]

"Hey past me!"
"Hey future me!"
"Wanna go back in time and meet your past self?"
"Hell yeah!"
"Hey past me!"
"Hey future me!"
"Hey past-past me!"
"Hey future-future me!"
"Wanna go back in time and meet your past self?"
"Hell yeah!"
"Hey past me!"
"Hey future me!"
"Hey past-past me!"
"Hey future-future me!"
"Hey past-past-past me!"
"Hey future-future-future me!"
"Wanna go back in time and meet your past self?"
"Hell yeah!"

And then they had sex.

[OracleofWuffing]

...

Did I just get shipped?

[Pokonic]

...

Did I just get shipped?

Welcome to Ponythread! Let me show you around!

[MCerberus]

Future me: Hey past me
Year-1 me: Uhh...
Future me: Guess what happens this year
Year-1 me: I become jaded completely at the political system and get a degree?
Future me: Yes, but that's not important. PONIES *disappear*
Year-1 me: Well at least now I finally get to figure out if the universe really cares all that much about stable time loops.
Universe: *asplode*

[Soras Teva Gee]

Future me: Hey past me
Year-1 me: Uhh...
Future me: Guess what happens this year
Year-1 me: I become jaded completely at the political system and get a degree?
Future me: Yes, but that's not important. PONIES *disappear*
Year-1 me: Well at least now I finally get to figure out if the universe really cares all that much about stable time loops.
Universe: *asplode*

If the universe explodes then its not a stable time loop.

[Pokonic]

If the universe explodes then its not a stable time loop.

Well, we know that now. For science!

[Lix Lorn]

Lix Lorn auspisticing?

These two are now matesprites.

Only if I think it'd be better for them.

I uh, hmm, that is to say, er, well, maybe? Oh boy, how deep does this rabbit hole go?

Intriguing. Tell me more.
How deep can you cope with?

I reckon her design was one of my better ideas ^^

(tackleglompsnuggles Mask)

[Aotrs Commander]

First off, a picture for which I have no other word for but YES.

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Tali and Garrus are best ponies.

This does appear to have been a most interesting afternoon.

Okay, let's start here. First off, your theme music power-up is the Kanto gym song?

Can you think of a more awesome piece of music fitting for the situation? I can't...

So, did you have speakers installed on the ship similar to General Tarquin in is palace for when you just needed sound effects at a dramatic moment?

Yes. Yes I did. Presentation, remember...

Well, rigged the computer to play through the comm systems anyway, it's not like it was hard to do or anything.

Third, how does your metallic form affect your damage resistance, paralyzing touch, and overall speed and movement capabilities (you may have answered these, but if so I missed them on skim through walls of text).

Drastically improved, I would imagine, never had one in the first place, no noticable change as far as I can detect (probably due to the mithril component.)

And finally, does Star-Sergeant Derpy create clouds that frequently? Wouldn't that potentially mess up the life-support systems of the ship?

No, that was a first...

And why would it, it's only water vapour...

As do I. You know, you would think that being a cult leader with no power delusions who promotes casual use of necromancy would get his call responded to. I mean, realy, a nice sit-down over tea would go great, and perhapes exchange tips on how to keep black robes from looking guady in meetings. No, realy, you have no idea. I mean, yes, they look plain as can be, but when your talking with emissaries from places whos names are only mentioned in the darkest of tombs they look absolutly bright. And magical darkness is such a pain to work around.

Wear armour, that's the best solution... Especially if you can get hold of some that is magic-permable like Aotrs-standatd issue is.

I would love to hear his music sometime.

From a distance.

A significant distance. I have very good hearing and would like to keep it that way.

What does "Spiv-Wi-Re-Ment" mean?

Spirit Vessel Will Reinforcement is the correct technical term - Spiv-Wi-Re-Ment is Lord Yeller's abbreivation. It is a natural occurance of being a Lich, when the bond between body and spirit strengthens (as remember, Spirit-Bound Undead are effectively "haunting" their bodies, which is why we are immune to shape-shifting, in the same way you often can't permenantly damage a haunted house), granting increased physical, magical and often mental abilities. Generally, this occurs at age, but can also occur at moments of crisis and whatnot (and I've managed to pull it off once already, back in September...)

Though my form upgrade is not strictly Spiv-Wi-Re-Ment, but the principle is the same in that it was my (subconcious) will guiding the residual mana-molding and combining it with the "haunting" effect in a new way. Magic can be funny like that if you fiddle with it without spells (which is why mana molding is so dangerous!) It'll probably take some studying to figure out what I did and how I managed to do it...!

Organisational hierarchy makes perfect sense. By running all promotions through one guy you avoid disunity and by limiting the speed of your expansion you prevent that one guy being overwhelmed with promotion micromanagement.

Of course, Lord Death Despoil probably could handle everything personally if he spammed Time Stop or something... (There are rumours that he does that sometimes, at any rate...!)

My goodness. That's the first drawing of mine that's ever exploded so... dramatically.

First time for everything...

Also, copywrite the name "Eragon" and crush a young mans heart for writing. For all of us.

I kinda like the books. They aren't, like the best ever written, but they're okay...

[PrinceAquilaDei]

Hey Aotrs, I didn't get done tonight, but if you want to see how far along I am you can check by my drawthread in about an hour.

EDIT: or I just link it here.

[Pokonic]

]

Wear armour, that's the best solution... Especially if you can get hold of some that is magic-permable like Aotrs-standatd issue is.

Thing is, these things are of the traditinal sort. Elder blasphemies from the lowest pits of time and space and all that jazz. Heck, I am not entirly sure that they where ever "alive", because there less uber-evil abominations so much as sentinent darkness. As such, there the sort who wishes for a proper summoning. Foul chanting in the blackest tounges, a lightless chamber next too a underground lake in the deepest of caverns, I am sure a lich like you could respect eons-old tradition.

There only happy when there latest summoner is almost the same person from a few centuries ago, even if his voice is different and stuff like that. Thankfuly there beyond such things like "gender" and "generations", but it gets slightly embarrassing when the shadow-spirit calls my assistant "Him", even if she is plainly showing off her tasteful low-top (she got the wrong memo: devil summoning 101 is on fridays). Of course, when it all went south I remembered that the fastest way to a Elder Spirit is into the state that is known as it's tummy, and the next assistant always got his memos.

.....

Heh, I rambled there, didn't I? Well, the main thing is that anyone not in the time standered "uniform" gets them annoyed, and the original creatures who contacted them never wrote down there method for getting the mood right. Sometimes, I wish my Goddess could send her greatest servents a note about the whole thing, but what can a single ghoul do.....

[Eakin]

Re: Time Travel Shenanigans.

I'm such a geek, I actually picked a phrase a few years ago that I've never told anybody, so that my future self can use it to verify that he is, in fact, me from the future.

God, even admitting that on the internet makes me feel lame.

[SiuiS]

Here's my opinion of Mass Effect in Ponythread:

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The best part? In our Mage game, this is canon. Celestia woke up afterwards and was a gritty Canadian news anchor.

