General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

[Yuki Akuma]

Vitae isn't a powerstat, it's an energy point type. Ghouls have Vitae but they don't have Blood Potency.

The Purified is a major template, but not because they use Essence (ghosts do that, and they're not a major template). It's because they have a powerstat, called Chi.

[Mr.Bookworm]

I just found my old PDF of Infinite Macabre and holy crap the science in this book is hilariously bad. I somehow managed to completely miss this on my first read-through of the thing.

The way the universe probably works in your space
opera game is just like you’ve seen in a number of films
or video games: the universe features a number of charted
galaxies separated by parsecs (one parsec = 3.3 light years).
These galaxies are either star systems (a galaxy comprising
only stars orbiting one another) or planetary systems
(a galaxy where planets orbit one or several stars).

(which, if you
care, means that a ship with Speed five moves at about
twenty-five miles per turn or eight miles per second, and
the speed of light is about fifty miles per second).

The character hisses and vomits a jet of Vitae from
her mouth, which offers her propulsion in the dark void
of space at Speed 1. The vampire can do this in normal
gravity and at normal oxygen levels as well

Okay, that last one is kind of excusable, but the mental image of a vampire spitting blood out of his mouth and it magically accelerating him to almost 2 miles a second is pretty bizarre.

[The Glyphstone]

They actually wrote a supplement for Vampires: IN SPAAAAAAACEE!?

[Mr.Bookworm]

They actually wrote a supplement for Vampires: IN SPAAAAAAACEE!?

They totally did. There's also one for CYBERVAMPIRES. They're little mini-supplements for Mirrors.

Anyway, they're actually really cool and evocative, I was just noticing the facepalm-worthy errors in the text. Along with some other weird stuff, like the one section that apparently assumes that Mage still runs on consensual reality.

[Sith_Happens]

Along with some other weird stuff, like the one section that apparently assumes that Mage still runs on consensual reality.

That actually would explain the rest of it, though.

[Morty]

Looks like we're getting the Idigam Chronicles and Fallen World Chronicles, the Werewolf and Mage equivalents of Blood & Smoke: the Strix Chronicles, in 2014. Also a book with different historical settings for each gameline - Elizabethan Vampire, Alexandrian Mage and Howard Carter Mummy have been mentioned.

[SiuiS]

I just found my old PDF of Infinite Macabre and holy crap the science in this book is hilariously bad. I somehow managed to completely miss this on my first read-through of the thing.

Okay, that last one is kind of excusable, but the mental image of a vampire spitting blood out of his mouth and it magically accelerating him to almost 2 miles a second is pretty bizarre.

Is that... Did they mean Solar System? 0_o

Looks like we're getting the Idigam Chronicles and Fallen World Chronicles, the Werewolf and Mage equivalents of Blood & Smoke: the Strix Chronicles, in 2014. Also a book with different historical settings for each gameline - Elizabethan Vampire, Alexandrian Mage and Howard Carter Mummy have been mentioned.

Bangerang

[Mr.Bookworm]

Has anyone done any actual play of the God-Machine Chronicle rules yet? I haven't had a chance to do so myself and I'd be interested to hear how it went.

That actually would explain the rest of it, though.

The Idiocracy theory does have it's merits.

Looks like we're getting the Idigam Chronicles and Fallen World Chronicles, the Werewolf and Mage equivalents of Blood & Smoke: the Strix Chronicles, in 2014. Also a book with different historical settings for each gameline - Elizabethan Vampire, Alexandrian Mage and Howard Carter Mummy have been mentioned.

The full release schedule.

I would take that with a barrel of salt, given how well they've stuck to release dates in the past.

Is that... Did they mean Solar System? 0_o

No, actually. The definitions given for planetary systems and star systems are correct. The Solar system specifically refers to the one we're standing in right now.

The weird thing is the use of the word galaxy. A galaxy is millions/billions/trillions of stars, their orbiting bodies, and a bunch of other stuff orbiting a black hole, not the individual systems themselves.

Although the most egregious thing has to be the c=50 miles/s thing, because that takes about two seconds of Googling to find out is wrong.

[MugaSofer]

Has anyone done any actual play of the God-Machine Chronicle rules yet? I haven't had a chance to do so myself and I'd be interested to hear how it went.

Well, there's a pbp going, but you know how slow those are ... I haven't seen any APs posted, although I havent really been on the lookout beyond passing through the front pages of WW forums occasionally.

EDIT:Well, here's some playtesting stuff:

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?...aytest-The-Key

http://forums.white-wolf.com/default...=posts&t=66457

No, actually. The definitions given for planetary systems and star systems are correct. The Solar system specifically refers to the one we're standing in right now.

