Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread II: Electric Boogaloo

[GPuzzle]

If I attack with a Hammer but it's technically a Ki Focus (namely, the ability Ki Foci have to connect to weapons), can I use Bludgeon Expertise's extra forced movement or not?

[NecroRebel]

A 447

Yes, but note that the linking effect works only on weapon attacks (as does Bludgeon Expertise's bonus).

[GPuzzle]

Whoa, that's nice. Time to update the Regenarator to permanent resist 34 all vs marked targets!

[GPuzzle]

I was thinking and I might have found a way to produce infinite damage.

A Warlord with an accurate MBA, the Helm of Heroes and Death From Two Sides together with a Ranger with good accuracy and Blade Cascade turn it into a "Warlord makes MBA, grants Ranger Standard Action, if both hit, Ranger automatically crits". Since Blade Cascade lasts until you miss, does that mean it's going to last forever, therefore generating infinite damage?

[georgie_leech]

A448 No

Though I'm not certain as to how the automatic critical interacts with multiple attack rolls, if nothing else Blade Cascade has been errata'd to have a limit making 5 attacks.

[Kurald Galain]

I was thinking and I might have found a way to produce infinite damage.

A Warlord with an accurate MBA, the Helm of Heroes and Death From Two Sides together with a Ranger with good accuracy and Blade Cascade turn it into a "Warlord makes MBA, grants Ranger Standard Action, if both hit, Ranger automatically crits". Since Blade Cascade lasts until you miss, does that mean it's going to last forever, therefore generating infinite damage?

A 448 In addition to what Georgie said, DFTS states that if both melee basic attacks hit, then one becomes a crit; if you replace your ally's MBA with something else (e.g. with Helm of Heroes) then it will simply not happen that "both melee basic attacks" hit. So the combo doesn't work.

[Dtretus]

Q449

Does a Mage hand activate the effect of tome expertise?

I was under the impression that cantrips had no combat utility.

[Kurald Galain]

A449 Yes, and note that (unlike other expertise feats) Tome Expertise doesn't require you to use or even own a tome. The feat is kind of badly written, but by RAW that does work.

I was under the impression that cantrips had no combat utility.

Most of them totally do, even without this particular trick.

[Inevitability]

Cantrips can be quite nice. I can easily name some examples, but that probably deserves its own thread.

[AttilaTheGeek]

Q 450

Paladin's Judgement, a level 1 Paladin daily (PHB 1 p. 92) reads "Hit: 3[W] + Strength modifier damage, and one ally within 5 squares of you can spend a healing surge. Miss: One ally within 5 squares of you can spend a healing surge." Is that mechanically equivalent to "Hit: 3[W] + Strength modifier damage. Effect: One ally within 5 squares of you can spend a healing surge"? If not, how are they different?

[masteraleph]

A450: Unless you have something that affects a healing surge use granted through a hit (which I don't think exists), yes. Powers are frequently written this way, though.

[Inevitability]

A 450 I'd say they are the same. Maybe a couple things affect the 'effect' of powers, but I can't think of any.

[Kurald Galain]

A 450 I'd say they are the same. Maybe a couple things affect the 'effect' of powers, but I can't think of any.

I concur, I can't think of anything either. It is plausible that the power used to say something slightly different but was edited at the last minute.

[georgie_leech]

I concur, I can't think of anything either. It is plausible that the power used to say something slightly different but was edited at the last minute.

Alternatively, it could be to reinforce it as an attack that enables healing, rather than a healing ability that also has damage tacked on. Qualitatively it's the same, but the feel is a little different, especially considering that the Paladin was definitely the more smite-y of the two PHB Divine classes.

[GPuzzle]

Remember that only in the PHB2 WotC improved the wording with powers, because it streamlined how they worked, and made it so you could figure out what would happen more precisely.

[tcrudisi]

Q 450

Paladin's Judgement, a level 1 Paladin daily (PHB 1 p. 92) reads "Hit: 3[W] + Strength modifier damage, and one ally within 5 squares of you can spend a healing surge. Miss: One ally within 5 squares of you can spend a healing surge." Is that mechanically equivalent to "Hit: 3[W] + Strength modifier damage. Effect: One ally within 5 squares of you can spend a healing surge"? If not, how are they different?

