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2013-04-13, 09:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]
I must say I also question the wisdom of divine damage.
Should be workable as early as an 8th level build, probably a rogue-alike including dimension door, ethereal step, natural invisibility and four tentacles. That is a grand total of five out of the 34 (minimum) mutations the character will have avaiable.
Other potential mutations could be Abduct (Outsider list), Frightful Presence, Damage Reduction (or greater damage reduction in elemental), Fast Healing and Fragrance (Plant, reworked as unsettling presence instead of narcotic scent).
Build rounder mutations would be ability score increases (Str, Dex), Natural Armor, basic benefits (BAB, skills, saves) and possibly some skill bonus mutations.
Teratomorphisms would be: I - open. II - Size Increase. III - Perhaps regeneration.
All in all a few proper feats would make it a great area control/debuffer/tank.
As it stands, it is mostly limited to the area of the Grove. Also the fact that animated objects aren't that impressive and actually much easier to destroy than their inanimate counterparts.
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2013-04-13, 11:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]
Speaking of minimum, are there any good ways left of gaining additional mutation? A consumable might be in order (my calculations places a single mutation at a cost of about 10 grand).
If you see me talking about Shaper Psions, assume that anything not poison immune within 100 feet will be dead.
My Homebrew Signature such as it is.
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2013-04-13, 12:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2010
Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]
I had the template in mind a while back, but the class came to mind relatively recently. Perhaps they can be of some use to you.
Also is the Epic Evolutionist supposed to get less mutations per level than the other Evolutionist classes?
Supreme Evolutionist
'If you are a king among men, then I am a god among kings.' A Supreme Evolutionist to an Evolutionist
The average Evolutionist is a person that seeks to become something better, but there is no such thing as an average Supreme Evolutionist. Supreme Evolutionists are the ones that stand out amongst the gifted, and display potential unmatched by their unwashed brethren.
Entry Requirements
Feats: Any mutator feat
Skills: 8 ranks in three of the following skills, Knowledge (Arcana, Dungeoneering, Local, Nature, Psionics, Religion, or The Planes)
HD: d8
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special
1st|+0|+0|+0|+0|Mutations, Superior Mutations (+1)
2nd|+1|+0|+0|+0|Mutations
3rd|+1|+1|+1|+1|Mutations, Superior Mutations (+2)
4th|+2|+1|+1|+1|Mutations
5th|+2|+1|+1|+1|Mutations, Superior Mutations (+3)
6th|+3|+2|+2|+2|Mutations
7th|+3|+2|+2|+2|Mutations, Superior Mutations (+4)
8th|+4|+2|+2|+2|Mutations
9th|+4|+3|+3|+3|Mutations, Superior Mutations (+5)
10th|+5|+3|+3|+3|Mutations, Supreme Adaptability
[/table]
Class Skills (2 + Int Modifier): The Supreme Evolutionist can choose the class skills of any one of their base classes to be their class skills for this class, this choice cannot be changed.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Supreme Evolutionists gain no new proficiencies with weapons or armor.
Mutations: The Supreme Evolutionist gains five mutations every odd level, and six mutations every even level. Whenever the Supreme Evolutionist gains a level, they may choose to lose up to two mutations that they have to gain an equal number of different mutations, they cannot choose to lose a mutation that would cause them to no longer qualify for another mutation, feat or prestige class.
Superior Mutations: The Supreme Evolutionist may treat their mutator level as one higher for the purpose of mutation limits. This ability increases at third level, and every two levels thereafter.
Supreme Adaptability: Beginning at tenth level the Supreme Evolutionist counts as having Mutant Ascendancy and Mutant Perfection for the purposes of qualifying for prestige classes and other character options.
Mutagenic
"Mutagenic" is a template that can be added to any living, corporeal creature with an intelligence score greater than 3 (referred to hereafter as the base creature).
Special Qualities: Mutagenic creatures gain one mutation per level. A Mutagenic creature treats all hit dice as half a mutator level unless the hit dice would count as a full mutator level. They have a minimum mutator level of one.
Level Adjustment: Same as base creature +2.Last edited by Tesla; 2013-04-13 at 01:01 PM.
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2013-04-13, 02:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]
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2013-04-13, 03:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]
I think I just got an idea for another mutator class, drawing inspiration from Lord Gareth's Harrowed, Boomwolf's Netherhost, and Soulblazer87's Demonblooded Warrior.
The idea is actually quite similar to the harrowed, a character with a beast trapped within them that mutates them and grants them there power, however, to access said power, they need to forge "links" to their beast within. With no links, they're essentially commoners with a better hit die and proficiencies. Each Link gives them a boost in power, but also gives them a higher chance of falling under their beast's influence, with a certain number of "Safe" Links that they could access without falling under its influence.
