An experiment in self discovery.

[ForzaFiori]

I have no desire to live that long, so I'd take at least one ability, possibly two, and maybe even three. It would depend on how good "good enough to be famous" is. If I picked soccer, for example, I'd want to be good enough to play competetively in a top European league. Sitting on a bench in the MLS would be enough to be "famous", in the sense of people knowing who I am, but that's not really that good of a deal. I'd have to know the extent of the talent before I made any deals.

If your a bench sitter, I actually doubt you'd be that famous. In most sports (and soccer is no different), only the starters make massive amounts of money, or are really known. Especially in the MLS, I doubt that many people could name all the starters on a single team, let alone the people who never play. Even in the US, most soccer fans follow European soccer instead of MLS.

[factotum]

I have no desire to live that long, so I'd take at least one ability, possibly two, and maybe even three.

Given the rules stated, you'd be happy to die at 45?

[noparlpf]

Let's say a superior (not supreme, I don't want to deal with religion issues) being comes to you and says that you will live to the age of 75, and drop dead at 11:59 pm on your 75th birthday. However, he's willing to make a deal with you. For 10 years off the end of your life, he will grant you the talent to be good enough at something to be famous for it.

It could be anything natural... like stamp collecting. You could be so good at stamp collecting that you would go down in history as one of the greatest stamp collectors of all time.

And you can take as many abilities as you have decades to give, but you can't go past your current age to age limit range. For instance, if you are 35, then you can get up to 3 abilities, (4 would put you past the night of your 75th birthday) but if you're 34, then you can have 4 of them.

What abilities, if any, do you take?

Just so we're clear, the deal would be legit. You definitely get the ability, but being good enough to be famous does not necessarily mean that you will actually become famous. It just means you would have a talent worthy of being noted for posterity. And we're talking about abilities, not wishes. The ability to live forever is not really an ability, nor is the ability to get more abilities. Those belong to the wish department. We're talking skill sets, physical, academic, artistic, etc. The ability to be a great football player, or rocket scientist, or painter. These all work.

GO!

I already have the ability to become a great football player (American or anywhere else), rocket scientist, painter, stamp collector, or whatever. Why trade life for something redundant?

[Othesemo]

I have no desire to live past 70. I'd take something.

Actually, becoming a starcraft master would be a pretty awesome deal. There's a lot of money to be made there. Seriously, though, I can think of plenty of uses of this one ability which far surpass the value of 10 years of my life. Hell, I might even take two.

Also, I would abuse the fact that I have a predestined death and enjoy being immortal for decades.

[missmvicious]

So...you want to become a Determinator?

...that just sounds painful, for some reason.

That wasn't what I was thinking, but I wouldn't be upset if that is what I became.

[dehro]

a question that would affect my decision making:
do we get to know the manner of our death as the deal is laid out to us?
drop dead can mean a lot of different things.
since I assume that the manner of death wouldn't be detailed, I'd rather not find out once I'd struck the deal that I'd be spending the next 30 years in and out of hospitals fighting cancer with a foreknowledge that it would take me 30 years of pain until I actually died.
abusing the predetermined date of our death sounds cool..but there are a few too many fatal illnesses that I'd rather not catch at, say, 50, only for them to be drawn out for 25 years..or 15 if I took the deal. it doesn't even need to be that... say you take the ability to fly.. and then you fly right into a seagull which knocks you unconscious causing you to fall from skyscraper hight?.. you'd spend the next x years in a coma in a hospital bed, waiting for the appointed date in which you would finally pass away.
I know..it's not "natural".. it's an extreme example, but pretty much everything one picks could turn out that way..murphy's law doesn't make exceptions
that said, fame has no attraction to me whatsoever.
if I could get the ability to cure parkinson's disease with it, or cancer, I might consider it... as my dad is battling the first and the latter has caused a few deaths in the family already.
that way, defeating cancer within my lifetime, I could at least rule that out as cause of death, again, in light of not feeling too hot about contracting something nasty and knowing I can't shake it for another x numbers of years when it will finally get me.

anyway, the whole deal stinks, however you look at it.
do I get to take a shotgun to the face of the superior being?

[Raistlin1040]

If your a bench sitter, I actually doubt you'd be that famous. In most sports (and soccer is no different), only the starters make massive amounts of money, or are really known. Especially in the MLS, I doubt that many people could name all the starters on a single team, let alone the people who never play. Even in the US, most soccer fans follow European soccer instead of MLS.

