Magic: The Gathering Thread XIV: Instant Annoying, Just Add Hexproof

[tgva8889]

Budget Control is just bad. All the best ways for a control deck to actually finish a game (which is necessary in a world of such powerful cards) are rare or rare-related, and all your ways to clear the board and stabilize are also rare. Your price point is just going to end up too high since all your cards probably average above $3. If you want to play Control, I suggest you be willing to pay for your hobby. If not, there are plenty of good decks with lots of play that cost minimal amounts of money and aren't "make your opponent dead as quickly as possible with no thoughts to continuing the game past turn 7" decks.

However, if you wish to become a better player, it might be worthwhile to play some decks you never would have otherwise played. I thought I wouldn't like Delver, but then I played it and it was highly enjoyable. I'm thinking I might try picking up a control deck if I can figure out what cards I need to pick up for it just to learn something new. Playing in the shoes of your enemy is a good way to learn. Every deck is different, and the mono-red of today may play very differently from the mono-red of the past simply because of the environment in which it exists.

Also, you can play a high-removal deck that isn't a control deck. In fact, various forms of Mono-Red Aggro have plenty of removal spells. They just all can also go straight to the face.

[Togath]

That reminds me; what are good colour/play styles counter mono red(focused on burn spells and midrange creatures), R/U(burn spells) or B/R(some burn spells, and aggro creatures) decks?, At least according a few people I talked to at the gameshop I visit, those are the most common types. After asking people about how to build a token focused/aggro deck, and researching cards, I'm probably going to aim for G/W, G/W/U, or B/G/W as my main deck, with at least some focus on tokens regardless of colour.

[The Extinguisher]

I still need to pick up for Lilliana of the Dark Relams. Five colour will be a thing, and I feel like she has a lot of power in the future, assuming black gets some strong tools.


On the topic of wanting to be a better magic player, learn to play aggro. I really enjoy it when aggro decks are on the top, because so many magic players are really bad at play aggro decks and especially bad at aggro mirrors and combat math.

[Togath]

Aye I was planning to aim for aggro for my decks, even with tokens, there is a midrange/aggro separation(such as the 6 cmc spell that summons two 3/3 centaurs, or the 8 cmc one that summons two 4/4 rhinos with trample, compared to much cheaper cmc cards such as seller of songbirds, doomed traveler, and lingering souls)

[tgva8889]

How large are the midrange creatures? G/W provides lots of powerful life gain options that also have sizeable creatures attached. Thragtusk and Centaur Healer go a long way, and Trostani is an absolute beating for the Red decks, blocking their creatures and giving you ridiculous life gain value on the rest of your team. And that's if you never tap Trostani to Populate anything ever.

[Mindfreak]

That reminds me; what are good colour/play styles counter mono red(focused on burn spells and midrange creatures), R/U(burn spells) or B/R(some burn spells, and aggro creatures) decks?, At least according a few people I talked to at the gameshop I visit, those are the most common types. After asking people about how to build a token focused/aggro deck, and researching cards, I'm probably going to aim for G/W, G/W/U, or B/G/W as my main deck, with at least some focus on tokens regardless of colour.

If you're going to make a token focused deck, B/G/W can be good, especially if you just put in a splash of black for Lingering Soul's flashback cost.

[Togath]

How large are the midrange creatures?

The midrange creatures for the G/W or the red ones? I haven't actually had a chance to play against many decks yet, but from what I heard, a lot of people locally like to use high-midrange creatures(for mono red, B/R uses mostly aggro creatures, and R/U uses mostly non creatures, and a few RtR R/U aggro cards), with high power/toughness, but few or no special abilities, which seems like a weakness I could exploit easily.
Also part of the reason I've started to become more interested in G/W was things such as centaur healer and thragtusk, and because many of the strongest decks currently have G/W elements.

If you're going to make a token focused deck, B/G/W can be good, especially if you just put in a splash of black for Lingering Soul's flashback cost.

Aye, that what the person I asked suggested, and that colour combo will get some decent support(hopefully anyway. From what I can tell, there should be at least a few B/W cards in gatecrash and dragon's maze) in gatecrash, making them mesh even better

[Lea Plath]

Guild gates are used in competative decks at the moment. They aren't as good as shocks/M13s BUT they are still dual lands, so newbies can use them.

If you want a control deck. Use gates/whatever you can afford. If you want a good control deck, be ready to splash out on the big stuff.