Midnight is awesome.

I'm gunna put my two cents into the Discord discussion!

He was a villain in a show aimed at ten year old girls. He was silly, mean, and a powerful enough jerk to need to be locked away. And... I think that covers him, pretty much!

You guys like really, really thinking about these things, don'tcha?

Yes! Yes we do. The extra mental power generated from our dissonant cognition actually helps power the forums, as does the the confusion and exasperation you feel.

Or, wait.

You did check the box saying you wanted the cognition friction implants when you signed up here, right?

Heh. *Yeah, I remember back when I used to overthink ponies. *Now I've just sorta learned to drift with the whims of the creative staff. *Same result in the end.

This is a good general stance to take. When discussing things, it's implici that we are taking them seriously for purposes of the discussion. I don't believe everyone takes these hard, solid stances home acts our quorum though.

I think there's something to be said for Discord being more an issue of Blue and Orange morality than anything that maps onto a convenient D&D alignment grid.

This is ... Well, a terrible device to describe t, but an accurate one. Morality is a funny thing. Really anthropocentric.

Note to self; Reach Thessia.

Additional note: after talking to Rainbow Dash, and you hear the banshee scream; look down. You'll be standing on a rocket launcher.

Sure do! Even if it's just silly speculation on the alignment of a draconique dracononononomomon rawrimadragon fictional villain of ponies, it's still fun speculation. I myself think he's firmly chaotic evil. Regardless of his personal focus on chaos, his actions land him on the evil end of the alignment scale. To take from a personal example: Yes, you can be focusing on the greater good and saving the world, but at the end of the day, you still flooded and exploded a city. Sorry, but turn in your "Good" alignment card.

Dissonance. Yes, of dungeons and dragons alignment, this is true. Some people are not talking about the in-game construct however. in dungeons and dragons, he is firmly Chaotic and Evil. Or possibly Unaligned Immortal Fey in 4e.

And on a side note, have some adorable Derpy sketches:

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*salutes* Star Sergeant!

has Capt. Ido nos posted in ponythread since the 9th? I wonder how his McD ponytoy quest is going.

I have this image in my head of him doing brushies and therefore too out of it to post.

I could buy that. They actually give you. comb with your ponies, and a poor quality one at that. doing brushes with said comb is tragic in its inadequacy.

That is to say, he'd be at it for a long while.

And then McDonalds, in a brilliant marketing move, distributes miniature brushes as its next toy.

Huzzah!

the horrible secret of ponythread.

we use ponypics to take posters down and then harvest their appendix for love. (it works better than anesthesia and tranq darts)

We use spoilers to lure out the lurkers so they can refill our numbers. Then we erode their ponymmunity with hugs.

We use plot-overanalysis to erode their minds so that ponysanity slowly invades their every waking (and dreaming) moment, until their are ripe for harvest.

the cycle of pony and friendship continues.

Do not resist. We are your salvation through destruction.

Ah yes, there sweet, sweet souls bring the Rainbow Of Darkness ever further to the world, and then it shall be ours to rule! Ours! Disneyland will invaded and it's fantastical halls will be the birthplace of our new land. The Pony Shall Last Forever! Muhahahahaha....
(I have binged on too many old movies, in case you cannot tell.)

Man, what is it with you evil people and 'darkness' and 'ruling' and 'forever'? You could seriously have all that and more by just relaxing on the whole conquest thing and making some friends.

Random unrelated thought:

So, Derpy Day, Operation Indiscriminate Friendship is... a "Thanq's giving" Day?

*dodges tomatoes, retreats into the Multiverse*

Tried that. He was really friendly about it, called it a misunderstanding; but there was a definite note of desperation when he slipped in a "seriously youth, this is kidnapping and slave trading. Do it again and I'll stop drawing you nice things."

actually the little ring that comes with them to clip em on to a backpack or whatever has a brushy part
--i know this cause i went and got the set the other day

I am jealous and bitter that you got the whole set. My store only ever carries two at a time! it's maddening. Which means I've probably missed some... Ach!

I'm gonna go to McDonalds and give them my contact information. And I'm going to tell them I will pay for the full set when they are done, and have to do something with the display ponies.

Related to reactions: What did ponythread think after watching their first bit of ponies?

I held off on my opinion until watching a complete episode, after which: "Wow this is so ridiculously cheezy. Must watch more."

My first bit that actually loaded was Flutterguy. I thought it was really cool, and rather ironic. Was this some sort of pastel bishounen pony?
And then I saw winter wrap up the song, and thought it was pretty rad. And then I saw the whole episode, and it was heartwarming. And then I stuck around for ponies.

Mirrors, keeping enough distance from the car behind me.
That kind of stuff.

Oh, poor child no
The faeries
Mirrors are how they get you

Knife? Eww. If I were gonna kill you, I'd either use a hammer or a sword. Maybe axe, scythe, or whip, but rarely if ever knife. Knives are boring.

...
♪ Bang bang Lixie's silver hammer comes down, upon your head~ ♪

It's been over what, two weeks? And I still can't think of a valid response for this thread. Hay, even Thanqol switched to an egg beater!

There's always the only barely NSFW thousand words though. kacfrog was a good artist. Come to think of it, a lot of facial feature decisions and color preferences of mine seem to generate from 'er.

Always happy to introduce somepony else to the series, it's probably my duty as element of YouTube to link that kind of thing. I'm sure any major fans have Sherclop's channel subscribed and got notified without my assistance though. Plus it wasn't the best episode. Luna seemed off, which is either a letdown or, considering the character as she's portrayed, some sort of brilliant meta-level humor (you can never be sure with this series).

Hm. You're actually making me consider giving this series a second chance.*

I assume she's in the middle of the slow, deliberate process of killing us with kindness. Kindness and shipping, the most adorable forms of murder.

Spirits, I'm being shipped to death?




Why can't I muster any resistance

I liked this one, which was a nice change given how I've thought that the previous ones in the series were incomprehensible networks of in-jokes.

eyup. I myself kind of got tired of these recap/voice over things back when DBZ in a nutshell was new. But I can let my old crotchety-ness hold me back forever, aye?

*takes three fatigue levels worth of pun damage*

Hahaha

He can't handle the punishment

Hahahahahahahahahahaha

Thought it was lame right up until Rainbow Dash appeared on screen. Then it became fantastic.

Which episode? I still get really into it when the guitars pop up in Winter Wrap Up.

The lights dim. The collective forum finds themselves all tied to chairs. And dimensionally anchored. And in an anti-magic field. And in a ship-proof bunker. Undivided attention here, people! Amish and Ido wheel out an old-timey slide projector.

Amishman! Why, we're a gag and some heels away from my having to break your heart.

Brace yourself ponythread; it’s vacation pictures time!

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The Meetup, Written by TheAmishPirate, illustrated and photographed by Capt. Ido Nos


Epcot. Now with 20% more Evil Enchantresses.

After several hours of harrowing plane flights, car rides, and vans, the both of us arrived at Disney World, Florida. Not content to let something like this wait, we both agreed to set out from our hotels posthaste, and let our preordained meetup commence!

