Magic: The Gathering Thread XIV: Instant Annoying, Just Add Hexproof

[Zombimode]

KillItWithFire: I like your deck. It looks fun to play. But safe yourself the trouble (and the entry fee) to go to sanctioned Modern (or heavens forbid a Legacy or Vintage) tournament with it. Its a casual deck, not a tournament one.

I'm in a good mood. 2 boosters, and what do I get?

Sphinx of Uthuun, Jace (Memory Adept), Tormod's Crypt, Vile Rebirth, Reliquary Tower.

Nice
Though personally I still doubt that planeswalkers are actually sold in booster packs, considering my record of never drawing any


Also, shameless bump for advice on a post-rotation standard deck:

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So, I'm working on a post-rotation Standard deck.

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Creatures: 13
4x Duty-Bound Dead
2x Knight of Infamy
3x Falkenrath Aristocrat
2x Disciple of Bolas
1x Shimian Specter
1x Nefarox, Overlord of Grixis / any other fatty (maybe the new Rakdos?)

Other Spells: 24
4x Vile Rebirth
4x Tragic Slip
4x Bump in the Night
2x Crippling Blight
3x *other removal* currently Terminate as placeholder
2x Mutilate
1x Rise from the Grave
1x Staff of Nin
3x Magmaquake

Land: 23
4x Dragonskull Summit
4x *other B/R dual* currently Blood Crypt 'cause come on!
4x Cathedral of War
7x Swamp
4x Mountain

The general gist is to disrupt the enemies army with spot-removal and sweepers and then smash for the win with Exalted-powered Falkenraths.
In practice the Duty-Bound Dead and Knights can do some early work on the opponents life total. I also like the interaction between Exalted and the sweepers I'm using, especially Magmaquake. The instant speed opens a lot of new possibilities. I like attacking with a dude a want to keep, let the Exalted triggers resolve, and then cast Magmaquake to clear the board including potential blockers, but leaving the attacker alive.
Vile Rebirth maindeck is there for several reasons. It is good against Zombies, a main player in Standard, probably even after rotation. It also helps against Reanimator, should it come up. But it has other utility: it creates instant speed blockers, and provides food for Disciples and Falkenraths.
I really like Duty-Bound Dead. Exalted for one mana, regeneration in the late game as a bonus, and the high toughness goes well with the "attack-then-sweep" strategy discussed earlier.
Knight is brutal when the opponent does not get any blockers on the field in the early game. It also makes a good blocker against Geist of St. Traft.
Falkenrath Aristocrats are just great. The combination of Flying, 4-power, possbile Indestructibility, and most importantly Haste makes it the perfect fit for this strategy.
Cathedral of War is essential. Without it, I would not consider this strategy viable.

On speculative card choices: if we don't get shock duals in RTR, we will get some other form of basic land type duals. But the anticipation and expectation for a shock land reprint is so high, I doubt that WotC won't comply.
Now, Terminate is a more difficult matter. So far, the only reason to see Terminate in RTR is, well it's the Rakdos colors. It is a bit more powerful then other removal currently, but that could be used to show the destructive power of Rakdos. But tbh. I don't expect Terminate to show up in the upcoming block.

Sideboard: well, I would need to know the meta to make good choices, but options could include: Slumbering Dragon, Duress and Ghost Quarter.

So, what do you think? It is a viable strategy? Any comments on card choices?

I have tested it against Zombies and the matchup was quite favorable.



Hm, I just noticed a particularly large Loxodon in the corner:
No, I don't have any Bonfires. And if they don't go down considerably in price, which I highly doubt, I will not be able to pick up any. They are just to expensive to me.

[KillItWithFire]

KillItWithFire: I like your deck. It looks fun to play. But save yourself the trouble (and the entry fee) to go to sanctioned Modern (or heavens forbid a Legacy or Vintage) tournament with it. Its a casual deck, not a tournament one.

What does a tournament deck look like then? Or wait I think I already know, not much variation in the deck, no surprises, same stuff every game it plays?

