[FWM] OOC 3: Eccentric Cheerilee

[PurityIcekiller]

Yeah, I've been trying to have my characters suffer setbacks myself because invincibility is boring and having bad things happen opens up many more options. It's quite fun to have Blades maintain her intimidation factor despite being unable to lift her legs.

Still, complete defeat hurts. If you don't even manage to have an impact before everything gets crushed, it's a major letdown. Take the case of Night Jewel and the metal; she had a completely legitimate success in disabling its defences, but that success was overridden, forcing me to use the bypass spell (which I regret, since it felt contrived) just to have a semblance of progress.

Thus, the best solution is to compromise. There must be victories, even if they're small and come with a price. You may get forced to retreat, but destroy the bad guy's weapon first, or you may slay your enemy, but be left with a broken leg. Whatever the case, there has to be give as much as take.

Anyway, that's my two bits. Now, in other news, what would be the best way for Night Jewel sneaking into the Cirrus to go?

[Grif]

Anyway, that's my two bits. Now, in other news, what would be the best way for Night Jewel sneaking into the Cirrus to go?

The Cirrus has three entrances: the cargo bay hangar, the main lower entrance and the observation deck. (I think we never actually settled on a ship design. Perhaps this is a good time to do so.) Plus at least a few maintenance hatches for easy access to certain components. By default the cargo bay entrance is usually closed, the lower main entrance is monitored by both cameras and passive surveillance devices and the observation deck is covered similarly.

By default, the (overzealous) security system is usually turned off when the crew is up and about, though there is usually somepony watching the entrances in the bridge.

[Benson]

-snippy-
Thus, the best solution is to compromise. There must be victories, even if they're small and come with a price. You may get forced to retreat, but destroy the bad guy's weapon first, or you may slay your enemy, but be left with a broken leg. Whatever the case, there has to be give as much as take.

But you know, what good is a broken leg as a set back in a world where insto-fix limb healing is available?
===


I'll add in my comments about the Cirrus ship design....for now...sleep time.

[TheAmishPirate]

*sigh* You know, as the DM, seeing an over-active OOC thread is either a massive blessing of spontaneous creativity, or it means an argument's broken out. It's never just because folks are bored and want to chat, you know that?

Thankfully ya'll seem to have a handle on the situation as is, meaning there's very little left for me to do here. I will comment on pertinent points:

I’m looking for ways to change the formula, but what I’ve come up with is going to take both of us, and I think it addresses the main issue: We need to stop trying to win. Our problems so far look a lot like they’re coming down (and I’ll admit this for myself, personally) to ‘I refuse to lose, and I’ll use everything I can think of to prevent it’. If we can work together to get out of the mindset of always winning, I believe we can make a more enjoyable experience for everyone.

Will it be tons of fun for us all the time? Probably not. Let’s face it: Losing sucks. But every fight has a victor, and most often the fight decides, not the fighters. And that's the way the cookie crumbles.

^It's about dang time somepony pointed this out.

Ever since the fight prior to the alley fight, there's been a steady, but understandable power creep. Luka gets his guys curbstomped by admittedly overpowered PCs, he feels they need to be more powerful, the players notice this and send in more powerful PCs, and you can all see where this is heading. The way to stop this cycle? Exactly what Kelvin said; stop playing to win. Somebody told me once that a fight has no winners, there are only those who've lost less. The same with this RP. Fights should rarely be utter and complete curbstomps. Each side should take hits, each side should take losses of some kind, regardless of who ultimately "wins".

Of course, another problem is the fact that the last fight was such a curbstomp in the first place. Rest assured, I have talked/am talking this over with folks who've had powerful PCs, no worries there.

Thus, the best solution is to compromise. There must be victories, even if they're small and come with a price. You may get forced to retreat, but destroy the bad guy's weapon first, or you may slay your enemy, but be left with a broken leg. Whatever the case, there has to be give as much as take.

Exactly my above point, posted much earlier than me. But you know what? It bears repeating.

I will speak on this point alone. Losing can be fun. The only difference is how you approach it. Stop treating this RP like some D&D game where your objective is to obtain XP, gold, lootz, winning fights, whatever. Instead, try to treat this like a story being crafted by multiple participants. Losing or winning is immaterial, because the story is being crafted, either way.

