Magic: The Gathering Thread XIV: Instant Annoying, Just Add Hexproof

[breakdownjason]

Ok, so I just redid my deck from a little while back (just in time for this week's FNM) and was hoping for some feedback on it (mainly since I think the sideboard could still use a little work), so here goes.

Spoiler

Show

Lands
Swamp x21
Ghost Quarter x2

Creatures
Gravecrawler x4
Diregraf Ghoul x4
Blood Artist x4
Cemetary Reaper x2
Geralf's Messenger x4
Phyrexian Obliterator

Spells
Doom Blade x2
Tragic Slip x3
Altar's Reap x2
Go for the Throat x3
Despise x3
Killing Wave x3

Artifacts
Mimic Vat x2

Sideboard
Surgical Extraction x2
Appetite for Brains x2
Killing Wave
Despise
Duress x2
Altar's Reap
Demonlord of Ashmouth x2
Hex Parasite
Ratchet Bomb
Nihil Spellbomb x2

So not exactly the most creative deck, but it gets pretty insane if I drop a couple of Blood Artists followed by a Killing Wave. Otherwise it's a quick Aggro deck with a fair amount of removal (both spot and board wipe(esque)) that inflicts a lot of pain on slower decks and makes them think twice about using removal on my creatures as well with a couple Blood Artist's active. Mimic Vat is for annoying Green decks that run Thragtusk.

The board is a little narrow in scope in my opinion and is probably the part of the deck that needs the most work.

PEACH guys!

[Fable Wright]

Hm... I'm not really sure about Altar's Reap or Despise in your deck. I mean, Despise I can see out of the sideboard, but it just doesn't seem like that good a card. Altar's Reap... ideal situation is Gravecrawler + Altar's Reap, at which point it becomes a Divination. Or Geralf's Messenger + Reap, but it still doesn't feel that strong to me...

Personally, I'm a fan of Fume Spitters in this deck. They do a lot of work- there's almost always a 1-toughness guy to kill, and if there isn't, it can always chump and sacrifice to get a rebuy on Messenger or make a combat trade more profitable. Relatedly, Mortarpod is the nuts in this deck. It comes down on turn 2 and kills a 1-drop, and then lategame, you get it with a Gravecrawler or Messenger to burn them out. It can also work with Cemetary Reaper tokens. I definitely recommend using at least 2. They just give you so much value...

As for the board, moving Mimic Vat there and adding in more Cemetary Reapers might be a course of action. You get a lot more Lord effects going around, and making Zombie tokens means additional fuel without having to actually cast cards. In the board, Demonlord, Altar's Reap, and maybe Nihil Spellbombs should come out. It obviously depends on your meta, but I personally don't see many graveyard decks in my store, and they don't generally pose any threat to my deck. If you have the money, Liliana is something that is really, really good in this deck. Even just 2, she's a removal machine that eats control decks with her +1 (while you discard nothing from your empty hand) and can soak up some aggression for you. Phyrexian Metamorph or Geth's Verdicts are probably good ideas to kill off Geist of St. Traft, which is an annoying and rather lethal card. Verdicts used to be pretty good against Dungrove Elders too, when they used to be big, and Metamorph's good with Undying, so take your pick.[/2cents]

[raymundo]

Greetings,

I'll attend my first FNM this week, do you guys have any advice? Like stuff that new people regularly don't know? Any hints are greatly appreciated!

I also want to show you the deck I'll bring:

Spoiler

Show

U/R Delver Tempo/Aggro/Burn
mtgdeckbuilder link

20 Lands
-----
9 Island
4 Sulfur Falls
6 Mountain
1 Desolate Lighthouse


12 Creature spells
-----
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Dungeon Geists
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Invisible Stalker
3 Stormblood Berserker


28 Non-Creature Spells
-----
2 Runechanter's Pike
1 Incinerate
4 Mana Leak
4 Vapor Snag
2 Gut Shot
2 Brimstone Volley
2 Arc Trail
2 Pillar of Flame
1 Devil's Play
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder


Sideboard
-----
1 Zealous Conscripts
2 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Negate
2 Slagstorm
2 Mental Misstep
1 Pillar of Flame
1 Brimstone Volley
2 Smelt
1 Ghost Quarter

The land count is tight, but well manageable with the cantrips and low mana-curve. Bonfire and Snapcaster are beyond my budget, sadly.
Devil's Play is a one-of as a flexible burn spell who might end a drawn-out game or bring some surprise burn from the GY. Brimstone Volley is mostly used to punish my opponent's removal spells with five damage to the face and the rest of my burn suite is built for flexibility.

