Mass Effect 3.5B: Taste the Rainbow (Story and Ending Discussion; Spoilers!)

[Psyren]

In honor of the title of this thread, I feel the urge to post this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAGzB...Ltc8MtYLYFr0Xg

It's about 20 seconds in, but you should see it.

I could almost have forgiven Bioware for the ending if Star Kid had shouted that when the Crucible fired.

By the way, this was part of my original reply earlier that got eaten - I haven't laughed so hard at anything in days

[Aotrs Commander]

I hate to use this as a justification, I really really do. But I'm going to do it anyway.

EDI might have survived because Joker took the Normandy and went into a mass relay jump ahead of the explosion, thus sparing its crew and the ship itself from the full brunt of the effects (which simultaneously would let EDI survive destroy and makes the actual results of synthesis much less clear since the Normandy crew could be less affected than everything else).

Ugh, I feel kind of dirty using that scene to justify anything.

Frankly, I suspect, until and if the DLC clarifies anything, EDI would appear to survive because Bioware said so, rather than for any sane reason we can conjure up.

Hell, pretty much everything is conjecture at this point, since the ending really told us nothing, as all we can absolutely state is the Reapers have been repulsed/destroyed/assimilated, the Mass Relays have explodinated, Earth may or may not have survived, and the Normandy crashed on some planet somewhere. Everything else is a complete blank, which we can only extrapolate from a source that has no reason to be considered reliable (i.e. the catalyst, which has no reason to tell the truth, may not even be anything more than a VI anyway.)

I'm still half convinced, if we take it all Bioware told us at face value, Shepard never actually got as far as launching the attack on Cerberus HQ, and is stricken with wild hallucinations every time she tries...

[kamikasei]

Honestly I think the problems with the "what does Destroy destroy" question comes down to "the writers (or at least a significant subset of them) have no idea what the hell the words 'synthetic life' mean when they use them". Control is in fact the ending with the most plausible mechanism, which given how vague it is is rather frustrating.

How about you try "let's agree to disagree?"

*tries it*

Nope. It doesn't convey how abhorrent I find what you're saying.

With that abhorrence registered, though, probably best I don't try to address it further because it doesn't seem likely to lead anywhere productive.

[Luzahn]

Honestly I think the problems with the "what does Destroy destroy" question comes down to "the writers (or at least a significant subset of them) have no idea what the hell the words 'synthetic life' mean when they use them". Control is in fact the ending with the most plausible mechanism, which given how vague it is is rather frustrating.

*tries it*

Nope. It doesn't convey how abhorrent I find what you're saying.

With that abhorrence registered, though, probably best I don't try to address it further because it doesn't seem likely to lead anywhere productive.

Bah, that attitude is inefficient. We need to save our hate-energy for more useful things!

[Morty]

On a note unrelated to the ending: I've heard it said here and there that it's "implied" Aria T'Loak is in fact Wrex's old friend Aleena. I haven't seen any hints pointing to it being true though, so I'd like to know if I've missed anything or if it's just happy speculation on the part of the fanbase.

[Dienekes]

On a note unrelated to the ending: I've heard it said here and there that it's "implied" Aria T'Loak is in fact Wrex's old friend Aleena. I haven't seen any hints pointing to it being true though, so I'd like to know if I've missed anything or if it's just happy speculation on the part of the fanbase.

It's some things she mentions. Such as "I've fought krogan before" which is pretty generic admittedly. The one that gets people's suspicions up is "Sometimes it's better to disappear than be forced to kill someone you respect" or something to that affect. Personally though, I think it's because the idea of Aria and Wrex fighting for several days straight to the point that their guns (which shoot out little chunks from a block that are essentially limitless) actually run out of ammo is far too cool to not be true.

[Zevox]

Yeah, I can't really explain EDI being spared.

It does seem to be basically an asspull no matter how you try to slice it, doesn't it? I really don't get that one at all. Don't understand why they'd decide to do it in the first place, really don't understand why they'd keep it at this point. That's almost as nonsensical as the Catalyst himself.

Zevox

[Chen]

tons of star systems wiped out by exploding relays

I see this in a lot of places and didn't once think about it when I saw the relays get destroyed. To me it was fairly evident that the blast of whatever (destroy/control/synthesis) needed some energy to propagate throughout each system in the galaxy. It was only logical it got this energy from the relays and that's why they broke down. It also seemed logical that they wouldn't explode like in Arrival since the energy that WAS there (which destroyed the Batarian system) was used to propagate the Crucible effect throughout the system instead of just being released explosively.

