Magic: The Gathering Thread XIV: Instant Annoying, Just Add Hexproof

[IthilanorStPete]

Some guys at my meta play junk tokens, it works pretty well
(Intangible virtue, call of the conclave, selesnya charm, lingering souls, midnight haunting, trostani, thragtusk) That kind of stuff.

Junk Tokens has actually seen some play in Standard lately. There weren't any in the top 8 at GP Auckland this weekend, but I saw some lists from the LCQs here that have a token element.

[Sith_Happens]

Junk Tokens has actually seen some play in Standard lately. There weren't any in the top 8 at GP Auckland this weekend, but I saw some lists from the LCQs here that have a token element.

Hm, it appears that out of the top nine, nine are either Zombies or have Thragtusk.

[IthilanorStPete]

Hm, it appears that out of the top nine, nine are either Zombies or have Thragtusk.

Yeah, welcome to the Thragtusk format. For tokens, I'm looking mainly at Deck #6 - plenty of tokens there.

[Togath]

How strong is the tenth deck down?

[IthilanorStPete]

How strong is the tenth deck down?

That looks like it was from Sealed/Draft, not Standard. I don't know how good of a Limited deck is, and it's not applicable for Standard.

[Sith_Happens]

Yeah, welcome to the Thragtusk format.

Now I wonder what sorts of obvious, heavy-handed hate cards for it they'll be spamming at us in the next block...

[IthilanorStPete]

Now I wonder what sorts of obvious, heavy-handed hate cards for it they'll be spamming at us in the next block...

I doubt we'll see those unless Thragtusk continues to dominate post-Gatecrash and post-"Sinker".

[Squark]

I don't think Thragtusk is going to make it to the next block- At least, I hope Wizards is smart enough to keep it out of 2014. That being said, I wouldn't be surprised to see some Thragtusk hate in the next two sets- Some sort of anti-life gain effect like Unstable Footing, or a way to counteract the token. Because right now, the only answer to Thragtusk is to counter it.

[IthilanorStPete]

I don't think Thragtusk is going to make it to the next block- At least, I hope Wizards is smart enough to keep it out of 2014. That being said, I wouldn't be surprised to see some Thragtusk hate in the next two sets- Some sort of anti-life gain effect like Unstable Footing, or a way to counteract the token. Because right now, the only answer to Thragtusk is to counter it.

There's also Tamiyo, Martial Law, pre-empting it with Slaughter Games, just racing it...I'm not saying that it's not dominant, but there are ways.

[Litewarior]

New card:

Slumber Dodecahedron {4}
Artifact

Triggered abilities of creatures cannot be triggered.

[Togath]

That looks like it was from Sealed/Draft, not Standard. I don't know how good of a Limited deck is, and it's not applicable for Standard.

Ah, darn. The other decks could be useful to pull ideas from though, correct?
One thing they made me wonder about were 3 colour decks(mainly B/G/R or U/G/W), are they viable in standard format? Also, what would be good effects to look out for on a card? Unblockable, vigilance, flying, hexproof are the main standard abilities to keep an eye out for, aye?

[Squark]

There's also Tamiyo, Martial Law, pre-empting it with Slaughter Games, just racing it...I'm not saying that it's not dominant, but there are ways.

Of those, martial law and Tamiyo are both only practical in control decks (which already run Counterspells), while Slaughter Games has the same issues its predecessors have; Generally speaking, unless you're lucky enough to nab a Thragtusk while its in their hand, it doesn't affect the game state at all.

[IthilanorStPete]

Ah, darn. The other decks could be useful to pull ideas from though, correct?

Sure. Also look at the top 8 from GP Auckland and decks mentioned in the Perilous Research column on dailymtg.com.

One thing they made me wonder about were 3 colour decks(mainly B/G/R or U/G/W), are they viable in standard format?

Very; a lot of the biggest decks are three colors, usually a two-color core splashing a third. UWR aggro/control, GWb(r) Junk Rites, UWr Miracles, Jund (BGR) midrange, Bant (WUG) control/ramp in various configurations.

Also, what would be good effects to look out for on a card? Unblockable, vigilance, flying, hexproof are the main standard abilities to keep an eye out for, aye?

It really comes down to evaluating things card-by-card. Hexproof's very good (see: Geist of St. Traft), but that doesn't mean Rubbleback Rhino is good.

EDIT:

Of those, martial law and Tamiyo are both only practical in control decks (which already run Counterspells), while Slaughter Games has the same issues its predecessors have; Generally speaking, unless you're lucky enough to nab a Thragtusk while its in their hand, it doesn't affect the game state at all.