After what Sith Happens said though, even if I don't take it to a tournament I still want to make the deck better, I've got a couple of myrs hanging around I could throw in. Heading off to college soon so maybe there I'll find a way to avoid playing the same 6 people over and over.

[Fable Wright]

What does a tournament deck look like then? Or wait I think I already know, not much variation in the deck, no surprises, same stuff every game it plays?

After what Sith Happens said though, even if I don't take it to a tournament I still want to make the deck better, I've got a couple of myrs hanging around I could throw in. Heading off to college soon so maybe there I'll find a way to avoid playing the same 6 people over and over.

By and large, consistency is good. However, it isn't the exact same game every time, and it can still be enjoyable. Competetively, though, variation is bad due to the fact that your opponent is doing everything they can to stop you, specifically, from doing the silly things your deck was designed to do. Causal is fun, and tournaments can be rather serious. Especially for Eternal formats like Modern, where the cards usually take significant investment to amass.

If you want a format where each game is different and wacky shenanigans abound, try playing EDH or Planechase. Or a combination of both.

[KillItWithFire]

Ah see I don't know the formats very well and modern just seemed like the the most standard one you know? Okay I'll stick to casual games for now. This game costs way more than it has any right to.

[Fable Wright]

Ah see I don't know the formats very well and modern just seemed like the the most standard one you know? Okay I'll stick to casual games for now. This game costs way more than it has any right to.

As it turns out, Standard is the most standard one. (It has the most players out of any format and is generally the most accessible one to get into for competitive play.)

[KillItWithFire]

As it turns out, Standard is the most standard one. (It has the most players out of any format and is generally the most accessible one to get into for competitive play.)

Doesn't look like Alara is welcome in standard... Though my dad just informed me that a b-day present for me just arrived at the door in the form of each of the 5 intro packs from new pheyraxia. So we'll see how that goes.

EDIT: New idea for a casual deck: First off, my sister got Door to Nothingness in a booster recently so I might trade her for that and fill the rest of the deck with myrs. Throw 5 basic lands of each color in there and see if I can't make a whole deck about that door.

[Bucky]

EDIT: New idea for a casual deck: First off, my sister got Door to Nothingness in a booster recently so I might trade her for that and fill the rest of the deck with myrs. Throw 5 basic lands of each color in there and see if I can't make a whole deck about that door.

Needs more dual lands. And maybe Kaleidostone. And also something else to do with the myrs.

[Lord Seth]

What does a tournament deck look like then? Or wait I think I already know, not much variation in the deck, no surprises, same stuff every game it plays?

Let's take a look!

One great place to look at decks is the Star City Games Opens, as they occur on a (fairly) weekly basis around the United States. So here's the top 16 decks from the most recent tournaments:
Top 16 at the StarCityGames Kansas City Standard Open
Top 16 at the StarCityGames Kansas City Legacy Open

Unfortunately, SCG does only Legacy and Standard Opens, so checking out the biggest finishes for Modern and Vintage is harder, as there are fewer big tournaments for them (and they frequently only publish the top 8 rather than the top 16). Still, there are some. For example, here is the Top 8 at the Grand Prix Columbus, which was a Modern format.

Vintage tournaments--big ones, anyway--are pretty rare, but there are a few. Here's the Top 8 at the most recent Vintage Championship at GenCon.

The latter two, regrettably, only list the top 8 rather than top 16, so you can't see quite as many of the top decks, but you can still take a look.

You can take a look at those decks and see what tournament-calibur decks are like in the various constructed formats.

[Zavoniki]

"Not that great for the most part"? Its ability is astounding. For just two mana--one of which can be any color--and at Instant speed, flashback on any Instant or Sorcery in your graveyard with a 2/1 on top of that. And no other card does this.