[kamikasei]

On a note unrelated to the ending: I've heard it said here and there that it's "implied" Aria T'Loak is in fact Wrex's old friend Aleena. I haven't seen any hints pointing to it being true though, so I'd like to know if I've missed anything or if it's just happy speculation on the part of the fanbase.

The strongest hint I've heard is that Aria uses the line "better luck next time", which was Aleena's farewell to Wrex. It's still not much, but a little more likely to be more than coincidence than, say, having fought krogan.

There's also the more general fact that we know "Aria T'Loak" is an assumed identity anyway, so it's just a matter of connecting someone who had reason to disappear to someone who at some point was disappeared into.

[Morty]

It's some things she mentions. Such as "I've fought krogan before" which is pretty generic admittedly. The one that gets people's suspicions up is "Sometimes it's better to disappear than be forced to kill someone you respect" or something to that affect. Personally though, I think it's because the idea of Aria and Wrex fighting for several days straight to the point that their guns (which shoot out little chunks from a block that are essentially limitless) actually run out of ammo is far too cool to not be true.

The strongest hint I've heard is that Aria uses the line "better luck next time", which was Aleena's farewell to Wrex. It's still not much, but a little more likely to be more than coincidence than, say, having fought krogan.

There's also the more general fact that we know "Aria T'Loak" is an assumed identity anyway, so it's just a matter of connecting someone who had reason to disappear to someone who at some point was disappeared into.

I can't remember either of those lines. At which points are they spoken?
But yeah, I suppose there's some base for the speculation. Not all that much of course, since the galaxy's a big place and Aleena wasn't the first or last tough Asari who needed to disappear from somewhere.

[Psyren]

*tries it*

Nope. It doesn't convey how abhorrent I find what you're saying.

With that abhorrence registered, though, probably best I don't try to address it further because it doesn't seem likely to lead anywhere productive.

As Shepard would say: "Noted."

I see this in a lot of places and didn't once think about it when I saw the relays get destroyed. To me it was fairly evident that the blast of whatever (destroy/control/synthesis) needed some energy to propagate throughout each system in the galaxy. It was only logical it got this energy from the relays and that's why they broke down. It also seemed logical that they wouldn't explode like in Arrival since the energy that WAS there (which destroyed the Batarian system) was used to propagate the Crucible effect throughout the system instead of just being released explosively.

This. In fact, in every ending sequence (or should I say "the ending sequence?" ) when we are shown the Sol Relay eating the rainbow Crucible-wave and going haywire, it empties its giant... orb-thing right before disintegrating. Since that's the part that actually went supernova in Arrival, it stands to reason that emptying that thing first would result in a much smaller boom.

I can't remember either of those lines. At which points are they spoken?
But yeah, I suppose there's some base for the speculation. Not all that much of course, since the galaxy's a big place and Aleena wasn't the first or last tough Asari who needed to disappear from somewhere.

After you recruit Mordin and Archangel in ME2, do the two sidequests for her - one is gotten from a datapad on the Archangel recruitment, where you read of a plot by the mercs to continue their team-up and go after her next. The second is where you help her resolve the Patriarch situation.

Once you've done those, you can have this conversation with her.

[Xondoure]

RE: endings and Joker. It occurs to me that if he could choose, Joker would have picked Synthesis for more reasons than his new robot girlfriend. If synthesis rewrites every cell in the body, than it's a fair bet he isn't going to be handicapped anymore.

[Derthric]

On a note unrelated to the ending: I've heard it said here and there that it's "implied" Aria T'Loak is in fact Wrex's old friend Aleena. I haven't seen any hints pointing to it being true though, so I'd like to know if I've missed anything or if it's just happy speculation on the part of the fanbase.

Its the type of happy speculation that started around Aethyeta being Liara's dad after she simply said the line "had a pureblood daughter". Others have pointed out the connections, but you never know. Plus it would be cool, and everything but the endings run on the Rule of Cool.

It does seem to be basically an asspull no matter how you try to slice it, doesn't it? I really don't get that one at all. Don't understand why they'd decide to do it in the first place, really don't understand why they'd keep it at this point. That's almost as nonsensical as the Catalyst himself.

Zevox

I have a feeling one of the reasons they went with "Speculation for Everyone" was because they couldn't come up with reasons and details that made the point of the endings make sense. So they chose to be vague and hoped that we would fill in our own blanks. Unfortunately they tacked on the notion of supreme sacrifice in this black hole of thought and turned what could have been a powerful or bittersweet ending into an empty death for our Hero or mass, inexplicably EDI exempting, genocide.