My characters hardly ever win. (See: Silverpine, Team Guard, Shell Shock. If you read the archives, Icy didn't have everything go her way either.) But to me, that's fine, because it advances the story in some way or lets them have character development. The Seal Team Six who showed up to the fight, only to get brutalised badly? They're there for a purpose: to show how common guards are outmatched and also to show they were determined to protect their town despite the odds. (Not to mention I just like playing badass normals.)

I admit though. I am beginning to think I swung too far to accommodate some of you. (Looking at you, Luka.) The line has to be drawn somewhere, and playing this RP with the goal of having fun and enjoying the roleplay instead of winning would be a good start.

There is not one sentiment in this post that I disagree with.

However, I would imagine that Fox Trot would disagree with the sentiment about Icy. *eyebrow waggle*

RE: The hostage: I admit, every sign so far has said that the hostage is dead, but the fact that Luka is acting as though the hostage is alive tells me this is an error in communication.

Luka? Just to confirm OOC, but is the hostage still alive?

[Orzel]

Hey, all my PCs are losers.


Grills has only ended 2 fights when he wasn't put in a coma or driven insane. Plus look at all the mares who turned him down.
Rainbow is a sniper so she lives to be nerfed.
Hover quits before the conflict starts.
Juribean is a PC hunter, doomed to fail.

I think I have to get to the Hooves wedding just to have one of my guys win soundly for once.

[Luka]

So, sure! No, he's not dead! Nah, that stab wound is just a scratch, he'll be fiiiiine.

Truly Flameshield is a supersoldier and/or is a heresy to the universal norms and customs.

...What demands? They jumped the griffon in an alley because he investigated a scuffle. Also, they DID just shoot the hostage. Thunderbolt is by no means the only one there, which also means as a side bonus (for her) that no, the blame is not all on her shoulders. Unless you mean that she should have fought every single opponent at once so Griffie could do his thing?

That's not the point, it's that she attacked Verdant right after the hostage situation openly started and demands were given already, and the griffon knew it was a hostage too, not just a scuffle

Random Alley

There's still a purpose to why he came down the alley. "They have somepony, do not let them escape," he calls upwards. Of course, if the cables are metallic, he's not going to be able to do much else as the shocks happen.

See? he kinda knew it

Nnnnno. No it does not. It doesn’t even work that way with NORMAL blades, much less magical weaponry.

And now we’re back to the oh-so-fun ‘no YOU’RE OP’ part of the discussion.

With normal blades it doesn't when used normaly because of density and stuff....That doesn't mean "much less with magical weaponry", you may mean "more so", depending on each magic's own strength, you also mentioned the weapon's invulnerability just when she was trying to open Verdant's helmet

I never said my character was ineffectual. In fact, let’s be perfectly honest for a moment, here. If the only thing that changed was Thunderbolt’s involvement, the guards would be dead, the griffon would be captured (or also dead) and the Darke’s would be off scot-free. For the love of Celestia, man, ONE pony managed to incapacitate TWO guards like it was nothing, and that was before Amish’s plucky CSI trio showed up.

The problem is in the dynamic, which I’ll get to after I quote the rest of that sentence.



Everyone else on my side, you mean? Yes. Definitely. Badass normals? Probably. But then I take a look at the antagonists…

An Earth Pony with a sword that can cut through anything, apparently

A mage who can summon multiple massive solidified darkness tentacles

A Pegasus who can ? Not too sure about that one…

Two unicorns, one with a magic spear, both most likely with exceptional training…

And every last one of them has armor that:

*Absorbs magic
*Shocks anyone who tries to mess with it
*Is completely invulnerable to anything and everything except for lightning, which like any good metal it conducts fine

So please excuse me while I enter sarcasm mode, here…

Clearly, this is a very fair fight.

Ok overall this entire point deserves to be explained AGAIN

They're so strong and overpowered because they're supposed to be since they're their army's best, they're supposed to be threats, not random soldiers sent on a black-ops mission, you're not fighting the same black armored stupid dudes that were fighting before, you're pretty much fighting their army's own version of Master Chief, a high-level Dragonborn, Commander Shepard and two other superpowered mooks, remember when I said they could beat 40 regular troopers together? I wasn't joking and that was part of their original concept. Having a fair fight at the gate with them would mean that either they're too weak or your character's way too strong for that kind of fight since it was supposed to be an introduction (and why I made Violet), it was a complete failure and they got utterly curbstomped, been trying to fix that with the alley fight, but the failure seemed to carry over and want to worsen itself.

