OOTS #852 - The Discussion Thread

[Gift Jeraff]

If that was the end of Thog, I'd say it was a pretty satisfying end. The main thing I think going for "Thog is still alive" is the fact that both he and a dog were left in a vague fate in the exact location--seems like a perfect setup for something to happen...

EDIT: As for the Linear Guild as a whole, I get the feeling Tarquin's last stand will be halfway through the next book, and Nale will either be the climactic battle of the penultimate book or the "mid-boss" of Kraagor's Tomb (as he was in the Dungeon of Dorukan).

[Winter]

I think the Last Stand of Tarquin as well as the LG will happen very soon. It'll all start as soon as Team Evil pops into the scene - which can be any second from now or a day in the future once this situation has been resolved; it's not going to take very long in all cases, their latest point to add themselves will be when the gate is found (no matter the state the Order-Tarquin-LG-situation will be in by then).

[Gift Jeraff]

There's yet to be any major consequence of the Linear Guild being the IFCC's pawns or Sabine having to choose between them and Nale. IMO, it'd be very unsatisfying to end them now without resolving that subplot. Plus we have the author's word that "it's safe to say [the IFCC] will be here for the long run." Not sure how they can influence things without their pawns, even if V's debt does allow for possession.

I mean, I guess new pawns could be introduced, but why?

[Math_Mage]

It's definitely far too soon for TARQUIN'S last stand. He's had too much buildup to go down to Team Evil in the next thirty strips.

And I have a feeling that Nale and Tarquin will be resolved at approximately the same time.

[Mike Havran]

I think Tarquin's fate depends on whether the autor wants to continue with adventures of OotS after their Gate-quest is over or not.

Let's assume Xykon is destroyed at Kraagor's Gate and the world is saved (I think this is quite possible outcome). Then should the adventures continue, Tarquin is an ideal antagonist to replace Xykon. His group and the empires they control are far too tough to handle in this arc, and too disturbing to be left behind. Therefore I assume Tarquin will not only survive this arc, but he will outlast Xykon as well.

Of course, if the comics ends for good after the big thing is over, then Tarquin could die in this arc. But unless Snarl unmades him, there will always be doubt about his fate. Even if Malack dies as well, there are these four high-level, competent, experienced and loyal teammates of his around, with the wealth of 2-3 powerful empires at their disposal. Tarquin is certainly savvy enough to have a scenario, in which one part of the team gets killed, fully covered.

So, I think Elan's father will be around for a long, long time. And Nale probably as well.

[ti'esar]

I'm pretty sure by "impending death" he means "the next five weeks, in-comic time."

Yes, yes, that could be years from now, but his point stands.

But if he wasn't implying that Belkar's death was going to occur at the climax of this arc, then what would it have to do with the theory that Thog was written out (for however long) so as not to impact the seriousness of the climax?

Anyway, when I say that I expect this is the end of the Linear Guild, I mean the Linear Guild as a recurring bunch of Evil Counterparts to the Order. I think it's quite possible that Nale and Sabine will manage to slip away again, but I don't think we'll be seeing a fifth incarnation of their team after the fight is over.

I'm absolutely sure, though, that the comic will not continue beyond the end of the Gates plot.

[Smolder]

I think the Last Stand of Tarquin as well as the LG will happen very soon. It'll all start as soon as Team Evil pops into the scene - which can be any second from now or a day in the future once this situation has been resolved; it's not going to take very long in all cases, their latest point to add themselves will be when the gate is found (no matter the state the Order-Tarquin-LG-situation will be in by then).

Z may use up most of his useful spells on the Order before Team Evil appears, at which point V will emerge with all of hir spells still memorized. It could turn out to be very advantageous that V involuntarily sat out round 1.

Do you expect Xykon will recognize V as the elf that attacked him? He seemed pretty upset that his kill was stolen.

I also wonder how Malack vs. Redcloak would go. Like other cleric battles we've seen, it would probably come down to saves, since they're probably not far apart in levels.

[Emperordaniel]

Do you expect Xykon will recognize V as the elf that attacked him? He seemed pretty upset that his kill was stolen.