That dazzling gentleman with the stylish fro is the Amishman. The goofball in the hat is a Captain of some sort.

And then crowds had to go and ruin everything. Gotta say, it was hilarious to watch people wonder aloud why nopony was moving when a fireworks spectacular was going down right behind them.

But we couldn’t spend all day punching/dragon kicking our way through the masses, there were things to do! Rides to ride! Streets to mosey! Creepy characters in costumes to flee from!

THE HORROR.

We quickly discovered the Buzz Lightyear ride was best ride. You ride on a cart that you can spin around, and shoot targets as you go through this large shooting gallery. Targets are worth variable amounts of points, and whoever gets more points gets to leave the ride!

We had a little trouble at first...

What is this I don't even

But we soon got the hang of it, and soon developed a friendly competition...

Friendship!

After enough rides, we finally got into the groove of things.

It's like we're not even trying! Or cheating. That could be true too.

It was a piece of cake after that...

... How did you hit the nine-streak? Also, dissapointed at lack of amishness, though the will ferrel fro is acceptable. Reminds me of my youth.

[QUOTE=TheAmishPirate;12898987]*Ahem!*

Yes, yes, that's quite enough of the old ivorys. I'm sure we're all thoroughly entertained. Now, back to slides!

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But, my dear ponythread, we did more than ride a single ride twenty-one times. We did more than raid the Japan gift shop like a pair of banditos. We did far more than amble about aimlessly for a greater part of the day. we also got a chance to meet none other than the great Soarin!

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Wait, there is a Japan shop in Disney World?
Oh man, Braz is gonna murder me...

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Heck yeah!

...it wasn’t quite what we expected.

What...hang gliders..?

But then we found some hats. Fancy hats make everything better.

It was a week to remember, but all too soon, it came to an end. The mighty oceans paled in comparison to the manly tears that were shed at our parting. It truly was such sweet sorrow.


Oh, and then we remembered we were accidentally brothers the whole time. The fact that we shared a hotel room really should’ve tipped us off.

SOON

Oops!

Aaaaaaand pose!

So

The only question left, and I ask this in all honesty


Did you know, before the Disney world trip, that you guys were related? Did Ido ever comment about this Amish guy he knew on some forum some where that AmishPirate would probably get along with?

Have you ever stepped back and plotted (can I get the laughing Celestia icon here) a day's ponythread?

Murder, birthdays, elder god ponies, the moment you went insane, anime girls with improbable weapons. *But then nobody wanted to argue with or agree with my assessment of Pinkie as a third-line enforcer. Must not be many hockey fans.

Hockey is a sport that gives me bladed shoes, a stick, and then says don't hit anybody. If I wanted reason for violence and prohibitions against it, I'd go back to highschool.

I guess the question is, which one of them is the Celestia and which is Luna of the sibling relationship?

BTW, ponythread is awfully quiet today.

Well. Ido went to a nonexistent future ponythread elements convention for the sole purpose of trolling Thanqol.

Amish Party swam through the multicolored air-sea of the nightmare vortices with me, braving unimaginable terror and submarine assault so that Two other ponythreaders could fight over Princess Luna's hoof.

So to answer your question, I don't know.

Well, some of our occasionally prolific posters have been busy (Mass Effect 3) and/or working on Strayvian ground forces while listening to the Extended version of Perry the Platypus theme.

What?

Yeah, sorry.
That platypus theme though, man.

In my defense, I make a really awesome Commander Shepard. Also really bald..*

Perry the Platypus is tops, yo.

So, again, something that I presume was covered in spoiler boxes back when the episode was first aired... In The Super Speedy Cider Squeezy 6000, Applejack says that if they took up the deal with Flim and Flam, they'd not turn enough profit and would have to lose the farm. *That... Doesn't add up. *The farm that we now know of as Sweet Apple Acres predates the founding of Ponyville, so unless Princess Celestia is levying a property tax on the land she gave to them (which, I guess, isn't too far-fetched considering some interpretations of her methods), the family really does own the farm proper. *Maybe they bought surrounding land on credit? *Do credit cards exist?

I mean, they grow their own food, so the major expenses they face are stuff that is determined by the quantity of the harvest. *The only other routes I can think of is that some sort of mafia protection money is involved, but the brothers being unicorns and the family being earth ponies means that I can't think of a mafia that would be involved without there being a conflict of interest somewhere. *Or... They needed to take out a mortgage to send Applebloom to school. *

Alternatively, I'm spending too much though on a children's cartoon, but that's just ridiculous.

See, this is based on a lot of false assumptions. Everyone thinks "they must owe money on the land!" why? Maybe they don't pay property tax. Maybe the overhead is high enough that after their honest pricing and labour and upkeep, they barely make ends meet? Sure, in three months they'll have a new product, but they'll also be two months' starved by then.

They have other workers, who are seasonal. Costs money. Thy have barrels and carts which need upkeep and replacement. They have some harsh weather, a varmint problem, and a specialized crop. How could they live anything but hoof-to-mouth? Paycheck to paycheck?

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I think a single finished work, even if fundamentally flawed, is worth more than half a dozen incomplete ones. There's all kinds of stuff that you learn at the tail end of a fic that you miss out on if you constantly write introductions. You know how people say 'the ending sucked' so often? That's because people practise intros and short stories and exposition and never follow through to the climax.

Finish the story; it's published on EqD, you may as well. Learn what you can from it. After that, sit back and think long and hard about the nature of your next piece. Identifying core themes, working out the pacing and beat, and figuring out your own take on the story while remaining true to the heart - and not the content - of the original.

Sound ideas from a relatively sound mind. Interesting.

New episode speculation:

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Let's play a guessing game: which pony is going to be involved only minimally if not completely ignored this episode?

Applejack!

You win!

Lyra, that's... You don't... I don't even...

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*skullpalm*

Somepony better get Bonbon a Potion...

Nah, see, this totally works.

New Episode Thoughts[Author's Note: Dragon Quest]
I really liked the premise. It basically seemed to me like Spike was questioning his own masculinity after growing up in a girl-dominated culture. This seemed very realistic and also very interesting.

Interesting. As an implicit theme, this would have worked. It could have been an interesting thing to explore. However, it came across to me in shades of accident and sloppiness; I think the masculinity vibe wasn't a conscious choice but a side effect, and kind of dragged the episode down with accidental baggage.

I loved the travel montage, but as soon as we got introduced to the younger dragons... I lost interest. I wanted them to be portrayed in a more subtle and strange way, so that it was truly alienating for Spike. Instead the dragons was just portrayed as stereotypical teenage boys. The resolution was obvious, and their personalities just seemed lazy. Also, since I was seeing the whole episode through the lens of gender (Ponies= girls, dragons= boys) I found the fact that the way ponies deal with scary dragons is running very disappointing. I mean between two unicorns and Rainbow Dash, those ponies could probably kick the dragons' butts! Anyway, interesting premie, overall disappointing episode.

Definitely. If only because the dragons were stupid.

The music throughout was grand. Plenty of appropriate guitar.

