Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread II: Electric Boogaloo

[masteraleph]

A 460 addendum Also, please note the Errata to Flame Spiral that limits the Effect damage to once per turn, as of the December 2011 errata.

[MrUberGr]

Q461 Do traps benefit from concealement? If the players walk into a pitch dark room do they get a -5 to spot the traps?

[tcrudisi]

Q461 Do traps benefit from concealement? If the players walk into a pitch dark room do they get a -5 to spot the traps?

Those are two separate questions.

Do traps benefit from concealment? Yes. If you have difficulty seeing the trap, you will have difficulty hitting it.

If the players walk into a pitch dark room, do they get a -5 to spot the traps? There are 2 answers to this question: the RAW and the practical.
RAW: When the thing you are trying to perceive is "Well obscured", use the Hard DC for the Perception check. (p. 151 of the Rules Compendium for the rule; p. 126 for the chart with the DCs on it.)
Practical: Players /will/ use sun rods. Simply saying, "Its dark; you spring a trap" is only going to cause an uproar. As soon as you say its dark, they are almost assuredly going to pull out a sun rod.

[MrUberGr]

As they did as soon as they entered the dungeon. This is what I figured. Each trap has a DC and I'd just make it a bit harder. Not that I had to.

[MrUberGr]

Q462

When making a weapon attack with a frost weapon, and you're using a power that does typed damaged, do you deal cold damage, or the type the power says?

Does the same go for implement attacks?

[Dimers]

A 462

Whether you're using an implement power or a weapon power, the damage type and damage keyword would be Cold ... and only Cold, not anything native to the power.

The change wouldn't apply to one of those racial or paragon-path powers that uses neither implement nor weapon.

[masteraleph]

A462

1) Cold damage exclusively, assuming it's set to deal cold damage, because of the language on Frost Weapon ("all damage"). This is true even if something else adds an additional kind of damage- the level 16 feature of Malec-Keth Janissary, for example, would be 1d4 Cold rather than whatever it was supposed to be. A number of the damage conversion weapons are phrased that way. There are others (Crusader's Mace, for example) that have different wording, and based on that it works differently. Note that a Frost Weapon will replace whatever elemental keywords were on it with Cold.

2) Yes, presuming you have a way of using some sort of Frost Weapon as an implement. Note also that a Siberys Shard of Merciless Cold can be attached to it and work fine on Implement attacks- you're still using the weapon to make the attack. As long as the phrasing is something like "with this weapon" or "using this weapon," it works just fine. The only time it would not work is if something specifically uses the phrase "weapon attack," since that requires the weapon keyword.

[GPuzzle]

Q462

When making a weapon attack with a frost weapon, and you're using a power that does typed damaged, do you deal cold damage, or the type the power says?

Does the same go for implement attacks?

Cold damage, and yes.

[MrUberGr]

Thanks to everyone for the answers

[matrix_machine]

Q 463

As a Battlemind, if I have an enemy marked and they turn invisible and move, do I get to activate Blurred Step even though I don't see the movement? Same general question for Mind Spike, if an invisible enemy I have marked deals damage to a player, does it trigger Mind Spike?

[masteraleph]

A463

Yes to both. You always know where something is unless it's Hidden; even an invisible enemy makes sound, smells bad, etc. And even if it's Hidden, none of that matters for the powers you mentioned.

[Yakk]

Opportunity Actions require seeing the target to trigger, and do not trigger based off forced movement, shifting or teleporting.

Immediate Actions and Free Actions have no such restriction.

Hidden is a different condition than Invisible. Invisible makes it really easy to become Hidden -- move as part of an action, or take any move action, then at the end of the action make a Stealth check against every enemies passive perception. Each one you beat you become Hidden from.

Hidden means that they do not know where you are. Invisible does not -- you know where Invisible foes are.

To Hide, you must have full cover or concealment. Invisible grants full concealment. To stay Hidden you must maintain partial cover or concealment. If you attack, you lose also Hidden. The loss of Hidden always takes affect at the end of the action in which it occurred.

Now, full concealment grants some goodies -- no OAs from moving, CA against foes, ranged/melee attacks take a -5 penalty to hit. (Burst/Blast/Area powers do not). There are a few other benefits, but those are the big ones.

Now, for a Trigger to go off, arguably you have to be aware that the situation occurred. However, unless Hidden, you are aware that an Invisible creature walks to you or leaves.

It is important to realize the "end of the action" rule of Hidden applies to both gaining it an losing it. So simply going invisible, then moving & making a hide check, only works to some extent -- they know the square you ended your move at!

Hidden is a pretty awesome state to be in, so it is hard to reach and easy to fall out of. Invisible is easier to be in and stay in that Hidden, and if you grant full Hidden automatically to everyone Invisible, you massively upgrade the power of Invisible beyond that which the designers intended.

[matrix_machine]

Opportunity Actions require seeing the target to trigger, and do not trigger based off forced movement, shifting or teleporting.

Immediate Actions and Free Actions have no such restriction.

Hidden is a different condition than Invisible. Invisible makes it really easy to become Hidden -- move as part of an action, or take any move action, then at the end of the action make a Stealth check against every enemies passive perception. Each one you beat you become Hidden from.

Hidden means that they do not know where you are. Invisible does not -- you know where Invisible foes are.

To Hide, you must have full cover or concealment. Invisible grants full concealment. To stay Hidden you must maintain partial cover or concealment. If you attack, you lose also Hidden. The loss of Hidden always takes affect at the end of the action in which it occurred.

Now, full concealment grants some goodies -- no OAs from moving, CA against foes, ranged/melee attacks take a -5 penalty to hit. (Burst/Blast/Area powers do not). There are a few other benefits, but those are the big ones.