I'm open for suggestions, especially regarding the sideboard. Is Surgical Extraction any good?

[Lord Seth]

Why are you using Nihil Spellbomb? Unless you're playing Black, Tormod's Crypt is strictly better.

[raymundo]

Why are you using Nihil Spellbomb? Unless you're playing Black, Tormod's Crypt is strictly better.

Primarily because I had two spellbombs and only one crypt avaiable, but I'll mix them (unless I get another one on tomorrow's draft).

I somehow failed to notice the zero mana cost of the crypt.. Thank you

[breakdownjason]

Update

So I stopped in at my local shop today looking for a couple things to upgrade (especially the Mortarpods since they sound amazing), and sadly they were completely sold out of them. I did pick up a second Birthing Pod though both of which are now main decked and I cut the Demonlord of Ashmouth's and pushed my Mimic Vats to the Sideboard. I'm also likely going to put two Geth's Verdicts in the sideboard to deal with nasty little hexproof creatures that I may normally have problems with aside from Killing Waves. I'll be sure to post the updated deck and a recap of my FNM hijinks that I'm sure I'll be getting up to as well. And Birthing Pod? Greatest. Suggestion. Ever. You guys are amazing.

[Lord Seth]

Update

So I stopped in at my local shop today looking for a couple things to upgrade (especially the Mortarpods since they sound amazing), and sadly they were completely sold out of them. I did pick up a second Birthing Pod though both of which are now main decked and I cut the Demonlord of Ashmouth's and pushed my Mimic Vats to the Sideboard. I'm also likely going to put two Geth's Verdicts in the sideboard to deal with nasty little hexproof creatures that I may normally have problems with aside from Killing Waves. I'll be sure to post the updated deck and a recap of my FNM hijinks that I'm sure I'll be getting up to as well. And Birthing Pod? Greatest. Suggestion. Ever. You guys are amazing.

What's your plan for dealing with Sigarda, then?

[tgva8889]

What's ANYONE'S plan for dealing with Sigarda? Do you even need one in current Standard besides "make them too dead for it to matter"?

[Duos]

Kill it with Silklash Spider?

[Lord Seth]

What's ANYONE'S plan for dealing with Sigarda?

Phantasmal Image. If you're not in Blue, then Phyrexian Metamorph.

[Zavoniki]

Phantasmal Image. If you're not in Blue, then Phyrexian Metamorph.

What about post rotation? After the Legend-Killers rotate are their any good answers to Sigarda(or Geist of Saint Traft)? I mean we have Clone and... Silklash seems decent against Sigarda, and so does Lingering Souls for that matter. And Lilliana and... uhm... Tribute to Hunger for Geist? I hope we get some answers in Return to Ravnica.

A general question to all of you(in keeping with the thread name) what do you think of hexproof as a mechanic and, separately, of how the mechanic has been used so far?

Personally I think I'm really missing shroud. It was much more balanced. It's just... Invisible Stalker + Butcher's Cleaver is nearly impossible to beat. And I think Geist would have been fine with shroud instead of hexproof. Still good, still played, but not nearly as good as it is. The fact that you get to target is just so good. I mean Spectral Flight is a card, a real card. Spectral flight. +2/+2 and flying for 2. It got played in Legacy(though I don't think that had nearly as much to do with Hexproof as with general weirdness present in the Universe.) Admittedly Sigarda hasn't broken any formats but both Phantasmal Image and Phyrexian Metamorph laugh in her face. And they are going away.

tl;dr Hexproof is bad, I want shroud back, discuss.

[Lord Seth]

What about post rotation?