Well maybe I'm biased because I live in Seattle so I know ALL the Sounders players, regardless of if they start or not. It depends on what famous means. There are players for the Sounders who are mediocre at best, getting a handful of starts and a few substitutions throughout the season, but they're still known by at LEAST the 40,000 people who come to the games, plus people who follow the team but don't go to games.

Famous is kind of relative, I guess. I'd say any starter in England is "famous", but that doesn't mean most Americans could tell you a player in England who isn't Rooney. I could tell you every player on the Sounders roster, which I guess makes me consider them famous, but I could only tell you maybe 5 American football players off the top of my head, although they are more famous here.

[Anxe]

I didn't even know the Sounders were a team, so... I would not describe that as famous. A famous soccer player would be Beckham or Pele. Pretty much everyone has heard of you, even those who don't follow soccer.

[inexorabletruth]

I already have the ability to become a great football player (American or anywhere else), rocket scientist, painter, stamp collector, or whatever. Why trade life for something redundant?

Wow. You sound like an amazing person! I look forward to reading about you in the Guiness Book of Records.

[inexorabletruth]

a question that would affect my decision making:
do we get to know the manner of our death.... blah, blah, blah

Sorry, had to snip that short.

I think maybe you're thinking too hard about the death aspect of the deal and not so much about the quality of life aspect of the deal. That's the thought experiment. What would you do with the time you had left with the new skills you had acquired, and what skills would those be?

[Winter_Wolf]

I'd tell the being to come back on my 75th birthday and we'd talk then. Otherwise bugger off and let me get on with the remainder of my life using the skill and ability that I earned for myself.

Because it's offering me a raw deal. If I really want mastery of something, I suspect I could do it in the ten years that the being is trying to take from me, along with picking up a few other things during that time. And if I didn't think it was worth devoting 10 years of my life to doing, I sure wouldn't just give up those years to have an ability*right now*. For all the things I really want to be good at, the journey is either as important or more important than the destination.

[noparlpf]

I didn't even know the Sounders were a team, so... I would not describe that as famous. A famous soccer player would be Beckham or Pele. Pretty much everyone has heard of you, even those who don't follow soccer.

Never heard of either of those people.

Wow. You sound like an amazing person! I look forward to reading about you in the Guiness Book of Records.

Well, the ability to do something doesn't mean I will do it or become famous for it. But I'm smart, and I'm naturally pretty fit, and I'm pretty good at learning new skills, so I imagine if I actually started to do something seriously I'd be able to become good at it and potentially become well-known.

[inexorabletruth]

@ noparlpf

Your confidence is admirable. I only hope your ambition rivals your potential. The world needs people like that.

[dehro]

Sorry, had to snip that short.

I think maybe you're thinking too hard about the death aspect of the deal and not so much about the quality of life aspect of the deal. That's the thought experiment. What would you do with the time you had left with the new skills you had acquired, and what skills would those be?

I did answer that part too, but my choice whether to accept such a deal and ask for the skills to cure cancer or walk away from it and enjoy 10 extra years would depend on the "maliciousness" and potential unpoken downsides to such a deal. (if the superior being has a malicious intent he may forget to mention that if I accept his deal I'll suffer massively for the remainder of my life. being able to ascertain this "detail" would be massively important)
thinking too much about the dearh aspect? my grandfather is 92 and still kicking, your superior being just told me that my life expetancy is cut short and at best I will die about 20 years younger than him.. and he proposes that I die even younger for a chance to do something worthwile in the remaining years. it's my life you're talking about, not that of a random stranger. death would feature prominently in my thought process.

[Sturmcrow]

Thought about this for a bit, and I am not sure this is what I would really do but I consider it a possibility I would think on and dismiss.

Right now I am a decent writer (I think but my confidence is my problem) so the ability to inspire would be one I choose and then inspire myself. I would then tempted to just pick Writing (just in case) and 2 random abilities, giving myself less than a year to live. taking the 130,000 settlement for my back injury and living very well the last year of my life pursuing writing and hopefully being remembered for all time. Because if I cannot live for ever then I would want to be remember forever and I think some writers will last for most of mankinds time left.

But in the end I think I would not take the deal.

[inexorabletruth]

Fair enough dehro. But it's only hypothetical. Make it what you want. I suppose in this theoretical situation, the superior being will definitely make good on his word, and you will definitely have the talent you were expecting to have, and only that which comes with the talent. No raw deals, no ponzi schemes. Whether or not you suffer for the remaining years of your life is entirely up to you and the decisions you make.