Now, for a Trigger to go off, arguably you have to be aware that the situation occurred. However, unless Hidden, you are aware that an Invisible creature walks to you or leaves.

It is important to realize the "end of the action" rule of Hidden applies to both gaining it an losing it. So simply going invisible, then moving & making a hide check, only works to some extent -- they know the square you ended your move at!

Hidden is a pretty awesome state to be in, so it is hard to reach and easy to fall out of. Invisible is easier to be in and stay in that Hidden, and if you grant full Hidden automatically to everyone Invisible, you massively upgrade the power of Invisible beyond that which the designers intended.

In the context of the game we were playing where this question arose, a monster became "invisible", but totally concealed from us (hidden, I guess, none of the party had any idea where the creature went; it was some sort of insubstantial ghost creature). We were informed that the monster had moved somewhere, but nobody in the party could tell where, we were only given the monster's range and told to take a guess.

In our case, nobody knew where the creature was, so Blurred Step would not have triggered when the creature moved (is my interpretation of your response correct)? It did not attack until it revealed itself, but the situation made me curious about "hidden" attacks in the future.

[Yakk]

What you experienced is pretty standard "DM upgrades invisible to invisible+hidden". You can either ask them to read "the rules of hidden club", or you could simply make a character (like a defender) who exploits invisibility.

[GPuzzle]

What you experienced is pretty standard "DM upgrades invisible to invisible+hidden". You can either ask them to read "the rules of hidden club", or you could simply make a character (like a defender) who exploits invisibility.

Battlemind with Evermeet Warlock is so annoying... Especially if you've got a high Stealth and a Staff of the Traveler.

Psionic Speed becomes NASTY if you can slap a slide into it.

[matrix_machine]

What you experienced is pretty standard "DM upgrades invisible to invisible+hidden". You can either ask them to read "the rules of hidden club", or you could simply make a character (like a defender) who exploits invisibility.

Gotcha (I think), the DM was correct to not allow my Blurred Step to trigger. I'm a bit new to 4e, so I had no idea there was a level beyond Invisible either...thanks for your input!

[Inevitability]

Battlemind with Evermeet Warlock is so annoying... Especially if you've got a high Stealth and a Staff of the Traveler.

Psionic Speed becomes NASTY if you can slap a slide into it.

And three days later, GPuzzle posts his new build based on these two sentences.

[GPuzzle]

And three days later, GPuzzle posts his new build based on these two sentences.

I ALREADY DID! *maniacally cackles*

Not here, on the WotC CharOP forums, but, still.

[MrUberGr]

Q464

Can you used forced movement to throw someone off something? For example, if a monster has slide 5, can it slide a player off the deck of the ship?

[Tegu8788]

A 464

Yes, but they get a saving throw if forced movement puts them in difficult terrain or would make them fall. Succeed and they are prone at the square before the issue, fail and they go in/over.

[MrUberGr]

Since the ship has a rail on the edge would that be considered as hard terrain or should I give them a bonus to saving throws for falling over?

[Dimers]

Since the ship has a rail on the edge would that be considered as hard terrain or should I give them a bonus to saving throws for falling over?

No RAW answer to that. Make it whichever you feel is better for the game. I'd say the bonus-to-saves is more interesting, but only you know what you and your players want from the game.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

A 464

Yes, but they get a saving throw if forced movement puts them in difficult terrain .

I believe the saving throw only occurs if it is harmful terrain (e.g. lava), not just difficult. Indeed, forced movment ignores difficult terrain - you can push someone deep into bushes.

Grey Wolf

[MrUberGr]

Well the sea can be REALLY harmfull when you're in plate and carrying a heavy shield. One has 0 athletics, and the other maybe a 3.

PS. Maybe you could head over to my DM thread, and help me out a bit. Not sure how to run an encounter between four people on a boat and a kraken. Hope I'm not imposing

[tcrudisi]

I believe the saving throw only occurs if it is harmful terrain (e.g. lava), not just difficult. Indeed, forced movment ignores difficult terrain - you can push someone deep into bushes.

Grey Wolf

This. You don't gave a saving throw for being forced into /difficult/ terrain. You only get one if you are being dumped into /harmful/ terrain.

Also, you get one to avoid being pushed off cliffs and boats and the like.

Its not RAW, but I've seen modules where the players are fighting on a boat. When there's a railing, they've always given out a +5 to the saving throw to avoid being forced overboard.

[Teapot Salty]

Q#465 How many uses of utility powers do you get per day/encounter?

[GPuzzle]

Q#465 How many uses of utility powers do you get per day/encounter?

Depends. Every utility is different. Some are At-Will, so you can use them every turn/round. Some are Encounter, so you can only use them once per Encounter. Some are Daily and you can only use them once per day. For example, the Fighter's Pass Forward Utility is a Level 2 At-Will Utility, the Rogue's Tumble is a Level 2 Encounter Utility, and the Ranger's Begin the Hunt is a Level 2 Daily Utility.

[Kurald Galain]

Q#465 How many uses of utility powers do you get per day/encounter?

(addendum, since this seems to confuse some people) If you have, for example, three per-encounter utility powers, then you can use each of them in every encounter. If you have four daily utility powers, then you can use all of those in every day (not just one of them).

[Teapot Salty]

Q#466 I notice in the players handbook that some weapons (for example axes) "benefit from a high constitution score" is that just a recommendation, or do they gain an actual bonus?

[GPuzzle]

Feats from Axes require Constitution. The Mastery feats gives it a good example of their necessity of Constitution/Dexteritry, but Polearms (which mix two weapons) use Wisdom.

List of Weapon Groups and Stats:

Axe, Picks, Maces, Hammers, Staffs: Constitution

Heavy Blades, Light Blades, Flails, Spears: Dexteritry

Polearms: Wisdom