And what's this about how you only get a critical mass of cheap instants in Legacy and Vintage? What about Ponder, Vapor Snag, Gut Shot, Mutagenic Growth, Mana Leak, Gitaxian Probe, and Thought Scour, all Standard legal? And all playable in Blue? (we're not even getting into the Instants and Sorceries that can be used if you go into another color)

No no other card does this. And it is a phenomenal value card. But Magic isn't a game about value cards. Its about killing your opponent, either through aggressive creatures, a game ending bomb, or locking them out of the game. Snapcaster Mage isn't any of those things. Also Ponder and Gitaxian Probe are not instants, which means you lose the flash part of Snapcaster Mage, which makes it just a 2/1 for 2 which is very below the curve for acceptable creatures in standard. Gut Shot and Mutagenic growth are terrible to flash back(and Mutagenic Growth doesn't really see play outside of Infect). I wouldn't call Thought Scour a quality card anywhere outside of Modern Storm decks, and if you have 4 mana in Delver you should probably just be casting Restoration Angel, Talrand, or Hero of Bladehold.

Just because Snapcaster Mage isn't usually the thing that actually comes over and kills someone doesn't mean it's not the best card in the deck.

Except its not the best card in the deck. Delver is. Followed by Geist. Turn 1 Delver into a turn 3 Geist will straight up kill quite a few draws out of most standard decks. Add in a few Mana Leaks and Vapor Snags and thats game. Snapcaster Mage does help there. I'm not saying it not a good a card, because it is. But its a value card(probably the best value card ever printed thats not Bob). And there are way to many situations where if all you have is Snapcaster Mage flashing back something and they have Titan or a Planeswalker you are so far behind that its nearly impossible to get back in. Yes if you have a flipped Delver or a Geist out you can flashback Vapor Snag or Mana Leak and be ok, but that's not always the case(especially seeing as you need a Snag or a Mana Leak in the yard). Its comparable(well the best version of really) to Blade Splicer and Elvish Visionary.

You're underrating the card to a spectacular degree.Ball Lightning...a good card? The card is okay, but outside of straight burn is mediocre, and even in straight burn (when it actually plays it) it seems to be one of the most cuttable cards in the deck.

I'm going to guess you haven't played much Red Deck Wins(especially the version that existed in the Alara-Zendikar standard). That deck did fairly well and it had to compete with JUND and JACE. Part of that lay with the fact that you had Hellspark Elemental, Hell's Thunder, and Ball Lightning as what were essentially very efficient burn Spells. 6 damage for 3 mana is a very good deal. Geist is that except so much better.

You're putting Gavony Township and Moorland Haunt ahead of Snapcaster Mage? I could even kinda see Kessig Wolf Run even if I strongly disagree, but seriously, Gavony Township and Moorland Haunt?

I, for one, would put Delver of Secrets and Snapcaster Mage as #1 and #2. I'm not sure which one I would put into which slot...kind of depends on how you go about qualifying it...but there is no way a card as good as Snapcaster Mage should be behind Gavony Township.

Moorland Haunt might be a bit of a stretch but I do prefer its effect of turning everything that dies on your side(slowly) into a 1/1 spirit to Snapcaster Mage. And yes Gavony Township is better than Snapcaster Mage(in standard) and its not close. Gavony Township turns anything you play into a threat that your opponent has to remove or else they will slowly die, AND most importantly, scales up for every creature you play AND every turn you get. In anything even approaching a board stall Gavony Township is absurd, and its still fine if your not massively behind. Snapcaster Mage is about as good if your behind, terrible if your in a stall(Vapor Snagging a creature or casting Ponder is not going to get you out of that and neither is a 2/1), and only really good when your ahead. While Delver is very good at staying ahead, there are so many bomb cards people can play that equalize things that if your answer is 4 Leaks, 4 Snags, and 4 Snapcaster's, I'd rather be on the bomb side, especially when those bombs can be things like Restoration Angel, Gavony Township, or Huntmaster of the Fells, not just things like Titans, Consecrated Sphinx, or Elesh-Norn.

Really, this "Flames of the Blood Hand" comparison seems pretty weak to me.Why isn't it Blue and White? Hexproof is Blue, and its token ability was done already by cards like Hero of Bladehold. I don't see any other colors I would put it in.

Its abilities may be U/W but its effect is very very red. Also Hero of Bladeholds tokens don't disappear at the end of the turn.

As for its cost, I'd agree if it wasn't legendary, but as it is, I think it's a fair price.

Except its Legendaryness isn't that much of a factor because its a Ball Lightning. Its purpose is to attack, get in damage, then die. If its buffed then having another in hand means you have a safety net in case it dies.

