General Exalted Discussion Thread X: Playground Cosmic Principle

[The Demented One]

Well, it's not clear what happens to a primordial killed by Ghost Eating Technique equivalents, because they're not spirits and they're significantly more physical and resilient than their component souls.

Primordials killed by GET die and descend into the Underworld as Neverborn.

[golentan]

Primordials killed by GET die and descend into the Underworld as Neverborn.

Thank you for that.

I meant whether they're motonically sundered or die from some more arcane process. I know they die from it, and where they end up, thank you very much

[Gensh]

I meant whether they're motonically sundered or die from some more arcane process. I know they die from it, and where they end up, thank you very much

Apparently, they leave physical corpses behind, but I can't say what happens to their oversoul. If I had to guess, it would be that they fall through Creation like falling through the ground in a video game and from there snowball into a mausoleum jouten before sticking at the boundary of Oblivion.

[Lix Lorn]

Thank you for that.

I meant whether they're motonically sundered or die from some more arcane process. I know they die from it, and where they end up, thank you very much

I think the relevant point is that they leave ghosts behind. Lethe is for ghosts. Neverborn are giant ghosts.

[Rikandur Azebol]

Both Underworld and Ghosts are byproduct of Neverborn's making. Thus it's hard to tell if they are truly dead, since death/rebirth was designed by Primordials for mortal races. Not for themselves. Exalted by destroying their component souls killed the minds of Primordials, on some level, wich resulted in transformation of the remnants into Neverborn.

And gods/demons/elementals can be destroyed, but not killed. Gods that take enough damage to "die", wich isn't spirit-destroying attack, are teleported back to their sanctums where they respawn. Elementals are destroyed, essence reabsorbed back into Creation. First Circle Demons are destroyed when slain, but unlike Elementals they have defense mechanism of naturally incorporeal beings just like gods. Once they are dropped to last -4 Health Level they automatically dematerialize and often try to flee, suddenly spared further damage.

All spirits can be resurrected when destroyed. Cult can make sacrifices, and when they fill mote pool and willpower pool of the spirit before year passes, the spirit is restored to existence.

It is unknown if such system would work for Neverborn, since nobody really tried it.

Second Circle Demons can be resurrected by Third Circle Demons they belong to. Usually it takes a year to reform, but Master can hurry it up.

Third Circle Demons can be instantly revived by Yozi they belong to.

[Kyeudo]

Hey, I just finished watching Puella Magi Madoka Magica and all I can think of is: Those characters are brilliant inspirations for Abyssal Exalted.

Also, holy crap can they pack more wham episodes into a twelve-episode run? I feel like I just got hit with a bag of hammers!

[horngeek]

Incidentally... a sample Flaw of Invulnerability for a Devil-Tiger I'm cooking up. The accompanying Excellency will turn up shortly, but I'm having difficulty wording the Flaw right.

Flaw of the Steel Fortress

Spoiler

Show

The Steel Fortress acts against her very nature when fighting in a conflict started by her. As such, a Perfect Defense bearing her Flaw may not be used in such a conflict or war.

Basically, think the Chiss from the Star Wars EU- they'd never start a war, even in a preemptive strike, but if attacked, they'd destroy the attacker totally. The Charm would be applicable for an entire war/conflict, or not, depending on who initiated it.

The PD in question will likely be a Perfect Soak, yes. :P

[Xefas]

The Steel Fortress is slow to anger and slow to forgive. It stands as an immovable pillar of stoic strength and temperance amidst a wasteland of creatures grown weak in their excess and impulsiveness. However, when its ire is finally aroused by such fools, it makes no hesitation in descending upon them in an unstoppable avalanche of grinding metal. To betray its own restraint is to betray its nature, and so no Charm bearing the Flaw of the Steel Fortress may be utilized in a conflict, be it a debate, single combat, or even a full-scale war, if the user is the first to instigate hostilities.

In a small-scale conflict, the aggressor is typically easily ascertained as the character who chose to roll Join Battle or Join Debate to begin the conflict (although not necessarily the first character to act). In conflicts of a larger scale, such as a war, the aggressor is typically the one to initiate military action first.