Both very true, unfortunately. I imagine UWR aggro-control matches up pretty well against Thragtusk, between its counterspells and being able to race it with Thundermaw Hellkite.

[Togath]

Are "Dark Ascension" and "Avacyn Restored" usable in standard still?, A lot of decks I've seen so far have a card or two from them, but only "Innistrad" is listed on the allowed sets list, does it just mean the release block rather then the specific set?
I think I'll probably aim for a B/G/R deck for now(since I have more, and better cards for it at the moment), but wanted to find out if I could use cards from those two sets as well.

[IthilanorStPete]

Are "Dark Ascension" and "Avacyn Restored" usable in standard still?, A lot of decks I've seen so far have a card or two from them, but only "Innistrad" is listed on the allowed sets list, does it just mean the release block rather then the specific set?

Yes, they're legal, as they're part of the Innistrad block. (technically the Innistrad-Avacyn Restored block, since AVR was a large set) Where did you see only Innistrad listed on the allowed sets list?

[Togath]

Yes, they're legal, as they're part of the Innistrad block. (technically the Innistrad-Avacyn Restored block, since AVR was a large set) Where did you see only Innistrad listed on the allowed sets list?

On a card search thing I found a few days ago(lost track of the wotc thing), though looking at the rules page now, I'm not sure how I missed that i could use the whole block, I think I may just have been really tired when I last took a look.
Any good starter/theme/event decks for that block for boosting/getting started a B/G/R deck?
Also, what is a booster draft?

[Sith_Happens]

New card:

Slumber Dodecahedron {4}
Artifact

Triggered abilities of creatures cannot be triggered.

On one hand I'd say that card is stupid and would never actually happen, but we've already had Grafdigger's Cage()...

[Ninjaman]

I don't think Thragtusk is going to make it to the next block- At least, I hope Wizards is smart enough to keep it out of 2014. That being said, I wouldn't be surprised to see some Thragtusk hate in the next two sets- Some sort of anti-life gain effect like Unstable Footing, or a way to counteract the token. Because right now, the only answer to Thragtusk is to counter it.

And appetite for brains.

[Lea Plath]

On one hand I'd say that card is stupid and would never actually happen, but we've already had Grafdigger's Cage()...

And how played was Grafdigger's cage? :P

I'm hoping a flame of the bloodhand reprint personally.

[Sith_Happens]

And how played was Grafdigger's cage? :P

It's not about how played it was, it's about how it's by far the most blatant and heavy-handed hate card I've ever seen.

[Togath]

Isn't it mostly just an anti black or B/G artifact?(A lot of cards for black or B/G in both Innistrad and RtR have effects in the graveyard, or can be summoned from it, so it seems like more a generic anti colour card)

[Squark]

It's not about how played it was, it's about how it's by far the most blatant and heavy-handed hate card I've ever seen.

Gaze upon Teferi's Response, then and see an even more blatant hate card!


(It was an answer to Rishadan Port, if you're wondering)

[IthilanorStPete]

It's not about how played it was, it's about how it's by far the most blatant and heavy-handed hate card I've ever seen.

Heh...there are so many worse things. Tsabo's Decree, from Invasion to use against the Rebels decks from Masque block; Teferi's Response, to deal with Rishadan Port; and of course old color hosers like Choke and Light of Day.

[Togath]

Ok, I think I have a deck set up for the local gaming night I was planning to attend in a few days. How does this look for a deck?, I don't have many cards yet, so I'm using a lot of unique ones, but it seems like it might be semi decent. It's meant to be a B/G/R deck(I've given up on the mono white or W/U deck for now, since I don’t have enough cards for it), though I am worried about not having enough red mana generators.

Creatures:

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Trestle Troll x1
Corpsejack Menace x1
Dreg Mangler x1
Korozda Guildmage x1
Crimson Muckwader x1
Gore-House Chainwalker x2
Rakdos Cackler x1
Rakdos Shred-Freak x1
Grim Roustabout x2
Slitherhead x2
Veilborn Ghoul x1
Dark Revenant x1
Dead Reveler x1
Villagers of Estwald/Howlpack of Estwald x1
Ambush Viper x1
Gatecreeper Vine x2
Gobbling Ooze x1
Archweaver x1
Deadbridge Goliath x1
Wild Beastmaster x1
Moldgraf Monstrosity x1

Artifacts:

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Golgari Keyrune x1
Rakdos Keyrune x1

Non-Creature Spells:

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Rakdos's Return x1
Golgari Charm x1
Treasured Find x1
Rites of Reaping x1
Auger Spree x1
Essence Drain x1
Deviant Glee x1
Disentomb x1
Wit's End x1
Ghoulcaller's Chant x1
Explosive Impact x1
Seek the Horizon x1
Rancor x1
Chorus of Might x1
Spidery Grasp x1