I thought we were talking about presently.

After the Legend-Killers rotate are their any good answers to Sigarda(or Geist of Saint Traft)?

There's plenty of good answers to Geist of Saint Traft, considering the only thing you need for a good answer is a creature that can block and has power 2 or greater.

Personally I think I'm really missing shroud. It was much more balanced. It's just... Invisible Stalker + Butcher's Cleaver is nearly impossible to beat.

Except it's also hard to get going. The problem with Invisible Stalker, and the reason I cut them from my deck, is because without equipment, it's pretty mediocre (do you play Curse of the Pierced Heart? No? I don't play Invisible Stalker for the same reason). I'd much rather run creatures that are good with or without equipment.

To be fair, however, Invisible Stalker is absurd in Limited. But in Constructed it's fine.

And I think Geist would have been fine with shroud instead of hexproof. Still good, still played, but not nearly as good as it is.

I think Geist of Saint Traft is fine as is, to be honest.

[Zombimode]

So, I'm working on a post-rotation Standard deck.

Spoiler

Show

Creatures: 13
4x Duty-Bound Dead
2x Knight of Infamy
3x Falkenrath Aristocrat
2x Disciple of Bolas
1x Shimian Specter
1x Nefarox, Overlord of Grixis / any other fatty (maybe the new Rakdos?)

Other Spells: 24
4x Vile Rebirth
4x Tragic Slip
4x Bump in the Night
2x Crippling Blight
3x *other removal* currently Terminate as placeholder
2x Mutilate
1x Rise from the Grave
1x Staff of Nin
3x Magmaquake

Land: 23
4x Dragonskull Summit
4x *other B/R dual* currently Blood Crypt 'cause come on!
4x Cathedral of War
7x Swamp
4x Mountain

The general gist is to disrupt the enemies army with spot-removal and sweepers and then smash for the win with Exalted-powered Falkenraths.
In practice the Duty-Bound Dead and Knights can do some early work on the opponents life total. I also like the interaction between Exalted and the sweepers I'm using, especially Magmaquake. The instant speed opens a lot of new possibilities. I like attacking with a dude a want to keep, let the Exalted triggers resolve, and then cast Magmaquake to clear the board including potential blockers, but leaving the attacker alive.
Vile Rebirth maindeck is there for several reasons. It is good against Zombies, a main player in Standard, probably even after rotation. It also helps against Reanimator, should it come up. But it has other utility: it creates instant speed blockers, and provides food for Disciples and Falkenraths.
I really like Duty-Bound Dead. Exalted for one mana, regeneration in the late game as a bonus, and the high toughness goes well with the "attack-then-sweep" strategy discussed earlier.
Knight is brutal when the opponent does not get any blockers on the field in the early game. It also makes a good blocker against Geist of St. Traft.
Falkenrath Aristocrats are just great. The combination of Flying, 4-power, possbile Indestructibility, and most importantly Haste makes it the perfect fit for this strategy.
Cathedral of War is essential. Without it, I would not consider this strategy viable.

On speculative card choices: if we don't get shock duals in RTR, we will get some other form of basic land type duals. But the anticipation and expectation for a shock land reprint is so high, I doubt that WotC won't comply.
Now, Terminate is a more difficult matter. So far, the only reason to see Terminate in RTR is, well it's the Rakdos colors. It is a bit more powerful then other removal currently, but that could be used to show the destructive power of Rakdos. But tbh. I don't expect Terminate to show up in the upcoming block.

Sideboard: well, I would need to know the meta to make good choices, but options could include: Slumbering Dragon, Duress and Ghost Quarter.

So, what do you think? It is a viable strategy? Any comments on card choices?

I have tested it against Zombies and the matchup was quite favorable.



Hm, I just noticed a particularly large Loxodon in the corner:
No, I don't have any Bonfires. And if they don't go down considerably in price, which I highly doubt, I will not be able to pick up any. They are just to expensive to me.