However, it's actually better that the ponies didn't fight, and didn't win. That's not what My Little Pony is about. It's about taking the smart course; Spike needed to be watched by those who loved him. This could not be expressed well through violence. It would have "solved" the problem of the dragons being rude, but that was a symptom. Never treat the symptom, except to keep the patient alive and comfy enough to treat the cause.

While I would have loved to see Dashie thrash the jewels off of big red there, and Rarity wear Tribal Bone necklaces to the next gala... That would be the best loss. Winning involves not playing by the rules of a game you think is dumb.*

okay, seriously, the best thing in this Episode?:

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Crackle the dragon. Second! Best! Dragon! Evar!

seriously he's about to replace Trogdor in my heart as best dragon.

Crackle is best dragon.
Sorry, Charizard

Hey, out of curiousity, if dragons dive into lava, why in the world are they intimidated by pheonix flames?

Flinching is the logical reaction when something bursts into flame and flies screaming at your face.

Some folks noted big red looked singed. Well, yeah, but that doesn't mean the phoenix fire burnt him, it means that carbon was released by combustion and clung to his scales. A red dragon struck by a massive fireball will still smoke and steam... Because they maintain the heat and the air around them is consumed.

[QUOTE=Mewtarthio;12913973]S2E21:
Paranoia isn't really necessary, since we know that Spike could potentially hit a Greed Growth spurt. The Everfree dragon might have severely outclassed Spike, but the baby dragon could have transformed into a serious threat behind his back. Of course, he still could have just driven Spike off rather than repeatedly attack with intent to kill, so he's not entirely justified in his behavior.[quote]

Eh. Let's be fair. He is HUGE. He repeatedly missed a Spike sized object with a more-than-Spike sized object. He wasn't trying. I know that when I feint to make people back off, I put some force in it, just in case they call my bluff.

Also, does the "Butterfly Migration" mean that Flutterdash is now canon?

What do you mean, now?

Excellence. Every moment spent in the Crackle disguise was just flawless. Rainbow Dash maintains best dragon status.

Those are fighting words, Thanqol.

You sure? Because elder dragons can be assumed to have life expectancies well beyond a thousand years if they're prepared to just bunk up and sleep for hundreds at a time.

True.

The sun is probably a recent innovation for them as a culture.

Untrue.
We have no reason to think this, and plenty to think otherwise. Celestia being 'in charge of raising' the sun is over a millennium old. Before that, ponies raised the sun themselves. Before that, there was no sun? But there were dragons. Eh...

No.

The magical Land of Equestria. Remember? I'm pretty certain that ponies, as a species, are as old as equestrian earth. Because it is quite literally a world created to encapsulate them. Dragons may predate pony society, as we know it; we have reason to believe that only in the last 1,500 years or so did it really take the form it did. But we cannot assume dragons predate ponies or even that ponies predate the sun.

*

There'd be plenty of dragons around who were alive when it was forged. Moreover, they eat gemstones and live in caves, they don't need photosynthesis and plant matter, the sun could go out and it wouldn't affect their society in the slightest.

Also untrue. Dragons can only flourish as they do because of the sun; they bask in it. Without its continual, nigh/infinite heat spread, they would have to fight over the finite caves with thermal vents, keeping their numbers low, and their society weakened.

And I take a more conservative view of Celestia's power; while she could totally defeat a full grown dragon or two there's no way she could take on a dozen or more. If she had that kind of power she could have solo'd Discord without need for the Elements.

Celestia is the sun. This is a reasonable assumption. Or at least, not an unreasonable one. It is all the more believable if we believe that dragons are deeply thrumming, chthonic entities. Her power, tempered by wisdom and intelligence, is sure to transcend that of any dragon.

The problem becomes one of commitment. I cannot see Celestia actually committing to lethal combat. So where Celestia can beat the entire dragon race, a handful of dragons could kill and eat Celestia. All things being equal, people (especially gamers) tend to discount the ferocity of wild animals. And that's what dragons are, beyond even Thanqol's invincible descriptor. Dragons are nature, fierce; tinged with actual malice. Or contempt if your lucky.

I've boxed a bull dog that broke out of a dog-fight trainer's yard, and it outweighed me by about 50%. I will also not screw around with a raccoon. Wild animals are disturbingly ferocious.

-

On discord and princesses; we have every reason to believe that Luna, young, impetuous and tumultuous, is the stronger of the two. More at home with her power. She came head to head with Celestia, and canonically we don't know if being Nightmare Moon was some sort of power boost, or I'd Luna just decided to not Hold back and Hulked Out magically. We do know, canonically, that Celestia had to use a McGuffin to beat her sister. We also know this same McGuffin is on the same scale that lets ordinary if exemplary ponies beat a chaos spirit lord.

Celestia has power over the sun. Celestia may as well be the sun. So to ponies, moving the sun is a monumental thing; to the sun, pacing around Equestria is a trivial matter of scale. All of Celestia's power is scholarly, not racial. Though Alicorns have a demonstrable natural affinity with their domains, that means Celestia could, potentially, better rifting to behold in splendor.

Dragons are pretty invincible. That's kinda their concept.

Yes and no. Dragons have been magnified through the recent ages. Dragons are often seen as insurmountable, but that's never been bourne out in the folklore. Dragons, from Europe, the orient, and anywhere I've ever seen a dragon show up in my studies, have always been to the Formidable what a wild animal is to the mundane. That is, a dragon is to a heroic demigod what a bear is to a hunter; separate but equal.

In recent times, dragons have become more symbolic. Folks see the reverence put on an armored, winged and clawed creature and compute that from a purely statistical viewpoint. The obvious answer is that a firebreathing dragon isn't just formidable, it must be fire itself! It is a chthonic thing, representative of blablabla.

Most of these assumptions leave out the nature of honestto goodness conflict. Pain hurts; trauma incapacitated on a biological level. Claws don't cut you, they pierce in, then rip. If you stop to think about it at all, it's terrifying. You don't know that anything you're doing is leaving any lasting harm; the sheer bulk of the creature means it requires magnitudes more trauma to reach the same level of impaired functionality.

People dissolve these conflicts down to numbers, odds. Sigurd has a decent shot of beating Fafnr. Yeah, well in the ring, that decent numerical shot is a savage fight for survival and dominance on both sides. You're not going to win if you don't understand that, respect it.

Dragons are fierce. They have never been unbeatable. They have always been magnitudes lower than modern media portrays them, even the divine lung. But that ferocity is so far beyond ken of those who don't have a firm grasp of it that a disparity of two could as well be a million.

Actually in alot of mythology I've read this may be the case, accordingly the Phoenix is a natural enemy to serpents (this was also used by JK Rowling with Fawkes against the basilisk) and most mythology define dragons as a type of serpent. So there is likely a type of cobra mongoose empathy. Spike and PeeWee could probably be the first friendly relation ever documented between a dragon and a Phoenix

Interesting. The eagle and the snake is a really old one, both able to kill in a single strike. But where the eagle must learn to aim, the serpent must learn to hide. Pretty one-sided really.