To be honest, the initial concept was for then to take down all the NPC guards and following reinforcements after the griffon called, however it seems they're incapable of doing what 2 stupid privates could do with less advanced equipment. Though I discussed it with Amish over PMs and now I'm trying to fix it with the hostage situation.

It absorbs magic since it's a basic thing the metal does to negate Linear Warriors Quadratic Wizards, the shocking recharges like an energy shield because otherwise Night Jewel will be able to win against the entire army all by herself, and it's not completely invulnerable, it's been already proven that blunt weapons are capable of smashing it around, there's also the joints, which were attacked to death in the gate fight, plus just plain overwhelming the user with a lot of attacks, which was seen at the star of the gate battle and didn't require that many attacks.

The hostage: I admit, every sign so far has said that the hostage is dead, but the fact that Luka is acting as though the hostage is alive tells me this is an error in communication.

Luka? Just to confirm OOC, but is the hostage still alive?

Yes....Just with a worse case than Flameshield

[TheAmishPirate]

With normal blades it doesn't when used normaly because of density and stuff....That doesn't mean "much less with magical weaponry", you may mean "more so", depending on each magic's own strength, you also mentioned the weapon's invulnerability just when she was trying to open Verdant's helmet

I didn't comment on this the first time it happened, since there was no complaint. But now that Kelvin is taking issue with it, I'm throwing my own two cents on the matter.

In my opinion, this isn't a question of magic vs. stronger magic, it's the plain and simple fact that metal doesn't work like that. Even chopping one sword with another won't slice through the second sword. It might bend the sword to the point of breaking, but sword slicing sword just doesn't happen. Swords can break other swords, but that's different.

If folks would like to comment on this, by all means, I'm all ears.

Ok overall this entire point deserves to be explained AGAIN

Mind you, a lot of this is stuff you explained to me, not to the general thread. So don't get too heated when folks might not know what you're talking about.

To be honest, the initial concept was for then to take down all the NPC guards and following reinforcements after the griffon called, however it seems they're incapable of doing what 2 stupid privates could do with less advanced equipment. Though I discussed it with Amish over PMs and now I'm trying to fix it with the hostage situation... Though I find it somewhat boring.

I would like to point out that this is the initial concept. I have already discussed with Luka in great detail as to why this concept was flawed, and why dropping the enemy's best in the center of town was a bad idea from the start. The hostage situation is so this error can be fixed, and then not repeated. I've also thoroughly discussed why being able to take on 40+ guards is ludicrously overpowered, so that should not require further comment.

Again, see my above comment regarding power creep, and the events that set this all off.

It absorbs magic since it's a basic thing the metal does to negate Linear Warriors Quadratic Wizards, the shocking recharges like an energy shield because otherwise Night Jewel will be able to win against the entire army all by herself, and it's not completely invulnerable, it's been already proven that blunt weapons are capable of smashing it around, there's also the joints, which were attacked to death in the gate fight, plus just plain overwhelming the user with a lot of attacks, which was seen at the star of the gate battle and didn't require that many attacks.

No, she wouldn't. Night Jewel would be able to disable/negate the defenses of a single soldier if she could get close enough to their armor, work her little magic, then escape without getting pulverized. Even without the armor's magical effects, it's still full plate, it's still a trained soldier with a deadly weapon, they are far from useless.

That, and I think the complaint comes from the fact that, from our perspective, you keep adding features to the armor to allow your super-soliders to do whatever they need to do, or survive whatever tactic gets used against them. I'm trusting this is not actually the case, and this merely comes down to not describing physical features of said armor well enough.

What would help in that regard is a compiled list of the armor's physical features in this thread. Something we can reference to know what the enemy we're currently facing is wearing in terms of protection. After all, our characters all have working eyes, they'd be able to see this sort of thing.

[Luka]

No, she wouldn't. Night Jewel would be able to disable/negate the defenses of a single soldier if she could get close enough to their armor, work her little magic, then escape without getting pulverized. Even without the armor's magical effects, it's still full plate, it's still a trained soldier with a deadly weapon, they are far from useless.

That, and I think the complaint comes from the fact that, from our perspective, you keep adding features to the armor to allow your super-soliders to do whatever they need to do, or survive whatever tactic gets used against them. I'm trusting this is not actually the case, and this merely comes down to not describing physical features of said armor well enough.

