Magic: The Gathering XIII: What A Horrible Night To Have An Enchantment- Curse

[The-Mage-King]

What's a good way to make EDH decks in Cockatrice? I can't find an option for EDH or any other format in the deck editor.

Make your general be in the sideboard, and build a 99 card deck. That's about it.

[Cogwheel]

So, a friend of mine has requested that I make a decklist for him on Cockatrice. A rather tricky one.

UR burn for multiplayer (3-player matches), using blue almost entirely as a way to draw more burn spells. Should be relatively fast, though he's willing to sacrifice some speed for staying power (I.E. not running out of steam quite as fast). And ideally - though this is optional if it's really not doable - it will also be creatureless. Which leaves out some nice ideas like Gelectrode, pingers with Curiosity, Kiln Fiend and Wee Dragonauts.

I don't play much in the way of burn and never had any luck making a UR deck work at the best of times, so this is a rather tall order. Help would be much appreciated.

[Duos]

So, a friend of mine has requested that I make a decklist for him on Cockatrice. A rather tricky one.

UR burn for multiplayer (3-player matches), using blue almost entirely as a way to draw more burn spells. Should be relatively fast, though he's willing to sacrifice some speed for staying power (I.E. not running out of steam quite as fast). And ideally - though this is optional if it's really not doable - it will also be creatureless. Which leaves out some nice ideas like Gelectrode, pingers with Curiosity, Kiln Fiend and Wee Dragonauts.

I don't play much in the way of burn and never had any luck making a UR deck work at the best of times, so this is a rather tall order. Help would be much appreciated.

Storm something or another. Draw deck, cast deck, melt faces off with Grapeshot and Ignite Memories.

[Lord Seth]

There is one immediate problem I see with this deck: 82 cards is too much. The standard minimum deck size is 60 (it differs in some formats, such as Commander/EDH, but 60 is how it works for most formats), and there's a reason the best decks almost never have more than that many cards in their deck: consistency. Fewer cards means you have a higher chance of getting cards you want. Undoubtedly there are cards in particular you're always happy to draw, but the more cards in your deck, the lower the chance you'll get them. Cut the excesses and bring it down to 60.

[Fable Wright]

So, a friend of mine has requested that I make a decklist for him on Cockatrice. A rather tricky one.

UR burn for multiplayer (3-player matches), using blue almost entirely as a way to draw more burn spells. Should be relatively fast, though he's willing to sacrifice some speed for staying power (I.E. not running out of steam quite as fast). And ideally - though this is optional if it's really not doable - it will also be creatureless. Which leaves out some nice ideas like Gelectrode, pingers with Curiosity, Kiln Fiend and Wee Dragonauts.

I don't play much in the way of burn and never had any luck making a UR deck work at the best of times, so this is a rather tall order. Help would be much appreciated.

First- 4 Lightning Bolts. They always go in the deck. ALWAYS. Next, 4 Staggershock, because they have immense value. Two creatures for 3, or burn face for 4 for 3, or a mix between. And then you can get busy. First, I recommend 4 Snapcaster Mage, 4 Brimstone Volley. Snapcaster Mage is amazing with the deck, flashing in for 2, and setting off another 4 damage with Staggershock, or chumping and setting off a Brimstone Volley. That it flashed back. Next, card advantage- if Ancestral Recall is off the table, try Deep Analysis. It's really good. Two cards for 4, and then flashback for 2 so you can use the business spells you just drew. I also recommend Arc Trail, Slagstorm, and Pyroclasm, because they just kill creatures. Char and Psionic blast (total of 6) work nicely, and Remand is a nice little cantripping spell that keeps you alive while keeping your hand full. Then proceed to fill out the deck with 4 Fireblasts and as many lightning bolts as will fit (Such as lava spike, shard volley, chain lightning, etc).

[Lord Seth]

So, a friend of mine has requested that I make a decklist for him on Cockatrice. A rather tricky one.

UR burn for multiplayer (3-player matches), using blue almost entirely as a way to draw more burn spells.

Isn't that a contradiction right from the start? The whole point of a burn deck--especially a creatureless one as was requested--is to kill your one opponent as swiftly as possible with your burn spells. Burn in a multiplayer game is like trying to shoot two targets with one arrow. Your resources are too divided to work well.