And Togath, yeah. GW is pretty well postioned at the moment. Wolfir Silverheart, Strangleroot Giest, Rancor help with aggro. Charm gives them a good match up versus midrange/control decks. Oblivion Ring helps remove stuff. Angel of Serenity is playable. 2 mana dorks and Farseek to help fixing. Thragtusk and Centaur are ideal as they let you get into the mid or late game in control decks or midrange, as well as being nice bodies to block with. But the cards you listed (the 6 mana/8 mana ones) aren't too great. Midrange wants to play the efficent higher quality creatures, like Angel of Serenity, Wolfir Silverheart, Thragtusk etc. Not vanilla tokens.

If you want help with match ups though, that is what a 15 card sideboard is for. If you have decided on a deck now, just drop me a PM and I can help you build a sideboard that should give you a chance versus your meta. OK?

Also. I'm thinking of doing a BUG midrange deck. I've got my playset of tombs. Gonna order a playset of breeding pools off SCG. Got hinterlands and woodlands and can get drowned etc. Any cards you suggest getting? So far, I'm thinking of using Corpsejack/Hydra, Thragtusk and Jarad.

[Giegue]

I'll probably just stick with a mono black control build, for now. It's primary plansewalker is by far the cheapest out of all the good walkers so getting 2-4 copies of Liliana of the Dark Realms is not that hard. The rest of the cards are fairly easy to get as well. I also prefer Black's control style to Blue's anyway, so that's not a big issue for me. Also, a big thank you to whoever put out that sample list for me. Helps a whole lot.

[qwertyu63]

Well, let's try this again. My main deck lost a whole color yesterday...

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2 Frost Breath
3 Unsummon
2 Preordain
2 Negate
4 Cancel
2 Ice Cage
1 Mind Control
2 Jace's Ingenuity
1 Archaeomancer

4 Phantasmal Bear
2 Phantasmal Dragon
2 Lord of the Unreal
2 Aven Fleetwing
4 AEther Adept
2 Delver of Secrets
1 Sphinx of Uthuun

1 Elixir of Immortality
1 Kraken's Eye
1 Jace Beleren
21 Island

EDIT: Also, I have made yet another Magic solitaire game. (Yes I do have too much spare time.) This one is much easier than the last one.

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To play Magic the Gathering solitaire versus the Gate, you will need:
1 coin
1 MtG deck
(optional) Some tokens, to track the Gate's monsters.

The Gate starts with 20 life. You start with 20 life.

The Gate starts with one Striker and one Guardian.

You start by drawing your 7 cards.

You go first.

For each of the Gate's first main phases, flip the coin once. The result decides the Gate's move for the turn. On a heads result they will be going on the attack, while tails means defense.

Attack:
-If they have less than 3 Strikers, they summon a Striker.
--Else, all of their creatures are +1/+0 until their next upkeep.

Defense:
-If they have less than 3 Guardians, they summon a Guardian.
--Else, all of their creatures are +0/+1 until their next upkeep.

A Striker is a 2/1 with Haste. A Guardian is a 1/2 with Reach. Both are colorless.

In all cases, these are cast as spells, and do go to the stack.

For his combat phase, the Gate declares an attack with all of their Strikers. Block them as you see fit.

When you attack, the Gate blocks only with their guardians. They will block your creature with the highest CMC with their biggest (highest Toughness) guardian, your second highest CMC with their second biggest guardian, and so on until they have blocked them all, or are out of guardians.

If one of the Gate's creatures is made useless in some fashion (Ice Cage, Arrest, Defang, Arachnus Web, etc.), that creature is destroyed.

Reduce the Gate to zero life and you have sealed it back up, and the world is safe. If they reduce you to zero life, you have failed.

[Giegue]

Yeah, I've been fooling around with rough builds for MBC and right now am toying around with this....

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Lands:
24x Swamp

Creatures:
2x Bloodgift Demon
3x Desecration Demon
4x Demonic Taskmaster

Plansewalkers:
4x Liliana of the Dark Realms

Enchantments:
2x Curse of Death's Hold
1x Underworld Connections

Sorceries/Instants:
4x Mutilate
2x Barter in Blood
4x Sign in Blood
2x Murder
2x Ultimate Price
4x Tragic Slip
2x Cremate

Sideboard:
2x Pithing Needle
2x Tormord's Crypt
2x Ultimate Price
3x Appetite for Brains
4x Duress
2x Sever the Bloodline

The build is VERY rough draft right now, and I'd certainly like some suggestions. I've been playtesting it a bit online and it's gotten...mixed results. It steamrolls most aggro decks, but has serious issues against walker-heavy decks and zombies. The former is a difficult match because it has absolutely no way to deal with a resolved walker and pre-sideboard lacks any discard effects. Zombies, on the other hand, are difficult simply because of all their recursion. Yes, I can slip away a gravewalker or murder a geralf's messenger, but their just going to be back next turn. To those ends I stuffed the sideboard with tech against zombies and walkers. For the former, I have Tormad's crypt and maindeck cremates. For the latter I have Pithing needle and a fair amount of discard.