[Luzahn]

RE: endings and Joker. It occurs to me that if he could choose, Joker would have picked Synthesis for more reasons than his new robot girlfriend. If synthesis rewrites every cell in the body, than it's a fair bet he isn't going to be handicapped anymore.

Yeah. I forget, why could he not just get some alliance/cerberus tech augmented bones?

[Landis963]

Yeah. I forget, why could he not just get some alliance/cerberus tech augmented bones?

I took it for granted that he did; it just wasn't perfect. He mentions leg braces once or twice in ME1, (I don't remember where/when) but when it comes time for ME2, he's walking around with not much more than a bit of a stoop and a drastically reduced pace.

[Psyren]

In ME3, James asks him why he doesn't get what amounts to an exo-suit to protect him. He replies by saying he needs to feel the ship move, his balance shift etc. I wasn't aware artificial gravity could do that but I didn't question it.

Its the type of happy speculation that started around Aethyeta being Liara's dad after she simply said the line "had a pureblood daughter". Others have pointed out the connections, but you never know. Plus it would be cool, and everything but the endings run on the Rule of Cool.

They also like to hide stuff for the more observant fans to find, like Tiptree.

I wonder what the deal was with Gavorn; we found out why almost everyone was under Broker surveillance except him.

[Morty]

After you recruit Mordin and Archangel in ME2, do the two sidequests for her - one is gotten from a datapad on the Archangel recruitment, where you read of a plot by the mercs to continue their team-up and go after her next. The second is where you help her resolve the Patriarch situation.

Once you've done those, you can have this conversation with her.

Ahhhh. I see. I never did talk to her after those two sidequests except when tracking down Morinth.

[Fawkes]

Wait, so that isn't a bug? Bwah? But that explanation doesn't even make sense

Welcome to the Mass Effect 3 ending. Please leave your coat and logical thinking processes at the door.

And really, assuming that the Geth live through that ending just because you want them to and the (highly minimalist and much criticized for it) ending animation doesn't show them dying is as much fan fiction as the indoctrination theory. If you go assuming that the options presented don't do what the Catalyst tells you they do then you're left with absolutely nothing to the ending at all.

Oh no, someone's writing fanfiction to explain something that makes no sense. Call the internet police!

Now there's awesome fanfiction I can get behind... I've noticed that trying to make up or read fanfic theories like these is a lot more satisfying than playing the games again.

Hell, reading most of them is more satisfying than the games. I can think of at least three other works of fanfiction that are just plain better than the ending we were left with.

Which begs the question of whether any of them actually watched the ending, or made any kind of logical assumptions based on their own codex entries, or really, for that matter, gave it any kind of thought other than "explodinating the mass relays is teh coolz."

They did not.

[Wolf_Haley]

I'm blanking out rihgt now, was it shown Aria died when Omega was taken?

[Fawkes]

I'm blanking out rihgt now, was it shown Aria died when Omega was taken?

No, Aria escaped to the Citadel. It's assumed she survived the Citadel being taken, because she's an important character and no one important died when the Citadel blew up.

[Avilan the Grey]

I'm blanking out rihgt now, was it shown Aria died when Omega was taken?

Taken by whom? The reason she is on the citadel is because it is already taken, and there is a confirmed upcoming DLC where you get her as a temporary squadmate while taking it back.

[Psyren]

Oh no, someone's writing fanfiction to explain something that makes no sense. Call the internet police!

1) We're all on the same side here, being snarky to each other won't make the game any better.

2) I don't have a problem with "hey, maybe some of the Geth survived destroy, let's talk about that." What I do have a problem with is "OMG EDI SURVIVED CATALYST IS A LIER YOUR A FOOL FOR PICKING BLUE AND GREEN WHO WOULD TRUST THE REAPER CHIEF DERP???" Which is a common attitude on the forums towards anyone who didn't pick Destroy.

[polity4life]

I wonder if the Geth would be annihilated with the Destroy option. The ...thing states that all synthetics would be destroyed and explicitly makes mention of the Geth and you. Obviously there are other things that are synthetic, like EDI, or use cybernetics, like Quarian, and none of that is addressed.

Does the Catalyst literally mean synthetics or does he imply Reaper technologies? If the former, well...Destroy does more than advertised. If the latter, I don't know if the Geth would be affected as EDI wasn't affected.