The Steel Fortress is free to enter conflicts previously started by their own allies. Though perhaps an outsider in such affairs, it is within the nature of the Steel Fortress to defend the subjects of their bonds, whether it be obligation, kinship, affection, or otherwise.

(Steel, really? That's like Exalted Cardboard.)

[snake obsidian]

Oh, look what I stumbled upon!
Hi, I´m a player just recently introduced to Exalted. I love the books, I´ve read all the ones available to me, and I´ve been wanting to play for a while now too. If someone has a game, will have a game, or plays in one that has space for a new player, I would be happy to know. Thanks!

[horngeek]

Yes, but to mortals, Steel's relatively strong, no?

She's sure as hell not going to be the Brass or Vitriol Fortress.

...anyway, yes. That's exactly what I'm talking about, thank you Xefas. And the last bit is perfect too, since she's explicitly going to be a protector of those weaker.

...so, yeah. Can I steal that almost word-for-word? The only thing I might remove is the bit about debates- none of her PDs are applicable in Social Combat anyway, and she's not an isolationist.

Excellency up in next post.

[horngeek]

Excellency of the Steel Fortress

Spoiler

Show

The Steel Fortress is slow to anger but slow to forgive, a faithful protector and pillar of strength. She shows restraint when the impulsive seek to provoke her, but when attacked, she lets her enemies dash themselves against her walls then retaliates in an unstoppable avalanche of metal.

Characters may use this charm for defense, either of themselves, an ally, or a vassal, or for the purpose of retaliating against any foolish enough to rest her defense. It may also be used to better the lot of those who seek protection, but may never be used for the purpose of starting deliberate conflict. The Steel Fortress does not even launch preemptive attacks, so that all may know who is the aggressor.

Hmmm... the problem I have right now, of course, is that most of those buzzwords are related to actual war and physical conflict (although a non-friendly debate could also qualify, as well as trade wars, I suppose). Any thoughts on the excellency?

And one other thing: given how important conflicts (and, in particular, who starts them) may be to her Charm tree (not sure yet, even if I do write up a Charm tree- if I do, it will be slow work), I'm considering making a 'Charm Concept: Conflict' so that I can define how it's defined in regards to the Steel Fortress' Charms.

[Xefas]

Yes, but to mortals, Steel's relatively strong, no?

She's sure as hell not going to be the Brass or Vitriol Fortress.

She could be the Adamant Fortress? Or maybe the [Something] Fortress, where [Something] is a magical material of your character's own devising that she whipped up with Constructive Convergence of Principles, and she has a Charm that, as a side benefit, relinquishes her ability to attune to Vitriol tainted Artifacts in exchange for attuning to this new material as if it were her "natural" material. And her subsidiary souls will be able to do the same?

You could call it "Titanium" for the lulz.

...so, yeah. Can I steal that almost word-for-word?

Sure.

The only thing I might remove is the bit about debates- none of her PDs are applicable in Social Combat anyway, and she's not an isolationist.

Could she not have something like a Perfect Social Parry? That's not ignoring your opponent; it's deconstructing their argument. Maybe pair it with a Natural Mental Influence Counterattack Charm that convinces them without mind control to then go home and think about their life? Or how about a Permanent Charm that lets you spend Temperance channels instead of motes to Social Perfect something that would convince you to act against your Excellency or Intimacies? Just some ideas.

[horngeek]

*snerk*

The character I've got in mind is actually a Malefactor with Kimbery as her Favored Yozi. (She looooooves you... actually, she's pretty sane about it. Her only purchase of IBT is Mother Before Daughter ) So CCoP would be not on the cards unless I reworked. A lot.

Plus, I kinda like Steel... after all, Malfeas is the Brass City. *shrugs*

Anyway, thoughts on Excellency?

And as far as Social defences go... I was thinking a Charm to make betraying allies an Unacceptable Order. I'm not sure on her Charm tree right now, though.