If they still want to go through with it, I also don't think that splashing blue for card drawing is a great idea. I think passive cards like Howling Mine or Anvil of Bogarden would be better choices. You'll also probably want some board sweepers like Volcanic Fallout and Earthquake so you can be hitting all opponents (and their creatures) at the same time.

EDIT: Actually, there is a good blue card for this: Rhystic Study. It's not as consistent as the Mine or Anvil and costs more, but it doesn't give your opponents advantage and is actually more powerful in multiplayer as there are more players to potentially feed you cards with it.

[flabort]

Can you cast a spell (like an instant) in response to a spell you control?
Say an instant had the text "Cast only in response to target instant or sorcery you control. That spell...", where some effect comes in place of the "...", would it be legal to play at all?

So you play a spell, say Lightning Bolt. You then play one of these spells that says "...gains Flashback X, where X is it's mana cost, until the end of the turn."

Would that mean you can effectively cast 2 lightning bolts, for a net {U}{R}{R}, for 2 cards (Exiling one afterwards)?

So the example card's complete text would be "Cast only in response to target instant or sorcery you control. That spell gains Flashback X, where X is it's mana cost, until the end of the turn." I would guess it would cost {U}, since Snapcaster Mage is This On a Stick, but that seems rather... cheap.

[Suedars]

Storm something or another. Draw deck, cast deck, melt faces off with Grapeshot and Ignite Memories.

I'd recommend not running Storm. Storm is very good at dealing exactly 20 damage as early as turn 3. Add even 5 life to that and it starts getting pushed back a turn or two. Make it 40 life and now you're going off on turn 8.

Generally burn is the worst archetype in a multiplayer game since trading cards for damage is ok when you only need 7 cards to kill them. If you need 12+ it becomes way, way worse. Especially since it's going to take you longer to kill people meaning you might have to use some burn on creatures, putting you even further from winning.

[Nerocite]

So, a friend of mine has requested that I make a decklist for him on Cockatrice. A rather tricky one.

UR burn for multiplayer (3-player matches), using blue almost entirely as a way to draw more burn spells. Should be relatively fast, though he's willing to sacrifice some speed for staying power (I.E. not running out of steam quite as fast). And ideally - though this is optional if it's really not doable - it will also be creatureless. Which leaves out some nice ideas like Gelectrode, pingers with Curiosity, Kiln Fiend and Wee Dragonauts.

I don't play much in the way of burn and never had any luck making a UR deck work at the best of times, so this is a rather tall order. Help would be much appreciated.

I don't know about multiplayer, but my friend had a UR Pyromancer Ascension deck that was creatureless, and quite strong.

[Suedars]

Can you cast a spell (like an instant) in response to a spell you control?
Say an instant had the text "Cast only in response to target instant or sorcery you control. That spell...", where some effect comes in place of the "...", would it be legal to play at all?

So you play a spell, say Lightning Bolt. You then play one of these spells that says "...gains Flashback X, where X is it's mana cost, until the end of the turn."

Would that mean you can effectively cast 2 lightning bolts, for a net {U}{R}{R}, for 2 cards (Exiling one afterwards)?

So the example card's complete text would be "Cast only in response to target instant or sorcery you control. That spell gains Flashback X, where X is it's mana cost, until the end of the turn." I would guess it would cost {U}, since Snapcaster Mage is This On a Stick, but that seems rather... cheap.

Snapcaster lets you flashback something you cast 3 turns ago which is much stronger than this. This effect is generally going to be way worse than something like Twincast. U isn't too god a cost at all.

[Suedars]

I don't know about multiplayer, but my friend had a UR Pyromancer Ascension deck that was creatureless, and quite strong.

Pyro Ascension is probably the best way to go here. It lets you combo off instead of burning people out fairly, but also doesn't have to wait till it can do all its damage in a single turn like storm does.

[Binks]

Can you cast a spell (like an instant) in response to a spell you control?

Yes. Before the stack is cleared (and the effects on it trigger) all players get a chance to cast new spells and activate new abilities. You can Bolt, Cast another Instant, then Bolt without ever clearing the stack if you want.

