LGBTAitP Part 23: Et tu, ~Bianca?

[Serpentine]

Hey guys! I heard this song on the radio today. A protest song from the end of the 70s. It's pretty catchy.

On pansexual/bisexual: I'm fine with pansexual being used as a more semantically inclusive substitute for bisexual. My problems with the term - or rather, its occasional use - are the same as KenderWizard's.

On breastmilk: my sister tells me it tastes like caramel milk. At least, hers did...

On acupuncture: I certainly don't believe in the chi and "energy flow" and similar aspects, but I'm willing to consider the possibility that it has effects due to other factors, mostly on the basis of fairly dramatic anecdotal evidence. I think I've heard of something that's basically acupuncture but without the magical explanations...

[Qaera]

"If alternative medicine worked, it would be medicine."

~ ♅

[Lea Plath]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhGuXCuDb1U

That.

[Qaera]

That and the TED talk were what I was referencing :D

~ ♅

[Viera Champion]

As I just realized you guys clearly haven't been getting enough updates on my relationship.

[Selpharia]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhGuXCuDb1U

That.

I'll admit, that I'm not normally one for beat poetry, but that was fantastic and wonderful in so many ways.

[The Succubus]

"If alternative medicine worked, it would be medicine."

~ ♅

Hmmm, we should probably give this topic a little space as it usually tends to end in a huge arguement...

...but certain "alternative" therapies have been shown to have clinical benefit, acupuncture being one of the more provable ones. The hospital I work at (it's a private hospital) does actually have an established acupuncture treatment centre and their success rate is quite surprising.

I would never recommend relying *solely* on treatments like massage and acupuncture as a replacement for surgery and medication but when used in conjunction, it can often speed up recovery and reduce patient symptoms.

I think that's all I can really say without going into more detail than I should. =)

[supernerd]

Just be careful or you might get ectoplasma in your eye.

Day=made

Well, I think we're mixing Kleins. Felix Klein came up with the Klein bottle, and Fritz Klein came up with the Klein scale.

Those are both very interesting. Very, very interesting. I haven't actually filled out the grid, but I anticipate a very high score.

Does it count if I had no idea what I was doing when it happened for whole life up to a year ago sexual behavior?

I also want to own one of those bottles... It seems effective for holding things.

It has to be three-dimensional somehow. I'm picturing two parallel scales running from zero to ten. One measures attraction to male-bodied people, and the other attraction to female-bodied people. One fills in the two bars up to wherever they want. No answer means asexual, "pure" androphilic would be 10 on the male-bodied scale, "pure" gynophilic would be 10 on the female-bodied scale, and "pure" bisexual would be 10 on both. Somebody who's bi but tends to prefer men might put a 10 on the male-bodied scale and a 6 on the female-bodied scale. That's about as complex as anything needs to be. Thoughts? (I'm not trying to exclude pansexuals or any other groups; I just threw this thought together in a few seconds and don't know how to fit them in or if they even need to be a separate scale.)

That sounds really good.

Or:
Question X-1
Are you sexual?
1) Yes (go to question X)
2) No (go to question Y)

Question X
How sexually attracted are you to males on a scale of 1 to 5 where 1 is not attracted to at all and 5 is very attracted to?:

1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5

Question X+1

How sexually attracted are you to females on a scale of 1 to 5 where 1 is not attracted to at all and 5 is very attracted to?:

1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5

Question Y:
Have you ever felt romantic feelings towards someone or could you see yourselves having romantic feelings towards someone in the future?
1) Yes (got to question Z)
2) No (go to question M)

And so forth.
Yay for having a mandatory class on how to design surveys.

So is this one.

How about a day where the men eat sausages and the women eat tacos!

I love all varieties of sausage! Except the spicy ones, I hate spicy food...

[noparlpf]

I like sausages. (I'm half German. Stereotypes are always accurate!)

[SiuiS]

From what I understand, acupuncture has been shown to have some benefits to health, but I'll need to find the artcile about it.

And nothing can be better than a pot of proper milk vanilla ice cream. Yum <3

Placebo effect.

But where does that leave demisexuals and pansexuals?