[Lord Raziere]

Oh, look what I stumbled upon!
Hi, I´m a player just recently introduced to Exalted. I love the books, I´ve read all the ones available to me, and I´ve been wanting to play for a while now too. If someone has a game, will have a game, or plays in one that has space for a new player, I would be happy to know. Thanks!

…………….

Y'know what…..

Welcome! If you haven't already, get the Scroll of Errata, it makes a great game, many times greater with all its rules updates. Its free, its downloadable, and everyone, or at least most everyone online, has it, so there is no reason not to take it, and the reasons to take it are long and would take way too much to explain anyways, but nonetheless, I recommend you get it.

Welcome to Exalted, learn from my mistakes and stay out of heated Exalted arguments, and go have fun. Trust me, you don't want to know.

[Rockphed]

Short of designing your own charm tree, what is it that draws people to play infernals as opposed to abyssals or solars?

[Rockphed]

Short of designing your own charm tree, what is it that draws people to play infernals as opposed to abyssals or solars?

[Lord Raziere]

Oh I can tell you that.

Things like Splintered Gale Shintai, I make a clone of myself.

or Loom-Snarling Deception, now I look like someone else. I Clone myself then disguise myself, now I have a good decoy.

Now combine this with your Cecelyne deal charms, and now your clone is a super-mutant who owes you a debt.

Thats why.

Alternatively, By Rage Recast, now I am a super-mutant, specifically any kind of mutant I want.

Mind-Hand Manipulation, now I do everything with my mind.

The charms are all about being flexible, using one tool for many uses and slowly evolving into this slightly inhuman thing, sure it has some drawbacks, but they are worth it for what you can do with the power.

[horngeek]

The character I've got in mind is actually a Malefactor with Kimbery as her Favored Yozi. (She looooooves you... actually, she's pretty sane about it. Her only purchase of IBT is Mother Before Daughter ) So CCoP would be not on the cards unless I reworked. A lot.

This being said, I could see a Defiler version.

[Turalisj]

Solars fall into the "Superman is the most boring hero to exist" flaw. They can do pretty much everything, sure (except fly and swim, zing!), but they can't do it with a unique and flavorful twist that makes them enjoyable. So what if they can run fast? Everyone can run fast! So what if they can walk on water? Everyone can walk on water!

[Lord Raziere]

Meanwhile the Abyssals have unfortunate flaw of being only designed to tell two stories, and neither of them are being freaking awesome rockstars of the Underworld Hell who can rebel against their masters and get away with it

[golentan]

Infernals are intrinsically inhuman in a way I find fascinating. They've got the pull of primordial nature dragging them beyond their birth form and mode. There's just something appealing about the world shaking powers of the titans themselves.

If I play a solar swordsman, I'm really good at hitting things with a sword. And I just get better ways to hit things with a sword. If I play an infernal swordsman, I can be a literal one man army (splintered gale shintai), sonic the hedgehog (faster than sight), a telekineticist wielding a dozen blades (mind hand manipulation), a poisonous shapeshifter (various kimbery effects or Devil Tyrant Avatar shintai), or wield a blade made out of god killing radiation (green sun nimbus flare). As an abyssal warlord, I'm really good at leading armies of the dead. As an infernal warlord, I can go to war as my own surrealist army, a moving landscape of destruction (Demon Emperor Shintai, greater shintai of the endless desert, heuristic logos shintai). As an infernal socialite I can become indistinguishable from a god by the common man (soul sand devil shintai and various cecelyne effects), or I can hate you so strongly I become you and ruin your plans from within. I can reach into your head and reprogram you. I can dodge by teleporting away like Nightcrawler. Every breath I take warps the world to fall in line with my narrative, if I will it, and petty human ideas of skill are subject to the cosmic concept of my patron that I radiate from every pore rather than the defining limits of my competence.

That's why I prefer infernals.

[horngeek]

Solars may be my favorite Exalt type (*gasp* ) but there are stories that are tellable with Infernals that aren't tellable with Solars. Or Abyssals, for that matter (rebel against their master).

Abyssals, likewise, can tell stories that Infernals and Solars can't. Or at least, not properly.