Say an instant had the text "Cast only in response to target instant or sorcery you control. That spell...", where some effect comes in place of the "...", would it be legal to play at all?

Short answer, yes. Long answer, yes but it probably wouldn't be templated that way. Just having 'target instant or sorcery spell' on it is enough to restrict it to only being cast when there's something on the stack, something like 'Target Instant or Sorcery Spell you control...' is a simpler way to template it.

So you play a spell, say Lightning Bolt. You then play one of these spells that says "...gains Flashback X, where X is it's mana cost, until the end of the turn."

Now here's the tricky part. I'm not 100% sure but I think the spell would lose the effect as soon as it hit the graveyard...and you can't flashback from the stack. You would need something like 'When that card is put in a graveyard it gains Flashback X...' to make this work I think.

So the example card's complete text would be "Cast only in response to target instant or sorcery you control. That spell gains Flashback X, where X is it's mana cost, until the end of the turn." I would guess it would cost {U}, since Snapcaster Mage is This On a Stick, but that seems rather... cheap.

"When target instant or sorcery you control is put in a graveyard it gains Flashback X where X is its mana cost, until the end of the turn." Generally you don't see 'cast in response to' on MtG cards since having to target a spells is enough of a restriction. The handling of flashback is tricky, since you need to give it to the card after it hits the graveyard, not before.

Costing something like this would be tricky I would think. U or 1U or UU would be the best costs. UU is reasonable, if a bit pricy, as it's basically twincast with an extra 'exile that spell' tacked on to it. 1U is snapcaster price, but is also probably the most reasonable. U works, but is a bit cheap for this sort of effect as it's basically just turning the current card into a copy of the one you're copying.

That said the effect is significantly weaker than snapcaster's version as it doesn't let you surprise your opponent. If you counter one of their spells and cast this on the counterspell they know whatever they cast next gets countered. Snapcaster, on the other hand, can come out of nowhere. So U might be fair since you're giving away information (though if the targeted card is, say, bolt, then who cares?) and risking a 2-for-1 (oh you're going to target that spell with another spell? Cancel. You lose both spells, no flashback for you).

[flabort]

OK... Howabout {1}{R/U} for the spell, using Bink's suggested wording?
I've been lurking the Salvation boards, and saw a {2/R} symbol in the create your own card section. There was also a {PR} symbol on a nearby card, so I know they're not one and the same. What if it cost {2/U}?

Also, I have an idea for one that grants Rebound until after your next upkeep (since that's when rebound resolves?), one that causes a single-target burn spell to do 2 more damage, be able to target 2 targets, and exile destroyed targets (very red), and one that causes a burn spell targeting creatures to also hurt their controllers, for half as much as the creature took.

Yeah, I'm trying to create Magic cards that function like D&D metamagic feats. Perhaps they'd have a subtype to emphasize that.

Edit:

Spoiler

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{2/B}{2/U}
Instant - Meta
When target instant or sorcery you control resolves, exile it. You may cast it from exile during your next upkeep without paying it's mana cost.
"Take this... Again!"

{2/U}
Instant - Meta
When target instant or sorcery you control is put in a graveyard it gains Flashback X where X is its mana cost, until the end of the turn. (You can cast that spell from your graveyard for it's flashback cost, if you do exile it after it resolves).

{2/R}{R}
Instant - Meta
Target instant or sorcery you control that damages a single target deals 2 more damage. The spell's damage may be divided with another target as you choose, though it must be normally legal to target with that spell. If either target is destroyed, exile them.

{2/R}{2/R}
Instant - Meta
When target instant or sorcery you control deals damage to a creature, it's controller takes damage equal to half the damage that creature took.

[tgva8889]

So, a friend of mine has requested that I make a decklist for him on Cockatrice. A rather tricky one.

UR burn for multiplayer (3-player matches), using blue almost entirely as a way to draw more burn spells. Should be relatively fast, though he's willing to sacrifice some speed for staying power (I.E. not running out of steam quite as fast). And ideally - though this is optional if it's really not doable - it will also be creatureless. Which leaves out some nice ideas like Gelectrode, pingers with Curiosity, Kiln Fiend and Wee Dragonauts.