I like the thought of Spike and Peewee being some sort of ambassadorial first

My only real complaint is the over-stereotyped teenage dragons. Seriously, that just made me wince. In a show filled with great characters, lazy choices like that stick out like a sore thumb. I did count a few times when they could've acted to the true stereotype and didn't, so I guess it wasn't completely bad. And I also appreciate that the adult dragons seemed...well, adult. If all the dragons were acting like the teens, then some tables would've been flipped.

Aye. It's a good bit dissapointing. I had high hopes, too; I thought the black one with serrated horns was female.

And on another note, I initially felt like I wanted to see the ponies tangle with the dragons, but on reflection, I've changed my mind. For one, having the girly ponies beat up the stereotypical frat boy dragons probably would've taken the underlying message too far. Second, having the dragons lose would seriously undermine the thought that dragons in this world are a serious threat at all ages (barring hatchlings).

In any case, I enjoyed this one. Glad to see that Merriweather Williams seems to have found her mark.

Indicative of what I'm talkin about, really. Rainbow Dash beating a dragon does not mean anypony could beat one. She Is Rainbow. Miriam. Dash. That's an awful lot of pony to handle no matter the size of the dragon!

Poor Rainbow Dash. When it will be Rainbow Dash's turn to be the new Rainbow Dash?

To be fair, she hasn't finished reprising her role as the Old Rainbow Dash yet. Gotta give Dashie some credit; she's dedicated to her work.

Yes. My goodness yes. Rarity continues to be a best pony.

Sisters, now Rarity is Rainbow Dash? When will it end?!

New Episode:
Right. The messload of dragons chilling right the heck over there. That is also a valid reason to not get into a fight.

A messload of dragons is a valid reason for a lot of things.

And a bit of a writing update, to show that I'm not slacking off in that department: I feel like I'm close to done with a first draft of the first chapter. Only problem is, I've gone and changed it up so much that my initial introduction of the pseudo-antagonist/rival character (which sets off the whole plot) no longer makes any sense. Gonna take a break, play some Tribes, and see if I can't think of a good way to handle this.

This is why I don't do writing anymore. XD

The only high level magic Celestia's been proven to do required her to use the Elements of Harmony. Everything else is conjecture. If Celestia's power stems from divinity then she would only have domain over her portfolio, which dragons predate. Age does have power in divine terms.

If Celestia is Divine, then the sun is not a constructed thing. It is not a Silmaril. If anything, Celestia would be considered a construct of the sun and not the other way around.

Consider that Celestia is more of a spirit, a force, than a god. She is of the same order of being as discord, and is hot, fierce, constant, regal, nurturing, distant. All things we attribute easily to the sun and the day. Just like Luna is the lovely, close and dangerous shrouding of night. The two of them have become 'gods' where discord became some form of jotun or Titan, because of their chosen affinity to Ponykind. But unless we go the route of pony perception shaping the fundamental supernatural landscape, it's an artificial, or at least meaningless, distinction.

Celestia and the sun are not separate things. If Celestia is supernatural at all, of she is tied to the sun at all, then the best explanation is them being avatars of each other, them being one and the same. And this pans out even without conscious effort because if the writers intend any divinity for Celestia, this is the root that their western assumptions are based on.

Dragons, on the other hand, are established as less spirits, and more of natural, niche predators. Or maybe prey animals for ursa. Dragons would seemingly have spawned from world, where the sun would be an integral part of it from the beginning, if indeed it had one.

Conjecture both baffling and unfounded. Age may not equal experience but experience does not equal power. Experience could just be the knowledge that you don't mess with the thousands strong race of invincible dragons. Experience could be 'don't fight more than six dragons at once'. When you're immune to damage, older than the stars, and can breathe fire then you don't need skill or effort. That's what being a dragon is about; that's what a dragon is: Utter individual power.

Archetypally, yes. Concretely no. Dragons are not older than the stars, as the stars are part of the creation which easily conceivably predates dragon genesis. Dragons are not immune to damage; Spike being woundable destroys the very notion, and leaves you with resistance to damage in old age at best; and any resistance can be overcome with sufficient force. Breathing fire is also a potential liability.

I think what you are missing from your dragon equation is cunning; dragons are the worst thing to tangle with very specifically because of their gestalt nature. A dragon is as strong as a force of nature, but as directed as a living thing. It is a potent combination.


All that being said, yes, wisdom would bear out "do not engage massive reptiles in asymmetrical warfare to their advantage". Celestia would win a long, centuries long drawn out morale breaking war. Dragons would win a united front swooping down on Canterlot in a blaze of claws and fire. Celestia is wise in not even making this an issue.

And you're judging the intelligence of all dragons based on the actions of a small group of teenagers. If you judged humanity by the actions of any given group of teenagers you'd have a casus belli for planetary invasion. The other dragons haven't said much, but Stephen Magnet proves they can be just as glamorous and sophisticated as any pony.

Magnet proves glamorous; DragonshyGuy and Basil prove stupidity and feral attitudes are still dominant, culturally.

Dragons can cause avalanches by snoring,

Wasn't that actually pony inflicted?
Besides, I'm pretty sure a human can cause an avalanche by snoring.

can resist a direct kick from a pony Who can disassemble barns with her hooves to the face without flinching, can defeat the Royal Wonderbolts single-handed, can endure multiple high-velocity impacts in a short span without noticeable personal harm, can bathe in lava, and make ponies run in screaming terror.

Seems relevant.


[quote]Individually, I reckon Discord or Celestia could take dragons one on one no problem. I see them having serious problems facing a dozen or more.

And again, the dragons are older than the sun[quote]

And again, you gotta be careful with that kind of conjecture coming across as fact. It opens up possibilities for conjecture o the other end as well

and bathe in molten lava. What is Celestia going to do to them? Crash the sun into the planet? I'm not convinced that would meaningfully hurt the dragons.

Exhaust, confuse and demoralize. It's remarkably effective.
The downside is she would be playing the hero while savage beasts try to kill her. Luckily, it's easily surmisable from the speed and size of both as displayed that no more than two dragons could fight Celestia at once, and two she could handle. Likewise, dragons are anomie ally displayed as lacking the patience to bother coordinating; it's not like the remaining ten from the dozen are also deciding to tag-team her while the first pair gets exhausted. Dragons have a distinct air of either kill it or dismiss it entirely.

This is a far more likely and effective way to deal with dragons: Engineer a civil war through puppeteering and hypnotism.

Interestingly, while Discord's demonstrated a great deal of environmental control and magical effects we don't actually know his physical abilities. For all we know, he's vulnerable to being set on fire. For all we know, dragons are highly resistant to magic. For all we know, Discord can't block twelve simultaneous flame blasts. Insufficient data.

Discord is probably very vulnerable to being set on fire. But you're not attributing the opposition the intelligence they've displayed. If he decides to block twelve firebursts instead of dissapearing? He's playing the chump. That is just insulting.

[Lix Lorn]

It's been over what, two weeks? And I still can't think of a valid response for this thread. Hay, even Thanqol switched to an egg beater!