[raymundo]

Does Sigarda see so much play in your area that you have to include answers for her in your mainboard? She can (usually) still be countered, Mutilate'd, Black Sun's Zenith'd, Terminus'd, Legend Rule'd (Clone, Phyrexian Metamorph, Phantasmal Image), Day of Judgment'd, Sun Titan Pacifism'd, Bonfire'd, Silklash Spider'd.. and there's various "Named card cannot be played"-effects. But packing some of these cards just for her seems kinda excessive, is she really that much of a thing in your places?

After the Legend-Killers rotate are their any good answers to Sigarda(or Geist of Saint Traft)?

There's plenty of good answers to Geist of Saint Traft, considering the only thing you need for a good answer is a creature that can block and has power 2 or greater.

Well, an argument in the same vein would be the mentioning of Deadly Recluse. But GoST is a topic on its own, he sure is a powerful card, but you can deal with him (and the GoST player can deal with you dealing with him).


On the Shroud vs. Hexproof debatte: I would have preferred Shroud. Imho it makes more sense flavour-wise and an ability as powerful as this should not come without a downside (though there are still so many answers to hexproof, it probably doesn't matter).

[tgva8889]

Phantasmal Image. If you're not in Blue, then Phyrexian Metamorph.

But do you even need these answers to Sigarda? No one is playing it right now, not having any answers to it is fine. Everyone who plays these cards plays them for other reasons, some of which are usually related to Geist of St. Traft.

Also, the "you only need a creature" isn't really true. Decks that play Geist can still play removal or bounce, at which point you are falling far behind as they undo turn and deal 6 to you. Decks that play Geist can save it with Restoration Angel, turning the blink into a Flames of the Blood Hand. Decks that play Geist can equip it or enchant it with any manner of things that make your creatures useless. Yes there are answers, but there aren't nearly as many answers as there are to other threats and the answers you can have are themselves cards worthy of being answered.

[Lord Seth]

But do you even need these answers to Sigarda? No one is playing it right now, not having any answers to it is fine. Everyone who plays these cards plays them for other reasons, some of which are usually related to Geist of St. Traft.

And Thrun, Thalia, Avacyn, Griselbrand, Elesh Norn, Gisela, Krenko...there's not really a shortage of decent legends.

Also, the "you only need a creature" isn't really true.

I never stated "you only need a creature," at least not in the way you are inferring. Don't put quotes around things I didn't say. I said the only thing you need for a good answer is any creature with a power of 2 or greater that can block is a good answer. And that's true. It is also true that something being a good answer doesn't mean it can't be stopped, for example, Choke is brutal against mono-Blue decks, but you can still counter it or (if you still have untapped lands) bounce it. But that doesn't mean Choke isn't a good answer for blue decks. Heck, there are ways around Phantasmal Image and Phyrexian Metamorph, and it's hard to say those aren't good answers to Geist of Saint Traft.

Decks that play Geist can still play removal or bounce, at which point you are falling far behind as they undo turn and deal 6 to you.

Geist of Saint Traft can't attack until the fourth turn at the earliest. It's not really that hard to get several creatures out in the meantime.

Decks that play Geist can save it with Restoration Angel, turning the blink into a Flames of the Blood Hand.

Well, unless you block the angel token. Though Restoration Angels are kind of a one-shot deal.

Decks that play Geist can equip it or enchant it with any manner of things that make your creatures useless. Yes there are answers, but there aren't nearly as many answers as there are to other threats

Yes, Geist of Saint Traft is harder to get rid of than most other creatures, but it's still not hard to get rid of. My point is you don't need more "good answers" to it because you already have them. Sweepers destroy it. Creatures with power 2 or greater kill it. And the especially big problem is that Geist is pretty mediocre if you're not attacking with it, meaning you have to send it straight into your opponent's creatures if you want to use it effectively. It isn't like cards like Thrun, Sigarda, or Dungrove Elder, where you can hang back with them if you need to to block with, Geist of Saint Traft needs to be attacking to be a good card.

and the answers you can have are themselves cards worthy of being answered.

And they can often be answered themselves. Just because an answer can be answered doesn't mean it's not a decent answer.

It's not hard to kill Geists of Saint Traft. I can say that from experience considering how easily the card dies. It's why people play it as a 4 of despite being legendary, they know how easily the card can go down.