I don't play much in the way of burn and never had any luck making a UR deck work at the best of times, so this is a rather tall order. Help would be much appreciated.

Since you can't play creatures, you'll need to play some strong defenses. Cards like Propaganda and War Tax are pretty good, but you can go further. How about AEther Flash? Invoke Prejudice? Isolation Cell and Soul Barrier are both annoying and on-theme. Meishin, the Mind Cage is a true defense, though you can also play Ensnaring Bridge and go the other way.

From there, pick any repeatable way to deal damage to opponents. Hammer of Bogardan is not that terrible, and if you've got the game on lockdown you can afford to be a bit slow. Some other useful burn spells for the multiplayer-inclined are Flame Rift and Sizzle. Sulfiric Vortex also fits the bill. Various kinds of Earthquake effects should also be explored. Pyrohemia is, for example, a truly annoying one. Planeswalkers also make great win conditions: I'm sure you can find some worthy Planeswalkers to use in such a deck. *coughChandracough*

My suggestion is to ignore his desire for "speed" if you plan to go the "traditional route" of actually killing them with individual spells like Lightning Bolt. It is better to play a slow controlling route, lock them game up with a card like Meishin and Pyrohemia, then slowly grind everyone out a few points at a time (like with Sulfuric Vortex, which is awesome and you should play it in your deck anyways) and/or build up to a giant explosion like Earthquake. These builds seem like the most likely for a UR Multiplayer Burn deck, as without creatures it is almost impossible for you to mount any early offense. Like, actually impossible. Because you will run out of cards, and your ability to draw more cards will not outweigh this fact. Burn spells work because they have creatures. Not playing any creatures and also having to deal more than 20 damage is a tall order, especially since not having creatures is likely to cause you to take extra damage because you are "defenseless" and people will attack you because "that guy has creatures and can block."

On top of the wacky routes already suggested, you could play lots of cards like Howling Mine and defeat people with various punishing cards like Ebony Owl Netsuke or Sudden Imapct. I hear Cerebral Vortex is a flexible and useful card in such decks. And also in general, depending on your metagame. Though I imagine some kind of combo-ish deck is not what your friend is looking for.

Can you cast a spell (like an instant) in response to a spell you control?
Say an instant had the text "Cast only in response to target instant or sorcery you control. That spell...", where some effect comes in place of the "...", would it be legal to play at all?

So you play a spell, say Lightning Bolt. You then play one of these spells that says "...gains Flashback X, where X is it's mana cost, until the end of the turn."

Would that mean you can effectively cast 2 lightning bolts, for a net {U}{R}{R}, for 2 cards (Exiling one afterwards)?

So the example card's complete text would be "Cast only in response to target instant or sorcery you control. That spell gains Flashback X, where X is it's mana cost, until the end of the turn." I would guess it would cost {U}, since Snapcaster Mage is This On a Stick, but that seems rather... cheap.

Yes, you can play spells in response to your own spells. Once any player casts a spell, priority changes in AP-NAP order. Thus, immediately after you cast Shock, you can retain priority and cast, say, Increasing Vengeance on it immediately afterward, before your opponent can do anything in response.

Giving a spell on the stack Flashback doesn't do anything. Once the spell leaves the stack, it would become a new object. Presuming it went to the graveyard, it would no longer have Flashback, since it's not the same object as the card on the stack that resolved that you gave Flashback. Flashback only does stuff on cards in the graveyard, which is why Recoup and Snapcaster Mage work.

Edit: If you're trying to replicate Metamagic, they kind of have a way to do that. It's called Splice. If you were going to truly represent use of a metamagic feat (increasing spell level, or mana cost, of a spell in order to have it do more/better whatever), using Splice might be the best way. The card that is the best example of this use of Splice is Evermind.

The mana symbol (2/R) is colorless hybrid, a type of mana only used in Shadowmoor on 6 cards, a cycle and Reaper King.

Edit2: The correct wording of the card under discussion in your quote above would be:

The next time target instant or sorcery spell you control would be put into a graveyard, it gains flashback until end of turn. The flashback cost is equal to its mana cost. (Mana cost includes color.)

[Frankelshtein]

So if anyone remembers the Modern deck I was building, I finally got around to throwing a decklist together online. So without further ado...

