The better man? There is no such thing [base class]

[Draken]

Bumping with a semi-relevant bit of talk.

I think that there should be a Fey set of mutations, as in the sort you get from those mutator feats. Speaking of the feats, there is a lack of simple ones, like a feat to give one or two extra mutations. And a small bit of rearranging of the setup, if only in a note, to make it directly compatible with the Swarmlord so you can use your Swarmlord levels to pay for evolutionist Mutations and vice versa.

That feat used to exist. I removed it due to simply being an one-true-choice in more or less any situation.

Necrotic addressed the issue of Fey mutations, there is simply no real material for me to use there. Fey are more about the quirks of their personality than about the unique powers they have.

And I am not sure what the idea is with the Swarmlord retrocompatibility. They use significantly different mechanics. The only synergy they really need is for a Swarmlord to add an Evolutionist to his/her Swarm, ideally a High Evolutionary. Abathur.

[Morphic tide]

This runs face-first into the same problem as introducing Ooze or Vermin as types: what would you bring? All the main notable abilities of fey are already there, there's already a fey teratomorphism. Fey is built into the base of the class as it is.

Sorry, should have checked before posting.

That feat used to exist. I removed it due to simply being an one-true-choice in more or less any situation.

Necrotic addressed the issue of Fey mutations, there is simply no real material for me to use there. Fey are more about the quirks of their personality than about the unique powers they have.

And I am not sure what the idea is with the Swarmlord retrocompatibility. They use significantly different mechanics. The only synergy they really need is for a Swarmlord to add an Evolutionist to his/her Swarm, ideally a High Evolutionary. Abathur.

What I mean is have them share a power type, to make it so that they have a similar level of compatibility to what Wizards and Sorcerers or Psions and Wilders have. Their theme is highly similar, carried out differently. Make both use Mutator levels, maybe add a bit for converting between Mutations and Evolution points, little things like that. The converting being something like 1 or 2 Evolution points for each level it takes to get the next rank of the mutation and 3 or 4 Evolution points per mutation. Just one or two sentences on it, really. I'll probably just add that to the list of things to write up, make it an alternate version of this built on the Evolution points and add some Swarmlord PRCs because that thread got locked. Possibly write more Theurge PRC stuff for things like Gramarie and an actual Theurge for the Swarmlord's stuff. Might make it a whole other thing...

[Draken]

I can't make the Swarmlord do anything, it is not my work.

Also, Psions, Wilders, Sorcerers and Wizards multiclass terribly.

[Defiantnight]

Do Hardy Damage Reduction, Aligned Damage Reduction, and Material Damage Reduction stack? I'm not sure using four mutations to get DR 3/Magic and slashing and law and adamantine is the best way to use them, but do they stack into ands or change it so DR slashing becomes DR law?

[Necroticplague]

Do Hardy Damage Reduction, Aligned Damage Reduction, and Material Damage Reduction stack? I'm not sure using four mutations to get DR 3/Magic and slashing and law and adamantine is the best way to use them, but do they stack into ands or change it so DR slashing becomes DR law?

Yes. All of them say that the weapon needs to meet certain criteria. All of those simply add more criteria.

[Defiantnight]

Yes. All of them say that the weapon needs to meet certain criteria. All of those simply add more criteria.

Wow, that was a quick response.

Cool, thank you.

[Morphic tide]

I can't make the Swarmlord do anything, it is not my work.

Also, Psions, Wilders, Sorcerers and Wizards multiclass terribly.

What I mean is a small note in this thread about compatibility, like saying 1 mutation is equivalent to some specific number of evolution points and having Swarmlord and associated PRCs count for Mutator level. And the multiclassing is not entirely terrible, because some of the class features and feat options stack together, like metamagic and metapsionic feats. And all effects dependent on manifester/caster level still go up. It's not entirely horrible, just sub-par, is what I meant

[Draken]

What I mean is a small note in this thread about compatibility, like saying 1 mutation is equivalent to some specific number of evolution points and having Swarmlord and associated PRCs count for Mutator level. And the multiclassing is not entirely terrible, because some of the class features and feat options stack together, like metamagic and metapsionic feats. And all effects dependent on manifester/caster level still go up. It's not entirely horrible, just sub-par, is what I meant

They actually don't! The caster/manifester levels for separate classes are separate.

That being said, there is mention next to where mutator level is explained that certain thematically fitting classes could be made to add to mutator level themselves, although which ones is left for individual tables to decide.

As for equivalence, it wouldn't really work. There is overlap in effects between what Evolutionists and Swarmlords can do, but what an evo can get for one mutation a Swarmlord can have to spend between 1 and 9 points for, there would simply be trouble on the side of the Swarmlord's mechanics.

That is not even to mention the simple fact that evolution points are the lowest and least important aspect of the Swarmlord's power.

[nikkoli]

Dire Body: The evolutionist’s appearance and demeanor become exponentially more ferocious. The damage die of all his natural weapons increase by one step and he gains a +1 bonus to attack rolls and natural armor plus another +1 bonus to attack rolls and natural armor for every two teratomorphisms he has. Lastly, he gains a bonus to intimidate checks equal to his mutator level.

Is the bonus to attacks only on natural attacks or attacks gained from this class or all attacks?

[Necroticplague]

Is the bonus to attacks only on natural attacks or attacks gained from this class or all attacks?

All attacks. It just says "attacks" with no qualifiers.

[Koalda Hermaus]

Hi. First time poster who loves the class and just wanted to clarify if the breath weapon mutation allows the character to pick up metabreath feats.

[Necroticplague]

Hi. First time poster who loves the class and just wanted to clarify if the breath weapon mutation allows the character to pick up metabreath feats.