Because clearly the token can't be blocked or removed...

That requires expending a card. Imagine if Geist traded its 4/4 ability for "Whenever Geist of Saint Traft attacks, target opponent discards a non-land card or sacrifces a creature". That'd be just as absurd a card as Geist is.

[Sith_Happens]

After what Sith Happens said though, even if I don't take it to a tournament I still want to make the deck better, I've got a couple of myrs hanging around I could throw in. Heading off to college soon so maybe there I'll find a way to avoid playing the same 6 people over and over.

First off, I counted up your mana curve, which is currently as follows:

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CMC: # of cards (# of creatures)
1: 5 (1)
2: 9 (9)
3: 10 (6)
4: 6 (4)
5: 2 (1)
6: 2 (2)
7: 2 (2)
8: 2 (2)

...Which is actually much better than it looked just eyeballing it. Don't I feel stupid.

Now, I am still worried that you don't have a lot of ways to stop an early-game onslaught of creatures or other competent aggro strategy. There are two fronts on which to remedy that:
1. More Ethersworn Canonists. It's much harder for your opponent to outpace you when they only get one spell per turn.
2. More quickly getting to the part of the game where it doesn't matter what they've been doing for the first few turns, because now you're beating their face in with a bunch of fatties. That means a fourth Etherium Sculptor plus four Vedalken Engineers. Mana costs, what mana costs?

As for other tweaks, more Stoic Rebuttals and Turn Asides will help keep your opponent from messing with your sphinxes and other fun things, while Dispatch will take care of their creatures. Speaking of creatures, your first priority should be getting more Masters of Etherium. That way the beating starts early and keeps going until sphinx time.

Of course, all of the above cards rely on you having a bunch of artifacts ASAP. You said you can replace twelve of your basic lands with artifact lands? That should more than suffice.

[Zavoniki]

Of course, all of the above cards rely on you having a bunch of artifacts ASAP. You said you can replace twelve of your basic lands with artifact lands? That should more than suffice.

Fair warning, aside from Darksteel Citadel all the artifact lands are banned in sanctioned Modern tournaments. Possible replacements are Inkmoth Nexus and Blinkmoth Nexus. You should probably be able to pick up Inkmoths for fairly cheap in about a month or so(if not already) when all the Standard players start selling/trading them off due to the rotation. Not sure what Blinkmoth's go for/trade for however.

[Sith_Happens]

Fair warning, aside from Darksteel Citadel all the artifact lands are banned in sanctioned Modern tournaments.

If I read it correctly, he changed his mind about wanting to play the deck in tournaments. So artifact lands are a go.

[KillItWithFire]

First off, I counted up your mana curve, which is currently as follows:

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CMC: # of cards (# of creatures)
1: 5 (1)
2: 9 (9)
3: 10 (6)
4: 6 (4)
5: 2 (1)
6: 2 (2)
7: 2 (2)
8: 2 (2)

...Which is actually much better than it looked just eyeballing it. Don't I feel stupid.

Now, I am still worried that you don't have a lot of ways to stop an early-game onslaught of creatures or other competent aggro strategy. There are two fronts on which to remedy that:
1. More Ethersworn Canonists. It's much harder for your opponent to outpace you when they only get one spell per turn.
2. More quickly getting to the part of the game where it doesn't matter what they've been doing for the first few turns, because now you're beating their face in with a bunch of fatties. That means a fourth Etherium Sculptor plus four Vedalken Engineers. Mana costs, what mana costs?

As for other tweaks, more Stoic Rebuttals and Turn Asides will help keep your opponent from messing with your sphinxes and other fun things, while Dispatch will take care of their creatures. Speaking of creatures, your first priority should be getting more Masters of Etherium. That way the beating starts early and keeps going until sphinx time.

Of course, all of the above cards rely on you having a bunch of artifacts ASAP. You said you can replace twelve of your basic lands with artifact lands? That should more than suffice.