You make sure I'm happy of course!
(slasher smile)

So

The only question left, and I ask this in all honesty

Did you know, before the Disney world trip, that you guys were related? Did Ido ever comment about this Amish guy he knew on some forum some where that AmishPirate would probably get along with?

pffft I never even though of that

Nah, see, this totally works.

preeetty sure I made that joke at the time :P

[Soras Teva Gee]

Well, we know that now. For science!

You could mean prove time travel, but stable time loops are merely the logical result of time travel.

Because if you change the past then logically you already changed the past thus having created the future. Only way to time travel without creating a logical paradox. Or magical hand waves.

(I don't consider the many worlds options actually time travel since to make any sort of sense if all possiblities exist then they must have always existed. This is more a philosophical objection though)

However one could arguably demonstrate for sure that one could not create an ontological paradox in a stable time loop the basics of logic suggests you would never succeed anyways.

[MCerberus]

However one could arguably demonstrate for sure that one could not create an ontological paradox in a stable time loop the basics of logic suggests you would never succeed anyways.

I'm of a mind that the universe by and large just doesn't care about it. You've already pretty well started stomping on the law of conservation so why should it really matter if you're not born. The 'you' that just killed your grandfather still has its own perspective of linear events, it just won't repeat now that you've screwed with time.

[Pokonic]

[color="darkgreen"]


Man, what is it with you evil people and 'darkness' and 'ruling' and 'forever'? You could seriously have all that and more by just relaxing on the whole conquest thing and making some friends.

....Err, well, how many people on the side of "Shiny happy fun land" would like a takeover of whats basicly a very small country? Ruling is far better than the alternitive, which is no one ruling at all. Also, darkness is stylish. So is dark purple, but thats beyond the point. Also, Forever is better than Never, and sounds better than A Long Time.

[Forum Explorer]

I haven't followed this, so this is me coming in fresh from the street, so to speak.

Spoiler

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I'd have Twilight appear to give the problem a little thought before offering her solution. Have her look thoughtful for a while, scratch her chin or something.

Also, your explanation of why the spell failed fails to impress me. "I gave it too much power" is not a very interesting explanation if you ask me. Maybe try to think of some arcane and out-of-this-world explanation. Maybe something silly, perhaps look at Granny Smith's rituals surrounding Zap Apples. Maybe the spell failed because it was used on an old doll, maybe the doll was feeling neglected after being stuffed in a box for who knows how long and this caused the spell to grow out of proportions... or whatever you feel makes sense to your story.

I couldn't really think of a fancy reason that wasn't unnecessarily complex and confusing. Also I thought that the simpler reason was funnier.

I'd say either write out the whole letter, or leave out the ending too. It sticks out as it is here.

Heh, I actually originally had the whole letter there. It didn't really add anything that hasn't already been said so it was cut down to just the ending.


There is a strange disconnect between Twilight calmly finishing her book and then a moment later she has her Heurika moment. She's all calmly putting the book down and stretching, Spike shows up, and suddenly she's excited and dancing. I'd make the excitement clear from the start, maybe let her have it in the middle of the book too instead of making her finish the whole book first, just so it's clear that she's had a sudden realization. More interesting that way.

Ah, I kinda see your point. Or rather I see how I failed to get my point across. It wasn't supposed to be an Eureka moment as much as celebrating finishing her research.

Should that "be" be there? Or is it meant to be "why would you want to be a test pony?" or something like that?



The "x" makes me think of shipping, but in an OOC kind of way if that makes sense. I'd use "Octavia & Scratch Productions" or "Octavia Scratch Productions", because it feels more in-universe that way.

I can't remember what I was thinking here but I think it was meant to be a subtle joke perhaps?

"and were now simply having a good time" sounds better to me. Minor thing.

Good idea

An "it" in there that probably shouldn't be there. Also "it's" or "it is" not "its" in this case



"do that", missing "do".



No idea at first who was speaking there. Became clear from the context of AJ's next line, but this is a general problem I had throughout the story. Try to always make it clear who's speaking, either through idiomatic speech like Rarity's "darling" or RD's frequent use of "awesome" (you do this, but not always, and it's not always the best way), or by adding "Rainbow Dash said" and similar wordings in the right places.

Right I'll try and clean that up a little

Try to be wary of the word "suddenly". It's alright in infrequent use, but whenever you can get away without it you probably should. It's kinda superfluous in this case, because the "before she could ...." already conveys the same thing.

Good point

An extraneous "you" in there. Also maybe use "since" instead of "because". And should be "closed" not "close", typo there.







"you're" or "you are", not "your"

Also look out for punctuation like commas. I'm terrible at this myself, but I noticed several places where a comma would be nice or where an end quote was missing.



Fluttershy became a unicorn and can float things? :)

She asked the glass nicely Good catch thanks

Returning to the topic of commas, this is an example of where I'd suggest adding a comma after "Fluttershy said".



Trixie out of nowhere, didn't expect her, so I was first thinking of Lyra and was kinda confused. I think it might work better to simply say Trixie here, or maybe add some little extra clue other than her color.

Considering a line or two later I tell you who she is I think its fine.

I really liked this for some reason :) I can just imagine Trixie sitting there outside Twilight's door, waiting patiently.

Glad you liked it!


Twilight is the one speaking, but the quote is followed by the name Applejack. Try to avoid that. If a name follows a quote it's usually because that person is the one speaking, and when it's not - as here - it creates a brief confusion and breaks the flow of reading.

Good point

Very surprising, thought she would challenge Twi. Surprises are good, but here I would really consider doing something grand and spectacular. This is The Great and Powerful Trixie we're talking about, there's no way she's just going to say "I love you, Twilight!" She'd jump out and write it in big fiery letters across the sky or something silly and romantic like that instead. She'd spend weeks just trying to make that first moment as spectacular as possible.


Oh don't worry. The grand and spectacular stunts shall happen. Just not yet.

Some nice things here, and the story seems to be developing in an interesting direction. Keep it up.

Thank you very much for your help.

[Ravian]

(I don't consider the many worlds options actually time travel since to make any sort of sense if all possiblities exist then they must have always existed. This is more a philosophical objection though)

I prefer to think of time as a tree, branching off in infinite directions with each possibility that occurs. Meanwhile our timeline is like a vine crawling up the tree up a single path.

To time travel would be to prune the vine at a certain point and try to lead it up another course.

I remember something from the golden compass books describing the other words as where on one the coin is heads another is tails and a third is on its side.

So essentially yes I believe that these other worlds do already exist, it is merely a process of traveling up this tree based on random chance and probability of what factors fall into place

[Soras Teva Gee]

I'm of a mind that the universe by and large just doesn't care about it. You've already pretty well started stomping on the law of conservation so why should it really matter if you're not born. The 'you' that just killed your grandfather still has its own perspective of linear events, it just won't repeat now that you've screwed with time.