[tgva8889]

And Thrun, Thalia, Avacyn, Griselbrand, Elesh Norn, Gisela, Krenko...there's not really a shortage of decent legends.

Sure but of that list only 3 of them see any play in relevant Standard decks, and Phantasmal Image is pretty abyssmal as "destroy target Thalia."

The way that Geist is used as a result of its colors, it is a problematic thing that there are few enough removal spells that can eliminate it. Whipflare and Slagstorm probably wouldn't be played if Geist didn't have Hexproof. Phantasmal Image would, but not nearly as much as it is now. I think a lot of cards are played today simply because Geist requires answers and creatures don't cut it. It isn't completely dominating in the same way Stoneforge Mystic and Jace were, but that doesn't mean it probably shouldn't be the way it is.

Also, I apologize for summarizing my understanding of your statement, I guess? The statement "a good answer for Geist of St. Traft is a creature with enough power to cause it to die in combat" isn't nearly as true as "a good answer for Geist of St. Traft is Phantasmal Image or Whipflare" because there are far fewer ways to make your answer not an answer at all. It does matter how effective your answer is at actually solving the problem you are trying to solve. A creature with 2 power may do it, but not immediately and not with near certainty. That's why it's far worse than Phantasmal Image and why people play Phantasmal Image in their sideboards.

[Lord Seth]

Sure but of that list only 3 of them see any play in relevant Standard decks, and Phantasmal Image is pretty abyssmal as "destroy target Thalia."

I've found it to be surprisingly good at that, actually.

The way that Geist is used as a result of its colors, it is a problematic thing that there are few enough removal spells that can eliminate it. Whipflare and Slagstorm probably wouldn't be played if Geist didn't have Hexproof.

I don't think so. Whipflare and Slagstorm are pretty powerful cards for clearing out the board.

Phantasmal Image would, but not nearly as much as it is now. I think a lot of cards are played today simply because Geist requires answers and creatures don't cut it. It isn't completely dominating in the same way Stoneforge Mystic and Jace were, but that doesn't mean it probably shouldn't be the way it is.

I see no problem with Geist of Saint Traft. I think it is a strong card, but it's also a fair card.

I've really got no idea why you bring up Stoneforge Mystic and Jace as comparisons, when the better analogies for those two would probably be Delver of Secrets and Snapcaster Mage.

Also, I apologize for summarizing my understanding of your statement, I guess? The statement "a good answer for Geist of St. Traft is a creature with enough power to cause it to die in combat" isn't nearly as true as "a good answer for Geist of St. Traft is Phantasmal Image or Whipflare" because there are far fewer ways to make your answer not an answer at all. It does matter how effective your answer is at actually solving the problem you are trying to solve. A creature with 2 power may do it, but not immediately and not with near certainty. That's why it's far worse than Phantasmal Image and why people play Phantasmal Image in their sideboards.

As someone who plays with Geist of Saint Traft, I can tell you that the fact it has a toughness of only 2 is a major weakness of the card. It's very easy for an opponent to just shut down the card with a relatively weak creature. And that's again because Geist of Saint Traft is only effective when it's attacking, which requires you to send it straight into the opponent's creatures.

If you want to talk overpowered creatures from the Innistrad block, you can certainly point to Snapcaster Mage, which I won't argue with, but I see no power issues with Geist of Saint Traft. It's a good card, to be sure, but so are plenty of other cards that, while good, are not overpowered.

[Zavoniki]

I've played a fair bit with both Geist and Snapcaster and I have to say Geist is far more powerful than Snapcaster. Snapcaster has the problem of being a bad creature(yes even though its 2/1 flash for 2, which a few years ago would have been at least decent, but now its just doesn't do very much). Its ability is fine, but not even that great for the most part. You need a critical mass of cheap instants, preferably one or less mana, to really break Snapcaster and currently only Legacy and Vintage have that. Geist on the other hand can just kill people. Yes it attacks on turn 4 at the earliest, but it attacks for 6. And if your blocking it its probably taking out your creature and your taking 4, which is practically a 2 for 1. And if they some how manage to prevent your blocker from blocking(bounce/kill/Restoration Angel) your facing another 6 the next turn. And sometimes you don't have an answer and then your just dead. It can also pick up a Pike/Sword/enchantment and then it cant really be blocked. Geist's problem is its a Ball Lightning that doesn't kill it self end of turn, which is already a good card, and requires some thought in killing it(You can't just Doom Blade it), and if it gets buffed it becomes much much harder to deal with.