What would help in that regard is a compiled list of the armor's physical features in this thread. Something we can reference to know what the enemy we're currently facing is wearing in terms of protection. After all, our characters all have working eyes, they'd be able to see this sort of thing.

Um.... Her talent's mechanisms, she could aim to unlock the leg locks and make the swords fall off, also jam their armor and mess up the plates and put them over each other so they're practically unprotected, inmobile and harmless, plus maybe a lot more stuff she could be able to do that would make them even easier to own and a complete joyride for the guard to pick on

I would try to make one later

[Grif]

Um.... Her talent's mechanisms, she could aim to unlock the leg locks and make the swords fall off, also jam their armor and mess up the plates and put them over each other so they're practically unprotected, inmobile and harmless, plus maybe a lot more stuff she could be able to do that would make them even easier to own and a complete joyride for the guard to pick on

I would try to make one later

That would help a lot. I think a lot of this stems from the fact that we know next to nothing about your armour/super-mooks capabilities that every time you pull a new ability to save them, it seems more like an ***pull than anything pre-determined.

Truly Flameshield is a supersoldier and/or is a heresy to the universal norms and customs.

I'm hoping this isn't a complaint against my handling of the situation. Because I was not told that my semi-PC guards was going to be skewered like nobody's business. That should really been discussed with me beforehand, because nobody likes their characters dying a sudden death. Yes, even the named NPC guards, because I prefer to treat them as actual characters instead of being faceless cannon fodder.

As far as I'm concerned, this is the best compromise I can come up with. He may still die, but only if the situation deteriorate until such that help cannot reach him in time.

@Amish
*cough* You better not blab to this about Fox.

In my opinion, this isn't a question of magic vs. stronger magic, it's the plain and simple fact that metal doesn't work like that. Even chopping one sword with another won't slice through the second sword. It might bend the sword to the point of breaking, but sword slicing sword just doesn't happen. Swords can break other swords, but that's different.

In this, it's more of a matter of how fast and loose you're willing to play with the rules of physics and the rule of cool. Slicing swords happen all the time in my outlandish anime and cartoons, but not in real-life.

In context of our current situation: augmented with magic, maybe, but again, should considered in the context of rule of cool as well as how plausible this is in the story's setting.

[Luka]

I'm hoping this isn't a complaint against my handling of the situation. Because I was not told that my semi-PC guards was going to be skewered like nobody's business. That should really been discussed with me beforehand, because nobody likes their characters dying a sudden death. Yes, even the named NPC guards, because I prefer to treat them as actual characters instead of being faceless cannon fodder.

As far as I'm concerned, this is the best compromise I can come up with. He may still die, but only if the situation deteriorate until such that help cannot reach him in time.

Nope, wasn't complaining about it, just using it as an example that just getting stabbed didn't exactly mean the hostage HAD to be dead.

[TheAmishPirate]

Um.... Her talent's mechanisms, she could aim to unlock the leg locks and make the swords fall off, also jam their armor and mess up the plates and put them over each other so they're practically unprotected, inmobile and harmless, plus maybe a lot more stuff she could be able to do that would make them even easier to own and a complete joyride for the guard to pick on

That would still require her to perform mass, complicated technical trickery on moving targets that are probably trying to kill her. It might work on small groups of unaware guards, but I'm pretty sure she wouldn't stand a chance against anything more than that.

Of course, this is also where I should stop speaking for another player and just let them speak for themselves.

I would try to make one later

Thank you.

Because I was not told that my semi-PC guards was going to be skewered like nobody's business. That should really been discussed with me beforehand, because nobody likes their characters dying a sudden death. Yes, even the named NPC guards, because I prefer to treat them as actual characters instead of being faceless cannon fodder.

^This.

In full honesty, I would've seriously considered proposing a retcon to West Winds' death, were it not for the fact that it actually will end up serving a purpose in the story. No sense in un-doing something that worked out alright in the end.

As far as I'm concerned, this is the best compromise I can come up with. He may still die, but only if the situation deteriorate until such that help cannot reach him in time.

I wouldn't worry about him. As you'll see in my next post (when I get around to it) the guard does think to bring field medics when there's a situation.

@Amish
*cough* You better not blab to this about Fox.