Link: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/unlif...-silly-things/

Text:

Spoiler

Show

Creature (7)
4x Death's Shadow
3x Wall of Omens

Enchantment (17)
4x Ghostly Prison
4x Phyrexian Arena
1x Greater Auramancy
4x Dark Tutelage
4x Phyrexian Unlife

Sorcery (7)
2x Idyllic Tutor
2x Diabolic Tutor
2x Rite of Consumption
1x Repay in Kind

Instant (4)
4x Ad Nauseam

Land (25)
12x Plains
12x Swamp
1x Marsh Flats

I'd be interested in hearing initial impressions of it, as well as suggestions for improving it. Bear in mind that the current list reflects what cards I have currently, so some aspects (i.e. the mana base) may be far from ideal.

[flabort]

I just noticed Splinter Twin creates a creature with haste; That creature is otherwise a duplicate of the creature that made it. Oh, yes, that includes the fact that it has the tap ability that made it.
Almost pointless, but the infinite combo means so long as the enchantment remains, you have n creatures to block with. Better if the enchanted creature has an ability that doesn't need tapping; you can use it n times. If the creature in question has a ability, even worse!

Yes, you exile the copies afterwards. But since you get as many copies as you want, that is THE most broken red card.

Edit: For funs, another homemade card:

Spoiler

Show

Arcbound Sunmyr - {3}
Artifact Creature - Myr (Mythic Rare)
Modular -- Amplify -- Sunburst
(~ comes into play with X +1/+1 counters for each Myr you reveal in your hand, where X is the number of colors used to pay for ~. When ~ is put into a graveyard, you may put it's +1/+1 counters on target artifact creature.)
-2/-2

@V: RAI or RAW? I'm pretty sure my interpretation is still RAW, even with the current Oracle text. Because the original has it from being enchanted, true, and wouldn't if it wasn't. But the copy has it because the original had it, regardless of origin. If you can point out a ruling that says otherwise, I will concede the point.

@VV: Alright, one of the most broken combo cards. Is that better?

[Suedars]

I just noticed Splinter Twin creates a creature with haste; That creature is otherwise a duplicate of the creature that made it. Oh, yes, that includes the fact that it has the tap ability that made it.
Almost pointless, but the infinite combo means so long as the enchantment remains, you have n creatures to block with. Better if the enchanted creature has an ability that doesn't need tapping; you can use it n times. If the creature in question has a ability, even worse!

Yes, you exile the copies afterwards. But since you get as many copies as you want, that is THE most broken red card.

No, the copies don't have the Splinter Twin ability. You can still go infinite with Deceiver Exarch/Pestermite having all the copies untap the original enchanted creature as they EtB though.

[Lord Seth]

Yes, you exile the copies afterwards. But since you get as many copies as you want, that is THE most broken red card.

That wouldn't cause it to even come close to being the most broken red card.

People need to stop throwing terms like that out on cards that don't deserve them. Reminds me of when I saw someone actually claim that Eureka was one of the "top most broken cards ever."

[tgva8889]

"broken" isn't a word that has a single definition in Magic lingo. For example, Storm is broken in that it makes the game not play like a normal game. It is also broken in that it is more powerful than most other things you can do in Magic. Banding and Phasing are broken in that they don't really function very well as game mechanics. Hand to Hand is arguably broken in that it didn't do what it was designed to do.

"broken" is just a word, and words are unfortunately not accurate. Without definition, you can't say that anyone's use of a word is just wrong.

It is arguable that Splinter Twin is the best Red card, though, considering Red's rather limited selection of ban-worthy good cards. Though it probably isn't, if you look at the history of Red cards.

[memnarch]

...

It is arguable that Splinter Twin is the best Red card, though, considering Red's rather limited selection of ban-worthy good cards. Though it probably isn't, if you look at the history of Red cards.

Out of curiosity, what do you think are red's ban worthy cards?

[Suedars]

Out of curiosity, what do you think are red's ban worthy cards?

Goblin Recruiter

[tgva8889]

I mean, I was going to say Wheel of Fortune as the obvious one. Worldgorger Dragon is also one of the few Red cards to receive a ban both in a tournament constructed format and in Commander, if that's any consolation to anyone.