The best/most powerful card in Innistrad is obviously Delver but I think Geist of Saint Traft is #2(followed probably by Kessig Wolf Run, followed by Gavony Town Ship, followed by Moorland Haunt, followed by Snapcaster)

[tgva8889]

Geist, for me, is problematic because it's Flames of the Blood Hand every turn it doesn't die. This isn't a card that I think should cost 3 mana, nor is it a card that I think is Blue or White. I have rarely seen it as a creature, which is why I feel creatures are poor answers to it. If I care about suspending my Flames of the Blood Hand for later, I won't trade, but if I don't, I'll just cast it on you now and do something else later. But if I have a way to save them and repeat them? Good lord how much mana I am saving by getting free Flames of the Blood Hand!

[Lord Seth]

I've played a fair bit with both Geist and Snapcaster and I have to say Geist is far more powerful than Snapcaster. Snapcaster has the problem of being a bad creature(yes even though its 2/1 flash for 2, which a few years ago would have been at least decent, but now its just doesn't do very much). Its ability is fine, but not even that great for the most part. You need a critical mass of cheap instants, preferably one or less mana, to really break Snapcaster and currently only Legacy and Vintage have that.

"Not that great for the most part"? Its ability is astounding. For just two mana--one of which can be any color--and at Instant speed, flashback on any Instant or Sorcery in your graveyard with a 2/1 on top of that. And no other card does this.

And what's this about how you only get a critical mass of cheap instants in Legacy and Vintage? What about Ponder, Vapor Snag, Gut Shot, Mutagenic Growth, Mana Leak, Gitaxian Probe, and Thought Scour, all Standard legal? And all playable in Blue? (we're not even getting into the Instants and Sorceries that can be used if you go into another color)

Just because Snapcaster Mage isn't usually the thing that actually comes over and kills someone doesn't mean it's not the best card in the deck.

You're underrating the card to a spectacular degree.

Geist's problem is its a Ball Lightning that doesn't kill it self end of turn, which is already a good card,

Ball Lightning...a good card? The card is okay, but outside of straight burn is mediocre, and even in straight burn (when it actually plays it) it seems to be one of the most cuttable cards in the deck.

and requires some thought in killing it(You can't just Doom Blade it), and if it gets buffed it becomes much much harder to deal with.

Just like how every card gets harder to deal with when buffed.

The best/most powerful card in Innistrad is obviously Delver but I think Geist of Saint Traft is #2(followed probably by Kessig Wolf Run, followed by Gavony Town Ship, followed by Moorland Haunt, followed by Snapcaster)

You're putting Gavony Township and Moorland Haunt ahead of Snapcaster Mage? I could even kinda see Kessig Wolf Run even if I strongly disagree, but seriously, Gavony Township and Moorland Haunt?

I, for one, would put Delver of Secrets and Snapcaster Mage as #1 and #2. I'm not sure which one I would put into which slot...kind of depends on how you go about qualifying it...but there is no way a card as good as Snapcaster Mage should be behind Gavony Township.

Geist, for me, is problematic because it's Flames of the Blood Hand every turn it doesn't die.

Unless you block or remove the Angel token, like I've seen people do many times.

Really, this "Flames of the Blood Hand" comparison seems pretty weak to me.

This isn't a card that I think should cost 3 mana, nor is it a card that I think is Blue or White.

Why isn't it Blue and White? Hexproof is Blue, and its token ability was done already by cards like Hero of Bladehold. I don't see any other colors I would put it in.

As for its cost, I'd agree if it wasn't legendary, but as it is, I think it's a fair price.