Yeah the fourth sculptor is definitely gonna happen the more I think about it. The Canonist however runs into the same problem my transmuter does. If I owned more of them they would be in the deck. Master of Etherium runs into the same problem. More counter-spells hmm? I'll be honest I've found it much easier with this deck to simply not care when things go to the grave since it's easy to bring them back. I'll have to look and see if I have more stoic rebuttals as for me that almost always ends up being a cancel that just costs UU.

As for the dispatch, I just got a few in a pack yesterday so I think my deck is due into the workshop tonight. The Engineer looks nice I had seen him before, a significant part of me wishes he was an artifact, and also that I owned any of him.

Good thinking all of it though. Now that I look back the most common deck I lose to with this guy is my dad's red/black burn deck.

[Lord Seth]

No no other card does this. And it is a phenomenal value card. But Magic isn't a game about value cards. Its about killing your opponent, either through aggressive creatures, a game ending bomb, or locking them out of the game. Snapcaster Mage isn't any of those things.

You know what else isn't any of those things? Black Lotus, Demonic Tutor, any of the original Moxen, Time Walk, Ancestral Recall, Bazaar of Baghdad, Necropotence, Yawgmoth's Will, Yawgmoth's Bargain, Fastbond, Mana Crypt, Sol Ring, Tolarian Academy, Vampiric Tutor, and a lot more. By your logic, these are not as good as Geist of Saint Traft.

Also Ponder and Gitaxian Probe are not instants, which means you lose the flash part of Snapcaster Mage, which makes it just a 2/1 for 2 which is very below the curve for acceptable creatures in standard.

Uh...no. No it doesn't. Even if you choose to not flashback anything, it still has flash. You can still play it during your opponent's turn even if you don't flashback anything, so you in such circumstances have a 2/1 for 2 with flash, which, while not spectacular, is still decent and better than you claim. If you're referring to the fact that if you want to flashback a Ponder the Snapcaster Mage's flash doesn't matter...you're still getting the ability to flash it back for 2 mana while getting a 2/1.

In other words, even in the WORST circumstances for it, you still have a decent card.

Gut Shot and Mutagenic growth are terrible to flash back

Actually, they're great to flash back because they cost zero mana to do so.

(and Mutagenic Growth doesn't really see play outside of Infect).

Except for the UW Delver decks that play it.

I wouldn't call Thought Scour a quality card anywhere outside of Modern Storm decks,

Is that why every Delver deck in the Star City Games Kansas City Standard Open Top 16 used at least two copies?

I also looked at the top 8 decks are in for the current SCG Standard Open (Denver), and...what do you know, every single Delver deck in that top 8 had 4 Thought Scours. Also, Thought Scour is seeing increased play in Legacy in Canadian Threshold decks, with several top 8 finishes playing them.

Claiming that it's only good in Modern Storm decks just flies in the face of objective evidence.

Moorland Haunt might be a bit of a stretch but I do prefer its effect of turning everything that dies on your side(slowly) into a 1/1 spirit to Snapcaster Mage. And yes Gavony Township is better than Snapcaster Mage(in standard) and its not close.

Now wait just a minute. You didn't say best in standard. You said best with no qualification. And the best card must be judged in more than just one format. Snapcaster Mage is played frequently in every single format it's legal in. Gavony Township is not. Trying to claim that Gavony Township is a better card than Snapcaster Mage is utterly absurd because Snapcaster Mage has had an effect on every format it's legal in (even Vintage!) whereas Gavony Township...not so much.

Though even limiting ourselves to Standard I'm dubious of your claim. It is a good card. But I don't see it as as good as Snapcaster Mage.

Gavony Township turns anything you play into a threat that your opponent has to remove or else they will slowly die, AND most importantly, scales up for every creature you play AND every turn you get.

And occurs (relatively) late in the game. Honestly, I haven't seen Gavony Township ever make that big a difference in a match that I've played it. It either comes online too late to save the person using it, comes online but really just as a "win more" card, or it's a card that kind of helps but not to a big extent.

In anything even approaching a board stall Gavony Township is absurd, and its still fine if your not massively behind. Snapcaster Mage is about as good if your behind, terrible if your in a stall(Vapor Snagging a creature or casting Ponder is not going to get you out of that and neither is a 2/1),

Depends on what you uncover with that Ponder. You can indeed get stuff that will change the game.

and only really good when your ahead.