The thing is, and several people on this board have caught on to this already, we do this with our lives already.

TEXT WALL! (tl;dr- things in my life got me thinkin' about my hopes and dreams vs. sacrifice, and I was curious about the hopes and dreams of others and what they would sacrifice to make them come true.)

Spoiler

Show

Whether you want to blame it on fate, genetics, or statistics, we all have an expiration date. Eventually, through bad decisions, bad luck, or old age, we're going to slow down, whither up, and die, but we chew up the first 1/4 century of our lives preparing for a career that may not even be what we wanted to do in the first place, and then another 5 to 10 years establishing ourselves in that field. But what if we could re-route ourselves and get set on the path now? Instead of chipping away at our swiftly depleting youth, what if we could take from the years at the end of our life and use the youthful energy and passion we now have to make our dreams come true?

I grew up poor. My options were limited. When I was a little boy, I saw RoboCop and decided I wanted to be a cybernetic engineer, but my dad said my math and science grades (at only a B to B+) weren't good enough for that career path and I should be more practical. Then, when I hit adolescence I developed a passion for politics, but my parents wouldn't have been able to afford to get me into the good law schools (which is where most politicians seem to come from). Then, as an angsty teenager, I wanted to be in a band, but once again, we couldn't afford a guitar, so my parents (misunderstanding my interests) scraped what little money they had and got me a $60 trumpet from a pawn shop. I was grateful for the effort, so I practiced hard to make them proud, but it wasn't what I meant. I wanted to be like Brian May from Queen and travel the world. My senior year, things were going well, I was on the right path for an athletics and music scholarship and would be able to go to a respectable state university until a good law school picked up my option (fingers crossed) but then a knee injury took out half the scholarship funds I was hoping for. It didn't stop me. I retooled and became a desktop publisher, which at the time cost little money (education-wise) and paid well enough. I got my own firm, made tons of money, travelled the world, bought a recording studio, recorded my first two (and only two) albums, and even helped some other indie bands get their first start.

But the late start was discouraging. I was trying to catch up to people who had been playing their guitars and drums since they were 8 years old. Compared to them, I sucked, and I knew I sucked. The economic collapse hit, I lost the studio, and I never made it to the big time.

Don't get me wrong... things worked out. I have a beautiful wife, a strong and healthy son, and a decent paying job that allows me to provide for my family and even set up a college fund for my son when he's old enough to take his shot at greatness.

But time was against me. Everything I wanted to do, I had a late start in. I still haven't had the time to graduate college, nor did I get to pursue any of the degree plans I wanted. I'm not old, but I'm not a kid anymore, and I miss that energy and zeal I had a decade ago, which sometimes gets me thinking.

If I had a shot, would I take it? Would you? If I could be a brilliant scientist, politician, or musician today, would I? Would you? If you could be equipped, today, to do all that you want to do with your life, even if it cost you 10 years off the end of your life, would you do it?

I probably would. But this time around, I wouldn't be a scientist or a musician, though those sound great. I think I'd be a comic book writer and artist. *shrug* It's my latest hobby, and I'd like to be good at it before something reminds me that it's a silly idea or somehow out of my reach because I didn't make the right connections or go to the right school when I was younger. 's'all I'm sayin'

Anyway... it all just got me to thinking. Plus it's encouraging to know that there are people in this forum with big dreams, goals and passions. I like the idea that there are people out there who are fearlessly devoted to leaving their mark on life. The new millennium has been such a disappointment to so many people, and I'm constantly bombarded with so much pessimism and cynicism each day from friends, family, co-workers, and random interactions with strangers. It's refreshing to hear about the hopes and dreams of others. It reminds me that there are sill people out there who are hoping and dreaming.

Thanks all! It was great to hear your thoughts on the subject. I wish you the best of luck in your endeavors!

[dehro]

quite a different angle than the one I was going for, but I see your point. I would probably have caught it earlier if you had not set a fixed date in your hypotesis..
basically if you'd said that the superior being would shave 10 years off my life regardless of what my life expectancy was, as opposed to "if you don't accept the deal you'll still die at 75" which nowadays isn't all that old to begin with, I would have replied differently.
I would personally have put it even more differently.. something like "you've got only *small number of* years left to live, irrespective of what your age is now, in exchange for the talent."