The weird thing is the use of the word galaxy. A galaxy is millions/billions/trillions of stars, their orbiting bodies, and a bunch of other stuff orbiting a black hole, not the individual systems themselves.

Although the most egregious thing has to be the c=50 miles/s thing, because that takes about two seconds of Googling to find out is wrong.

... huh.

[Mewtarthio]

Although the most egregious thing has to be the c=50 miles/s thing, because that takes about two seconds of Googling to find out is wrong.

Do not believe what the scientists tell you. The speed of light we know is a lie, a falsehood sold to us by wicked old men who would make the world a dull gray prison and protect us from the dangers inherent to freedom.

[SiuiS]

Okie doke, not goin to double post. But some questions!

I'm making a changeling for a GMc game;




She's a cannibal! :9
So, how would the Gristlegrinder work using the new combat rules, especially for grappling? Rather than +2L, would you convert the bashing damage from grappling effects to lethal and add two automatic successes?

Would the location and prominence of the mouths (one in each palm as well!) along with the Lethal Mien merit be worth not needing to grapple to engage in Biting at +2L?

Would it be worth adding another Kith? If so, what would be more interesting; Oni (to heal from eating others), pamarindo (to make it easier to finish the body off) or corpsegrinder for the inevitable quickening pace of consumption (or anything else you can suggest?)

Character is a mishmash and mostly inspired by the picture; setting is just around the French Revolution, will likely be a prostitute whose clientele goes missing on occasion.

Has anyone done any actual play of the God-Machine Chronicle rules yet? I haven't had a chance to do so myself and I'd be interested to hear how it went.

We have one, but it's slow, and half the players bailed because REASONS. There is a Mage game that uses the GMC rules from this point on, currently in it's second thread entitled Skyscraper Graveyard. There is an upcoming changeling game set in old france. There is a mage game angled toward creeping horror that may or may not get off the ground.

No, actually. The definitions given for planetary systems and star systems are correct. The Solar system specifically refers to the one we're standing in right now.

The weird thing is the use of the word galaxy. A galaxy is millions/billions/trillions of stars, their orbiting bodies, and a bunch of other stuff orbiting a black hole, not the individual systems themselves.

Although the most egregious thing has to be the c=50 miles/s thing, because that takes about two seconds of Googling to find out is wrong.

The Galaxy is a [definition of star system] bit was what I was talking about. As has come up in this and other threads though, solar system isn't incorrect so long as any of the stars can be considered a sun. Quibbling star system and solar system is silly.

I type this line for the third time. There's a vague sense of deja vu, while I ponder if it is this thread, or the D&D next thread, or if it has bled across both. The same customer in the same vest as before comes in; Clearly I see the memory of looking up from the computer, across the doorway obliquely at the motorcyclist counting his money superimposed over the actual scene of looking up from the computer, across the doorway obliquely at the motorcyclist counting his money.

I would be rather freaked out if I couldn't so easily dismiss such things as being a magical unicorn.

Do not believe what the scientists tell you. The speed of light we know is a lie, a falsehood sold to us by wicked old men who would make the world a dull gray prison and protect us from the dangers inherent to freedom.

Neat!

[MugaSofer]

So, how would the Gristlegrinder work using the new combat rules, especially for grappling? Rather than +2L, would you convert the bashing damage from grappling effects to lethal and add two automatic successes?

I would say it counts as a 1L weapon; pre-GMC bonus -1, but now it's successes. That seems to be the standard for converting stuff, because a successful hit will always have at least one Success.

Would it be worth adding another Kith? If so, what would be more interesting; Oni (to heal from eating others), pamarindo (to make it easier to finish the body off) or corpsegrinder for the inevitable quickening pace of consumption (or anything else you can suggest?)

... I thought that was an endgame thing? If you can do that at character creation, holy cow, Changeling just got a whole lot cooler.

[SiuiS]

I would say it counts as a 1L weapon; pre-GMC bonus -1, but now it's successes. That seems to be the standard for converting stuff, because a successful hit will always have at least one Success.

... Hmm. It is balanced but unsatisfying. I guess I had my centralized hydraulic oxygenating five-loved pumpin structureHeart set on 2L.
It's so pretty, that combination look at it.

+2L.


Marvelous.

... I thought that was an endgame thing? If you can do that at character creation, holy cow, Changeling just got a whole lot cooler.

Having a second kith is a merit for 2 dots (same seeming) or 3 dots (different seeming), and there is also an additional rule to allow you to gain more kiths as you increase your Wyrd score which is a separate parallel analogue.

We've had an archangel whose body is an intricate suit o heavenly armor (stone bones/wingswift) and a couple other neat ideas. I seem obsessed with Dual Kith.

