Magic: The Gathering Thread XIV: Instant Annoying, Just Add Hexproof

[Landis963]

Maybe there will be an Izzet deck with Delver, Talrand, Runchanters pike and Snapcaster.

I'm assuming this is a joke, but still. Delver is more Simic than Izzet, IMO, Talrand's on Shandalar In Name Only, and while Snapcaster fits the Izzet philosophy of "more Instants! More Sorceries! Muhahahahaaa!" I just don't see flashback as an Izzet mechanic. Dimir, maybe, but not Izzet. And Runechanter's pike would be broken in half in an Izzet deck.

[tgva8889]

^ I have no idea what this comment was even responding to.

Maybe there will be an Izzet deck with Delver, Talrand, Runchanters pike and Snapcaster.

As much as it may seem to be so, I don't actually think Runechanter's Pike and Talrand are actually that great in the same deck. It's just completely unnecessary to play both of them, there are way better things you could play (like more cantrips or instants) and you're going to be killing much more with Talrand drakes than you ever would with Pike.

It is interesting to consider a blue control deck with Talrand and lots of removal in your second color.

[Fable Wright]

Spoilers on RTR below.

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Golgari Mechanic has apparently been discovered as the following:

Source please?

I'm assuming this is a joke, but still. Delver is more Simic than Izzet, IMO, Talrand's on Shandalar In Name Only, and while Snapcaster fits the Izzet philosophy of "more Instants! More Sorceries! Muhahahahaaa!" I just don't see flashback as an Izzet mechanic. Dimir, maybe, but not Izzet. And Runechanter's pike would be broken in half in an Izzet deck.

...No, he's talking about an Izzet-colored standard deck running all of the above cards, given that those synergize with the Izzet strategy of casting lots and lots of Instants and Sorceries. Not that these cards, which were recently printed, will be miraculously reprinted as Izzet cards the next block.

[memnarch]

Source please?


...

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Apparently this is/was at GenCon.

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Deadbridge Goliath
Scavenge (exile this card from your graveyard to put x plus 1 plus 1 counters on target freature where x is this creatures power. Use this ability only as a sorcery)
5/5

[Ninjaman]

As much as it may seem to be so, I don't actually think Runechanter's Pike and Talrand are actually that great in the same deck. It's just completely unnecessary to play both of them, there are way better things you could play (like more cantrips or instants) and you're going to be killing much more with Talrand drakes than you ever would with Pike.

Yea, but you can only run that many Talrands in a deck. And what about if you remove the pikes and run Talrand, snapcaster, and delver. Would that be possible?

It is interesting to consider a blue control deck with Talrand and lots of removal in your second color.

Vile rebirth seems good with talrand. And Talrand out+ Vile rebirth+ Snapcaster+ Flashback Vile rebirth= 5 creatures for 4 mana and 2 cards. Might be doable.

[tgva8889]

Yea, but you can only run that many Talrands in a deck. And what about if you remove the pikes and run Talrand, snapcaster, and delver. Would that be possible?

For one, if you're going to play Talrand, you're also going to play every cheap Instant or Sorcery with the phrase "Draw a card" on it that you possibly can, so even with just 4 Talrands it shouldn't be too impossible to get another copy or so. You will have other threats, sure, but Pike isn't a threat, it's a supplement. Pike is trying to do something completely different than Talrand is.

I mean, there are mono-blue Talrand decks right now. I'm sure some of those decks will exist in the future, but they do lose major tools in the Phyrexian Mana spells, which makes Talrand weaker in the style of deck they are playing.

I feel like it would be worth separating Talrand from Delver of Secrets. While flipping a Delver on turn 2 is a surefire way to steal some game wins, Talrand actually feels like he plays better in a deck that is looking to win in the long game, especially if you don't have free spells. Putting Talrand in the tempo shell doesn't seem like it will work nearly as well now.

[Zavoniki]

I just want to echo the disappearance of Delver the card, but not U/x tempo the deck. Snapcaster + Talrand +(maybe Delver) is a powerful engine that can play most of the remaining Delver cards + whatever appears in RtR.

Also miracling Bonfire with Talrand in play is awesome. Because now Bonfire can be more than just insane, it can be insane with value!

[Lhurgyof]

FtV: Realms UPDATE!

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The list now is, listed from best to worst is: Maze of Ith, Vesuva, Urborg, Boseiju, Ancient Tomb, Forbidden Orchard, Grove of the Burnwillows, Dryad Arbor, Desert, Windbrisk Heights... and that's it for good cards.