After sideboarding, Walkers are less of an issues because I can nab them from the hand before they resolve and mess things up and also have the pithing needle. Does anybody have any tips for me on what I can do to make the zombie match a tad easier for me? Also, I am seriously wanting to maindeck some discard so I don't just give away the first game whenever I face something with a lot of walkers, but am not sure what to remove. Does anybody have any ideas for what I take out of the mainboard to stick some discard in there, or is the deck fine without it?

Also, before you say "That deck isn't budget" I have many of the cards for it already. Even if I owned none of the cards, shopping off my usual site the entire deck, minus the swamps, would cost $63.45 to make, which is under my budget. Thus, if any of you have suggestions feel free to suggest them. This deck could use some improvement.

EDIT: Tested against mono black and green/black zombies, and did better then I thought. I guess I just had bad luck against Jund Zombies.(Got mana screwed a few games against it.). Zombies are still a tough match despite, though. Also, Walkers are still an issue for the deck. Should I cut the crypts from the side for two more pithing needle?

Also, I found Liliana for dirt cheep online, meaning 4x Liliana of the dark realms is now within my budget. Going to have to test four of her and see how it works out. Four would seem like an improvement since she has been useful when I get her out. I never use her ultimate, though. She's mostly a deck thinner + a wincon. Do not underestimate her -3. When combined with one of my demons it can end games quickly. Her +1 is meh, but useful when your mana screwed and, more importantly, as a deck thinner. Every land removed is a greater chance to draw into a board wipe or kill card, so despite not being as awesome as Liliana of the Veil's + ability it's still useful.

[Fable Wright]

Why not Grafdigger's Cage instead of Crypt? Instead of one-shot hate, you land it, and for the rest of the game, Messengers don't undie and Gravecrawlers don't come back. Also good against Burning Vengeance, which actually might become a thing...

I would cut back on Crypts, and possibly replace Cremate mainboard, and add in some Pithing Needles. They stop Lotleth Troll and Planeswalkers, so they're relevant in both matchups. They can also stop Wolf Run and Deathrite Shaman, for additional hate from the board.

[Giegue]

Yeah, thanks for the suggestions. The cage shouldn't be that expensive, and will probably replace the crypts all together. Anyway, if I cut cremate, what should I mainboard in it's place? Pithing needle or Grafdigger's cage? I would suppose the pithing needle would be better since it's relevant in more matches then the cage would be, which means the cage would be better for the sideboard then the mainboard. Also, how many cages should I side? Would removing two crypts for two cages be enough? Or should I ditch one appetite for brains for a third cage? Also, is Pithing needle worth running four of, two mainboard and two sideboard? Or is 2-3 in the sideboard enough?

Also, 4x Liliana of the Dark Realms is testing quite well. I see her a lot more, which is quite helpful. Her -3 is great both as removal, but also as a finisher. In testing I was able to do some seirous damage with her -3 to the point where a lowly demonic taskmaster was able to fly in for 12 damage off a single attack.The removal use of her -3 is, of course, what sees the most play, and I'm glad to have it around more often. Her +1 is meh, but helpful enough since it is a form of deck thinning and every swamp she removes from my deck increases the chances I'll draw that board wipe or removal spell I need sooner.

Her ultimate will probably never see use in the build, but I don't really care because her -3 is good enough and pretty much the best reason to run her here. She doesn't stay around long, especially against decks with burn, so having four means I care less if she dies and can freely use her as sorcery speed removal(or pump) and worry less that I sacrificed her since I'll be drawing her again eventually.

If I could I'd run 2x Liliana of the Dark Realms, 2x Lilana of the Veil instead, but Liliana of the Veil is just too rich for my blood, even on my special site, that sells cards for very cheap.(which is the only reason I can afford 4x Liliana of the Dark Realms in the first place. If I had to buy her off some other site 4 would probably be a tad pricy for me.)

[Ninjaman]

If you're going to make a token focused deck, B/G/W can be good, especially if you just put in a splash of black for Lingering Soul's flashback cost.

And vault of the archangel. Never forget that one.