My current theory as to what will happen then is this: someone once pointed out in another thread here that the next time Xykon and his minions meet up with the Order of the Stick, Roy will charge at Xykon with his sword, and the following exchange will be something like this:

"I'm back from the dead, and I will finish you this time, Xykon!"
"Who are you?"
"Not this again..."
"Wait. Who's that behind you?" *pushes Roy aside, sees Vaarsuvius*
...
"...YOU!!!"
**

TL:DR Xykon doesn't recognise Roy as usual, but easily recognises and gets very angry at the elf.

[Burner28]

The irony of that would surely be amusing.

[The Second]

I also wonder how Malack vs. Redcloak would go. Like other cleric battles we've seen, it would probably come down to saves, since they're probably not far apart in levels.

I'm not so sure about Malack being near Redcloak's level. If he were, I would have expected him to use something like Implosion or Destruction against Nale when they met on the rooftop, rather than Harm. Of course, using Harm/Quickened Inflict Moderate could have come down to a matter of personal taste; still, If I were wanting someone dead, and wanted them to *stay* dead, then I'd go with Destruction if I had it available to me.

[HalfTangible]

I'm not so sure about Malack being near Redcloak's level. If he were, I would have expected him to use something like Implosion or Destruction against Nale when they met on the rooftop, rather than Harm. Of course, using Harm/Quickened Inflict Moderate could have come down to a matter of personal taste; still, If I were wanting someone dead, and wanted them to *stay* dead, then I'd go with Destruction if I had it available to me.

Something about the way Malack handled Elan tells me he doesn't want Nale dead. Until he begs for it.

[ti'esar]

I'm inclined to think that Malack isn't capable of ninth-level spells.

The irony of that would surely be amusing.

I don't see that as particularly ironic - Xykon really doesn't have that much reason to remember Roy, from his perspective, but he's got a lot more incentive to remember the elf who very nearly destroyed his phylactery.

[oppyu]

I'm inclined to think that Malack isn't capable of ninth-level spells.



I don't see that as particularly ironic - Xykon really doesn't have that much reason to remember Roy, from his perspective, but he's got a lot more incentive to remember the elf who very nearly destroyed his phylactery.

Roy wants Xykon to remember him, but his whole life he shunned his father and became a responsible fighter. However, if he instead was like his father and became an egotistical wizard (like V), then Xykon would remember him. Irony.

[Dracos]

It's gonna kinda suck if/when belkar finally bites it as predicted ages ago by that seer.

Since his spiritual journey/curse thing, he's been easily one of the most fun and competent members of the order in every scene he's had any significant role in.

[Warren Dew]

REALLY?

Thanks, missed that one. That's pretty clever of Roy.

[FafnerMorell]

My current theory as to what will happen then is this: someone once pointed out in another thread here that the next time Xykon and his minions meet up with the Order of the Stick, Roy will charge at Xykon with his sword, and the following exchange will be something like this:

"I'm back from the dead, and I will finish you this time, Xykon!"
"Who are you?"
"Not this again..."
"Wait. Who's that behind you?" *pushes Roy aside, sees Vaarsuvius*
...
"...YOU!!!"
**

TL:DR Xykon doesn't recognise Roy as usual, but easily recognises and gets very angry at the elf.

Another funny variation on this would be if Xykon ignored both of them and fixated on Blackwing. "It's that DAMN bird - do you know how hard it was to located my phylactery?!"

[Laroque]

I think it would make perfect sense for Xykon to show up at the last possible second. Based on Tarquin's comment about the protagonists having to overcome all the challenges and the villains seizing it at the last minute.

Nale and Tarquin (but mostly Nale IMO) jumped the gun because they're B villains. Xykon showing up after they've found the Gate would really bring the point home that he's the main villain in this story.

[Kish]

I'm inclined to think that Malack isn't capable of ninth-level spells.

Malack has, in fact, yet to demonstrate that he's capable of seventh-level spells.

[ti'esar]

Nale and Tarquin (but mostly Nale IMO) jumped the gun because they're B villains. Xykon showing up after they've found the Gate would really bring the point home that he's the main villain in this story.