[Nightson]

Alright, so you have a beatdown green/artifact deck.

Obviously the biggest problem is the size.

We can start by cutting out some cards.

Prophetic Prisim goes because you're running monogreen
Shriekhorn because you aren't milling them or scrying them

That'll cut out 5 cards right there. Obviously more will need to be cut, but those were the most extraneous ones I saw.

So, you're playing a beatdown deck but you have basically no mana acceleration. Cards like Birds of Paradise, Llanowar Elves, Sakura Tribe Elder and Kodoma's Reach are designed to get you to the mana levels needed to cast you big creatures sooner.

Your mana curve is rather off, you've got a whole lot of big creatures with little to no low cost creatures.

Your equipment and spells are largely small straight number boosters without giving special abilities. These don't pair so well with your deck. They pair well with creatures like Garruk's Companion, somewhat well with the big creatures with trample, and not as well with straight up big green nasties.

[Cogwheel]

Thanks for all the help. Will most likely go with tgva's idea, or the flashback-centric one. And yes, I know it's not a great idea, but I still need to work with what I was asked to make.

Again, thanks for the advice. Would be less terse, but I kinda don't have internet for long.


Edit: Thoughts on Norn's Annex? Would ask about Wee Dragonauts too, but he's insisting on staying creatureless. And planeswalker-less, because they're "weird and confusing".

[Lord Seth]

It is arguable that Splinter Twin is the best Red card, though, considering Red's rather limited selection of ban-worthy good cards. Though it probably isn't, if you look at the history of Red cards.

I'm not certain how someone could reasonably argue it being the best. I'm not sure what I would classify as the best Red card, but it wouldn't be Splinter Twin. Better candidates are Sneak Attack, Wheel of Fortune, Goblin Lackey, Goblin Recruiter, Lightning Bolt, Blood Moon, Price of Progress, Burning Wish, Grim Lavamancer, Worldgorger Dragon, or Kird Ape.

[Cogwheel]

I'm not certain how someone could reasonably argue it being the best. I'm not sure what I would classify as the best Red card, but it wouldn't be Splinter Twin. Better candidates are Sneak Attack, Wheel of Fortune, Goblin Lackey, Goblin Recruiter, Lightning Bolt, Blood Moon, Price of Progress, Burning Wish, Grim Lavamancer, Worldgorger Dragon, or Kird Ape.

You forgot this.

FLARG.

[Binks]

If you're trying to replicate Metamagic, they kind of have a way to do that. It's called Splice.

Splice would be a good way to handle most of these cards. Flashback would still need a little funky wording, but 'splice onto instant/sorcery, that spell gets rebound' should work just fine.

I just noticed Splinter Twin creates a creature with haste; That creature is otherwise a duplicate of the creature that made it. Oh, yes, that includes the fact that it has the tap ability that made it.

Sadly, as others have pointed out, it doesn't include the tap ability. Think of copies as basically taking a copy machine and making a physical copy of the targeted card/token then putting that on the battlefield under your control. You get everything on the card, and nothing else, no counter, enchantments, temporary effects on the card, etc.

[Mystic Muse]

What's the problem with worldgorger dragon exactly? He doesn't seem very good.

[arguskos]

What's the problem with worldgorger dragon exactly? He doesn't seem very good.

Here's an easy trick with it:
1. Cast Animate Dead, targeting the Dragon
2. Dragon comes into play, it's ability goes on the stack.
3. The ability resolves, and all my other permanents leave play
4. Since Animate Dead left play, Dragon goes to the graveyard
5. Since the Dragon left play, the land and Animate Dead return to play. Animate Dead triggers, targeting the Dragon.
6. In response to Animate Dead's ability going on the stack, tap the lands for mana.
7. Animate Dead resolves, Dragon comes into play, everything else leaves play.
8. Steps 4-7 repeat endlessly. Your mana pool fills.
9. You can interrupt the sequence to play an instant.

Play something that can make use of infinite mana and kills them at instant speed (the best kill is probably Comet Storm, thanks to Multikicker being deeply hilarious). Profit.

[The Extinguisher]

What's the problem with worldgorger dragon exactly? He doesn't seem very good.

Animate Dead

Infinite combo!