I'll have to defer you to my scapegoat representative, Sandy Shores:

"Wha-?! Uh, m-miss, just stay calm now. Y'see...Amish might've... maybe... sent some photographicandvideoevidencetoFoxTrot"

*flees*

[PurityIcekiller]

Amish's assessment of Night Jewel is correct. Her ability doesn't instantly lock up all mechanisms in range; it has limits in scope and speed. She could disable one or two armoured foes in direct combat before getting overwhelmed, at most.

Oh, and another thing I think I should say to Luka is challenges can be hard to overcome, but should never be impossible. Night Jewel and the metal is one example, as is the homing energy blast that Blades stood no chance of stopping it on her own.

[Benson]

I'll have to defer you to my scapegoat representative, Sandy Shores:

"Wha-?! Uh, m-miss, just stay calm now. Y'see...Amish might've... maybe... sent some photographicandvideoevidencetoFoxTrot"

*flees*

"Hauh....I just got a package in the mail......ooh hey, Beta tapes~"

[Grif]

I'll add in my comments about the Cirrus ship design....for now...sleep time.

Poking Benson again regarding this. Orzel too, since he was the one who pitched the idea. Also any other players with Cirrus members.

My main concern is what kind of ship the Cirrus is. Does it have a balloon like traditional airships, or more like an early helicopter? Once we finalise the general design, the rest should follow pretty easily.

"Hauh....I just got a package in the mail......ooh hey, Beta tapes~"

Put that down, Fox. I'm warning you.

I'll have to defer you to my scapegoat representative, Sandy Shores:

"Wha-?! Uh, m-miss, just stay calm now. Y'see...Amish might've... maybe... sent some photographicandvideoevidencetoFoxTrot"

*flees*

COME BACK HERE YOU MISERABLE UNICORN!

[TheAmishPirate]

Poking Benson again regarding this. Orzel too, since he was the one who pitched the idea. Also any other players with Cirrus members.

My main concern is what kind of ship the Cirrus is. Does it have a balloon like traditional airships, or more like an early helicopter? Once we finalise the general design, the rest should follow pretty easily.

I always thought of it a little like this:

Spoiler

Show

Some sort of air-based lift, with propellers and such to help steer and provide thrust. Not to mention those good old engines that Mister Shores loves so much. Generally solid base, with plenty of room for cannons and weapons and goodies.

COME BACK HERE YOU MISERABLE UNICORN!

"Miss! C-calm down now, I'm just th' messenger, I'm just th' messenger!"

*dodges inevitable hailstorm, continues to flee*

"Ack! Cap'n! Rainbow! Silverpine! Anypony?! Crazy mare on th' loose, HEEEEEEEEEELLLLP!"

[Kelvin360]

Since it looks like pretty much everything's been discussed/is in the process of such except what I'm about to bring up, I'll only bring this up:

The term 'hostage situation' only applies in a very specific set of circumstances.
*One party must want the individual back
*One party must have them and be willing to give them up if their demands are met
*There must actually be demands

Otherwise, it's a simple kidnapping. So far, I've only seen that first one achieved. The antagonists have shown no signs of either being willing to hand the victim over, nor have they made demands.

Another bit that gets me (and admittedly this is mostly my fault) is that I think there's some misjudging going on about who Thunderbolt actually is. Yes, she's very, VERY duty-bound, but her duty does not encompass 'helping random ponies', as she'd call it. To put it in its simplest form, her duty is thus:

If she spots someone in trouble that falls under her protectorate, she intervenes and makes sure they don't die. She could not possibly care less about collateral, or even anyone NOT who she's trying to protect, to a lesser extent. The chain goes like this: Thunderguard>Hippogriff>Griffon>Pegasus>Random Ponies

So, that being said, there could not possibly be a worse individual to turn to if you want a hostage situation (which, as I just explained, this isn't) handled properly. She simply doesn't care enough to follow the 'rules' as likely outlined by the local government.

K, I'z done ranting nao.

[Luka]

The 3 points have already appeared

-The Red Earthie's demanding for them to be let outside of the town without any pursuing guards in exchange for the hostage
-As of now, the griffon's already showing interest, just waiting on Amish's guards if they are too
-Same as the 1st one, PLUS that "do not attack the demandants" should be an obvious one

The whole problem is that Thunderbolt is already breaking the demands before the others even reacted, that's what I meant before when I said you were "pushing it", she may be Meh personified when it comes to the others, but even so it's kinda interfering with their interaction even before they reacted, it's kind of taking the decision for them and canceling the event.

