The better man? There is no such thing [base class]

[Draken]

I mean, someone COULD make a PrC that lets you turn into a true dragon regarding aging and size and all that jazz...

I don't think that is actually balanceable.

"Every century you become significantly more powerful in baseline numbers", sounds good on paper, but.

1. Lets be real, it will probably not ever come up in game so it may as well not be there.

2. If it does come up in game, it is not balanceable.

[Omnicrat]

I don't think that is actually balanceable.

"Every century you become significantly more powerful in baseline numbers", sounds good on paper, but.

1. Lets be real, it will probably not ever come up in game so it may as well not be there.

2. If it does come up in game, it is not balanceable.

I was thinking more you turn into a True Dragon that lays eggs, and those eggs grow up into what you are at time of laying (being their maximum potential) at time of laying. It probably gives a fair bit of size boosts. So, My idea was more Birther of Dragons than becoming a true dragon themselves.

[Yasahiro]

I was thinking more you turn into a True Dragon that lays eggs, and those eggs grow up into what you are at time of laying (being their maximum potential) at time of laying. It probably gives a fair bit of size boosts. So, My idea was more Birther of Dragons than becoming a true dragon themselves.

Make it as a PRC

[Omnicrat]

Make it as a PRC

Yes, that is what we were talking about. Making that idea as a PrC.

[Lateral]

So Energy Drain lists Ability:Charisma, but it doesn't mention a save in the text, and most Energy Drain abilities only offer a save to avoid level loss the next day. Does that ability allow a saving throw to avoid the negative levels entirely, or just to avoid permanent level loss (which would only matter at epic levels)?

Also, your mutation limits table has a few errors. 1/4 ML at MLs 17-18 should be 5, not 4; 1/5 ML has a 3 at ML 9 when it should be 2, and a 2 at ML 11 where it should be 3.

[Draken]

I was thinking more you turn into a True Dragon that lays eggs, and those eggs grow up into what you are at time of laying (being their maximum potential) at time of laying. It probably gives a fair bit of size boosts. So, My idea was more Birther of Dragons than becoming a true dragon themselves.

Make it as a PRC

Yes, that is what we were talking about. Making that idea as a PrC.

This is sort of the progenitor's thing.

So Energy Drain lists Ability:Charisma, but it doesn't mention a save in the text, and most Energy Drain abilities only offer a save to avoid level loss the next day. Does that ability allow a saving throw to avoid the negative levels entirely, or just to avoid permanent level loss (which would only matter at epic levels)?

Also, your mutation limits table has a few errors. 1/4 ML at MLs 17-18 should be 5, not 4; 1/5 ML has a 3 at ML 9 when it should be 2, and a 2 at ML 11 where it should be 3.

I think it broke when forum tables got changed. The whole thing became so awful to deal with. Should be fixed.

As for Energy Drain, it only offers a save against permanent level loss one day later, aye.

[Lateral]

For Debilitate, when you add an extra type of ability penalty, are the bonuses tracked separately? For example, if you take Debilitate five times to inflict 1d3+4 STR penalty, and then take it one more time to inflict a CON penalty, would that CON penalty be 1d3 or 1d3+4?

[Necroticplague]

For Debilitate, when you add an extra type of ability penalty, are the bonuses tracked separately? For example, if you take Debilitate five times to inflict 1d3+4 STR penalty, and then take it one more time to inflict a CON penalty, would that CON penalty be 1d3 or 1d3+4?

The latter. You only have one penalty, you can just apply it to more abilities.

[Warmatt]

Back from a forced hiatus, and I got plans. Three in fact.


One, let us tap into the myths of the Phoenix, to create a Prestige Class based around mutating into one, lots of light, fire and healing ability. Sort of a Heal-lock with some elemental ability, that is murder against Undead and Evil Outsiders.

Second, and almost utterly opposed, let us see if it might be possible to find that Death is merely the beginning, empowering the Ghastly ones to rule over hordes of the once living, spreading darkness and the cold fury of the endless night in their wake.

Lastly, something Fae. Something, primal, yet.. well, let us get rid of the Seliee and Unseelie aspects, and tap more into the mystic heritage of the fey from myth and legend. Illusion, Enchantment, nature made not quite flesh, seemingly human, yet utterly alien.


Rough draft of the Life-Ember Prestige Class (Name a WIP, and feel free to suggest better) should be up in 2-3 days.

[Defiantnight]

I look forward to seeing them o:

[Warmatt]

Still have to design about twelve abilities for the Brightborn Mutator, but here are the core features for peaching/review.