[Squark]

So, I finally decided to follow through on a plan I've had for a while and thrown all my favorite mono-black creatures from standard decks (and one from my legacy deck) past into a deck. Here's the current deck.

[spoiler]Land: 23 Swamps

Creatures 4x Nantuko Shade
4x Gatekeeper of Malakir
3x Bloodghast
4x Hypnotic Specter
4x Vampire Nighthawk
3x Royal Assassin
3x Phyrexian Obliterator
2x Tomb Stalker

Other Spells:
4x Go for the Throat
2x Phryexian Arena
4x Lashwrithe[/swamp]

However, since my college group pretty much exclusively plays multiplayer, I thought I'd tweek the deck to be more multi-player focused. Anyone have any suggestions?


@Giegue: Neither Pithing Needle nor Grafdigger's Cage should be in the mainboard, frankly. Also, consider Sever the Bloodline; At last check, it wasn't that expensive, and it's very effective against token decks and zombies.

[Ninjaman]

How about some sweepers?
Mutilate, black sun's zenith and barter in blood are all pretty cheap.
But you could also go with more expensive options like damnation.
Also killing wave could be fun.

[Squark]

Sweepers are certainly a possiblity; I've got three black sun zeniths sitting around lamenting the fact they're out of type.

Syphon mind is another card I've considered- The main concern is it's less effective late in the game than Phyrexian arena, since only 1-2 opponents may be left, and they may not have cards.

[Giegue]

Question. Do you think Cremate is worth having in the mainboard? I ask because I am not sure if I would better be served by more removal or a big closer like Nefarox, Overlord of Grixis then I would Cremate. I was thinking about ditching the two cremates for another murder and another ultimate price or 2 Nefaraox, Overlord of Grixis. If I go the more removal route I would add Victim of Night to the sideboard to replace Ultimate Price in games where it is not reverent. Thoughts on these ideas?

Also, as of now, the sideboard has been edited to look like this..

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2x Sever the Bloodline
2x Appitite for Brains
4x Duress
2x Victim of Night
2x Pithing Needle
3x Grafdigger's Cage

[Meta]

So, I finally decided to follow through on a plan I've had for a while and thrown all my favorite mono-black creatures from standard decks (and one from my legacy deck) past into a deck. Here's the current deck.

[spoiler]Land: 23 Swamps

Creatures 4x Nantuko Shade
4x Gatekeeper of Malakir
3x Bloodghast
4x Hypnotic Specter
4x Vampire Nighthawk
3x Royal Assassin
3x Phyrexian Obliterator
2x Tomb Stalker

Other Spells:
4x Go for the Throat
2x Phryexian Arena
4x Lashwrithe[/swamp]

However, since my college group pretty much exclusively plays multiplayer, I thought I'd tweek the deck to be more multi-player focused. Anyone have any suggestions?


@Giegue: Neither Pithing Needle nor Grafdigger's Cage should be in the mainboard, frankly. Also, consider Sever the Bloodline; At last check, it wasn't that expensive, and it's very effective against token decks and zombies.

Exsanguinate might be the best multiplayer spell. Even better if you have cabal coffers and an urborg, tomb of yawgmoth.

[Squark]

EH, Exsanguinate really only works with combo. Without it, I simply don't have the mana to fuel it. And I'd prefer to avoid spending $40-60 dollars on a couple of Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmawths and 2 more Cabal coffers.


Giegue: Honestly, I feel victim of the night is relevant in more matches than Ultimate price is. And I don't feel cremate is worth running in the mainboard or sideboard, honestly. It just saps mana most of the time. It's not like a charm, which has a use pretty much every time you draw it.

[Androgeus]

[/swamp]

I was far too amused by this mistake

[Lord Seth]

Exsanguinate might be the best multiplayer spell. Even better if you have cabal coffers and an urborg, tomb of yawgmoth.

No, I'd say both Congregate and Rhystic Study outdo it (Rhystic Study is insane in multiplayer). Or are we specifically limiting ourselves to Black?

[Giegue]

I've been playtesting some more and as of now, my current build looks like this...

Spoiler

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Creatures:
2x Nefarox, Overlord of Grixis
2x Bloodgift Demon
2x Desecration Demon
4x Vampire Nighthawk

Planeswalkers:
4x Liliana of the Dark Realms

Enchantments:
2x Curse of Death's Hold

Sorceries/Instants:
4x Mutilate
2x Barter in Blood
4x Sign in Blood
3x Murder
3x Victim of Night
4x Tragic Slip

Lands:
24x Swamp

Sideboard:
2x Appetite for Brains
4x Duress
2x Sever the Bloodline
2x Ultimate Price
2x Pithing Needle
3x Grafdigger's Cage

Any other suggestions or comments?