Conservation of mass/energy is obeyed in a stable, if you leave something in the past it experiences a subjectively greater amount of time but that's nothing that can't be done with relativity anyways. As long it doesn't loop back that's not a problem. And it can't loop back because it would cease to exist from infinite entropy, however because that's a rather meaningless idea it cannot actually occur.

And that's the point for a consistent universe if you go back in time... you have already gone back in time. So if you go back determined to kill your grandfather there are a few results:

1) You fail because you always failed and your failure is one of the many events that lead to your present.

2) You kill your "grandfather" but made a mistake and it was never your grandfather. Granny lied.

3) You kill your grandfather, after he's fathered your parent, and you grew up on stories of how your grampa died young

The last are really just variations of the first. You can't change the past because your efforts were exactly the ones that created your present so every action you do is one you have will done

If time travel exists this is how it will function.

I prefer to think of time as a tree, branching off in infinite directions with each possibility that occurs. Meanwhile our timeline is like a vine crawling up the tree up a single path.

To time travel would be to prune the vine at a certain point and try to lead it up another course.

I remember something from the golden compass books describing the other words as where on one the coin is heads another is tails and a third is on its side.

So essentially yes I believe that these other worlds do already exist, it is merely a process of traveling up this tree based on random chance and probability of what factors fall into place

Problem: If all possibilities exist then how does one distinguish the "true" timeline.

Answer: All possibilities always existed that there is no true course of the multiverse merely the infinite variations.

If by "time travel" one creates another world where did your own past come from. Obviously your own original reality continues exactly as it did to necessitate your existence. And the reality you travel too, conservation does not suggest it simply comes from nothing. Even if one was to suppose it could this is unverifiable since obviously the "new" timeline must operate as if it had an identical past up until the point of divergence.

You simply changed another world own natural evolution, any time travel is merely relative though since you fundamentally are not in your own world anymore.

[Thanqol]

If time travel exists this is how it will function.

I heard of one short story where the Time Travel society's initiation exam was to go back and kill your grandfather, thus freeing your mind from the chains of cause and effect. Your first mission was to spy on your future self, and kill your future self if he was planning to leave the organisation.

[OracleofWuffing]

Well, I'm finally sitting myself down to get to the pony episodes I haven't seen. Looks like here's my "to-do" list for season 1:

Spoiler

Show

Friendship is Magic, Part 1
The Ticket Master
Dragonshy
Bridle Gossip
Swarm of the Century
A Bird in the Hoof
The Cutie Mark Chronicles
Owl's Well That Ends Well
Party of One

I generally like to get the poor stuff out of the way first and save the best for last, so my understanding is to grab Owl's Well That Ends Well first out of those episodes. Fluttershy and Rarity are my favorite non-Derpies, so... Anyone have any other recommendations for out-of-order viewing?

[Forum Explorer]

Well, I'm finally sitting myself down to get to the pony episodes I haven't seen. Looks like here's my "to-do" list for season 1:

Spoiler

Show

Friendship is Magic, Part 1
The Ticket Master
Dragonshy
Bridle Gossip
Swarm of the Century
A Bird in the Hoof
The Cutie Mark Chronicles
Owl's Well That Ends Well
Party of One

I generally like to get the poor stuff out of the way first and save the best for last, so my understanding is to grab Owl's Well That Ends Well first out of those episodes. Fluttershy and Rarity are my favorite non-Derpies, so... Anyone have any other recommendations for out-of-order viewing?

Go for whatever order you like the best. Really it doesn't matter much, but if you are saving best for last leave Party of One and Dragonshy for last.



By the way what is the story behind the old MASK WILL BE MINE! thing that happened in ponythreads of old?

[Thanqol]

By the way what is the story behind the old MASK WILL BE MINE! thing that happened in ponythreads of old?

Well, Raz_Fox had a tendency to kidnap Metal Mask, and she had a tendency to escape, so he developed a toretts-like speech quirk where any plan had to be ended with a declaration of intent.

As to why Mask got kidnapped so much, well -

Spoiler

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- She's kinda pretty.

[SiuiS]

What, no mention of the guild, Chairsmaster? One would begin to think you regret your position.

[Thanqol]

What, no mention of the guild, Chairsmaster? One would begin to think you regret your position.

Guild of Chains (2011-present)

The Guild of Chains bills itself as a political lobby but in reality is more a kidnapping themed criminal group, staffed primarily with the unwitting dupes drawn in by Raz_Fox's charisma. The Guild's official reason for existing is to influence Congress to, and I quote from the Guild's constitution, "Pass legislation ensuring all fire-haired ponies be reprimanded to the dungeon forthwith", and it's actual reason for existing is so that Raz_Fox can siphon funds from aforementioned dupes to finance his madcap schemes and claim he was just 'exercising the will of a legitimate business entity' when incarcerated for his crimes.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Conservation of mass/energy is obeyed in a stable, if you leave something in the past it experiences a subjectively greater amount of time but that's nothing that can't be done with relativity anyways. As long it doesn't loop back that's not a problem. And it can't loop back because it would cease to exist from infinite entropy, however because that's a rather meaningless idea it cannot actually occur.

And that's the point for a consistent universe if you go back in time... you have already gone back in time. So if you go back determined to kill your grandfather there are a few results:

1) You fail because you always failed and your failure is one of the many events that lead to your present.

2) You kill your "grandfather" but made a mistake and it was never your grandfather. Granny lied.

3) You kill your grandfather, after he's fathered your parent, and you grew up on stories of how your grampa died young

The last are really just variations of the first. You can't change the past because your efforts were exactly the ones that created your present so every action you do is one you have will done

If time travel exists this is how it will function.

Not quite. The timelines exist constantly, true, but time moves forward at a fixed rate. If you travel back in time (into your own 'verse) and kill your grandfather, you - the you that created (or stole) the time machine and went back in time to kill his own grandfather - cease to exist. But the you that is already here, in the past, just finished preventing his own birth? Ontological inertia. Your physical body will not disappear just because it shouldn't logically exist. Whatever process brought you here has already ensured that you appear, essentially that point becomes the point of your birth, governed by local probabilities. That there is no event in a future timeline of this same universe that causes this event to happen has no effect on it. I'll elaborate in the next section.

Problem: If all possibilities exist then how does one distinguish the "true" timeline.

Answer: All possibilities always existed that there is no true course of the multiverse merely the infinite variations.

There is indeed no "true" timeline, however there is something that is colloquially referred to as the "prime" timeline. All events that occur have a certain probability, so while the probability of you spontaneously combusting or spontaneously developing superpowers is vanishingly small, certain courses of action and random occurences have a much higher chance of occuring. Timelines (I refer to each individual variant as a "multiworld") tend to join together when they are identical due to quantum waveform collapse, and the timeline containing the most probable sequence of events ends up having the most energy. This most energetic timeline is the "prime". It has no particular importance except being the de-facto "base" for the universe at large, though, and perhaps acting as a rough indicator of the "size" of a given multiverse segment at a given point in time.

If by "time travel" one creates another world where did your own past come from. Obviously your own original reality continues exactly as it did to necessitate your existence. And the reality you travel too, conservation does not suggest it simply comes from nothing. Even if one was to suppose it could this is unverifiable since obviously the "new" timeline must operate as if it had an identical past up until the point of divergence.