Crap cards? Well, this FtV has a slew of them: High Market (Dang that's bad), Cephalid Colosseum (What the hell, really?), Glacial Chasm (not too good, not too bad.), Shivan Gorge (now we're just getting desperate, Wizards. Really? Not even Valakut for the "red land"?). I know that most FtV's have their "crap card", but this one has four. Four terrible lands that will sit in my trade binder for eternity.

Maze is a HUGE boon (already have one, but another is nice), Vesuva's are always good. I needed an Ancient Tomb, and the others are pretty good.

But those four lands are terribad. Like, some of the FtV: Legends cards were pitiful, but these are down right unplayable. And no spoiler card? Shame on you, Wizards!


TL;DR Pros: Maze of Ith, Boseiju, Vesuva

Cons: Shivan Gorge, Cephalid Colosseum, High Market.

[arguskos]

FtV: Realms UPDATE!

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The list now is, listed from best to worst is: Maze of Ith, Vesuva, Urborg, Boseiju, Ancient Tomb, Forbidden Orchard, Grove of the Burnwillows, Dryad Arbor, Desert, Windbrisk Heights... and that's it for good cards.

Crap cards? Well, this FtV has a slew of them: High Market (Dang that's bad), Cephalid Colosseum (What the hell, really?), Glacial Chasm (not too good, not too bad.), Shivan Gorge (now we're just getting desperate, Wizards. Really? Not even Valakut for the "red land"?). I know that most FtV's have their "crap card", but this one has four. Four terrible lands that will sit in my trade binder for eternity.

Maze is a HUGE boon (already have one, but another is nice), Vesuva's are always good. I needed an Ancient Tomb, and the others are pretty good.

But those four lands are terribad. Like, some of the FtV: Legends cards were pitiful, but these are down right unplayable. And no spoiler card? Shame on you, Wizards!


TL;DR Pros: Maze of Ith, Boseiju, Vesuva

Cons: Shivan Gorge, Cephalid Colosseum, High Market.

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High Market is a classic and AMAZING EDH land. Getting a beautiful new foil version is fantastic. Not sure why you're complaining about that one.

Shivan and Desert are the only really "meh" options here. Everything else at least has a good story and had its day in the sun. Sure, we'd all have liked Wasteland and Karakas, but realism is a cruel bitch sometimes. *shrug*

Looks good to me. Wish I had the cash to throw at it. God dammit I hate being poor.

[Lord Seth]

FtV: Realms UPDATE!

Spoiler

Show

The list now is, listed from best to worst is: Maze of Ith, Vesuva, Urborg, Boseiju, Ancient Tomb, Forbidden Orchard, Grove of the Burnwillows, Dryad Arbor, Desert, Windbrisk Heights... and that's it for good cards.

Crap cards? Well, this FtV has a slew of them: High Market (Dang that's bad), Cephalid Colosseum (What the hell, really?), Glacial Chasm (not too good, not too bad.), Shivan Gorge (now we're just getting desperate, Wizards. Really? Not even Valakut for the "red land"?). I know that most FtV's have their "crap card", but this one has four. Four terrible lands that will sit in my trade binder for eternity.

Maze is a HUGE boon (already have one, but another is nice), Vesuva's are always good. I needed an Ancient Tomb, and the others are pretty good.

But those four lands are terribad. Like, some of the FtV: Legends cards were pitiful, but these are down right unplayable. And no spoiler card? Shame on you, Wizards!


TL;DR Pros: Maze of Ith, Boseiju, Vesuva

Cons: Shivan Gorge, Cephalid Colosseum, High Market.

You'd put Vesuva ahead of Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth?

[tgva8889]

Karakas is actually no longer printable, as I think it's on the Reserved List? A lot of the good lands are (Tabernacle, Tolarian Academy, and Gaea's Cradle off the top of my head).

Glacial Chasm is not only a Legacy playable, but it was a key element of some historic combo decks from what I remember. High Market is actually an EDH staple, you play it in most decks with creatures. Those are actually worth quite a bit in foil, as well, so it's worth a pick-up. Desert is meh but it is the first nonbasic land that did something other than tap for mana ever so it is quite the historic Realm. Cephalid Coliseum is an extremely powerful Dredge enabler in Legacy. It might not be worth as much but it's definitely a nice inclusion.

They probably didn't include Wasteland because the box set as it is will sell for twice or even three times its MSRP. Wasteland by itself would sell another similar box set, so they probably chose not to put it in this one for value.

Shivan Gorge, however, is just a foolish inclusion. You can tell while watching Evan Erwin unbox it that he's trying to come up with a reason to be excited about that card and failing.

I think the biggest oversight is the lack of Rishadan Port, one of the few lands they could have included that was actually banned from Standard tournament play.