Yes. Metabreath feats require a breath weapon who's cooldown is expressed in rounds. Thus, a Mutator, with a 5-round cooldown, qualifies.

[Orderic]

I also have a question concerning breath weapons. Is the damage die increase from Dragon Ascendancy 1d6->1d8->1d12 or 1d6->1d8->2d6?

[Necroticplague]

I also have a question concerning breath weapons. Is the damage die increase from Dragon Ascendancy 1d6->1d8->1d12 or 1d6->1d8->2d6?

The former. It says the singular "die". Getting more dice comes from levelling, the ascendancy makes each die bigger.

[Abadon]

Regarding the Grove mutation...

As written, when the mutator dies the grove is lost. Any exemption for when the mutator's death is known to be temporary due to innate or class abilities (rejuvenation teratomorphism, Esper Knight perfect soul, ghost rejuvenation, etc...), or if the mutator becomes undead/deathless (outside of mutant ascendency)?

When grove abilities are chosen based on temporary mutations or temporary teratomorphisms (Azure Form feat, Anomalous Mutation, Evolutionary Touch, etc...), what happens when or if those temporary effects are lost?


Which also brings up a question about the High Evolutionary's Evolutionary touch...
Can a High Evolutionary give a mutation that he has from the Azure form feat or Anomalous Mutation teratomorphism?

[Draken]

Regarding the Grove mutation...

As written, when the mutator dies the grove is lost. Any exemption for when the mutator's death is known to be temporary due to innate or class abilities (rejuvenation teratomorphism, Esper Knight perfect soul, ghost rejuvenation, etc...), or if the mutator becomes undead/deathless (outside of mutant ascendency)?

Extra text added to remedy this situation.

When grove abilities are chosen based on temporary mutations or temporary teratomorphisms (Azure Form feat, Anomalous Mutation, Evolutionary Touch, etc...), what happens when or if those temporary effects are lost?


Which also brings up a question about the High Evolutionary's Evolutionary touch...
Can a High Evolutionary give a mutation that he has from the Azure form feat or Anomalous Mutation teratomorphism?

Extra text added to the Granting Mutations entry to remedy the situation. Temporary Mutations cannot be granted.

There you go.

[Abadon]

There you go.

Much appreciated.

I take it you intend the grove to be treated as a creature in regards to using temporary mutations to augment it?

[Draken]

Much appreciated.

I take it you intend the grove to be treated as a creature in regards to using temporary mutations to augment it?

...? The grove is not a creature. It is a place.

[Abadon]

...? The grove is not a creature. It is a place.

One of my questions was:
"When grove abilities are chosen based on temporary mutations or temporary teratomorphisms (Azure Form feat, Anomalous Mutation, Evolutionary Touch, etc...), what happens when or if those temporary effects are lost?"

I take it I missed where you answered that?

[Draken]

One of my questions was:
"When grove abilities are chosen based on temporary mutations or temporary teratomorphisms (Azure Form feat, Anomalous Mutation, Evolutionary Touch, etc...), what happens when or if those temporary effects are lost?"

I take it I missed where you answered that?

Line expanded, temporary mutations can't serve as prerequisites for permanent ones.

[EdroGrimshell]

Line expanded, temporary mutations can't serve as prerequisites for permanent ones.

What about if they're from the same source? Such as Azure Form?

[Draken]

What about if they're from the same source? Such as Azure Form?

Well, then they aren't permanent are they?

[Abadon]

What about if they're from the same source? Such as Azure Form?

Using a temporary mutation to affect another temporary mutation, I.E.:

You put three essential in Azure Form and take the Grove, fungus, and nourishment mutations. Presumably the grove would be lost when you changed your mutation set, but while you have it can you then add either the garden or mire special features to the grove?

[Abadon]

Line expanded, temporary mutations can't serve as prerequisites for permanent ones.

How about serving using temporary mutations for permanent effects like the Create Spawn mutation...
Do you lose control when you lose the mutation or do you get to keep the cannon fodder?

[Draken]

How about serving using temporary mutations for permanent effects like the Create Spawn mutation...
Do you lose control when you lose the mutation or do you get to keep the cannon fodder?

Addressed. Also, entry renamed to Granting Mutations and Temporary Mutations.

[Omnicrat]

When and why was Arcane Capacity changed to once per two mutator levels?

[Draken]

When and why was Arcane Capacity changed to once per two mutator levels?

Long, long ago, there was a surge of redesigns for that mutation and its psionic twin. That was the result.

[Omnicrat]

Long, long ago, there was a surge of redesigns for that mutation and its psionic twin. That was the result.

Is there anyway you could be persuaded to make it once per mutator level again?

Or, at the very least, since you only get 10 now remove the fact that you can only apply it to a SLA mutation once?

Related: At epic levels, do uses per day advance for spell like abilities at the same rate of progress? Can you get 7th, 8th, and 9th level spell like abilities at epic levels?

[nikkoli]

So my friend and I are arguing over how the racial hit dice increasing mutator level would work in a gestalt/tristalt game. He is using a racial class we wrote up for titans, but is looking for his extra class.

Anyway he is thinking that because of the line saying that RHD count for increasing mutator level that he would net 2 mutator levels per character level.

I think that because the classes are mixed together to make a super class each hit die only counts for one mutator level. I understand that if it was single class he would be right, but getting double his mutator level for all effects would increase how fast he can get more powerful stuff repeatedly, like the ability boosts.

Either way, could we have some help?

[Orderic]

This is one of the reasons why, in my gestalt game, I have ruled, that you can't progress the same thing twice on a single level.