@PIK it doesn't even need to be AOE, it's been already stated that she's good at subtlety, right? That's pretty much enough to completely jam and disarm a squad, take it into a battle and now you can multiply the amount of troopers disarmed to an army while they're fighting, results into a bunch of black-dressed practice dummies for the army to wreck around. The defense regeneration is actually to balance that, so instead of jamming and completely disabling the entire army she would be able to do that to smaller groups or individuals, and given that there seem to be some "smart-based" characters more so, otherwise they would be completely vulnerable for the rest of the battle and extremely easy to take down when they're supposed to be Elite mook-ranked

[TheAmishPirate]

The 3 points have already appeared

-The Red Earthie's demanding for them to be let outside of the town without any pursuing guards in exchange for the hostage
-As of now, the griffon's already showing interest, just waiting on Amish's guards if they are too
-Same as the 1st one, PLUS that "do not attack the demandants" should be an obvious one

The whole problem is that Thunderbolt is already breaking the demands before the others even reacted, that's what I meant before when I said you were "pushing it", she may be Meh personified when it comes to the others, but even so it's kinda interfering with their interaction even before they reacted, it's kind of taking the decision for them and canceling the event.

And I'm waiting to see the outcome of this too. From what you're saying, I'd think that Thunderbolt would at least consider the fact that this random griffon is taking the interest of these ponies to heart.

Mind you, this could be nullified if she's taking a multi-round action to pry off the helmet further, and the griffon tells her to step off next round.

[PurityIcekiller]

May I remind you that Night Jewel only got the defences down in the first place with a lot of careful work and a lot of assistance? That she had nowhere near enough power to overcome them on her own? You "balanced" something that didn't need balancing in the first place, since it would be nearly impossible for her to repeat that process in a combat situation.

And as for jamming the entire army, I said she needed time. There's no way she could pull it off in an actual battle; she'd need plenty of spare time and an invisibility cloak. She was already restricted to "smaller groups or individuals", and now you've made it so she's restricted to "absolutely no one".

This is called overcompensation, mate, and it's hardly fair.

[Luka]

It seems like you're confusing stuff. She did require so much assistance because she didn't know how to beat the defense, then used Flare as a tank to study it and then find out that the defense can be wrecked by making a "magic U-turn" for the backlash to follow and wreck it's own armor.

So why would it be so hard for her? she could just replicate it or even cast horseshoe-shaped magic on them to get the magic defense shield down which shouldn't be that hard.
She wouldn't have to reinvent the counter again, what she did with the metal was research of the counter, now she would just need to "produce" it on their armor's defensive shield, which I don't think should be that hard.

If it was non-regenerating, then it would go to "just shoot U-traces into everyone", everyone's anti-magic defense becomes wrecked, leaving them completely vulnerable to mages PLUS Night Jewel would be completely unstoppable to disable and disarm every single soldier in the attacker's army

[PurityIcekiller]

Actually, to disarm the defences, she had to first get Flare to set them off remotely, then trick them into zapping themselves while they were still active. To pull it off by herself, she'd have to focus on two spells at once (one to trigger the defences, the other to reroute the power) while struggling against backlash, which she has nowhere near the skill or concentration to do.

[Benson]

@Grif

Essentially the image Amish posted but with a zeppelin balloon sort of thing as well. The Cirrus has been described in the past to have a balloon with protected plates made of experimental (alien) metal, courtesy of Balboa Industries, its lightweight but also very strong against puncturing and damage. Also criss crossed with ropes, as I remember a scene mentioning those.
=============

"Put what down my love?" *cheeky smile* "...Oooh...photographs...."
---

"Sandy!....Come hide in my forelegs!"

[Luka]

Actually, to disarm the defences, she had to first get Flare to set them off remotely, then trick them into zapping themselves while they were still active. To pull it off by herself, she'd have to focus on two spells at once (one to trigger the defences, the other to reroute the power) while struggling against backlash, which she has nowhere near the skill or concentration to do.

All Flare had to do was cast a spell that directly affected the metal, all Night Jewel would need to do is cast the trace on the metal itself and reroute it, plus the backlash is channeled, is kinda what happened with the metal too: trace, then drop it onto the armor to trigger the backlash defense, other unicorns can do it too and the whole process would be pretty easy.