[Lord Seth]

Karakas is actually no longer printable, as I think it's on the Reserved List?

It's not on the list.

[Penguinizer]

Karakas has the same issue as Wasteland. It's worth so much by itself that it'd hike up the price of the box even more than it's usually hiked up. I'm lucky enough to have bought my playset of Karakas at 5 bucks each.

[Lord Seth]

Markups are annoying. I wish Wizards would reprint more things in Standard sets. It prevents markups (usually) and makes there be a much higher quantity than limited run stuff like From the Vaults. It'd be a great way to make Grim Tutor more affordable...the card's frustratingly expensive, and I don't think there'd be power level issues with reprinting it.

[Lhurgyof]

Karakas is actually no longer printable, as I think it's on the Reserved List? A lot of the good lands are (Tabernacle, Tolarian Academy, and Gaea's Cradle off the top of my head).

Glacial Chasm is not only a Legacy playable, but it was a key element of some historic combo decks from what I remember. High Market is actually an EDH staple, you play it in most decks with creatures. Those are actually worth quite a bit in foil, as well, so it's worth a pick-up. Desert is meh but it is the first nonbasic land that did something other than tap for mana ever so it is quite the historic Realm. Cephalid Coliseum is an extremely powerful Dredge enabler in Legacy. It might not be worth as much but it's definitely a nice inclusion.

They probably didn't include Wasteland because the box set as it is will sell for twice or even three times its MSRP. Wasteland by itself would sell another similar box set, so they probably chose not to put it in this one for value.

Shivan Gorge, however, is just a foolish inclusion. You can tell while watching Evan Erwin unbox it that he's trying to come up with a reason to be excited about that card and failing.

I think the biggest oversight is the lack of Rishadan Port, one of the few lands they could have included that was actually banned from Standard tournament play.

High Maket is cool and all, but there are Miren and Diamond Valley that can be run. It's certainly okay, and may go into my Karn deck. But some of the crap cards in here are worse than the FtV: legends crap cards.

[tgva8889]

Sure, but 1) Diamond Valley is on the Reserved List and therefore not an option and 2) Foil Miren, the Moaning Well is worth half a foil High Market. Regular High Markets are worth more than Mirens and they're out of stock at StarCityGames. I think High Market is actually quite a valuable card.

It's also actually better than Miren in many situations. It's not actually the life gain that you care about, it's the sacrifice. I've played both in EDH, and not having to leave up 4 mana is actually quite awesome.

I think they should reprint more cards. Some are harder (Karakas), some are much easier (This long to reprint the shocks?) and some are baffling (Wasteland). But I don't think things should cost this much.

[Lhurgyof]

Sure, but 1) Diamond Valley is on the Reserved List and therefore not an option and 2) Foil Miren, the Moaning Well is worth half a foil High Market. Regular High Markets are worth more than Mirens and they're out of stock at StarCityGames. I think High Market is actually quite a valuable card.

It's also actually better than Miren in many situations. It's not actually the life gain that you care about, it's the sacrifice. I've played both in EDH, and not having to leave up 4 mana is actually quite awesome.

I think they should reprint more cards. Some are harder (Karakas), some are much easier (This long to reprint the shocks?) and some are baffling (Wasteland). But I don't think things should cost this much.

I just hope they're not marked up too much, or not at all.

One store isn't getting any (it isn't really a card store at all), one store isn't doing pre-orders, and the other store isn't accepting pre-orders yet.

I see what you mean about the High Market. It's good, but certainly not as stunning as some of the other cards printed.

I think the Maze spoiled me.

[tgva8889]

Maze is great. It's just so obviously good compared to most lands (that don't tap for multiple colors of mana). Maze is basically a spell. It also hits all three of the key elements of a From the Vaults card: Powerful, Historic, and Valuable.

[Lord Seth]

I think they should reprint more cards. Some are harder (Karakas),

Yeah, it is tough to know where they'd put it...not just a gameplay perspective, but why the heck would Karakas be back from a flavor perspective?

some are much easier (This long to reprint the shocks?)

In all fairness to Wizards of the Coast, it wasn't until Modern came along that the shocklands were desired/expensive enough for them to try to reprint them for that reason.

Essentially, what happened to them is what's happening to the Scars of Mirrodin dual lands: Once they rotated out of Standard, everyone stopped caring about them. Seachrome Coasts are currently half the cost they were half a year ago. Why? Because with them rotating out of Standard, people don't have much use for them anymore.

However, for the shocklands, Modern came along and the prices of the shocklands shot up because suddenly there was a reason to play with them as something other than a budget alternative to the original dual lands. Return to Ravnica comes out a little more than one year after Modern was announced...considering the lead time that's necessary to make sets, that doesn't seem an unreasonable amount of time for a reprint, assuming they're in the block.

and some are baffling (Wasteland). But I don't think things should cost this much.