So, yes. I prefer Solars, because I like playing Gilgamesh or Cu Cuchulain or any other type of Greek Hero. But I can enjoy playing Infernals for more than Devil-Tiger.

I will note that I'd never play a Loyalist Infernal (Loyalist Infernals are chumps and the designers say so anyway ) or a Loyalist Abyssal, because neither are a playstyle I'd enjoy more than a one-shot.

The main difference between Renegade Infernal (NOT necessarily Devil-Tiger) and Renegade Abyssal is that the Renegade Infernal does the 'pfheh, angst. I'm an Exalted!' much better than an Abyssal. On the other hand, you really can't play a Renegade infernal through the long, tortuous trek to redemption.

[Drascin]

(Steel, really? That's like Exalted Cardboard.)

Hey, brass is generally pathetic as a metal and Malfeas still makes it work and be tough. Physics and themes do not necessarily have to match.

[horngeek]

Hey, brass is generally pathetic as a metal and Malfeas still makes it work and be tough. Physics and themes do not necessarily have to match.

Exactly. The Steel Fortress cares not if actual steel is weaker than everything else, her Steel is 20% cooler.

...and one of her Third Circle souls is possibly Rainbow Dash in Deva form, but that's beside the point.

[Drascin]

Exactly. The Steel Fortress cares not if actual steel is weaker than everything else, her Steel is 20% cooler.

Yep.

I will in fact say it has much better associations than Malfeas does. It's purely and simply impossible for me to ever take Malfeas seriously because of the brass association. Brass translates to spanish as "latón", which is also used as a despective term for tin or stuff that is fake or of poor quality. Every time I try to translate "the Brass City" it makes me want to go at him with a can opener

[Lord Raziere]

I think that the Brass thing is intentional Drascin.

[horngeek]

Anyway, yeah. Still looking for comments on her Excellency.

Also:

Charm Concept: Conflict and Aggressors

Spoiler

Show

A few of the Steel Fortress' Charms refer to Conflict and Aggressors.

A Conflict is, broadly, defined as any interaction where one or both parties wish to cause harm to each other. While a battle or war will always qualify (unless, of course, it's a sparring match or war game), a political debate may also qualify (especially if personal attacks are used), as will a trade war. Ultimately, the exact line on what defines a conflict is left to the ST.

An Aggressor is defined as the instigator of a Conflict. In battle, this is defined as the first one to roll Join Battle or Join War, and in a larger military conflict, this is defined as the first party to make a military strike.

The exact ending point to a Conflict is left up to the ST, but a general guideline is when either all parties have agreed to end hostilities or one side is a total victor (i.e. all other parties in the Conflict are unable to continue hostilities).

[Arrghus]

I associate steel with solidity, purity of mind, and a kind of refined brutality I'm having trouble explaining in words (industrial warfare comes close). I would also like to note that it is a rarefied form of iron, a metal Exalted strongly associates with Earth, the central element that repels the Wyld, but also with Death (the first Circle of Necromancy is sometimes even called the Iron Circle).

I think part of the point of Malfeas being brass is that it by nature is a bit tarnished (a word that is oft repeated in association with Malfean brass) and bad, a reflection of Malfeas' damaged state.

[snake obsidian]

…………….

Y'know what…..

Welcome! If you haven't already, get the Scroll of Errata, it makes a great game, many times greater with all its rules updates. Its free, its downloadable, and everyone, or at least most everyone online, has it, so there is no reason not to take it, and the reasons to take it are long and would take way too much to explain anyways, but nonetheless, I recommend you get it.

Welcome to Exalted, learn from my mistakes and stay out of heated Exalted arguments, and go have fun. Trust me, you don't want to know.

Oh, thanks. I already took a look on the Scroll of Errata, and delved into the jungle of the Ink Monkeys while I was at it. I can´t really get into arguments at this point because I haven´t played it yet, but I´ll be lurking around.

[horngeek]

Mmmm. The Ink Monkeys came up with some cool stuff (and the Daystar was awesome).

What books do you have apart from the core rulebook?