anyway, to reply..
I don't have the ambition to go down in the History books. I believe in small amounts of good, doing one's best and being nice to one's fellow individual, helping out when one can.
I'd rather have a bunch of people genuinely care for me and be there for me at my funeral than I would like for my death to be a subject of the news of the day.
so, no..I don't think I would take the chance to leave my mark as a writer (which in an ideal world would be my aspiration and something I have never had the consistency and determination to pursue.. nor the talent, come to think of it)...if it meant that I would live a short life and miss out on the opportunity of learning more about my fellow human beings, history, experiencing new things, seeing my children being born, and maybe helping their children taking their first steps as I chase them with my cane..
given the choice, at 33 years of age..
to do one great thing in a trade against living a full life and being there to give back to those I care about for as long as I can, doesn't appeal to me at all...
I value the small deeds done by decent people (especially those who have little cause to feel like giving) more than the great heroics or standout performances in whatever field of arts, human endeavours and science... delivered by less than ethically/morally sound individuals who then proceed to do horrible things in other fields.
I don't need a superior being giving me incentives to make me try and be that decent person.
I had a few more opportunities in my younger years than you had, I messed most of them up and would be in a much better place now if I hadn't. I've learned from it, if a bit late.
one thing that has always been a constant is that I don't do well with compliments and don't really accept that I've accomplished things, even though on occasion I have... so public recognition has no attraction to me at all.

[Riverdance]

I wouldn't take anything.

Not only do I want to live as long as I possibly can, I wouldn't want to become famous due to an ability someone else gave me with a snap of a finger. Feels like cheating and wouldn't probably be very fulfilling in the long run.

Yeah, I'm with you there. I wouldn't want to be in debt like that.

[Raistlin1040]

I didn't even know the Sounders were a team, so... I would not describe that as famous. A famous soccer player would be Beckham or Pele. Pretty much everyone has heard of you, even those who don't follow soccer.

Never heard of either of those people.

Not sure if joking...or serious.

But point proven about fame being relative. There are only a handful of soccer players that currently play who "everyone" knows. I can really only think of Rooney and Messi that I would expect people who don't know soccer to know. I would not expect to be on their level by using up my first ten years (although I would not complain if I could be). Furthermore, sometimes fame and talent are not the same, because I know who Tim Tebow is despite the fact that I'm told he's a pretty mediocre quarterback in most ways.

I would most likely pick soccer as one of my skills because if I was actually good enough to play for a good team in Europe, I would be able to worm my way into a team in the US or Mexico and eventually move to Europe in a few seasons. The skill level would need to be at least starter for a decent European team though, otherwise no dice.

[noparlpf]

100% serious. If you ever need somebody who's never heard of a famous person, I'm your man.

[Solaris]

Has someone come up with the "Famous for inventing immortality and the cure for death" yet?
If not, dibs.

[Mewtarthio]

I'd like to say I'd go for charisma. That is, such amazingly good social skills that I could potentially become famous just for being so gosh-durned likable. At that point, I could take whatever job I wanted. Heck, I could just enter a artistc field as a hobby and convince everyone my work is brilliant.

The trouble is...

Tempting. But I feel that any ten years I would lose are ten years I could spend mastering such a skill.

...I think Icewalker wins the thread. Okay, it might be worth it if you have some sort of disability that your newfound special talent mitigates, but otherwise...

[Cobra_Ikari]

My problem with Icewalker's statement: 10 years of study in a field does not guarantee mastery of that field to the degree that you could become famous in it. Moreover, it becomes a question of whether you'll be using said mastery from now to age 65 or from 10 years from now to age 75. I really don't think there's an equivalency there- the year you are age, say, 30 would tend to allow you to be more productive than, say, the year you are 70. Aging does play an effect on the quality of life.

To me, it seems like a no brainer to take the offer (at least once), but then, I don't particularly want to live into old age. I think there's an argument to be made on the merits of taking something that will benefit you, personally, vs. taking something that will have a lasting benefit to society as a whole, but to those people saying "No, I want to live as long as possible"...why? What are you planning to do from age 65 to 75 that's worth so much? And if there isn't anything...why are you so afraid of dying?

[THAC0]

To me, it seems like a no brainer to take the offer (at least once), but then, I don't particularly want to live into old age. I think there's an argument to be made on the merits of taking something that will benefit you, personally, vs. taking something that will have a lasting benefit to society as a whole, but to those people saying "No, I want to live as long as possible"...why? What are you planning to do from age 65 to 75 that's worth so much? And if there isn't anything...why are you so afraid of dying?

Spend time with family? I kinda like my husband, we can do a whole lot of fun things in 10 years. Kids? Grandkids? 10 years might mean never knowing your grandkids.