Wasteland, to be fair, had gotten some reprints. It's been reprinted as a Judge Rewards card. I doubt that's done much to lower its price, but it probably knocked it down a little.

The tricky thing about a Wasteland reprint is that the best way to increase volume is to put it in a Standard set, but Wasteland in Standard means Wasteland is in Modern, and Wasteland...well, it's critical in Legacy to counteract the power of cards like the dual lands or The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, but it seems a bit too strong for Modern.

That's a problem with the Modern format. It makes it a lot harder to possibly reprint expensive Legacy cards because the best way to fix that would be to introduce them into a format that's not really meant for them.

I still think they should reprint Grim Tutor though. I don't think it's too powerful for Modern.

[Zavoniki]

I still think they should reprint Grim Tutor though. I don't think it's too powerful for Modern.

That might be a bit too strong for Standard, but its perfectly fine in modern, and in fact seems a bit weak(the 3 life loss is a lot when combined with shocklands). Merchant Scroll is legal in Modern... And Gifts Ungiven grabbing Unburial Rites Gristelbrand is a pillar of the format. So is the 2W enchantment tutor. Grim tutor fits right in there as the black tutor. Now we just need a Green tutor(3G search for a creature???) and a red tutor(1R search for a sorcery???).

[Sith_Happens]

a red tutor(1R search for a sorcery???).

Does Burning Wish count as a red sorcery tutor for 1R?

[Lord Seth]

That might be a bit too strong for Standard,

From what I can tell, Diabolic Tutor was barely played in the format when it was legal. So I don't think Grim Tutor is really too strong.

Now we just need a Green tutor(3G search for a creature???) and a red tutor(1R search for a sorcery???).

They did have a Green tutor. It was called Green Sun's Zenith and it got banned. There is still Summoner's Pact, I guess.

Does Burning Wish count as a red sorcery tutor for 1R?

I think he was talking about Modern.

[Sith_Happens]

I think he was talking about Modern.

Yes. Specifically, his last sentence was talking about cards he thinks should be added to Modern. I was asking if reprinting Burning Wish would count as one of them.

[Zombimode]

The tricky thing about a Wasteland reprint is that the best way to increase volume is to put it in a Standard set, but Wasteland in Standard means Wasteland is in Modern, and Wasteland...well, it's critical in Legacy to counteract the power of cards like the dual lands or The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, but it seems a bit too strong for Modern.

Yeah, but there are other ways to increase stock without affecting modern. Look at what happened to Sol Ring. About a year and half ago it was a 20+€ card. Now its about 1/10 of its former price, because it get reprinted as a uncommon in lots of special sets, that don't affect Modern.
Also, in my experience, FtV rarely affects prices all that much. FtV are all Foil and the print run is small.

[Lhurgyof]

Yeah, but there are other ways to increase stock without affecting modern. Look at what happened to Sol Ring. About a year and half ago it was a 20+€ card. Now its about 1/10 of its former price, because it get reprinted as a uncommon in lots of special sets, that don't affect Modern.
Also, in my experience, FtV rarely affects prices all that much. FtV are all Foil and the print run is small.

My revised Sol Ring is down to only $7... That makes me sad.

[tgva8889]

Wasteland, to be fair, had gotten some reprints. It's been reprinted as a Judge Rewards card. I doubt that's done much to lower its price, but it probably knocked it down a little.

The tricky thing about a Wasteland reprint is that the best way to increase volume is to put it in a Standard set, but Wasteland in Standard means Wasteland is in Modern, and Wasteland...well, it's critical in Legacy to counteract the power of cards like the dual lands or The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, but it seems a bit too strong for Modern.

That's a problem with the Modern format. It makes it a lot harder to possibly reprint expensive Legacy cards because the best way to fix that would be to introduce them into a format that's not really meant for them.

I still think they should reprint Grim Tutor though. I don't think it's too powerful for Modern.

They could just ban it.

[Lord Seth]

They could just ban it.

Why would they need to? The card hardly seems overpowered.

[Sith_Happens]

Why would they need to? The card hardly seems overpowered.

I think he means Wasteland.

[tgva8889]

They could just ban Wasteland in Modern. Problem solved! They have said they're entirely willing to use the Banned List as a tool to keep eternal formats interesting.

[9mm]

Why would they need to? The card hardly seems overpowered.

It does ugly things to Jund. Though, really, it does ugly things to any deck that relies on non-basics to smooth out painful curves: something Magic as a whole isn't still comfortable with.