With an asterisk after A- and Bi, respectively?

Could easily stimulate blood flow or some such. Question is, is that helpful or neutral (or harmful, but I doubt it)?

Mostly placebo, but also a lot of 'getting attention makes you feel better on a physiological scale'.

A man I know tells me his father, unable to go under anaesthetic due to allergy problems, had an acupuncture practitioner fly in from China (they're Swiss, apparently this was covered by their insurance. Wow!) and isolate a nerve in his neck and stick a needle in it so his arm went totally numb and they could do surgery on his shoulder. That seems beyond placebo!

Edit:
I talk too much, it takes too long for me to make my posts. My headache isn't helping!

Well, that makes sense from a western point of view. Sounds dangerous as all get-out though; probably why he was a specialist.

That is the best catchphrase ever.

Oh man is it!

Not to be the grim Kobold of today, but that might be far more dangerous than it sounds. I can't find the link, but I recently read a site talking about the cases where pseudoscience caused actual harm (to disspell the idea that homeopathy and others are harmless), and... Well, the needless punctured the lungs. ;_;

What? That's insane. There are like, two inches of viscera between the lungs and skin. That gross incompetence, not restricted to homeopathy at all.

Case in point, I broke my hand. I had them trying to put it in a splint before the x-rays were done - "it's probably just a hairline fracture", despite the bone pressing against the skin. "are you allergic to anything?" penicillin. "great, so no allergies then."

On a slightly less grim topic, I quite agree that pansexuality and bisexuality are both equally valid. As long as everybody is having fun and not backtalking the other words, it should be fine.

Pretty much. I figured bi- was "likes boys and girls" and pan- was "doesn't really care, I like people". And hey, it's their label, let dm have what they want (universally) so long as it doesn't cause actual conflict.

One problem is that many acupuncturists do not grasp that there's a need for keeping needles sterile. And if they practice what they preach, they shouldn't think so - after all, diseases are caused by disrupted energy flow along the meridians, not by bacteria or viruses. So abscesses and transfer of blood-borne diseases are rather common compared to when you go to a real hospital.

This is untrue, and is again, negligence. There's a difference between accepting something outside of documented scope, and denying empirical data (empirical is one of those words I'm never quite sure I'm spelling right...)

"If alternative medicine worked, it would be medicine."

~ ♅

"if being gay were valid, they wouldn't need their own labels."

Hmmm, we should probably give this topic a little space as it usually tends to end in a huge arguement...

...but certain "alternative" therapies have been shown to have clinical benefit, acupuncture being one of the more provable ones. The hospital I work at (it's a private hospital) does actually have an established acupuncture treatment centre and their success rate is quite surprising.

I would never recommend relying *solely* on treatments like massage and acupuncture as a replacement for surgery and medication but when used in conjunction, it can often speed up recovery and reduce patient symptoms.

I think that's all I can really say without going into more detail than I should. =)

Shiatsu, the Japanese derivative of traditional Chinese medicine, works differently here in the states than there.

Most western practitioners treat it like some mystic voodoo, all about feel-good nambly pambly "chee" and ley lines in the body, and have fancy certificates from Internet seminars. Most Japanese practitioners roll their eyes and curse about the terrible western abuse, reconcile the system with the biomedical model and trim the fat, discarding and updating in accurate techniques and information.

[Arachu]

So much of me wants to be ethereal(assuming ghost) right now...

Oh, to be a Psion...

How about a day where the men eat sausages and the women eat tacos!

If I didn't hate food-based euphemisms (and those actual foods, for some reason I can't pin down) so much, I'd agree wholeheartedly. I still do.

I was thinking x and y, so a plane. (0,0) being asexual, then y-axis being "attracted to men" and x-axis being "attracted to women". Very simplistic. Then you could add z-axis for more complexity. And you could track through time by having a line or a curve rather than a point.

Maybe one of those circle-compass-looking graphs would be more appropriate? X could represent preference for feminity and Y masculinity (androgyny would be around the midpoint, and indifference to a given sex would be about {0}).