No, it's really good in those other cases also. Gavony Township is a little better in a stalled board, but Snapcaster Mage overall seems a lot better.

That requires expending a card. Imagine if Geist traded its 4/4 ability for "Whenever Geist of Saint Traft attacks, target opponent discards a non-land card or sacrifces a creature". That'd be just as absurd a card as Geist is.

That'd be better than Geist is.

[Mystic Muse]

Sort of looking forward to, and dreading, Return to Ravnica.

Dreading, because I like my current deck, but I'll only be able to go to FNM with it 3 more times.

Also, I had a weird Dream last night. Instead of Urabrask, the Hidden giving all creatures you control just haste, he also gave all creatures you control +4/+4, and everybody besides me thought he sucked.

[Rama]

Hey all,

I haven't played Magic since the long-ago days of 4th edition; but a couple of friends recently got me back into it via MTGO. Now I need a little help, and I'm hoping y'all will be so kind :p

The problem I find is, even in casual games, I keep running into people who have obviously spent 100+ dollars on cards and I flat-out have no chance with the intro cards I started with. I'm willing to spend a little, but would like to go no higher than @ $5 on putting a deck together from individual card purchases. I know that won't be a comparable offering, but I'd like to have a chance at least. If that is doable, what would y'all recommend? Or am I just wasting my time and should I get out while I have my sanity - and wallet - intact?

Thanks

[Science Officer]

Hey all,

I haven't played Magic since the long-ago days of 4th edition; but a couple of friends recently got me back into it via MTGO. Now I need a little help, and I'm hoping y'all will be so kind :p

The problem I find is, even in casual games, I keep running into people who have obviously spent 100+ dollars on cards and I flat-out have no chance with the intro cards I started with. I'm willing to spend a little, but would like to go no higher than @ $5 on putting a deck together from individual card purchases. I know that won't be a comparable offering, but I'd like to have a chance at least. If that is doable, what would y'all recommend? Or am I just wasting my time and should I get out while I have my sanity - and wallet - intact?

Thanks

The format/keyword you're looking for is "Pauper". I wish I had some resources for you, but what you want to do is probably doable.

[Lord Seth]

Sort of looking forward to, and dreading, Return to Ravnica.

Dreading, because I like my current deck, but I'll only be able to go to FNM with it 3 more times.

What I'm really interested in Return to Ravnica is (1) if they will reprint the shocklands and/or Dark Confidant and (2) if they do, how it would actually affect the market price of them. This is really the first time--assuming they do reprint them--I can think of that a card that was worth a reasonable amount was out of print for a while and then was reprinted in a Standard set. The closest thing I can think of is Reflecting Pool, whose price went up considerably while it was reprinted, though prior to the reprinting I believe it was worth less than the shocklands currently are.

Also, I had a weird Dream last night. Instead of Urabrask, the Hidden giving all creatures you control just haste, he also gave all creatures you control +4/+4, and everybody besides me thought he sucked.

Did you draw comparisons to Wolfir Silverheart, pointing out that that card is considered decent, and your dream version of Urabrask is that except it applies to every creature and weakens your opponents?

[Fable Wright]

What I'm really interested in Return to Ravnica is (1) if they will reprint the shocklands and/or Dark Confidant and (2) if they do, how it would actually affect the market price of them. This is really the first time--assuming they do reprint them--I can think of that a card that was worth a reasonable amount was out of print for a while and then was reprinted in a Standard set. The closest thing I can think of is Reflecting Pool, whose price went up considerably while it was reprinted, though prior to the reprinting I believe it was worth less than the shocklands currently are.

Hm... I don't think Bob is going to be reprinted in Return to Ravnica. Not while low-curve high tempo resilient decks exist that are a mainstay in the format. Even with Mana Leak leaving, I can see that still being one of the best decks in Standard. And that's without Bob, the perfect addition to the deck.