And really, what's the point of being famous anyway? Why is it worth 10 years of your life?

[Crow]

My problem with Icewalker's statement: 10 years of study in a field does not guarantee mastery of that field to the degree that you could become famous in it. Moreover, it becomes a question of whether you'll be using said mastery from now to age 65 or from 10 years from now to age 75. I really don't think there's an equivalency there- the year you are age, say, 30 would tend to allow you to be more productive than, say, the year you are 70. Aging does play an effect on the quality of life.

To me, it seems like a no brainer to take the offer (at least once), but then, I don't particularly want to live into old age. I think there's an argument to be made on the merits of taking something that will benefit you, personally, vs. taking something that will have a lasting benefit to society as a whole, but to those people saying "No, I want to live as long as possible"...why? What are you planning to do from age 65 to 75 that's worth so much? And if there isn't anything...why are you so afraid of dying?

My problem with Icewalker's statement is that there are very few skills that can be mastered in 10 years, if any. (Even with no other obligations like work, family, education, etc). If you do have those obligations, it becomes even more difficult to get good enough at a skill to be famous for it.

Most of the people who are famous for their skill in their field have not been at it for 10 years. They have been at it their entire lives. Even a major league baseball player, finally breaking into the bigs at 22 years old has been playing baseball for 18 years; and he may end up getting sent back down in a few weeks, never to be heard from again.

[Mx.Silver]

Spend time with family? I kinda like my husband, we can do a whole lot of fun things in 10 years. Kids? Grandkids? 10 years might mean never knowing your grandkids.

And really, what's the point of being famous anyway? Why is it worth 10 years of your life?

You're not trading 10 years for fame, you're trading 10 years for mastery of a skill to such a degree that you could become famous for it. We're talking good enough that you could help discover a cure for a major disease if you went for the science route.

[THAC0]

You're not trading 10 years for fame, you're trading 10 years for mastery of a skill to such a degree that you could become famous for it. We're talking good enough that you could help discover a cure for a major disease if you went for the science route.

Still not worth 10 years with the people I love, 10 years of all sorts of things I could be doing. I can understand wanting to cure a disease, but still not worth it for me.

[Whiffet]

To me, it seems like a no brainer to take the offer (at least once), but then, I don't particularly want to live into old age. I think there's an argument to be made on the merits of taking something that will benefit you, personally, vs. taking something that will have a lasting benefit to society as a whole, but to those people saying "No, I want to live as long as possible"...why? What are you planning to do from age 65 to 75 that's worth so much? And if there isn't anything...why are you so afraid of dying?

What will I do from age 65 to 75 that's worth so much?

I'll be spending time with my loved ones. Right now I have no idea what kind of shape I'll be in when I'm old, but even if I'm one of the can-barely-move-across-the-room-without-pain old people I still can be with my family. I can still watch my grandchildren be born and grow, and I can pass on the wisdom I will have gained from all those years alive. Anything else about that time... who knows? I hope for more than just family. Maybe I'll be lucky and still be healthy and active up until the end. At any rate I stand a good chance of still having a sound mind. I wouldn't be surprised if I decided to learn as much as I could about everything. And of course I'll be spoiling the grandkids whenever I see them.

Also, I'll get to see how the world changes in those ten years. A lot can happen in ten years. Come, watch the future happen with us! Who knows what wonders we will see?

That said, if my family had a history of Alzheimer's or something... yeah, that would change things.

[Xondoure]

The ability to control superior beings.

[inexorabletruth]

I really don't think that THAC0 and Whiffet's answers are wrong. Those are great answers! They already have everything they want and now just want to savor it. Some of us though just aren't done running the race. We've got other goals that either aren't met yet, or can't be met by normal methods.

For instance, while I'm not a stupid man, I know that I will never be a rocket scientist. Even if I started applying myself to that field of study right now, I seriously doubt something like that is in my scope of capabilities. However, if rocket science was my passion, would I sacrifice 10 years off the end of my life to have all the skills necessary to be legendary at it? Most likely, yes. And I love my life. My wife and son are great, and I can't really complain about my job. We're not fabulously wealthy, but that's not how I measure success. If I had to boil it down to an opinion, I'd say I'm living a very good life, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't trade in 10 years for just a little more. But that's me... I live fast, and I don't regret a bit of it because that lifestyle has rewarded me with a variety of experiences that I would never have had by living more cautiously. So, what's 10 years off the end, if it means the life that I have left is that much richer?

It's like my great-grandma always said, "Eat the dessert first; that way you definitely have room for it."