If I care about suspending my Flames of the Blood Hand for later, I won't trade, but if I don't, I'll just cast it on you now and do something else later. But if I have a way to save them and repeat them? Good lord how much mana I am saving by getting free Flames of the Blood Hand!

Because clearly the token can't be blocked or removed...

[tgva8889]

People blocking Flames is still fine if they do it, since the majority of the time their blocker dies. Either blocking or removing it is free extra cards for you, since they're basically countering a spell you are casting every turn. It's like if someone played a Pyroclasm after every time you attacked with Grave Titan. It would negate your advantage, sure, but it doesn't usually hurt that much because you didn't spend any cards getting there. You can destroy these free tokens, yes, and it saves you life. But it costs you cards and unless you are actually killing Geist you really aren't getting very far by doing so. When I've played with Geist and people are blocking the Angel token, it's a desperation move and I'm in the driver's seat of that game.

Vapor Snag isn't a particularly good card against UW Delver with Geists, so while it does save you 4 damage against Geist it's far worse than any of your other options. Most other removal spells that are played are either ineffective against the Angel or necessary for other purposes (mostly Restoration Angel/Hero of Bladehold) so the fact that they are spending them to gain 4 life instead is usually a fine proposition.

So I guess it's "Flames of the Blood Hand or your opponent discards a removal spell" the majority of the time, every turn. This is still quite good for a card that costs 3 and neither of those particular effects are really blue or white.

[Lord Seth]

So I guess it's "Flames of the Blood Hand or your opponent discards a removal spell" the majority of the time, every turn. This is still quite good for a card that costs 3 and neither of those particular effects are really blue or white.

But it is not a Flames of the Blood Hand. Thus this "it's not Blue or White" is nonsensical because you're claiming it's something it isn't.

The only argument you put forward is that it deals 4 damage, but that's like saying a Serra Angel is a Flames of the Blood Hand or that a Wild Nacatl/Delver of Secrets is a Lightning Bolt or that Hero of Bladehold gives you a double Gut Shot. It's saying something is something it isn't, and then deciding that that thing it isn't doesn't belong in its color, and thus it's out of color. It's nonsensical reasoning.

[tgva8889]

The reason I make the argument is that unlike all those other cards, the angel is completely and totally temporary. If you want me to be completely literal, Geist of St. Traft casts Hell's Thunder for you every turn. It's still a Red card. I just use Flames because it's easier for me to remember because it has an absurd name.

I can make the suggestion that Hell's Thunder plays very similarly to Flames of the Blood Hand, in that it is designed to deal 4 damage and then go to your graveyard (and therefore not stay on the battlefield). Both cards are Red, so I can then make the assumption that such an effect is Red. Geist of St. Traft also has an effect that replicates this, as the Angel is clearly designed to just attack for 4 once and then cease to be. The ability has previously been Red.

I use it more to discuss a feel, though. The idea of a creature as a burn spell (which is often what Geist becomes when you answer it with a creature that has 2 or more power) is a very Red idea, and Red is the color with many cards that function in this way. Geist does push towards this, especially by having a combination of abilities that's, as you suggested, not particularly strong on defense.

[KillItWithFire]

Hey, I've been playing Magic casually for a few years now and was bouncing around the idea of taking my deck to an event of some sort. But you know, I'm scared that with all these guys who know all the meta game stuffs I'll get trounced and waste my time. Is there a convienent way for me to post my deck and have you fine gentlemen tell me how you think I'd rate?

[Penguinizer]

Just put it in a spoiler. Separate it by card types (instant/sorcery, land, creature, enchantment/artifact). Also, tell us the format and any budget limitations.