I think it'd be an interesting option for a mutator that's not the standard. What do you think Draken?
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2013-04-13, 03:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2010
Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]
I do not know where I got the idea that more classes had Ascendancy as a prerequisite. So that ability is less valuable than intended, but I admit that I am not sure how to shore it up without causing issues with the fact that each level of the class is rather valuable. Any thoughts on the class as a whole, or the following possible fix would be appreciated.
Supreme Adaptability: Beginning at tenth level the Supreme Evolutionist counts as having Mutant Ascendancy and Mutant Perfection for the purposes of qualifying for prestige classes and other character options. Additionally the Supreme Evolutionist's ability to alter their mutations increases even further. With one week of dedicated work the Supreme Evolutionist may lose any one mutation they have to gain a different one, they cannot choose to lose a mutation that would cause them to no longer qualify for another mutation, feat or prestige class.
I think the idea is an interesting one, as a powerful evil side can be fun. And because I have a character concept using a particular adaptation of another class I feel the need to quote the following.
I personally believe that there will never be enough homebrew in this particular area.
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2013-04-13, 06:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]
I am wondering how you could make this class not look too much like a harrowed or netherbeast who merely exchanged his class features (other than the blessed with suck/cursed with awesome aspect) for a mutation mechanism.
As an example of this issue. I spent a good deal of time trying to think of a way to make a dual progression class for Harrowed/Evolutionist, but gave up because every idea felt kinda like trying to make a dual progression for a Bard/Beguiler (aka: two classes that do essentially the same thing).
Edit: Tesla, when is that post by Owrtho from and why are you answering it here?Last edited by Draken; 2013-04-13 at 06:27 PM.
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2013-04-13, 06:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]
The idea I had is the beast is MUCH stronger than in the Harrowed, Demonblooded Warrior, or Netherhost and has "Sets" of abilities. These can be accessed with the Links I mentioned. The links/sets are what would make the class unique. They could exchange their links to fill different rolls, like the Evolutionist Anomaly only more variable and with a chance of losing control. It'd also have base features other than the Sets & Links based on the beast itself. It'd end up looking more like a Binder than a mutator by the end, but would have some very different options from a normal binder.
I'm probably going to take a stab at it in the next few weeks
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2013-04-13, 08:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]
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2013-04-14, 03:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
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Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]
Last edited by Mithril Leaf; 2013-04-14 at 03:32 PM.
If you see me talking about Shaper Psions, assume that anything not poison immune within 100 feet will be dead.
My Homebrew Signature such as it is.
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2013-04-15, 11:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
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Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]
I gave the Weaponthane ascendant a new ability at third level. Another one where you trade attack for a bonus. It's mainly so that you can't be truly shut down in the more common circumstances. And also swapped saves to strength. Tell me if it's too good.
Last edited by Mithril Leaf; 2013-04-15 at 11:01 AM.
If you see me talking about Shaper Psions, assume that anything not poison immune within 100 feet will be dead.
My Homebrew Signature such as it is.
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2013-04-15, 06:13 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2011
Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]
I have a few ideas for Periodic Element options for the Elemental Taratamorphisms.
Sand: associated with fire damage and Earth.
Heart of the Elements (Sand):
Your melee and ranged attacks with natural weapons deal one point of dessiccation damage (Sandstorm) for every taratamorphism you have. In addition, you are considered to have the Earth subtype for all purposes except for other taratamorphisms.
Control Elements (Sand): Control Sand, Haboob, Transmute Sand to Stone (Sandstorm)
Archon: Whenever you deal fire damage, the opponent must make a fortitude save or be dehydrated (fatigued) for one round.
Cataclysm Heart: You may raise a sandstorm around you at up to Hurricane intensity out to 10 feet, with lesser increments in 30 foot bands until the wind equalizes with the current area. You continually replenish the sand in the wind, and in an area without sand, you only leave 1d4 inches of sand covering.
I'll post more later on, but I'm open to suggestions.It's a falcon. Wearing a Fedora. Your argument is irrelevant.
Official Member of the No Cussing Club
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2013-04-15, 11:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]
Well we have the Paraelementals:
Ice
Magma
Ooze
Smoke
Then the quasielementals:
Ash
Dust
Lightning
Mineral
Radiance
Salt
Steam
Vacuum
Then there is also the other already existing full elementals:
Shadow
Storm
Taint
Ruin
Ectoplasm
Also, in Manual of the planes it mentions Wood as an element, so their's that too.Spoiler: Old Avatar by Aruiushttp://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q56/Zeritho/Koboldbard.png
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2013-04-16, 08:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2011
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- gehenna
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Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]
Come post a magic item to show that not all unique items are immensely powerful tools of the gods!