[One Tin Soldier]

Okay, that last one is kind of excusable, but the mental image of a vampire spitting blood out of his mouth and it magically accelerating him to almost 2 miles a second is pretty bizarre.

Having actually played a short Infinite Macabre game (admittedly without vampires), our group interpreted that as having a personal Speed of 1. As in, 1 yard per turn. So basically, just enough to keep yourself from drifting into the void if your cable snaps.

Has anyone done any actual play of the God-Machine Chronicle rules yet? I haven't had a chance to do so myself and I'd be interested to hear how it went.

My group has mostly converted our games to the GMC rules. So far the only notable difference is the change in some merit costs, access to new/newly accessible merits, and the combat system. We like this new stuff pretty much across the board. I know my Genius character benefitting from it, build/concept wise. With the new changes to how Defense works, I was able to focus less on Dex with her, and give her the 4 Strength that I envisioned her with.

We didn't, however, include the new XP rules. This is mainly because we have a large LARP-ish group, usually with 6 or more players each session. Because of this size, we give out flat XP on a monthly basis. Running the new XP rules as written would be way too much paperwork, and would require that characters have relatively equal "spotlight time" each session to be balanced, which just isn't practical.

Granted, it is also a factor that we're just used to the old XP system, and don't want to change it. After all, it would be a pain to have to actually look up the costs each time we wanted to buy something.

[MugaSofer]

Having a second kith is a merit for 2 dots (same seeming) or 3 dots (different seeming), and there is also an additional rule to allow you to gain more kiths as you increase your Wyrd score which is a separate parallel analogue.

We've had an archangel whose body is an intricate suit o heavenly armor (stone bones/wingswift) and a couple other neat ideas. I seem obsessed with Dual Kith.

Man, that's awesome. Exponentially increases the possibilities.

My group has mostly converted our games to the GMC rules. So far the only notable difference is the change in some merit costs, access to new/newly accessible merits, and the combat system. We like this new stuff pretty much across the board. I know my Genius character benefitting from it, build/concept wise. With the new changes to how Defense works, I was able to focus less on Dex with her, and give her the 4 Strength that I envisioned her with.

Oooh, you're playing a Genius in a GMC game?

[Yuki Akuma]

So I am running a very strange crossover right now. I'd like some feedback.

Should the Industrial Key (Geist: the Sin-Eaters) affect Wonders (Genius: the Transgression)?

[Selrahc]

No. Or at least, not without harsh harsh dice penalties. Any new and complex device suffers a 3(?) dice penalty already. Genius devices are beyond new. They are the very essence of new and complex. So either they are just immune, or they give at least a 5 dice penalty to rolls to control.

[Turalisj]

They aren't just new, they are impossiblities made physical.

[Yuki Akuma]

No. Or at least, not without harsh harsh dice penalties. Any new and complex device suffers a 3(?) dice penalty already. Genius devices are beyond new. They are the very essence of new and complex. So either they are just immune, or they give at least a 5 dice penalty to rolls to control.

Remember that the Industrial Rage (when used to damage machines) doesn't suffer from Anachrotech.

Also, what about Wonders made by Geniuses fifty years ago? Geniuses have been around for a while.

I'm thinking maybe a -2 penalty on top of Anachrotech penalties, and no Anachrotech bonuses. Thoughts?

[Turalisj]

Again, Wonders aren't really machines. They are the distilled essence of impossibility turned into a physical object

That, and I'm against any splat being able to easily screw with the schtick of another splat. It's something that bugs me in all of White Wolf's stuff.

[The Glyphstone]

I'd also say no, Industrial Key has no effect on Wonders, for similarly argued reasons. Wonders are not machines, they just look like machines (sometimes). Remember that Wonders can also be biological, not simply mechanical, and two different Genii with the exact same Axioms could each produce a Wonder that had the same mechanical effects, except one was biological in nature and one was technological, with both equally impossible by the laws of reality. There's no good reason for Genius B to be penalized or punished if he goes mano-a-mano with a Sin Eater just because his particular paradigm, to borrow an OldMage term, uses machinery and technology instead of biology.

[Grytorm]

Hi, I'm one of a few people who has posted interest to be a player in this Changeling the Lost game and we still need a Storyteller. So far six people have posted interest pending a ST and I thought it would be a good idea to see if anybody here wanted to run a game. Somebody in the other thread recommended PMing people in the DM registry and this seems to be a reasonable measure. So I hope somebody volunteers to run the game.