[Mindfreak]

So today I got my Magic Holiday Gift Box...and now I'm sorting all of my cards.
It's a daunting task.
Anyways, out of the four packs I got mostly jank, until my fourth pack in which I got a Foil Utrava Hellkite and a Hallowed Fountain. I was a happy pickle.

Anyways, if anyone wants to see the alternate art-foil Dreg Mangler, I could scan it and post here ^^

[Lea Plath]

So...Modern is soon to be a FNM format.

I've been looking at Modern decks all night and I'm gonna netdeck off one of the decks from PT Ravnica. A zombie dredgish deck called Zombiestation. It has a fair bit of overlap with my current decks (legacy it has the fetches, standard, gravecrawler, deathrite shaman, abrupt decay, lands etc) so it makes sense and it is the sort of deck I love to play.

The list is currently a direct copy as seen below. But, I'm gonna tweak it as my local meta develops. If I see a lot of zombie decks, I'll play Dark Blast over Abrupt Decay. If I see Goyfs and jund stuff being played. I'll see about adding in more abrupts etc.

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2x Abrupt Decay
4x Blackcleave Cliffs
3x Blasting Station
1x Blood Crypt [RTR]
4x Bloodghast
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Diregraf Ghoul
3x Dregscape Zombie
4x Faithless Looting
1x Forest
4x Gravecrawler
4x Lotleth Troll
4x Marsh Flats
3x Overgrown Tomb [RTR]
4x Stinkweed Imp
3x Swamp
4x Vengevine
4x Verdant Catacombs

[Fable Wright]

Huh. That deck has made me change my mind about trading off my old Zombie cards after I quit Standard. The only thing I need to build it are fetches, shocks, and a few cheap cards, all of which I want anyways.

[Giegue]

Modern is going FNM? Really? That's interesting news for sure. Do any of you know if mono black infect is viable in modern? I don't care if it's aggro, midrange or control(My old MBI deck started out as a pure control deck and eventually shifted to a midrange build as time went on.), I just have always loved mono B Infect and have all the cards for it. I know there is a mono U infect deck in modern, but I prefer mono black if it can at all be done. So, does anybody know of mono black infect could be viable for modern and, if so, do you know where I can find a sample list?

[Fable Wright]

Modern is going FNM? Really? That's interesting news for sure. Do any of you know if mono black infect is viable in modern? I don't care if it's aggro, midrange or control(My old MBI deck started out as a pure control deck and eventually shifted to a midrange build as time went on.), I just have always loved mono B Infect and have all the cards for it. I know there is a mono U infect deck in modern, but I prefer mono black if it can at all be done. So, does anybody know of mono black infect could be viable for modern and, if so, do you know where I can find a sample list?

Mono black? I don't think so. You almost definitely want Green in the mix; it adds in Glistener Elf and a whole ton more pump spells than mono-B could get, and infect really does need to be fast in the format.

[Giegue]

Would mono green work better, then? Also, is Living End combo still a deck? I ask because excluding it's manabase, that deck is fairly budget last time I checked...Right now I'm looking at playing one of the following and I'd like to know which would be best in modern...

- Infect(Either mono black or mono green. Don't want to go two colors B/C of manabase expense...there are no cheap G/B dual lands.)

- Living End combo(No explanation for this one, really)

- Dragonstorm Combo(Most likely the mono red version, to keep the cost of the manabase down. U/R could be doable too, though I'd have to slightly budgetize the manabase by using Sulfur Falls and painlands rather then shocks and such..)

- W/B Control(Already have 4x godless shrines and 4x W/B painland. I have a marsh flats or two laying around as well, so I could actually have the money manabase for this deck for far less then the others presented here. I also already have multiple copies of damnation an wrath of god...so yeah)

Mono Black Control(Again, little need for explanation)


Unlike standard, I am more willing to invest for modern, since my deck will never rotate. This also means that I am willing to shell out for expensive lands BUT not all at once. I'd basically have to collect the moneymana over a long period of time. However, unlike standard, my deck will never rotate, which means I can actually collect money lands over a long peiord of time and not worry that by the time I get all by duals that my deck will have rotated out. So, out of those four archtypes, which do you think would be best for modern?

[Penguinizer]

Living end is a thing I suppose. It's just not a very good thing. There's too much consistent grave hate that shuts it down.