On Rannoch, they are upgraded with Reaper tech. However the upload was insufficient to fully complete the upgrade and Legion's 1,183 (?) programs had to re-assimilate with the consensus for force it through. Essentially, the new Geth intelligence is augmented with a Reaper program that can only run using what was Legion as a driver. Isn't that in sort of the same vein as EDI upgrading her code?

So are they actually Reaper tech? If so and provided the Catalyst implied Reaper technologies and not all synthetics, would the Geth survive?

[blackjack217]

1) We're all on the same side here, being snarky to each other won't make the game any better.

2) I don't have a problem with "hey, maybe some of the Geth survived destroy, let's talk about that." What I do have a problem with is "OMG EDI SURVIVED CATALYST IS A LIER YOUR A FOOL FOR PICKING BLUE AND GREEN WHO WOULD TRUST THE REAPER CHIEF DERP???" Which is a common attitude on the forums towards anyone who didn't pick Destroy.

I'll admit I prefer destroy, because as Hacket says: "Dead reapers are how we win this" That said, if there was a paragon option to take control of the reapers and send them all to the sun, with appropriate cinematic awesome of course, I would think that's a great way to salvage this. As for destroy, just have a reputation option exclude the Rannoch relay from the pretty explosion. Geth fleet is still toast ofc.

[Psyren]

I don't know the specifics of how Destroy works, and what technologies it would consider to be targets vs. what ones it wouldn't.

What I do know is that the Catalyst specifically said the Geth would be destroyed. My Shepard wouldn't take that risk.

[Derthric]

The concept that destroy targets reaper code or reaper tech and that's why the upgraded geth bite it, is pure fan wank. It made sense though, and worked until we find out about EDI. Even if it only targets reaper tech the geth would revert to pre-upgrade status not be destroyed. Also where Shep's implants come from, is there confirmation that its reaper tech? I wouldn't put it past the Cerberus to do it, but it doesn't seem like that is something Miranda would embrace. Just wondering if there is confirmation.

[Aeryr]

Wow a lot of hot stuff happened after my EDI-Geth comment I hope we can all get along.

Some friendly comments.

After all, she was sapient before they added the stuff to her,

So were the Geth. But yeah, I can see what you mean. In my opinion it was a bug at first but then after the whole ****storm with the ending they were like "We are totally not having any bug on our artistic ending".

What I do have a problem with is "OMG EDI SURVIVED CATALYST IS A LIER YOUR A FOOL FOR PICKING BLUE AND GREEN WHO WOULD TRUST THE REAPER CHIEF DERP???"

Nah my problem with not picking destroy was "hey I've been trying to destroy the reapers since Eden Prime I also have been hearing how bad is it to try to control them and I don't really understand how green magic works." Destroying stuff that I can understand.

And I will say it once again what I am defending is not that the geth are alive nor that they are dead, what I am defending is that you don't know.

Also if I can remember correctly Legion mentioned that only the Geth that were near Rannoch had been uploaded with Reaper tech at first. So either way it's probably going to end like the Rachni and there will be Geth on any game to come no matter the color you picked.

[Fawkes]

1) We're all on the same side here, being snarky to each other won't make the game any better.

you don't know that

[Beowulf DW]

By the way, this was part of my original reply earlier that got eaten - I haven't laughed so hard at anything in days

We need to find someone with video editing skills who can overlay that audio with the Crucible cutscene.

[Luzahn]

Wow a lot of hot stuff happened after my EDI-Geth comment I hope we can all get along.

Some friendly comments.



So were the Geth. But yeah, I can see what you mean. In my opinion it was a bug at first but then after the whole ****storm with the ending they were like "We are totally not having any bug on our artistic ending".



Nah my problem with not picking destroy was "hey I've been trying to destroy the reapers since Eden Prime I also have been hearing how bad is it to try to control them and I don't really understand how green magic works." Destroying stuff that I can understand.

And I will say it once again what I am defending is not that the geth are alive nor that they are dead, what I am defending is that you don't know.

Also if I can remember correctly Legion mentioned that only the Geth that were near Rannoch had been uploaded with Reaper tech at first. So either way it's probably going to end like the Rachni and there will be Geth on any game to come no matter the color you picked.

The issue I can see with "Destroy them 'cause they're Reapers" is that it is the same reaction people should have had to Legion. Sure, the scale is bigger, but the fallacy is the same. I destroyed them because the have mind control capacity. I dislike mind control capacity.

Also, can anyone else confirm Legion's line on the upgrades? Because it would be great to have some outpost survivors.