You simply changed another world own natural evolution, any time travel is merely relative though since you fundamentally are not in your own world anymore.

One does not create another world by time-travelling. One simply assumes the identity of another being that had in some way come to being in an already existing world. Energy and mass cannot be "sent" across universes, and likewise through time as well (except by natural means). However, given the infinite-variance Multiverse, it is possible to find an exact multiworld where what you need to happen happens, using principles not unlike quantum entanglement to "see" into the universe you're targeting. The whole thing with time travel is incredibly convoluted, but in practice it can be made surprisingly straightforward, if not necessarily pleasant. Remember that you do not in any case "travel". Even incredibly advanced (or showy) devices like "portals" that let you see into the destination and walk through them like a door essentially do the same thing as bulky lead-sealed refrigerator-like transporters. The object to be sent is analyzed, and the infinite-variance Multiverse supplies the observers with the timeline "branch" where this exact object appears at the required time. If the object is unlucky, the analyzing process disintegrates it. "Looking into" universes similar to one's own is easier due to the aforementioned principle of waveform collapse, similar universes tend to be "closer" and require less effort to locate, and with the vast amounts of worlds with superficial differences abound, any machine working on the right principles will first and foremost locate a world not unlike the one it's situated in. From the located point, it's only a matter of finding the right "path". The analysis of the object provides the data necessary to locate this path. The actual mechanics of how this works are rather convoluted, and can be achieved by a variety of methods, leading to the plethora of variants for a "time machine".

tl;dr: You're fundamentally right, except no new worlds are "created", they are always there, and no "travel" happens in any shape or form, only manipulation of perceived probability and event synchronization across universes.

[Aotrs Commander]

]

Thing is, these things are of the traditinal sort. Elder blasphemies from the lowest pits of time and space and all that jazz. Heck, I am not entirly sure that they where ever "alive", because there less uber-evil abominations so much as sentinent darkness. As such, there the sort who wishes for a proper summoning. Foul chanting in the blackest tounges, a lightless chamber next too a underground lake in the deepest of caverns, I am sure a lich like you could respect eons-old tradition.

There only happy when there latest summoner is almost the same person from a few centuries ago, even if his voice is different and stuff like that. Thankfuly there beyond such things like "gender" and "generations", but it gets slightly embarrassing when the shadow-spirit calls my assistant "Him", even if she is plainly showing off her tasteful low-top (she got the wrong memo: devil summoning 101 is on fridays). Of course, when it all went south I remembered that the fastest way to a Elder Spirit is into the state that is known as it's tummy, and the next assistant always got his memos.

.....

Heh, I rambled there, didn't I? Well, the main thing is that anyone not in the time standered "uniform" gets them annoyed, and the original creatures who contacted them never wrote down there method for getting the mood right. Sometimes, I wish my Goddess could send her greatest servents a note about the whole thing, but what can a single ghoul do.....

Eh, I'm very much in the Ponder Stibbons school of thought on this. Use the best and most efficient tool for the job. A lot of these elder entities want to cling to tradition because they can't get it around their heads that the universe has moved on, and that their static level of power is now exceeded, and refuse to see that you can't keep things they way they always were forever.

It's why most powerful creatures, so dangerous in a fantasy environment, don't really worry me. Dragons are hard, yes (though nowhere near as hard as Thanqol would have us believe), when you've only got a sword and a low-thuam spell to deal with it. When you've got a machine gun, or an anti-starfighter missile or a Lightning Bolt that is basically an anti-tank spell - not so much. Dragons have neither ECM, nor shields, nor any armour to speak of incomparison. It's why I don't have any fear of say Cthulu, who's preported power mainly comes from the game mythos (where they had to make him uber, because if you didn't players like me would have found a way to kill him) - but in the end, he got taken down by a steamship, and that wouldn't even take down ME. (Not too mention that, his main thing was his madness aura - and even considering that didn't affect everyone, I'm immune to it anyway.) Cthulu is all about the hopelessness of man verses monstrous creatures who can crush them like a bug - it changes your perspective a bit when you ARE one of those monstrous creatures...

But I digress.

Our magic is advanced as our technology. Our Lightning Bolt (which is a point attack spell, rather than D&D's area effect spell) is more advanced, robust and much more efficient in terms of mana to damage output than the it's early predessors.

And that's why shouldn't put too much faith in elder creatures, because you can probably manage with technology (or magic and technology if you know the right people, and the Aotrs are always prepared to do you a dirty deal) pretty much anything they could give you.

Conservation of mass/energy is obeyed in a stable, if you leave something in the past it experiences a subjectively greater amount of time but that's nothing that can't be done with relativity anyways. As long it doesn't loop back that's not a problem. And it can't loop back because it would cease to exist from infinite entropy, however because that's a rather meaningless idea it cannot actually occur.

And that's the point for a consistent universe if you go back in time... you have already gone back in time. So if you go back determined to kill your grandfather there are a few results:

1) You fail because you always failed and your failure is one of the many events that lead to your present.

2) You kill your "grandfather" but made a mistake and it was never your grandfather. Granny lied.

3) You kill your grandfather, after he's fathered your parent, and you grew up on stories of how your grampa died young

The last are really just variations of the first. You can't change the past because your efforts were exactly the ones that created your present so every action you do is one you have will done

If time travel exists this is how it will function.

Aotrs science has ascertained that unless you are in a very rare area of mutable time (usually due to the presense of a specific type of high-magic, but not always), you simply cannot change the future. The more you try to change the more things will go wrong to prevent it - to the point where it will eventually just kill youor destroy you, as you become the release point for all the potential energy of the ENTIRE UNIVERSE that trying to change the timeline would unleash. However, in practise, you never get that far, because you'd simply flat-out fail long before then. This is what we term Timelock. (Which is not the same as "timelocked" as in Doctor Who and predates that show's usage.)

In short terms, if you try to assassinate your grandfather, you will be run over, your time machine will break down, your gun will go off and shot you in the foot and so on and so on until, if you persist in trying, you will be simply killed outright.

Now, there is something that says that while you can't change visible history, you can change it such that only the visible, i.e. recorded part is true. (Technically, this isn't "changing" history, since it always would have been that way.) Doing this is extremely dangerous, however, as you run the risk of timelock.

But this is why even the really high tech races don't mess about with time-travel, because most of the universe isn't an area of mutable time and so it's extremely dangerous.

Not to mention there are a few entities - well one at least - I know of that are flat-out immune to changes in the timestream, so even if you did manage it somehow, they would KNOW and they would come looking, and they make me look like a first-level commoner with six stats of 3.



It's also worth nothing that even in areas of mutable time, changes tend not to be very persistant - if you do change time, you can almost certainly garentee that some band of heroes or somesuch will come along and somehaow manage to change it back. And that big events (e.g. WW2) will tend to happen one way or another, in one form or another, even if you eliminate some of casual aspects (see: Red Alert 1). This phenominon is termed historical inertia.