I've had this idea myself, and I really like it (although I don't think it is mostly Nale; if anything, he seems to have a better idea of his role as a secondary antagonist then Tarquin does).

Malack has, in fact, yet to demonstrate that he's capable of seventh-level spells.

I get the feeling we haven't necessarily seen his full capabilities yet, given his apathy/annoyance towards this fight and the briefness of his earlier confrontations with Nale and not-nale. But you're right, he hasn't cast anything over sixth-level.

[Laroque]

I've had this idea myself, and I really like it (although I don't think it is mostly Nale; if anything, he seems to have a better idea of his role as a secondary antagonist then Tarquin does).

In that sense, I agree with you.
It was poor wording on my part. I meant that I think it's more Nale's fault that they jumped the gun. Tarquin seems to be a better planner, and Nale definitely has a lot to prove.

[Kalrany]

On topic but off tangent....
I was just re-reading some of the earlier strips and I got a kick out of this:
The heading to the current strip is Under the Helmet, which is in relation to the hood Tarquin is wearing under his helmet. Funny enough, in Just Like on Three's Company, Haley wants to know what Elan's 18 Charisma is worth "under the hood"...
Ammusing, if likely unintentional, father/son symmetry. Made me laugh anyway. I wonder who is going to figure out what's under Tarquin's hood...

[t209]

On topic but off tangent....
I was just re-reading some of the earlier strips and I got a kick out of this:
The heading to the current strip is Under the Helmet, which is in relation to the hood Tarquin is wearing under his helmet. Funny enough, in Just Like on Three's Company, Haley wants to know what Elan's 18 Charisma is worth "under the hood"...
Ammusing, if likely unintentional, father/son symmetry. Made me laugh anyway. I wonder who is going to figure out what's under Tarquin's hood...

Does it have to do with "invisibility" or "trouser titan"? I remember that Charisma can also count for endowment and beauty (plus tongue).

[Kalrany]

Not Titan but invisibility... This was back at comic 28.
I just found the similarity of phrasing humorous, especially in light of the fact that it was about father and son. That is all. Just thought others might get a chuckle too.

[rgrekejin]

Does it have to do with "invisibility" or "trouser titan"? I remember that Charisma can also count for endowment and beauty (plus tongue).

Only if you're playing with extra rules from creepy third-party sourcebooks.

It's true that attractiveness can factor in to one's charisma score, but charisma is more about force of personality, leadership ability, or personal magnetism that it is about physical attractiveness. Someone with the personality of damp cardboard has low charisma, no matter how gorgeous they are. Conversely, someone can be hideously disfigured and still highly charismatic if they have a strong enough personality.

[jonathan_sicari]

I am new to the Order (although I have, of course, had reference to them made in my presence frequently over the last few years). I have read all the online comic now and generally enjoyed it.

Going back to a abandoned arguement for a moment.

Spoiler

Show

I kind of agree with the people upthread who feel that the Order's victories feel like author fiat. After reading the Giant's explanation of how Roy won in the arena against Thog, it actually took away from my enjoyment of the victory because Roy's player clearly played the DM, utilizing an inappropriate skill (intimidate) instead of the relevant skill (bluff).

That's not a deal breaker for me though. I definitely intend to keep reading (although outside of Belkar I don't really care for any of the Order, but their enemies are awesome, especially Tarquin, Malak and Redcloak).

First post.

[ti'esar]

I kind of agree with the people upthread who feel that the Order's victories feel like author fiat. After reading the Giant's explanation of how Roy won in the arena against Thog, it actually took away from my enjoyment of the victory because Roy's player clearly played the DM, utilizing an inappropriate skill (intimidate) instead of the relevant skill (bluff).

Please tell me this is meant facetiously.

[jonathan_sicari]

Its meant facetiously.

*rolls bluff, gets a 2, *

[rgrekejin]

Its meant facetiously.

*rolls bluff, gets a 2, *

I love it. Welcome to the boards, Jonathan.

[Kish]

Roy has no player.

[zimmerwald1915]

Roy has no player.

There's also no GM.