[Yuki Akuma]

I'd also say no, Industrial Key has no effect on Wonders, for similarly argued reasons. Wonders are not machines, they just look like machines (sometimes). Remember that Wonders can also be biological, not simply mechanical, and two different Genii with the exact same Axioms could each produce a Wonder that had the same mechanical effects, except one was biological in nature and one was technological, with both equally impossible by the laws of reality. There's no good reason for Genius B to be penalized or punished if he goes mano-a-mano with a Sin Eater just because his particular paradigm, to borrow an OldMage term, uses machinery and technology instead of biology.

Mmh. Okay, you've convinced me.

I guess they'll just have to punch the mad scientists the good old-fashioned way. Or target their gadgets that aren't Wonders.

[SiuiS]

A question on the godmachine chronicles rules update.

The rules say that you can add a weapon's bonus (if it's a grappling weapon) to your grapple roll... But weapons no longer have bonuses. They have flat damage.

Does this mean that if a length of chain is a 2L weapon, you add two dice to the grapple? That would make sense since you cannot use the chain to inflict automatic damage quite so easily... But what about like, hooks? Or any other weapon, even a barbed rope? Do you add the damage to the roll, and the damage?

[Silus]

Question regarding general character creation and stats:

So I've got this character I'm building for an upcoming game (A NWoD Hunter game). He's basically a crotchety old ex-military man. Anyway, after statting him up and sorting stuff out, I found he only has three points in Willpower.

Now, as a run-of-the-mill human, what is Willpower used for, and should I look at reordering his attributes to get a bit more Willpower?

Not sure if it's of any help, but I took the Fortitude Virtue and the Wrath Vice.

[The Glyphstone]

Willpower is really, really valuable for Hunters. In addition to the normal boosting of rolls, you can do a whole bunch of stuff by Risking willpower on rolls, like 8-agains or extra dice above and beyond the normal +3. It's also a derivative number from your resistance stats that a lot of gribbly monsters will be targeting with supernatural woogie, and having those high is good.

[Yuki Akuma]

As a run-of-the-mill mortal, Willpower is used to add dice to rolls and that's about it.

Of course, Hunters aren't run-of-the-mill mortals. They can also spend Willpower to increase their Stamina, Resolve, Composure or Defense to resist being harmed in some way, to activate Tactics, they can risk Willpower for a variety of special effects, and it's also often used to activate Endowments.

Basically Hunters like having high Willpower and you might want to improve it.

[Morty]

Correction: normal mortals can also use Willpower to increase their passive defences. Everything else the people above me said is correct.

[SiuiS]

Question regarding general character creation and stats:

So I've got this character I'm building for an upcoming game (A NWoD Hunter game). He's basically a crotchety old ex-military man. Anyway, after statting him up and sorting stuff out, I found he only has three points in Willpower.

Now, as a run-of-the-mill human, what is Willpower used for, and should I look at reordering his attributes to get a bit more Willpower?

Not sure if it's of any help, but I took the Fortitude Virtue and the Wrath Vice.

straight nWoD? You may want to increase it, yes. If you can get the GMC version of willpower in, it's not a problem because you can regain the stuff much quicker.


I am jealous of your avatar like woah.

[MugaSofer]

I'd also say no, Industrial Key has no effect on Wonders, for similarly argued reasons. Wonders are not machines, they just look like machines (sometimes). Remember that Wonders can also be biological, not simply mechanical, and two different Genii with the exact same Axioms could each produce a Wonder that had the same mechanical effects, except one was biological in nature and one was technological, with both equally impossible by the laws of reality. There's no good reason for Genius B to be penalized or punished if he goes mano-a-mano with a Sin Eater just because his particular paradigm, to borrow an OldMage term, uses machinery and technology instead of biology.

... you know, that would actually incline me to allow it (at a penalty.) There are mechanical differences between building biological and mechanical wonders - largely in the skills used to build it, and, more relevantly, also in how certain wonders affect it as (for example, it's harder to hit robots with telepathy and mind control, and the sample "agonizer" for Katastrofi is designed to target biological matter only.)

Honestly, I would have to see how the power is worded and what the intention seems to be, but I would probably allow it, depending on what Skills the wonder was built with.

(All Inspired already have innate powers that affect any technology, from sharpened stick to wonder, so there's that anyway.)

A question on the godmachine chronicles rules update.

The rules say that you can add a weapon's bonus (if it's a grappling weapon) to your grapple roll... But weapons no longer have bonuses. They have flat damage.

Does this mean that if a length of chain is a 2L weapon, you add two dice to the grapple? That would make sense since you cannot use the chain to inflict automatic damage quite so easily... But what about like, hooks? Or any other weapon, even a barbed rope? Do you add the damage to the roll, and the damage?

I think I saw an errata for that on WW forums, saying it just changes the successes to Lethal damage. Might be thinking of something else though.