The Proteus (factotumish base class) (3.5) PEACH please

[Empedocles]

I'm starting to homebrew again, and I thought a good place to start would be to bring up some of my old work for PEACHing, and try to improve them. This class is from a while ago, and I'm looking for new thoughts, comments, concerns, etc. and especially new ideas to incorporate that would help me flex my homebrewing muscles.

[Empedocles]

Anybody? Bum-bum-bumpinnnnn

[Maquise]

You might want to add some sort of restriction on the Smite Alignment ability.

[Empedocles]

You might want to add some sort of restriction on the Smite Alignment ability.

What do you mean?

[Maquise]

What do you mean?

Perhaps, they can't pick an alignment to Smite that they have (For example, a good proteus can't smite good).

[Empedocles]

Perhaps, they can't pick an alignment to Smite that they have (For example, a good proteus can't smite good).

Oh, right! Good point.

[Pesimismrocks]

It looks like a great base class but several of the minor powers confuse me. Firstly why can a lawful good character be able to smite law and good but not evil or chaos. Surely he should not be able to smite anyone of the same alignment. Otherwise this power can become quite useless e.g. what use has a good character got to smite another good character; Paladins of Bahumat don't go around smiting clerics of Pelor

Also some of the features like animal companion and familiar shouldn't limited to certain paths. It seems that especially animal companion should be allowed for anyone and this could make some interesting combinations like a cleric with a familiar or a psion with a dinosaur.

Another thing is that spell casting with the druid spell list seems quite underpowered compared to other paths. Perhaps have a nature path with ranger spells and weaker wildshape.

All in all though I love this class. It seems to be a build-your-own class more than a single identifying feature and I think it fits the theme of adventuring jack-of-all trades better than factotum, which I also love.

[Empedocles]

It looks like a great base class but several of the minor powers confuse me. Firstly why can a lawful good character be able to smite law and good but not evil or chaos. Surely he should not be able to smite anyone of the same alignment. Otherwise this power can become quite useless e.g. what use has a good character got to smite another good character; Paladins of Bahumat don't go around smiting clerics of Pelor

Also some of the features like animal companion and familiar shouldn't limited to certain paths. It seems that especially animal companion should be allowed for anyone and this could make some interesting combinations like a cleric with a familiar or a psion with a dinosaur.

Another thing is that spell casting with the druid spell list seems quite underpowered compared to other paths. Perhaps have a nature path with ranger spells and weaker wildshape.

All in all though I love this class. It seems to be a build-your-own class more than a single identifying feature and I think it fits the theme of adventuring jack-of-all trades better than factotum, which I also love.

I guess you're right that the druid spell list is relatively low power, but it's more of a thematic choice, and saying that the druid spell list is underpowered compared to the cleric or wizard spell list is like saying that the great wyrm gold dragon is underpowered compared to a time dragon. They're both crazy strong. One just more so.

I like the idea about the animal companion, but the familiars will stay exclusive since they're often portrayed as incarnations of magical power (witches being told magic by their familiar, etc.)

Overall though glad you like the class

[Jeff the Green]

I'm pretty sure I'm echoing some of the criticisms previously made, but hopefully this is helpful.

• As many of the abilities as possible should be spelled out explicitly so you don't have to reference a zillion books. Sneak attack is a good example; there's no reason to reference spellthief when you can say 1d6 at 1st and an additional 1d6 every four levels thereafter.
• For martial maneuvers and binding, you should specify what your IL and EBL are. I'd recommend making your IL at least more than the standard 1/2 level.
• Does the free skill trick count against the maximum known? Do you have to qualify for it?
• Smite confuses me. So if you're good, you can't smite evil?
• Familiars are available through a feat, so you might want to remove that from the minor powers list.
• Shadowcasting is problematic. Do you get them as SLAs/SUs eventually? Bonus feats from completing paths? Etc.
• Evasion and Improved Evasion are gained a little late for my taste.

Other than those, it looks pretty good to me. I haven't played a character from all the subsystems, so I can't really comment on how balanced the paths are to each other, but it seems okay. Spellcasting/psionics are probably going to be the most powerful 'cause they're, y'know, spellcasting. Still, I like it.

[genericwit]

2 questions:

1) How are spells known handled? The adept automatically knows everything on their list, if you pick the arcane list, do you get all spells in your 3 chosen schools?

2) For the Chakra minor power, are all chakras unlocked with levels, or does the Proteus have to pick one from each category?

By the way, I really like this class.

[Pesimismrocks]

Just one more thing. The fact that arcane based Proteus characters will use wisdom instead of INT/CHA seems a little strange although having WIS as your main stat does seem to fit adventuring in terms of skills: Listen, Spot,Survival.

Also again the fact that a lawful good proteus could only smite either law or good instead of evil or chaos makes no sense to me.

Just wanted to say one more time I love the idea and fluff of this class and the mechanics of a sort of make your own class seem great. I will playtest it in an upcoming oneshot game with my friends.

[Empedocles]

I'm pretty sure I'm echoing some of the criticisms previously made, but hopefully this is helpful.

• As many of the abilities as possible should be spelled out explicitly so you don't have to reference a zillion books. Sneak attack is a good example; there's no reason to reference spellthief when you can say 1d6 at 1st and an additional 1d6 every four levels thereafter.
• For martial maneuvers and binding, you should specify what your IL and EBL are. I'd recommend making your IL at least more than the standard 1/2 level.
• Does the free skill trick count against the maximum known? Do you have to qualify for it?
• Smite confuses me. So if you're good, you can't smite evil?
• Familiars are available through a feat, so you might want to remove that from the minor powers list.
• Shadowcasting is problematic. Do you get them as SLAs/SUs eventually? Bonus feats from completing paths? Etc.
• Evasion and Improved Evasion are gained a little late for my taste.

Other than those, it looks pretty good to me. I haven't played a character from all the subsystems, so I can't really comment on how balanced the paths are to each other, but it seems okay. Spellcasting/psionics are probably going to be the most powerful 'cause they're, y'know, spellcasting. Still, I like it.

2 questions:

1) How are spells known handled? The adept automatically knows everything on their list, if you pick the arcane list, do you get all spells in your 3 chosen schools?

2) For the Chakra minor power, are all chakras unlocked with levels, or does the Proteus have to pick one from each category?

By the way, I really like this class.

Just one more thing. The fact that arcane based Proteus characters will use wisdom instead of INT/CHA seems a little strange although having WIS as your main stat does seem to fit adventuring in terms of skills: Listen, Spot,Survival.

Also again the fact that a lawful good proteus could only smite either law or good instead of evil or chaos makes no sense to me.

Just wanted to say one more time I love the idea and fluff of this class and the mechanics of a sort of make your own class seem great. I will playtest it in an upcoming oneshot game with my friends.

Hey so right now I don't have my rulebooks with me, so for a lot of this stuff I want to read through them before making changes. I'll fix smite though, that was silly of me. Thank you guys SO much for the feedback, and I'll post again as soon as I've decided on how I want to impliment the suggested changes.

[Pesimismrocks]

I just noted that dark knowledge path ability needs a path, and invocations path a path ability.

It also seems possible to pick up two familiars with the minor power and path ability.

Also would it be possible for a dragonfire adept path or minor power (Either breath weapon, breath effects or draconic invocations)? I just love DFAs and I would live a dragon themed character with arcane power and a dragon familiar.