Jester of The Rudisplorkers Guild!!
My cool avatar by Kymme
My homebrew
trophies
The photo got removed, but I'm a silver trophy winner of Pathfinder Grab Bag XII: of Dungeons and Dragons
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2013-04-16, 09:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]
Strictly speaking, only the third group in that list requires fully new teratomorph sequences. Paraelementals are by definition a combination of the four basic ones and the quasimentals would theoretically require teratomorph sequences keyed to Negative and Positive energy.
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2013-04-16, 10:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2011
Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]
Even so, the presented Taratamorphisms don't grant sufficiently thematic abilities for some of the Paraelements.
Ice:
Heart of Winter: Your melee and ranged attacks with natural weapons deal 1d4 points of cold damage for every taratamorphism you possess. In addition, you gain the Cold subtype, but do not gain immunity to cold or vulnerability to fire, and you gain Cold Endurance (Frostburn) as a bonus feat.
Control Elements (Ice): I don't currently have access to the Spell Compendium, which probably has more appropriate spells than I can conjure up at the moment.
Archon: As Water.
Cataclysm Heart: Ice Age: You may lower the temperature within 100 feet of you by up to 20 degrees per mutator level. This imposes the dangers of cold in the area, and coats all solid surfaces (including, of course, any liquids frozen by the drop in temerature) in a slick layer of ice, mimicking the effects of a Grease spell. The DC for the Grease effect is constitution based.
Slime:
Heart of Slime: Your melee and ranged attacks with natural weapons deal an additional 1d4 points of acid damage for every taratamorphism you possess. In addition, you are considered to have the Earth subtype for all purposes other than additional taratamorphisms, and you gain the Endurance feat as a bonus feat. Suggestions for alternate bonus feats are welcome.
Control Elements suggestions: Ooze puppet is a likely candidate.
Archon: as Earth.
Cataclysm Heart: Difficult. Possibly combine difficult terrain for a radius around the Evolutionist which deals acid damage, or perhaps some sort of acid rain.
Storm:
Heart of the Storm: Your melee and ranged attacks with natural weapons deal an additional 1d4 electricity damage for every taratamorphism you have. In addition, you are considered to have the Air subtype for all purposes except other taratamorphisms.
Control Elements suggestions: Control Air or Control Winds, Sleet Storm, Control Weather (Storms only)
Archon: Whenever you deal electricity damage, the victims are entangled for one round as the currents interfere with their muscular controls.
Cataclysm Heart: You are constantly under the benefits of a Call Lightning Storm spell, except you may call one bolt for every five Mutator levels, and doing so is a free action (but only once per round). In addition, Heavy rain surrounds you out to 50 feet.
Mist: (Cold associated)
Heart of Mist: You gain the Air subtype, save for the purposes of other taratamorphisms, but you do not gain a flight speed. You gain a +1 bonus per taratamorphism you have on attack and damage rolls against opponents who cannot clearly see you (suffer miss chances from concealment against you). In addition, you gain Blind-Fight as a bonus feat.
Archon: As Water.
Cataclysm Heart: You are surrounded by the effects of an Obscuring Mist spell out to 60 feet. Within 40 feet, this instead becomes a Fog Cloud effect. At 20 feet, it thickens further to a Solid Fog effect, and within 10 feet the fog deals 4d6 damage per round to all enemies within. You ignore all these effects, being able to see and move freely and are not subject to the cold damage.
Smoke: Not many changes, except you may replace the Fire Archon ability with the effect of nauseating creatures damaged by your fire effects.It's a falcon. Wearing a Fedora. Your argument is irrelevant.
Official Member of the No Cussing Club
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2013-04-16, 06:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]
I think that slime should be changed to ooze and you should remove the sections about the subtypes not applying to terotomorphisms.
Spoiler: Old Avatar by Aruiushttp://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q56/Zeritho/Koboldbard.png
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2013-04-20, 02:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2006
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Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]
I have a suggestion- or at least a thought.
I like Arcane Capacity and Psychic Capacity, but both of them seem like they'd be problematic on level up. They can become completely useless if you're using them to get at will abilities and then they gain an extra use- you'll essentially have wasted a mutation, in that case. I do know you can switch out a mutation when you level up, but it seems like a kind of mutation that you could well take numerous times, and so the normal one mutation swapped out per level might not be enough.
Suffice to say, I think as soon as one of these feats naturally becomes redundant through level up, you should be able to replace them automatically. Perhaps there could be a clause for that?
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2013-04-20, 06:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]
Arcane Capacity and Psychic Capacity have always demanded more build considerations than most others. Nonetheless, I had some changes aimed at them to adress an issue that someone else informed me, namely the issue of at-will 6th level powers/spell.