[KillItWithFire]

Okay then here we go:

Spoiler

Show

Creatures:
Windwright Mage x2
Sharuum the Hegemon
Sanctum Gargoyle x2
Esper Battlemage x2
Sphinx Sovereign
Magister Sphinx
Metallurgeon x2
Tower Gargoyle
Master Transmuter
Salvage Titan
Enigma Sphinx
Tidehollow Strix x2
Tidehollow Sculler
Etched Champion
Etherium Sculptor x3
Master of Etherium
Sphinx of the Steel Wind
Sphinx's Herald
Sphinx Summoner
Ethersworn Canonist

Sorceries:

Artifacts:
Executioner's Capsule x2
Obelisk of Esper
Protomatter Powder
Scourglass
Unwinding Clock
Dispeller's Capsule

Instants:
Stoic Rebuttal
Esper Charm
Turn Aside

Planeswalkers:
Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas

Land:
Plains x5
Island x7
Swamp x6 (I thought I had 5 in there, this is news)
Arcane Sanctum x3
Esper Panorama x1

I also have 4 of each Ancient Den, Vault of Whispers, and Seat of the Synod that I use in place of some of the basic lands listed there but I also saw some formats don't like those guys, easy switch.

This deck cleans up in my casual circle and my friends consider it the most powerful deck in our circle of friends, but that's also casual play is why I ask for advice.

I recently spent quite a bit of money on boosters so I don't really spend any more money on cards for a while what with school right around the corner, that being said though I do have a rather sizable collection so I do have options. As for format, I don't really know much about the different formats but I guess modern was the one I looked at and read the rules of.

[Sith_Happens]

Okay then here we go:

Spoiler

Show

Creatures:
Windwright Mage x2
Sharuum the Hegemon
Sanctum Gargoyle x2
Esper Battlemage x2
Sphinx Sovereign
Magister Sphinx
Metallurgeon x2
Tower Gargoyle
Master Transmuter
Salvage Titan
Enigma Sphinx
Tidehollow Strix x2
Tidehollow Sculler
Etched Champion
Etherium Sculptor x3
Master of Etherium
Sphinx of the Steel Wind
Sphinx's Herald
Sphinx Summoner
Ethersworn Canonist

Sorceries:

Artifacts:
Executioner's Capsule x2
Obelisk of Esper
Protomatter Powder
Scourglass
Unwinding Clock
Dispeller's Capsule

Instants:
Stoic Rebuttal
Esper Charm
Turn Aside

Planeswalkers:
Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas

Land:
Plains x5
Island x7
Swamp x6 (I thought I had 5 in there, this is news)
Arcane Sanctum x3
Esper Panorama x1

I also have 4 of each Ancient Den, Vault of Whispers, and Seat of the Synod that I use in place of some of the basic lands listed there but I also saw some formats don't like those guys, easy switch.

This deck cleans up in my casual circle and my friends consider it the most powerful deck in our circle of friends, but that's also casual play is why I ask for advice.

Wow, I've seen brand new players build mono-green decks with less top-heavy mana curves than that. That plus almost no mana acceleration or ways to cheat permanents out means I have to ask, do most of your friends actually do anything for the first four turns?

[KillItWithFire]

They do, and so do I. I've been thinking of replacing some the heavier creatures, thing is when I play it's normally not a thing. Sphinx summoner can grab master transmuter which makes every single card I own cost U. (A way to cheat perms out.) And Sphinx Sovereign can be called with the herald, Salvage Titan also can be paid by sacing 3 artifacts, which has never been a problem, and to bring that all to a close I've got the 3 Etherium sculptors in there. I'd say Steel Wind comes out maybe 30% of the time.

I see what you're saying though... Mana curves have always been a problem of mine. But that's also why I'm posting here. If I do make some switches Enigma Sphinx and Magister Sphinx would be the first ones on the chopping block for a fourth sculptor and a plains.

EDIT: More mana acceleration... you mean ways to get more than one mana generating source on the field per turn yeah? The only thing I have that works there is the obelisk of esper, I got a bunch more of those if you think I should swap some in. As for cheating permanents in, I consider myself lucky to have the ONE master transmuter. If I had 4 I would make sure all of them were in there.

[BladeofObliviom]

I'm in a good mood. 2 boosters, and what do I get?

Sphinx of Uthuun, Jace (Memory Adept), Tormod's Crypt, Vile Rebirth, Reliquary Tower.

Woot for decent cards. Not as amusing as my first pair of Avacyn Restored packs (which involved Griselbrand and a Harvester of Souls), but still nice.