Z would be romanticism (it'd also make the graph spherical). It'd form eight cuboid quadrants ("octrants"?) in relation to X and Y. A higher Z value (that is to say, one 'closer to the viewer') would imply a higher priority/preference for romantic relationships, and it would describe how romantic one is in regards to which sex in terms of X and Y.

Then there'd be W, which would probably be a curve of some sort that corresponds to the passage of time.

The diagram itself would support a 5-dimensional linear program capable of describing just how much of a nerd I am. DXD

In other topics is there a special word in english for the cover you use on you when you sleep or is it just a cover?

I'm not certain. I use "blanket" for anything heavy enough to keep you warm and "sheet" for anything meant to keep you cool. And occasionally "jacket", when there happen to be no beds available where I happen to be.

As I just realized you guys clearly haven't been getting enough updates on my relationship.

No. No I we don't. You should fill us in. :nosy:


~Bianca

[Selpharia]

From my understanding, acupuncture, and indeed the majority of what would be considered traditional Chinese medicine, sprung from the practices of Taoists searching for magical elixirs, and in the process accidentally sciencing. Rather like the pursuit of alchemy in Europe, as it happens.

It's kind of funny, though, since even Japanese professional medicine, which is certainly up to any standard you want to pick, has a few carryovers from traditional medicine that don't seem like they'd have much value, for example, doctors tend to suggest not taking baths if it can be avoided for the duration of an illness.

[pedantry] I believe the word is octants [/pedantry]

[Kindablue]

I performed in a concert today, and actually talked quite a bit more than I do on a daily basis. Is there a make-up day for this or something?

"if being gay were valid, they wouldn't need their own labels."

Science doesn't care. At it's truest, it's without politics, without values, and without culture. It's a slow, arduous pursuit of the truth, and not the Truth. Being "valid," being true, just means that whatever it is has proven itself through that brutal process. There have been times when the consensus of scientific experts has taken a bit of prodding before accepting the truth, but the truth has always won. Medicine isn't purely scientific (as a lot of subjective judgements need to be made in order for it to be practical), but it will not accept an "alternative." Medicine will not allow cultural differences to blind it to things that work; and if they do work, it will use them and they will become "medicine." That's what that quote means.

Shiatsu, the Japanese derivative of traditional Chinese medicine, works differently here in the states than there.

Is it? I didn't know that. Most traditional Japanese music is derivative of Chinese music that the Chinese moved away from 1500 years ago (I might be over shooting that a bit), sort of like how you can find music still being actively played in Appalachia that's more traditionally English than anything you'll find in England. Anyway, that's interesting.

ETA:

Hey guys! I heard this song on the radio today. A protest song from the end of the 70s. It's pretty catchy.

Thanks! I really liked that.

[SiuiS]

Science doesn't care. At it's truest, it's without politics, without values, and without culture. It's a slow, arduous pursuit of the truth, and not the Truth. Being "valid," being true, just means that whatever it is has proven itself through that brutal process. There have been times when the consensus of scientific experts has taken a bit of prodding before accepting the truth, but the truth has always won. Medicine isn't purely scientific (as a lot of subjective judgements need to be made in order for it to be practical), but it will not accept an "alternative." Medicine will not allow cultural differences to blind it to things that work; and if they do work, it will use them and they will become "medicine."

My concern is that however valid the process, the Pattern the top, the heuristic people take away and wield as cudgels without thought, is 'science is Truth'.

In the same way that having 'relationships' and 'gay relationships' is a bad thing, I think saying "if it were real, we wouldn't have to qualify it" is a bad argument.

That's what that quote means.

I could not be sure that's how it was used however.
I also do not think everything is better without the human component; I get malky when I read something as "people don't matter".

Is it? I didn't know that. Most traditional Japanese music is derivative of Chinese music that the Chinese moved away from 1500 years ago (I might be over shooting that a bit), sort of like how you can find music still being actively played in Appalachia that's more traditionally English than anything you'll find in England. Anyway, that's interesting.

One of the teachers at my school thought so. Apparently he went on a short trip that ended up being ten years long, where he had the excess pseudoscience slapped out of him and was reeducated. Not all homeopathic newage hogwash is equal, I guess.