I swear there's a power or something out there which deals with the "effects" of powers, but I can't remember what it is. Oh, actually, I think it only applies to effects you put on enemies.

Barring really rare cases like that, its effectively the same. It'll be rare, but there IS a difference in theory, just not in practice ... if that makes sense.

In other words: If you are worried about a specific interaction, bring it up because we might be forgetting about it. But 99.99% of the time, it is mechanically equivalent.

[Epinephrine]

I swear there's a power or something out there which deals with the "effects" of powers ...But 99.99% of the time, it is mechanically equivalent.

Agreed, tried to find some that might be borderline; There is a cleric feat (Assured healing) that can allow a healing effect if a divine attack power misses and has "no effect on a miss." Not sure if that means "nothing on the Miss line" or "on a miss, the power has no effect," but depending on the interpretation of the feat it might matter which way the power was written.

[Tegu8788]

Q 451

When a minion crits, does anything special happen? Assume there is no special line about grabbing on a crit or anything. I find myself critting often with minions, and want to make sure I got it right.

[Kurald Galain]

A 451 Nope.

Numerous minions do extra damage on a crit, but if so, their statblock will spell it out.

[MrUberGr]

Q 452

Sehanine's Reversal [Divinity]
Effect: Choose an enemy within range; that creature gains
the condition you just saved against.

Does this work with death saving throws? Condition: dying. Couldn't find any errata that clarify this.

[Inevitability]

A 452: I don't think rolling a 20 on a DST is considered 'saving', so no.

[MrUberGr]

Hmm, indeed. It would be much fun tho, make a perfectly fine enemy dying just because.

[shamgar001]

A 452

The power only specifies that you need to roll a natural 20 on a saving throw. Since death saving throws are, well, saving throws, nd dying is a condition, it seems like it could work. It's not a situation that can be relied upon though.

If a player had come up with that by themselves and asked for it, I'd let them do it on the grounds that any player with the audacity to ask for that much cheese should get it at least once.

[MrUberGr]

452 huh... would you look at this.

20 or higher: Spend a healing surge. When you do so, you are considered to have 0 hit points, and then your healing surge restores hit points as normal. You are no longer dying, and you are conscious but still prone. If you roll 20 or higher but have no healing surges left expressed as a negative number, your condition doesn’t change.

So basically you DO actually SAVE on the condition dying. Which means, that this should work. Pretty sure it was not their intention, but no errata came out so... I doubt it ever actually occurred in a game.

[Kurald Galain]

A452 Yes, technically dying is a condition. This may not matter much for Sehanine's Reversal, but it does for affects like Orb of Unlucky Exchange or the Lord of Fate's Turnabout ability.

Of course, the DM should probably veto that. That said, death saving throws are saving throws and are affected by anything that works on saving throws, such as bonuses and rerolls.

[Inevitability]

So the main issue here is whether or not you can 'save' against a death saving throw. Well, I'd say you can't, as a normal saving throw ends a condition when you roll 10 or higher.

The 'dying' condition only disappears on a result of 20. It is debatable whether or not that counts as 'saving'.

[MrUberGr]

It is debatable whether or not that counts as 'saving'.

A debate we'd have to move elsewhere so we don't spam this thread.

Maybe a mod could move posts #1160-1166 to a new thread titled "Sehanine's Reversal on death saving throws"?

[MrUberGr]

Q453

Grappled and forced movement.

A has B grappled. B fails to Escape. He then proceeds to use a power that slides the target. What happens?

With what other ways can a grapple be broken? If someone were to push/pull/slide A away from B could that work?

[Kurald Galain]

A453 Grappled doesn't exist in 4E. Assuming you mean grabbed, then yes, any forced movement on either the grabbing character or the grabbed character will break the grab as soon as it moves the two creatures further apart than the reach of the grabbing character (which is generally one square).

[Echobeats]

Q454a If a pixie enters an enemy's square, does the last square of movement provoke an OA, since it's leaving a threatened square?

Q454b If a pixie falls into an enemy's square at the end of its turn (due to the altitude limit rule), does that provoke an OA?