Lands:

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Izzet Guildgate x2
Rakdos Guildgate x1
Golgari Guildgate x1
Forest x6
Swamp x6
Mountain x2

A few cards I had pondered adding/switching out other cards for are;
Codex Shredder(forcing my opponent to discard the top card of his library each turn seems decent for 1 mana)
Kitesail(since not many black, green or red creatures have flying naturally)
Phyrexian Hulk(not 100% sure about this one)
Transguild Promenade(it costs a mana, but every turn after it can be used for any type, and I could add up to three)

[tgva8889]

I really want to play decks that have hilarious answers to Thragtusk. "Oh, I guess I'll Traitorous Blood that, attack you, then Cloudshift it." "Oh, I guess I'll play an Evil Twin of that Thragtusk." When people start overloading on that kind of card, it's totally worth it to run crazy things like Evil Twin.

[Fable Wright]

Ok, I think I have a deck set up for the local gaming night I was planning to attend in a few days. How does this look for a deck?, I don't have many cards yet, so I'm using a lot of unique ones, but it seems like it might be semi decent. It's meant to be a B/G/R deck(I've given up on the mono white or W/U deck for now, since I don’t have enough cards for it), though I am worried about not having enough red mana generators.

It feels schizophrenic and unfocused, to be honest. That comes hand in hand with a limited card pool, though, but in all honesty, that probably won't win any games in Constructed events. One thing you might consider doing, at least before you have a large enough card pool to make more focused decks, is play in Limited events, where you pay for admission, are given packs to make a deck with, and play a 3-4 round tournament with those. They're great for learning more about how the game works, you don't play against people who spent tons of money on their deck, and it's easier to make changes to improve your deck, as people can see the cards that you have available to build your deck out of and the deck you're working with.

[Squark]

Mind you, drafting has its own set of skills to learn, but it's still a good idea. I'd especially reccomend attending the pre-release event for Gatecrash, as sealed is a bit easier on newbies, since you only need to focus on card evaluation, not reading signals.

[Togath]

It feels schizophrenic and unfocused, to be honest. That comes hand in hand with a limited card pool, though, but in all honesty, that probably won't win any games in Constructed events. One thing you might consider doing, at least before you have a large enough card pool to make more focused decks, is play in Limited events, where you pay for admission, are given packs to make a deck with, and play a 3-4 round tournament with those. They're great for learning more about how the game works, you don't play against people who spent tons of money on their deck, and it's easier to make changes to improve your deck, as people can see the cards that you have available to build your deck out of and the deck you're working with.

I'll probably look into limited events then, since it'll probably take a while to build my deck up. Though if I remember right the gaming shop does sell individual cards, so I might be able to find a few there.
Good cards to look out for would probably be(not exactly a deck list, more me trying to figure out what creatures fit a B/G/R deck);

Rakdos Cackler or Tormented Soul or Diregraf Ghoul as a strong 1 cmc creature
Dark Revenant?(would grave crawler be better?)
Maybe some of the were wolves(G/R) and vampires(B/R) from the Innistrad block?
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord?(seems pretty strong)
maybe Rakdos, Lord of Riots?(would he be better in a B/R deck?) as well or in place of it
Deathrite Shaman
Korozda Guildmage?
Lotleth Troll?(since it builds up fast, and can get cards with good graveyard effects in it)
Vraska the Unseen?(since it's a B/G planeswalker, and has a potent effect)
or Garruk, Primal Hunter, since he can swarm the field with 3/3 tokens fairly easily
Maybe Knight of infamy as a sideboard card
Would Shimian Specter be useful?
Thragtusk of course, since it's very strong, though that might make it harder to find.
Dreg Mangler

I don't really have many guesses for which non-creature spells to go for, though Rakdos's Return looks pretty powerful(x+2 cmc and deal x damage to a player, and forces them to discard x cards), as do Rancor and Deviant Glee

Any other cards to look out for?(and are any of the ones on the list significantly sub optimal?)

[Meta]

I really want to play decks that have hilarious answers to Thragtusk. "Oh, I guess I'll Traitorous Blood that, attack you, then Cloudshift it." "Oh, I guess I'll play an Evil Twin of that Thragtusk." When people start overloading on that kind of card, it's totally worth it to run crazy things like Evil Twin.

I think it was Caleb Durwald who did rather well with an Izzet control deck and he said something like Essence Backlashing a Thragtusk was an achievement he went in wanting to accomplish (he did)

[Lea Plath]

Togath, BGR is Jund. i run Jund so I can help. what isthe goal of this deck?