Mutations; The Brightborn Mutator gains 3 mutations per level

Least Radiance; At 1st level, the Brightborn Mutator may add their charisma modifier to all fire and positive energy damage from spell-like or supernatural abilities.

Charisma and Constitution Boost; At 3rd, 6th and 9th level, the Brightborn Mutators Charisma and Constitution scores increase by 2

Lesser Radiance; At 4th level, all Undead and Outsiders with the Evil subtype take a sacred penalty to Armor Class, Attack rolls and Saves equal to the Brightborn Mutator’s constitution modifier inside the radius of their Light Mutation. The penalty is doubled if inside the range of the Consecration Mutation.


In addition, at 8th level, Outsiders with the Evil subtype in the range of the Brightborn Mutators light mutation are damaged by positive energy as if they were undead.


Body of Radiant Flame; As they progress to becoming a Phoenix, their body becomes less flesh and blood, and more solid light and flame. At 5th level, a Brightborn Mutator is immune to Poison and Disease of all kinds, and it would by pass this immunity they gain a racial save bonus equal to their Brightborn Mutator level.


At 10th level, this ability improves, and their immunity may not be bypassed by any means.


Radiance; At 8th Level, a Brightborn mutator adds their charisma modifier to each die of Fire and Positive Energy damage from spell-like or supernatural abilities. If they have the Holy Grace Mutation, they may also add their constitution modifier to their saving throws. If they have the Divine Ward Mutation, they may also add their constitution to their deflection bonus.


Aura of Radiant Flame; At 9th level, the Brightborn Mutator is a beacon in the darkness, a creature whose vital energies roar outwards, carried on his very light. While inside the range of his Light Mutation, Undead and Outsiders with the Evil Subtype take Solar Damage equal to the Brightborn Mutators Charisma and Constitution Modifiers. Solar damage is the combination of fire and positive energy, much like how Uttercold is the combination of Cold and Negative Energy.


The damage dealt is doubled inside the range of the consecration mutation, if the Brightborn Mutator counts as the altar of a good god.


Glorious Radiance; At 10th level, the sheer light and vitality of the Brightborn Mutator knows no bounds! As their soul sears it’s way to life, they complete the transformation into a Phoenix, a creature of the sun at once powerful healers, and destructive harbingers of woe. But, no matter how many times, they never really fall.


A number of times per day equal to their charisma modifier, they are subject to a True Resurrection, Regenerate, Greater Restoration Remove Disease, Neutralize Poison and Break Enchantment effect when they die, emerging from their ashes one round after their death, in the picture of health.

So, thoughts, ideas, tweaks?

[Defiantnight]

It's always amused me to wonder when someone would come up with "Well, I'm immune to your immunity-peircing."

Unrelated to the above post, I've been curious, the elemental teratomorphs hand out elemental subtypes. It seems to specify that they don't get their normal fly/swim speed, but are they immune to the elemental damage of their type and vulnerable to the opposite as normal for the elemental subtypes?

Edit: Oh, sorry, forgot to critique :D
At 8th level you're super-immune to disease and poison, why neutralize poison and remove disease on ressurection?

[Draken]

Ok, I will be blunt.

The proposed capstone is excessive. There are a bunch of ways to cheat death available to evolutionists but, generally speaking, they have a small number of inconveniences. Mainly losing your original body and anything that was on it, along with a few days while you regrow from your seeds/magical curse circle/miles-wide extradimentional soulspace.

None of them are instantaneous and bloody hell, none of them are doable 10+ times per day.

I mean, honestly, if you are dying every other hour, you are doing something very wrong.

[Warmatt]

I may have wrote the capstone first. Entire reason for the overlapping effects. That, and I already have the second draft of the capstone to work as a True Resurrection effect, one round later, shed all negative things... but only have Charisma Modifier*Brightborn Mutator level HP, as well as a -2 stacking racial penalty to all ability scores for a week, that Glorious Radiance or anything else does not remove. And really, that just covers getting killed via 'killed'. How many ways are there again to take someone out are there that are not lethal? As is, you just have to pummel them repeatedly to death to get it to stick.

So, get killed the first time? You get a minor penalty to everything for a day, big whoop. At the same time? You are not returning into a nice, safe environment. You are returning 1 round later, with massively lower HP, into a combat situation, where you might get killed off again. And come back even easier to kill off. Rinse and repeat. And of course, any non-magical items are destroyed, magical items get a saving throw to avoid taking fire damage. And if they survive? They are not equipped when you return.