Besides, Bob isn't really a mainstay of Modern. He's run in just a few decks, being Melira Pod, Jund, and maybe Life from the Loam, and probably isn't too high on the must reprint list, what with Affinity, U/R Combo, and RUG Delver being most of the major players in Modern.

Shocklands are going to spike in price as the demand for them suddenly skyrockets, and then lower afterwards. If they aren't reprinted, and other dual land type cards are reprinted, the prices are probably just going to go down.

[Mystic Muse]

Did you draw comparisons to Wolfir Silverheart, pointing out that that card is considered decent, and your dream version of Urabrask is that except it applies to every creature and weakens your opponents?

Nah. I was too shocked by the idea that everybody besides me thought giving all your creatures haste and +4/+4 for 5 mana with a then 9/9 body sucked.

EDIT: Got some cool deals at Gencon. 1 Darksteel forge and 2 Mox Opals for $4 each, an Ulamog the Infinite Gyre for $8 (Re-sold for $15) and 4 Fetid Heath's for $6 each. The only flaw with the Opals is the previous owner decided to be a moron and write on the back of them. Luckily, I always use sleeves on all my decks, so it's irrelevant, and the cards are mox Opals are otherwise in very nice condition.

[Zombimode]

Check My Combo Time

Pieces:
Endless Whispers
Heartless Summoning (can be substituted for other cards that reduce the toughness of your creatures)
Bronze Bombshell

Endless Whispers and Heartless Summoning on the field.
Cast Bronze Bombshell. It well enter the field and then dies for having 0 toughness. Endless Whispers triggers, putting the Bombshell under your opponents control. Bombshell own ability triggers and it goes boom. Endless Whispers triggers and you got it back and it dies again for having 0 toughness triggering Endless (truly) Whispers again...

Goes just as well in multiplayer, but not in team games.

Does it work or did I miss anything?

[Fable Wright]

Well, it's vulnerable to disruption, at least. It takes several turns for the combo to finish off an opponent, as Endless Whispers trades off control at the beginning of the next end step. In a one-on-one, it makes your opponent take 7 damage at the beginning of each end step. In a multiplayer game, it becomes a game of not pissing off the person who last received the bombshell while frantically searching for that Disenchant. Either way, I approve of this combo.

[Zombimode]

It takes several turns for the combo to finish off an opponent, as Endless Whispers trades off control at the beginning of the next end step.

Ah, reading is tech. Missed that line.

Well, all that changes is that this combo is not something to build a deck around, but simply one of many tricks of an Endless Whispers deck. The card alone looks like it can shake up a multiplayer game by itself

[Fable Wright]

Ah, reading is tech. Missed that line.

Well, all that changes is that this combo is not something to build a deck around, but simply one of many tricks of an Endless Whispers deck. The card alone looks like it can shake up a multiplayer game by itself

Try Gravepact+Noncreature Sac outlet, such as Goblin Bombardment, Grafted Wargear, or Mortarpod. Sacrifice a creature (Bombshell/token), redistribute creatures!

Also, Homeward Path. Sure, getting your (usually inferior, TBH) creatures back isn't something to look forward to, but it is a combat trick on par with Maze of Ith. As in, when someone attacks you with a creature they don't own (Funny how often Endless Whispers causes that, eh?), you can Homeward Path to force them to give it back to its owner, while getting back your blockers. And out of combat, it also makes a good bargaining piece.

Finally, I don't have to tell you how incredibly, incredibly silly Fleshbag Marauder is with Endless Whispers. Getting it to come back every turn and reassign creatures just makes it silly with one copy. Add in a few more, and then shenanigans really start rolling. Crypt Champion is something else to consider, to make sure cards that already died come back to join the party...

I now feel the urge to make this deck. It just seems so incredibly silly...

[Androgeus]

Edit:I'm slow =( also endless whispers + confusion in the ranks, that would be some pretty good chaos.

Does it work or did I miss anything?