[Kindablue]

My concern is that however valid the process, the Pattern the top, the heuristic people take away and wield as cudgels without thought, is 'science is Truth'.

Individual people don't matter, though, in this context. The consensus opinion is important because it's the gestalt (I ****ing love that word so much) of expert opinions on a subject. And the consensus can also be wrong because they're still just people. It's not as likely since they're all also cut throat bastards who are trying to make names for themselves and would all love to be the one who figured out how to cure scoliosis through massage or the common cold through snot diluted in water, etc.

In the same way that having 'relationships' and 'gay relationships' is a bad thing, I think saying "if it were real, we wouldn't have to qualify it" is a bad argument.

I won't speak for Qaera's motivations or whatever, but what that quote originally meant is that alternative medicine isn't wrong because it's called alternative medicine, it's alternative medicine because it's wrong.

I could not be sure that's how it was used however.
I also do not think everything is better without the human component; I get malky when I read something as "people don't matter".

But that's what I said. Doctors are extremely important in medicine because they have to make subjective calls based on their experience and training. People don't matter to science, but they sure as hell matter to medicine.

[Asta Kask]

As I just realized you guys clearly haven't been getting enough updates on my relationship.

That is correct. Have you kissed yet?

[supernerd]

As I just realized you guys clearly haven't been getting enough updates on my relationship.

And why would that be? Has Shiro been too "busy" to come and talk to us? :raisedeyebrow: Hmmmmmmmmm*?

*this is Yoda's "Hmmmmmmmmm"

[golentan]

And swinging more towards gay again I think.

I spent much of work today checking out a hot asian guy who couldn't make up his mind about what to get.

[SiuiS]

I won't speak for Qaera's motivations or whatever

I don't want to either, and hope that's not how I came across.

And swinging more towards gay again I think.

I spent much of work today checking out a hot asian guy who couldn't make up his mind about what to get.

I totally misconstrued what 'couldn't make up his mind' meant at first.

[golentan]

I kinda doubt he even noticed me.

[MilesTiden]

Wow. I just realize that whatever I have to contribute to this thread consists largely of apathy and meh. That is actually how I describe my gender and sexuality.

Oh, hey, I am a guy... being a girl would be cool, I guess... I would probably prefer it. But I have no objections to being a guy... I do not really care.

And I like who I like. But I do not particularly care... seeing as I am effectively in a relationship, and am purely monagamous. And... do not particularly feel any stronger feelings towards people of whatever gender or whatever. *shrug* I like one girl, she likes me. Woohoo. *shrug*

Even my voice and appearance are just... meh. I am very androgynous, and my voice sounds sometimes feminine, sometimes... non-feminine. I am not masculine at all. I will act feminine occasionally... I am mostly just crazy. I am gendermeh, and mehsexual. Of course, apathy is my driving emotion, pretty much.

Also, I heard mention of SiuiS in a bikini...? >_> <_<

[Heliomance]

In other topics is there a special word in english for the cover you use on you when you sleep or is it just a cover?

Do you refer to a blanket (single layer, woven or knitted, often fluffy) or a duvet (thick, traditionally stuffed with down I think, these days stuffed with some synthetic)?

[golentan]

Do you refer to a blanket (single layer, woven or knitted, often fluffy) or a duvet (thick, traditionally stuffed with down I think, these days stuffed with some synthetic)?

Don't forget the option of a comforter or quilt.

[Asta Kask]

How has being cis affected your lives?

[KenderWizard]

There's something called opportunity cost. I don't know how much money the promotion of the Day of Silence cost, and it probably isn't much, but could the money, could the time, could the enthusiasm be used better. That's something anyone who has limited resources has to consider.

Now, we don't know that it helps. For all we know it hurts - we have no less data supporting that. Does it raise consciousness? We don't know. Do people remember this the week after? We don't know.

It's been 16 years - an evaluation would be nice, otherwise we don't know whether we should be doing this or something else.

Absolutely, we should check to see what the effects are, but better this than nothing. It's not always a choice between doing this or doing something more useful. Often it's a choice between doing this one thing or not.