I actually considered adding that with the latest rewrite, but it felt excessive to deal with a very extreme case (that might have been dealt with as of the last rewrite, since the issue most likely arises out of multiple spell-likes that had their daily uses increased).
Well. Changes made.
Changelog
Arcane Capacity - Redesigned. Now has a lot of charisma prerequisites, but it is also less of a mutation hog.
Spell-like Abilities - Now has a charisma prerequisite. Per spell level. Can't be uglier than a sorcerer but use the same level of powers.
Psi-like Abilities - Now has an intelligence prerequisite. Per power level. Can't be dumber than a psion and still do their tricks.
Psychic Capacity - Redesigned, same crap as Arcane Capacity, but int based.
These changes are mainly aimed at making at-will 5th and 6th spell-likes/psi-likes harder to get. Forcing the demand of some very high mental ability scores (36-38 to be precise).
I mean, it is not impossible, sure, but it is harder than it was before.Last edited by Draken; 2013-04-20 at 06:55 PM.
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2013-04-20, 07:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2012
Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]
Draken, I think there may have been ONE change log in which you did not break my things. Why, Draken? Why do you hate my builds?
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2013-04-20, 07:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]
Last edited by Draken; 2013-04-20 at 07:45 PM.
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2013-04-20, 07:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2008
Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]
Just to check, does this mean a character with 12 cha can apply it as many times as he likes to a first level spell, or does he need to get a 20 cha to apply it a second time, 28 for a third time, etc...
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2013-04-20, 07:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]
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2013-04-20, 08:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
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Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]
Once per four levels seems a bit extreme. You've already got a massive stat requirement, and at best characters will only be able to get a single sixth level spell at will. It's now far more effective to simply diversify and take 20 of each type, so that there's an answer to every problem in a single day. Having abilities at will isn't so much a balance issue as a plot/campaign world issue which is a lot less work if you've already accounted for the nature and prevalence of such abilities, which you should have if you're running any game with spellcasters.
If you see me talking about Shaper Psions, assume that anything not poison immune within 100 feet will be dead.
My Homebrew Signature such as it is.
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2013-04-20, 08:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]
I don't follow the initial argument. The old system made it easier to grab one or two at-will sixth levels, but the new way makes it harsher to get there, but you can get all the at-wills you want if you do (well, within the set limits anyway).
The 1/4 limit is in place because, strictly speaking, under the new system you only need to get the mutation nine times to have evertything be at-will. And 1/3 would give seven potential acquisitions already.
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2013-04-20, 08:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2010
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2013-04-20, 09:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2006
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Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]
I understand why you would want to put on the 1/4 limit, but I think it makes things awkward. If I want six specific powers at will, but they're from different levels, then I can't do that until epic level. Kinda weird, don't you think?
Besides that, I think the potential stat requirements now are pretty crazily high. You are definitely not going to meet those most of the time. I would tone that down a little.
An rough suggestion from me (haven't thought about this thoroughly) might be to keep the Capacity mutation based on a single power, but perhaps give it a scaling number of extra uses, whether on level or on the appropriate ability score.
I also want to voice an objection to make psi-likes based on Intelligence. A few observations on that point:
1) Psi-like abilities, like spell-like abilities, are based on Charisma by default.
2) Evolutionist has basically no other decent use for Intelligence. Charisma, on the other hand, sees use in numerous places- this makes psi-likes much less appealing than spell-likes, and more inclined towards MAD.
3) If you're looking to dissuade people from taking spell-likes and psi-likes, the need to spend mutations on both caster and manifester level is probably discouragement enough.
Also, on a random note, Disrupt Psionics is strictly inferior to Disrupt Magic. It's a small thing, but the Dispel Psionics power can't be used as a counterspell. Normally Dispel Psionics has the advantage of scaling beyond Dispel Magic, but you've removed that in your system. Perhaps you could add back in some minor advantage for the psionic version somehow?Last edited by AmberVael; 2013-04-20 at 09:32 PM.
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2013-04-20, 09:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]
If you see me talking about Shaper Psions, assume that anything not poison immune within 100 feet will be dead.
My Homebrew Signature such as it is.
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2013-04-22, 10:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2006
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Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]
Something odd I've noticed- under the Divine Blessing mutation, from the Outsider mutations, you list status as a possible spell. Divine Blessing lets you have a constant, personal spell effect from the list.
While I can theoretically think of some benefit from having Status as a personal spell, generally it's going to be exceptionally redundant, and the spell is definitely designed to be used on others. Was the intention to allow you to touch anyone and keep track of them via Status? Because as is, all it allows you to do is keep track of yourself.
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2013-04-22, 11:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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- In a SMB.
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