[Grif]

All Flare had to do was cast a spell that directly affected the metal, all Night Jewel would need to do is cast the trace on the metal itself and reroute it, plus the backlash is channeled, is kinda what happened with the metal too: trace, then drop it onto the armor to trigger the backlash defense, other unicorns can do it too and the whole process would be pretty easy.

I think you're severely underestimating the difficulty imposed by Purity on her own character. She has stated that Night Jewel would pretty much need the help of another, preferably powerful, unicorn to tag team the defenses. Maybe at least Icy or Stellar level kind of magic. I gather from her post that Night Jewel's ability is less raw power, and more finesse kind of thing.

[Kelvin360]

The 3 points have already appeared

-The Red Earthie's demanding for them to be let outside of the town without any pursuing guards in exchange for the hostage
-As of now, the griffon's already showing interest, just waiting on Amish's guards if they are too
-Same as the 1st one, PLUS that "do not attack the demandants" should be an obvious one

I didn't notice any of those, which doesn't make them invalid. Translated: Yep, I screwed up there, that's on me.

The whole problem is that Thunderbolt is already breaking the demands before the others even reacted, that's what I meant before when I said you were "pushing it", she may be Meh personified when it comes to the others, but even so it's kinda interfering with their interaction even before they reacted, it's kind of taking the decision for them and canceling the event.

Admission #2 - Yes, I now concur that I most likely completely screwed up this entire situation for everyone by getting involved. Pretty much all my arguments up to this point have been posturing (see my above speech about 'winning').

I do have a question, though. Why would they bother to negotiate?

And I'm waiting to see the outcome of this too. From what you're saying, I'd think that Thunderbolt would at least consider the fact that this random griffon is taking the interest of these ponies to heart.

Mind you, this could be nullified if she's taking a multi-round action to pry off the helmet further, and the griffon tells her to step off next round.

Metaphor time. If you beat off an eagle that was trying to snatch away a baby, would you take orders from the baby if it told you to be nice to the eagle?

[PurityIcekiller]

I think you're severely underestimating the difficulty imposed by Purity on her own character. She has stated that Night Jewel would pretty much need the help of another, preferably powerful, unicorn to tag team the defenses. Maybe at least Icy or Stellar level kind of magic. I gather from her post that Night Jewel's ability is less raw power, and more finesse kind of thing.

Aside from my gender, you're absolutely right. In terms of sheer power, Night Jewel may well have the weakest magic of anypony here who actually has it, and is not so much a mage as a thief with a couple of spells. Her effectiveness comes almost entirely from how she uses the power she has.

[Grif]

Aside from my gender, you're absolutely right. In terms of sheer power, Night Jewel may well have the weakest magic of anypony here who actually has it, and is not so much a mage as a thief with a couple of spells. Her effectiveness comes almost entirely from how she uses the power she has.

Egad. My apologies.

Sometimes I get used to thinking of someone as their character, instead of a separate entity. In this case, you can probably guess I was thinking of Night Jewel.

@Grif
Essentially the image Amish posted but with a zeppelin balloon sort of thing as well. The Cirrus has been described in the past to have a balloon with protected plates made of experimental (alien) metal, courtesy of Balboa Industries, its lightweight but also very strong against puncturing and damage. Also criss crossed with ropes, as I remember a scene mentioning those.

Actually, the balloon thing somewhere above the ship-hull. In any case, it looks like a good template to start with.

[TheAmishPirate]

I do have a question, though. Why would they bother to negotiate?

From my perspective, their plan to snag the griffon has utterly failed. The Town Guard is out in force, they're starting to lose, and if more reinforcements come, they could be in dire straits. Best to cut losses and run while they can, and call it a successful terror mission instead.

Metaphor time. If you beat off an eagle that was trying to snatch away a baby, would you take orders from the baby if it told you to be nice to the eagle?

Alternate metaphor: The eagle is holding a second baby threateningly in its talons, and the first baby asks you to hold off on beating the eagle senseless until after it lets go of its friend.

You start to wonder where these super-intelligent babies and eagles are coming from.

[PurityIcekiller]

Egad. My apologies.

Sometimes I get used to thinking of someone as their character, instead of a separate entity. In this case, you can probably guess I was thinking of Night Jewel.

Don't worry. You're nowhere near the first, and I actually find it amusing. I do have a tendency to make my important characters female, to the point where you could consider me a heroine addict.

[Grif]

Y'know.

I think Lone Star and Esmeralda are going to forget about the time anyway.