Not to be the grim Kobold of today, but that might be far more dangerous than it sounds. I can't find the link, but I recently read a site talking about the cases where pseudoscience caused actual harm (to disspell the idea that homeopathy and others are harmless), and... Well, the needless punctured the lungs. ;_;

I also heard about a case like that, from my doctor. He was like "Probably won't hurt, if you want to get it. Unless they puncture your lung, of course."

Anyway, to clarify, I will NOT be getting anyone to stick needles in me. I'm actually just not getting acupuncture and spending the money on bagels and yoga anyway.

I go beyond skepticism for homeopathy and say that it's quite frankly offensive to anyone that studies and practices real actual medicine and dangerous for the poor people that believe in this crap and I will go out of my way to verbally state my offense to people that peddle this crap.

Acupuncture on the other hand is still in the iffy area and I've both seen studies that show that it has the same effect as a placebo and studies that show it has slightly better effect then a placebo on certain things like anxiety and stress. Still I would be very skeptical and if someone actually decides to have it done to them (although I'd probably advise against it) make sure the needles are sterile.

In other topics is there a special word in english for the cover you use on you when you sleep or is it just a cover?

There are several words. Blanket is any big flat fabric thing that you can cover yourself with, it's a general word for anything from a large rectangle of thin fleece fabric to anything more complicated. A duvet is standard here, which would be a big puffy stuffed blanket, usually kept inside a cotton sheath called a "duvet cover" so the duvet doesn't need to be washed too often. A quilt would be a more traditional kind of blanket, and still popular, made of fabric squares and stuffed. Still made by hand as a project or a gift. Then if you don't have a duvet cover on your duvet or you're using a quilt (quilts are often pretty, so you don't want to cover them, whereas duvets are just white and boring, and the duvet covers are pretty) you would have a sheet, a big rectangle of cotton or linen, between you and the blanket. You would also put a sheet on the mattress to keep that clean too.

Also, I agree with you about homeopathy and acupuncture.

"If alternative medicine worked, it would be medicine."

~ ♅

[Heliomance]

Don't forget the option of a comforter or quilt.

I believe in common parlance these days, quilt and duvet are synonymous. I don't actually know what a comforter is.

ION, I want to use this as my gender symbol.

[Lady Serpentine]

I believe in common parlance these days, quilt and duvet are synonymous. I don't actually know what a comforter is.

From the descriptions of duvets that you and Kender provided, it would be synonymous with a duvet as well (though a quilt doesn't seem to fit terribly well with either of your descriptions of a duvet ).

[Heliomance]

Quilt I believe used to refer to the type that was made in bits - either squares or hexagons usually - but they've become rare enough nowadays that I think the word has mutated to refer to duvets as well. Well, this side of the puddle, anyway. Apparently they're still popular in Ireland.

(Incidentally, duvet is pronounced as the French - dyoo-vay)

[MilesTiden]

I gave the colorguard permission to paint my nails next band trip. Something tells me they will somehow get me in drag by the end of the day. Again. This is a thing that has happened before. Twice. But this time I am actually giving them permission, just because. And beside, 'colorguard got to me' is a perfect excuse if my parents start asking awkward questions. I have tried to get my hair braided, but that did not work out to well. And my friends keep trying to give me skirts and dresses.

... I think they may be, very subtly, trying to make a point.

Although, I actually like skirts. They're swishy and soft.

EDIT: Over here in the Fabulosity Bay, I almost never hear them called duvets. Just comforters, quilts, and blankets.

[Lady Serpentine]

Quilt I believe used to refer to the type that was made in bits - either squares or hexagons usually - but they've become rare enough nowadays that I think the word has mutated to refer to duvets as well. Well, this side of the puddle, anyway. Apparently they're still popular in Ireland.

(Incidentally, duvet is pronounced as the French - dyoo-vay)

*Glares at international communities for being confusing*

It most likely has in most places. I just haven't heard anyone refer to that type of human-cover in quite a while, blanketry not being the most common subject of conversation where I live, save for seeing a few cases where bit-quilts were being sold or discussed. Possibly the continued usage of the term in its original form here is a regionalism?