It "works" but is really slow. Endless Whispers doesn't put the creature in to play until the beginning of the next end step.
So with Endless Whispers and Heartless Summoning already in play:

1. Cast Bronze Bombshell
2. it dies, triggering its Endless Whispers ability making you choose the opponent that will gain control of the Bombshell.
3. In the next end step Bombshell comes back under the opponent's control and then promptly dies, triggering its Endless Whispers ability making your opponent choose someone (you in a two player game) to gain control of the Bombshell during the next end step.
4. So in the end step of the next turn Bombshell comes back. If it's under your control, go to 2, if it's under an opponent’s control go to 3 ( ignoring the in the next end step)

In other news some Ravnica cards have been revealed on the main site.

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I really like Overload. The charm is also really awesome.

[Fable Wright]

Spoilers!

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Waitwaitwait... Life from the Loam reprint, Jarad, who's going to be a player in this upcoming Standard, Isochron Scepter, and Eternal Witness in the same box? For $20? I must be dreaming...

Also, new Charm cycle, awesome revamped Guildmages, a mechanic worthy of the Izzet, and a CMC 3 3/3 Hasty Zombie? I am looking forward to Return to Ravnica!

[raymundo]

The problem I find is, even in casual games, I keep running into people who have obviously spent 100+ dollars on cards and I flat-out have no chance with the intro cards I started with. I'm willing to spend a little, but would like to go no higher than @ $5 on putting a deck together from individual card purchases. I know that won't be a comparable offering, but I'd like to have a chance at least. If that is doable, what would y'all recommend? Or am I just wasting my time and should I get out while I have my sanity - and wallet - intact?Thanks

That sounds like a nice challenge. Are you playing certain formats, or just casually with any cards one might have? And what are you buddies killing you with? If it's a second-turn killer combo, you're probably screwed, unless you find a way to disrupt it. This depends on the combo. But as 100$+ isn't _that_ much in regards to killer-combos, you will probaby be fine.

5$ is kinda tight, but I could see an aggressive mono-green ramp deck working (Look for creatures with Green-only mana cost, they're often very efficient: Leatherback Baloth, Garruk's Companion, Strangleroot Geist. They can be pretty brutal in casual games). Otherwise, a variant of Red Deck Wins - aggressive red creatures, very efficient burn spells - could win you some games. You should check which cards you already have and then determine how to improve upon them. Wee Dragonauts, Kiln Fiend, Chandra's Spitfire can be surprisingly effective in ending games on the lower spectrum of skill play. Charmbreaker Devils too, if your games tend to run long. Quest for Pure Flame can be amazing if you draw it early. Dangerous Wager, Reforge the Soul will help you re-fuel - but take care, if you don't finish the game after a Reforge the Soul, your opponent probably will.

Spoilers!

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Waitwaitwait... Life from the Loam reprint, Jarad, who's going to be a player in this upcoming Standard, Isochron Scepter, and Eternal Witness in the same box? For $20? I must be dreaming...

Also, new Charm cycle, awesome revamped Guildmages, a mechanic worthy of the Izzet, and a CMC 3 3/3 Hasty Zombie? I am looking forward to Return to Ravnica!

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These cards look fantastic. They're probably above-average in power and awesomeness, because they're the first ones spoiled - but still. I was hoping my U/R Delver deck might get some love in RtR and it most likely will, that Charm is already pure awesomeness - at instant speed, nonetheless.

That Izzet mechanic looks hilarious.. Has there ever been a mechanic that feelt so.. "meta"?

[Lord Seth]

Besides, Bob isn't really a mainstay of Modern.

Unless I'm overlooking something, Dark Confidant is the second most expensive card in the format after Tarmogoyf.

[Penguinizer]

Bob is expensive because of Vintage and Legacy though, it's not as big in Modern as there.

[Lord Seth]

Bob is expensive because of Vintage and Legacy though, it's not as big in Modern as there.

Not really. Vintage isn't very popular so I doubt it's having that big an effect on prices (outside of cards printed in very limited quantities, i.e. stuff from the early sets), and as to your claim he's more popular in Legacy...how? The guy really doesn't see that much Legacy play. He definitely seems more of a thing in Modern than in Legacy.

But if you really want proof that it's Modern, feast your eyes on this chart, where it shows how Dark Confidant's price jumped up dramatically in the middle of 2011. Which is, interestingly, exactly when Modern emerged as a format.