The second draft may have been a more... "Damn, that thing I wrote to be cool is just a bit overpowered".

[Rizban]

It could just leave an egg behind that takes X amount of time to hatch. You come back as essentially a new creature similar to the reincarnate spell.

[Defiantnight]

Any er, reply to my question about elemental subtypes and immunities? Cold and fire are stated to explicitly grant them as subtype rules, I'm not sure if that's supposed to be kept.

[Necroticplague]

Any er, reply to my question about elemental subtypes and immunities? Cold and fire are stated to explicitly grant them as subtype rules, I'm not sure if that's supposed to be kept.

Um, the answer is fairly obvious.

Heart of the Elements [Fire]: The evolutionist gains the Fire subtype. His melee and ranged attacks with natural weapons deal an additional 1d4 points of fire damage for each teratomorphism he has. Unlike normal for the fire subtype, the evolutionist does not gain immunity to fire and does not gain vulnerability to cold. Lastly, the evolutionist gains Heat Endurance (Sandstorm) as a bonus feat.

Also, none of them give you the cold subtype. They give water, fire, earth, or air. No cold.

[Defiantnight]

Oh O.o
I don't know why I was asking then, I guess I just forgot, sorry.

[Just to Browse]

Hey Draken, after taking many breaks from D&D over several years, it's amazing to come back every time and see that this thread is still alive and thriving. You've obviously made a fantastic piece of homebrew for it to be popular for so long. Kudos.

[Defiantnight]

Is Overdrive supposed to leave out reflex when upgrading? It seems a little odd.

[Draken]

Is Overdrive supposed to leave out reflex when upgrading? It seems a little odd.

It is, yes.

[Omnicrat]

So, is there any ETA on that big update Draken talked about months ago?

Is that still coming?

I want me some craft (genetics)!

[WarHunter]

I used this gesalted with Shifter to create bosses for an evial campaign- it fell apart due to players being unavailable.

[Defiantnight]

Any creature damaged by this ability must make a fortitude save or be blinded for 1 round (or 1 minute if undead, vulnerable to light or if it has light sensitivity).

I know undead are obviously supposed to be affected by this, but a rules-lawyer has pointed out that technically as written their non-ability of Constitution makes them immune still. I said that since undead are given as an example it means they're an exception, but he says RAW they're immune to the blinding.

I feel like even if he's right he's too strict about the RAW, since it calls undead out.

[Omnicrat]

I know undead are obviously supposed to be affected by this, but a rules-lawyer has pointed out that technically as written their non-ability of Constitution makes them immune still. I said that since undead are given as an example it means they're an exception, but he says RAW they're immune to the blinding.

I feel like even if he's right he's too strict about the RAW, since it calls undead out.

It comes down to fiat in the end, but specific beats general, as a rule. Since this calls out undead specifically, that trumps any general rule that undead would not be effected.

[Defiantnight]

It comes down to fiat in the end, but specific beats general, as a rule. Since this calls out undead specifically, that trumps any general rule that undead would not be effected.

Cool, thanks

[Draken]

I know undead are obviously supposed to be affected by this, but a rules-lawyer has pointed out that technically as written their non-ability of Constitution makes them immune still. I said that since undead are given as an example it means they're an exception, but he says RAW they're immune to the blinding.

I feel like even if he's right he's too strict about the RAW, since it calls undead out.

Undead are still subject to fortitude saves that would affect objects, which the ability mentioned, being merely damage (typeless damage, at that), does.

Because it is important to note that the fortitude save is for half damage, the blinding is merely a rider, and objects are still subject to damage.

It could be difficult to interpret the rule given that the majority of fortitude-based damage abilities WotC released specifically target living creatures and as such there aren't really that many parallels to draw in this particular scenario, but there you have it.

[Defiantnight]

Undead are still subject to fortitude saves that would affect objects, which the ability mentioned, being merely damage (typeless damage, at that), does.

Because it is important to note that the fortitude save is for half damage, the blinding is merely a rider, and objects are still subject to damage.

It could be difficult to interpret the rule given that the majority of fortitude-based damage abilities WotC released specifically target living creatures and as such there aren't really that many parallels to draw in this particular scenario, but there you have it.

Ah, that makes it more clear.
Gives me something to justify some other things too, thanks

[Orderic]

According to the ability, the save for half is a reflex save and blindness has a separate fortitude save.

[Draken]

According to the ability, the save for half is a reflex save and blindness has a separate fortitude save.

Memory derp it is. Specific trumps general then.

The explanation still stands for a bunch of other things anyway, probably.